The Problem With Christianity And Now Islam

[Sohail Shuja]

Religion is nothing more than a mental illness that restricts your thinking and prohibits you from asking logical questions???

Having said that, yes, if a mentally ill person goes either for religion or atheism, he makes both of them look like an ailment. People suffer from religion as much as irreligious conundrums. The actual ailment they have is a mental condition ....

Like, being an atheist is one thing -- which means consumption of ideas for one's own self. However, trying to prove that every other thing besides what you believe in, is necessarily wrong ... this is another ball game. It manifests an urge to pester others ... sort of an OCD.

I don't know how someone can justify the killing of a person who leaves Islam but its
okay to leave any other religion and become Muslim..

I also do not understand how the people who claim themselves to be literate and enlightened enough to refute religion, come up with such half-witted jests?

Can you give the exact reference of your claim, in order for every one of us to understand and deliberate accordingly?
If you have misread or misinterpreted something, then is it the fault of the religion? or if you have only followed some nincompoops who call them religious leaders, for the sake of believing this, then I guess your IQ is also quite equivalent to the religious fanatics you are trying to mock here. It is just that you lie on the other side .... with the same disease/ailment/malady.

If you want to judge any man, there are two things you can judge, Wealth and woman
-The Prophet had 14 wives, and more than 4 at once e for a number of years, while in the holy book, it only permitted 4 wives.

What are the exact revelations of the book in this case? have you read them?

One of his "wives" was his "daughter-in-law",. After something happened and a
"farishta" came to tell him,its okay to marry her after she gets divorced.. (Yeah right, no one else could see this farishta so we have to take his words).

Daughter in law from his own son in blood? are you sure?

Keeping in mind the death of a child due to rape in Pakistan, how would you explain marriage to a 9-year-old child, when her body is not ready for marriage or giving birth. There is no way, a 9yo is mentally ready for marriage. Can you see the future of a child born to 10 a child???

Clearly, these things would not satisfy any logical thinking.

This is called "selective perception" -- you will only take the references which suit your argument, whereas there are other references in the Islamic history as well, which you will clearly not quote.

Any unbiased and logical person will conclude in the light of conflicting conflicting accounts that the age of Hazrat Ayesha (RA) at the time of her marriage cannot be confirmed, affirmatively.

Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Sorry forgot to address this point in my previous reply, but you might have guessed it by now what it is going to be.

کیوں بے طنزانیہ کے طبلچی، ابھی تک بتلایا نہیں کہ کونسے قرآن کی پیروی کرتے ہو؟ ثناء والی جلد کی یا برمنگھم والے کی؟​

 

[Sohail Shuja]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1723779385017221499

ابے بے دُم کی بٹیر، بِنا چونچ کے تیتر، تجھے یہی سب ملتا ہے کیا؟
اس مولوی کو تیرے سوا کتنے لوگ جانتے اور مانتے ہیں؟
ان لوگوں کی بات کرو جن کو اکثریت مانتی اور جانتی ہے۔

تم باقی سب کو چھوڑو، یہ بتاوٗ کہ کیا ہارون یحیٰ کی بھی کوئی کتاب نظر سے گزری ہے؟
اب کسی طویلے سے خروج شدہ خر کی طرح خرخرانے مت لگنا
اگر سائنس پر کیئے گئے کام کی بات کرنی ہے، تو اس کے لیئے جو اکابرین ہیں، انکی بات کرو۔
یہ جھرلو دکھا کر اپنی سوچ کی پستی ہی ظاہر کرتے ہو، کیونکہ تمھارا علم اتنا ہے نہیں کہ اکابرین میں سے کسی سے سائنس یا اس سے متعلق کسی موضوع پر بات کرسکو۔ بس یہ دو ٹکے کی فیسبک ویڈیو دیکھ کر اپنے جھنجھنے کو ہلانے کی ہی اوقات ہے تمھاری​

 

[Citizen X]

And the difference is...?

Look it up

 

[Citizen X]

کیوں بے طنزانیہ کے طبلچی، ابھی تک بتلایا نہیں کہ کونسے قرآن کی پیروی کرتے ہو؟ ثناء والی جلد کی یا برمنگھم والے کی؟​

Abhay oh anday jahil 2 jamatan pard lenda teh aaj eh tera khoti aala haan na hounda. Both of them don't consist of more than a few pages, they are not complete copies

And more importantly that is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand here. If that subject interests you so much you can start another thread about it and we can discuss it there, because I won't entertaining any more posts that derail this thread of its original subject matter. Seen many blind followers like you whose next step is then to start arguing that both the Quran and hadith have reached us in the same manner so how can you accept the hadith and not the Quran. LAME! Been there done that ad nauseum , if you have anything new ( come up with something new for once at least ), as instructed go start a new thread and that discussion can take place there.

Hun aram eh, chal hun daffa ho ha te ziyada buk buk na ker.

 

[Citizen X]

Having said that, yes, if a mentally ill person goes either for religion or atheism, he makes both of them look like an ailment. People suffer from religion as much as irreligious conundrums. The actual ailment they have is a mental condition ....

Like, being an atheist is one thing -- which means consumption of ideas for one's own self. However, trying to prove that every other thing besides what you believe in, is necessarily wrong ... this is another ball game. It manifests an urge to pester others ... sort of an OCD.


I also do not understand how the people who claim themselves to be literate and enlightened enough to refute religion, come up with such half-witted jests?

Can you give the exact reference of your claim, in order for every one of us to understand and deliberate accordingly?
If you have misread or misinterpreted something, then is it the fault of the religion? or if you have only followed some nincompoops who call them religious leaders, for the sake of believing this, then I guess your IQ is also quite equivalent to the religious fanatics you are trying to mock here. It is just that you lie on the other side .... with the same disease/ailment/malady.


What are the exact revelations of the book in this case? have you read them?

Daughter in law from his own son in blood? are you sure?

This is called "selective perception" -- you will only take the references which suit your argument, whereas there are other references in the Islamic history as well, which you will clearly not quote.

Any unbiased and logical person will conclude in the light of conflicting conflicting accounts that the age of Hazrat Ayesha (RA) at the time of her marriage cannot be confirmed, affirmatively.

Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.

This is what happens when you try to defend blasphemous insulting lies and fairytales falsely attributed to the Prophet. You end up babbling all over the place ending up with your foot in your mouth. But you blind followers would rather defend lies and fairytales because you would throw the Prophet under the bus first than even dare to question your garbage books.

Starting right from all the way back to one of your most important mullahs, imam shafai who said Hadith has the ultimate authority so that even the Quran has to be interpreted in the light of the hadith and not the other way round! Astaghfirullah what blasphemous nonsense!

 

[Wake up Pak]

ابے بے دُم کی بٹیر، بِنا چونچ کے تیتر، تجھے یہی سب ملتا ہے کیا؟
اس مولوی کو تیرے سوا کتنے لوگ جانتے اور مانتے ہیں؟
ان لوگوں کی بات کرو جن کو اکثریت مانتی اور جانتی ہے۔

تم باقی سب کو چھوڑو، یہ بتاوٗ کہ کیا ہارون یحیٰ کی بھی کوئی کتاب نظر سے گزری ہے؟
اب کسی طویلے سے خروج شدہ خر کی طرح خرخرانے مت لگنا
اگر سائنس پر کیئے گئے کام کی بات کرنی ہے، تو اس کے لیئے جو اکابرین ہیں، انکی بات کرو۔
یہ جھرلو دکھا کر اپنی سوچ کی پستی ہی ظاہر کرتے ہو، کیونکہ تمھارا علم اتنا ہے نہیں کہ اکابرین میں سے کسی سے سائنس یا اس سے متعلق کسی موضوع پر بات کرسکو۔ بس یہ دو ٹکے کی فیسبک ویڈیو دیکھ کر اپنے جھنجھنے کو ہلانے کی ہی اوقات ہے تمھاری​

Abay o doum katay baandar lagta hay abhi tak tayri laal hay jo tujhay last time chittar paray taay.
Chal shahbash nikal lay aur koi dhang ka kaam dhondh Deen Islam tujh jaysay kundh zehn kay bus key baat nahi hay.

 

[Citizen X]

Abay o doum katay baandar

abhi tak tayri laal hay jo tujhay last time chittar paray taay.

When where? How come I missed it!

Honestly I was bit taken aback, shuja saab usually tends to be civil even though his long meandering posts don't make much sense. But then today all of a sudden. Hence I replied the same way

Aab samaj mein aaya! lol

 

[Wake up Pak]

When where? How come I missed it!

Honestly I was bit taken aback, shuja saab usually tends to be civil even though his long meandering posts don't make much sense. But then today all of a sudden. Hence I replied the same way

Aab samaj mein aaya! lol

Shuja used to be one of the civil people on this forum. I do not know what got him to use such language. I posted a moronic mullah's pathetic & funny video on your thread above, and for some odd reason, he got furious & tagged me with weirdest remarks.

 

[Solomon2]

Look it up

The problem with looking it up is that it doesn't tell my your definition of the difference between deen and religion.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The problem with looking it up is that it doesn't tell my your definition of the difference between deen and religion.

Madhab, or religion, is a term used for a set of beliefs and rituals of worship mostly found in man-made books, on the other hand, Deen refers to an entire way of life found in the Book of Allah.

 

[Citizen X]

The problem with looking it up is that it doesn't tell my your definition of the difference between deen and religion.

My definition is what the general definition is, don't expect me to spoon feed you anything.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Having said that, yes, if a mentally ill person goes either for religion or atheism, he makes both of them look like an ailment. People suffer from religion as much as irreligious conundrums. The actual ailment they have is a mental condition ....

Like, being an atheist is one thing -- which means consumption of ideas for one's own self. However, trying to prove that every other thing besides what you believe in, is necessarily wrong ... this is another ball game. It manifests an urge to pester others ... sort of an OCD.


I also do not understand how the people who claim themselves to be literate and enlightened enough to refute religion, come up with such half-witted jests?

Can you give the exact reference of your claim, in order for every one of us to understand and deliberate accordingly?
If you have misread or misinterpreted something, then is it the fault of the religion? or if you have only followed some nincompoops who call them religious leaders, for the sake of believing this, then I guess your IQ is also quite equivalent to the religious fanatics you are trying to mock here. It is just that you lie on the other side .... with the same disease/ailment/malady.


What are the exact revelations of the book in this case? have you read them?

Daughter in law from his own son in blood? are you sure?

This is called "selective perception" -- you will only take the references which suit your argument, whereas there are other references in the Islamic history as well, which you will clearly not quote.

Any unbiased and logical person will conclude in the light of conflicting conflicting accounts that the age of Hazrat Ayesha (RA) at the time of her marriage cannot be confirmed, affirmatively.

Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.

Let's just focus on this, I will come to other points after discussing this

“Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.”

Are you sure about that? Do you have a logical reason why a child loses its ability to become Hafiz-e-Quran after being raped?

as far as I know, sodomy is common in the mosques/Madrasa in Pakistan. The number of hafiz-e-Quran, that have suffered rape while in madras is high, I will be surprised if its not somewhere 90%. I don’t know if there is an option to conduct a poll here, most of us must have heard about, hafiz-e- Quran involved In bacha bazi..

waiting for your reply..

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Let's just focus on this, I will come to other points after discussing this

“Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.”

Are you sure about that? Do you have a logical reason why a child loses its ability to become Hafiz-e-Quran after being raped?

as far as I know, sodomy is common in the mosques/Madrasa in Pakistan. The number of hafiz-e-Quran, that have suffered rape while in madras is high, I will be surprised if its not somewhere 90%. I don’t know if there is an option to conduct a poll here, most of us must have heard about, hafiz-e- Quran involved In bacha bazi..

waiting for your reply..

Most of us have also heard about child pornography and its demand in the west. The volume of consumption would suggest 150% of the population living in the west being pedophiles.

So, it is very easy to blow things out of proportion, just like that.

Although, I understand your motive of this discussion, therefore I am already aware that you will not talk of sense and will try to twist and twirl manifold just to win an argument -- as your intentions are not to bring any betterment in the society/world/anywhere, but to vent your frustrations.

Now ask yourself, if you were raped in your childhood, would you develop a hatred for your molester or become his affectionate disciple?

If you need any evidence, just see Wake up Pak & Citizen X . You will easily conclude why they are the only two on the forum despising Ahadith like that and being vocal to the top of their voices (while they could chose it for themselves not to follow ahadith and let others be at their freewill to follow what they like). They both stand on one leg, logically and will get infuriated when slapped with one double legged logic on their face, just because they still get tormented by the undercurrents of those early years of their lives.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Abhay oh anday jahil 2 jamatan pard lenda teh aaj eh tera khoti aala haan na hounda. Both of them don't consist of more than a few pages, they are not complete copies

ابے خارشی چھچھوندر، کچھ پڑھ کر مجھے جواب دیتا تو بہتر تھا۔
مجھے پڑھنے کا کہہ رہا ہے۔ ابے چغد الوجود، مجھے ایک ریفرنس لادے جہاں لکھا ہو کہ یہ دونوں جلدیں صرف چند صفحات پر مشتمل ہیں۔​

And more importantly that is totally irrelevant to the subject at hand here. If that subject interests you so much you can start another thread about it and we can discuss it there, because I won't entertaining any more posts that derail this thread of its original subject matter. Seen many blind followers like you whose next step is then to start arguing that both the Quran and hadith have reached us in the same manner so how can you accept the hadith and not the Quran. LAME! Been there done that ad nauseum , if you have anything new ( come up with something new for once at least ), as instructed go start a new thread and that discussion can take place there.

Hun aram eh, chal hun daffa ho ha te ziyada buk buk na ker.

واہ ہے بھئی تیری عقل کے پردہ بکارت پر، جو ابھی تک قائم ہے۔
سوال سیدھا سا ہے کہ کہتے ہو کہ احادیثؐ کی کتابوں میں فرق ہے، جبکہ جو فرق قرآن کی دو جلدوں میں ہے جس کی تعمیل تم اپنی تشریحات پر کرنے کے لیئے یہاں پر دم کٹی چھپکلی کی طرح لوٹتے رہتے ہ، وہ فرق تمھیں نظر نہیں آتا؟

دراصل یہ سوال وہی ہے جو تم دوسروں سے کررہے ہو اور یہاں پر ہی یہ سوال بلکل مطلق ہے۔
اب تمھارے سوال اگر تمھارے منہہ پر مارے گئے ہیں تو بانجھ گھوڑی کی طرح نہ ہنہناوٗ، منطق سے بات کرو۔​

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Abay o doum katay baandar lagta hay abhi tak tayri laal hay jo tujhay last time chittar paray taay.
Chal shahbash nikal lay aur koi dhang ka kaam dhondh Deen Islam tujh jaysay kundh zehn kay bus key baat nahi hay.

اوہو، تو تیری اوقات ہے صرف دینِ اسلام سمجھنے کی، اور یہ تیرا طریقِ تبلیغ ہے۔
ابے کسی ڈسکو مولوی کی ریٹائرڈ رکھیل، تو دینِ اسلام چھوڑ، پہلے انسان تو بن۔
بحث چھوڑ، بحث کرنے کا طریقہ سیکھ پہلے
اور سب سے پہلے، اپنے آپ سے یہ پوچھ کہ کیا یہ بحث تو اپنی چھوٹی اناء کی تسکین کے لیئے چاہتا ہے یا کسی کی بہتری کے لیئے؟ کیونکہ بہتری کا راستہ طنز و تفنن سے نہیں نکلتا، مذہب یا دین کے لیئے تو بلکل نہیں۔
اس کے لیئے تفکّر چاہیئے بیٹا، جو تجھ میں ہزار سال تک ناپید رہے گا۔

اور چھترول تو نے یا تیرے ہانڈو باکرے نے کی تھی میری؟ ابے کیا ہذیان بک رہا ہے، یا پنکھے میں الٹا لٹک کر خودکشی کرنے جارہا ہے؟ ابھی تو تجھے ایک ہزار برس چاہیئں صرف یہ سمجھنے کے لیئے کہ میں نے کیا لکھا ہے ۔۔۔۔ چل شاباش اس کام پر جا جو تیری عقل دانی میں آرام سے آتا ہے۔ شہتیروں کو جھپّے مارے گا تو چیختا چلّاتا ہی رہے گا۔ ​

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Most of us have also heard about child pornography and its demand in the west. The volume of consumption would suggest 150% of the population living in the west being pedophiles.

So, it is very easy to blow things out of proportion, just like that.

Although, I understand your motive of this discussion, therefore I am already aware that you will not talk of sense and will try to twist and twirl manifold just to win an argument -- as your intentions are not to bring any betterment in the society/world/anywhere, but to vent your frustrations.

Now ask yourself, if you were raped in your childhood, would you develop a hatred for your molester or become his affectionate disciple?

If you need any evidence, just see Wake up Pak & Citizen X . You will easily conclude why they are the only two on the forum despising Ahadith like that and being vocal to the top of their voices (while they could chose it for themselves not to follow ahadith and let others be at their freewill to follow what they like). They both stand on one leg, logically, but will get infuriated, just because they still get tormented by the undercurrents of those early years of their lives.

My motive?? i asked the simple question to your argument, let me put it again,
your point was
“Secondly, any person, who has been subjected to child rape does not grow up into one of the Hafiza of Quran and an authority over Ahadith.”
i don't see any logic in your argument, so i asked for clarification, based on common experience in Pakistan where there are many incidents in news of hafiz-e-quran involved in rape.
Your reply is the consumption of porn in the West, i can't see how is that relevant.
Rather than giving any solid argument, you are asking for my opinion, (thank god i did not had such a bad childhood), then you are trying to bring others in this forum, to help you,

I think that ends the whole discussion here. It's enough for anyone with a sound mind to draw his own conclusion. I can safely draw the conclusion that your other points are not worthy of any response.
Take care and try to learn more about things before you accept them as facts.
Before we go, let me give you a dose of your own medicine.

"All sorts of bodily diseases are produced by half-used minds."

Hasta la vista.
Based on my experience, i can predict, you will reply with abuse and nothing else.

 

[Citizen X]

ابے خارشی چھچھوندر

I enjoyed this jugat well done, sahih mirasi ka puttar hai, teray saamnay mirasi punay mein haar maan li

مجھے ایک ریفرنس لادے جہاں لکھا ہو کہ یہ دونوں جلدیں صرف چند صفحات پر مشتمل ہیں

Taa hi keya c mirasi ustaad do jamatan pard leniya c !

Mirasi Usatd ek nahi tussi do reference ley lao

The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a single sheet of parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript or muṣḥaf have been written.

Birmingham Quran manuscript - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Birmingham Qur’an Manuscript contains parts of surahs 18-20 of the Islamic holy book, written on parchment in an early form of Arabic script known as Hijazi.

The Birmingham Qur'an

The Birmingham Qur'an manuscript is one of the earliest surviving fragments of the Qur'an and one of only a small number to have been radiocarbon dated. It is part of the Mingana Collection of Middle Eastern Manuscripts.

www.birmingham.ac.uk

The find includes 12,000 Quranic parchment fragments. All of them, except 1500–2000 fragments, were assigned to 926 distinct Quranic manuscripts as of 1997. None is complete and many contain only a few folios apiece

Sanaa manuscript - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hunn aram eh! lol

دراصل یہ سوال وہی ہے جو تم دوسروں سے کررہے ہو اور یہاں پر ہی یہ سوال بلکل مطلق ہے

Just as I predicted, wohi puranay ghissay phittay sawal jis ka 1000 baar jawab diya jaa chuka hai.

Chai koi baat nahi mirasi ustad ek vari phir sher! lol

To keep it short and simple

Quran 15:9
It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it.

Allah gives us his personal guarantee that since he has revealed it and it is he who will also protect it.

No such guarantee exists for your garbage books

 

[Wake up Pak]

اوہو، تو تیری اوقات ہے صرف دینِ اسلام سمجھنے کی، اور یہ تیرا طریقِ تبلیغ ہے۔
ابے کسی ڈسکو مولوی کی ریٹائرڈ رکھیل، تو دینِ اسلام چھوڑ، پہلے انسان تو بن۔
بحث چھوڑ، بحث کرنے کا طریقہ سیکھ پہلے
اور سب سے پہلے، اپنے آپ سے یہ پوچھ کہ کیا یہ بحث تو اپنی چھوٹی اناء کی تسکین کے لیئے چاہتا ہے یا کسی کی بہتری کے لیئے؟ کیونکہ بہتری کا راستہ طنز و تفنن سے نہیں نکلتا، مذہب یا دین کے لیئے تو بلکل نہیں۔
اس کے لیئے تفکّر چاہیئے بیٹا، جو تجھ میں ہزار سال تک ناپید رہے گا۔

اور چھترول تو نے یا تیرے ہانڈو باکرے نے کی تھی میری؟ ابے کیا ہذیان بک رہا ہے، یا پنکھے میں الٹا لٹک کر خودکشی کرنے جارہا ہے؟ ابھی تو تجھے ایک ہزار برس چاہیئں صرف یہ سمجھنے کے لیئے کہ میں نے کیا لکھا ہے ۔۔۔۔ چل شاباش اس کام پر جا جو تیری عقل دانی میں آرام سے آتا ہے۔ شہتیروں کو جھپّے مارے گا تو چیختا چلّاتا ہی رہے گا۔ ​

I usually do not indulge in a useless conversation where the other person has nothing substantial to talk about and just wants to satisfy his inflated ego by making rubbish and below-the-belt remarks.
I hope you find some comfort in your miserable & depressed life.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I enjoyed this jugat well done, sahih mirasi ka puttar hai, teray saamnay mirasi punay mein haar maan li


Taa hi keya c mirasi ustaad do jamatan pard leniya c !

Mirasi Usatd ek nahi tussi do reference ley lao

The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a single sheet of parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript or muṣḥaf have been written.

Birmingham Quran manuscript - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Birmingham Qur’an Manuscript contains parts of surahs 18-20 of the Islamic holy book, written on parchment in an early form of Arabic script known as Hijazi.

The Birmingham Qur'an

The Birmingham Qur'an manuscript is one of the earliest surviving fragments of the Qur'an and one of only a small number to have been radiocarbon dated. It is part of the Mingana Collection of Middle Eastern Manuscripts.

www.birmingham.ac.uk

The find includes 12,000 Quranic parchment fragments. All of them, except 1500–2000 fragments, were assigned to 926 distinct Quranic manuscripts as of 1997. None is complete and many contain only a few folios apiece

Sanaa manuscript - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hunn aram eh! lol

Just as I predicted, wohi puranay ghissay phittay sawal jis ka 1000 baar jawab diya jaa chuka hai.

Chai koi baat nahi mirasi ustad ek vari phir sher! lol

To keep it short and simple

Quran 15:9
It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it.

Allah gives us his personal guarantee that since he has revealed it and it is he who will also protect it.

No such guarantee exists for your garbage books