What is shirk (شرک کیا ہے) ??

[Mughal1]

Dear pakistani, there is nothing wrong with this hadith, is there? The prophet is asking peoole to remain constant as regard islam ie not not go back to your old ways. People used to be polytheists and some did go back to poytheism after accepting islam. Many even today become muslims eg from hindus and then go back to hinduism because they may not have studied islam properly. So there is nothing to contradict what is being discussed. This does not mean that muslims are mushrik as I assume you meant from this hadith.

By beliefs one can never be two thing sat the same time. Always remember opposing beliefs are impossible for the same person at the same time. So while one is a muslims, one cannot be be a kafir or polytheists. Give it a bit of thought and you may realise where you are having difficulty in understanding the difference.

regards and all the best.

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[Straight]

guys we must understand this the wahabis grand father Ibn Taymiyyah in his book on tauheed but kuffar fatwa on Abullah ibn umar(ra) (Hazrat umar son (ra) and on Hazrat Aisha (ra) mother of the believers and on Hazrat Ali (ra). These are the people who are Guaranteed paradise in surah fateh and surah towbah. So what do we expect from these people also Abdul wahab Nadji said that islam had ceased to exist for 600 years and he had revived it. So that means the Sahaba who give us islam did not know how to practice it when they were taught by the Prophey (saw). If it didnt make you cry it would make you laugh I would rather be on the side of the sahaba and the mother of the believers on the day of judgement.

Following the link to Shaykh Al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah's Book "TAWHEED". I could not find what you are accusing him of saying. Could you provide the source of your information?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37092869/Tawheed-A-Great-Principle-Ibn-Taymiyyah

 

[nasir ahmed]

guys we must understand this the wahabis grand father Ibn Taymiyyah in his book on tauheed but kuffar fatwa on Abullah ibn umar(ra) (Hazrat umar son (ra) and on Hazrat Aisha (ra) mother of the believers and on Hazrat Ali (ra). These are the people who are Guaranteed paradise in surah fateh and surah towbah. So what do we expect from these people also Abdul wahab Nadji said that islam had ceased to exist for 600 years and he had revived it. So that means the Sahaba who give us Islam did not know how to practice it when they were taught by the Prophey (saw). If it didnt make you cry it would make you laugh I would rather be on the side of the Sahaba and the mother of the believers on the day of judgement.

 

[nasir ahmed]

Re: A renowned scholar provoking people to attack Milaad events.

first thing first Imam Jalaluddin al-Suyuti (radi Allahu anhu) the sub-continent hadith master wrote a treatise on the greatness on the celebration of milad it makes me sick when a nobody scholar says it is wrong we need to look at our past scholars who brought islam to us . Also wahabbis father ibn taymiyyah wrote milad was permissible.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: A renowned scholar provoking people to attack Milaad events.

[FONT=&quot]Dr. Israr Ahmed is discussing the following Hadeet in Sahih Bukhari. Instead of doing repentance (توبہ) from these types of Biddats ([FONT=&quot]بدعت[/FONT][FONT=&quot]) what is the hoe and cry?

It is narrated on the authority 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: Never a Prophet had been sent before me by Allah towards his nation who had not among his people (his) disciples and companions who followed his ways and obeyed his command. Then there came after them their successors who said whatever they did not practise,and practised whatever they were not commanded to do. He who strove against them with his hand was a believer: he who strove against them with his tongue was a believer, and he who strove against them with his heart was a believer and beyond that there is no faith even to the extent of a mustard seed. Abu Rafi' said: I narrated this hadith to 'Abdullah b. 'Umar; he contradicted me. There happened to come 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud who stayed at Qanat, and 'Abdullah b 'Umar wanted me to accompany him for visiting him (as 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud was ailing), so I went along with him and as we sat (before him) I asked Ibn Mas'ud about this hadith. He narrated it in the same way as I narrated it to Ibn 'Umar. (Sahih Muslim Book #001, Hadith #0081)[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Cheeko]

Re: A renowned scholar provoking people to attack Milaad events.

[FONT=&quot]Dr. Israr Ahmed is discussing the following Hadeet in Sahih Bukhari. Instead of doing repentance (توبہ) from these types of Biddats ([FONT=&quot]بدعت[/FONT][FONT=&quot]) what is the hoe and cry?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It is narrated on the authority 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: Never a Prophet had been sent before me by Allah towards his nation who had not among his people (his) disciples and companions who followed his ways and obeyed his command. Then there came after them their successors who said whatever they did not practise,and practised whatever they were not commanded to do. He who strove against them with his hand was a believer: he who strove against them with his tongue was a believer, and he who strove against them with his heart was a believer and beyond that there is no faith even to the extent of a mustard seed. Abu Rafi' said: I narrated this hadith to 'Abdullah b. 'Umar; he contradicted me. There happened to come 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud who stayed at Qanat, and 'Abdullah b 'Umar wanted me to accompany him for visiting him (as 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud was ailing), so I went along with him and as we sat (before him) I asked Ibn Mas'ud about this hadith. He narrated it in the same way as I narrated it to Ibn 'Umar. (Sahih Muslim Book #001, Hadith #0081)[/FONT][/FONT]

And that is what I tell in some of my last posts on last page that Mawlid is not forbidden but this dead man told wrong things about Mawlid.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: Importance of Adab e Mustafa s.a.w

Surah 49/1-2

1. O ye who believe! Put not yourselves forward Before God and His Apostle;But fear God: for God Is He Who hears And knows all things.

2. O ye who believe!Raise not your voices!Above the voice of the Prophet,Nor speak aloud to him In talk, as ye maySpeak aloud to one another,Lest your deeds become!Vain and ye perceive not.

Also 3/31, 4/65, 33/21, 68/2 etc.

These verses clearly tell us not to take the prophet like we take each other.

Here we have a bigger picture as well as to how important is a human being in sight of allah.

Just by looking down at the prophet one loses all good deeds one ever did.

fitna is worse than slaughter 2/217 etc.

Killing a single innocent human being is like killing of whole of humanity 5/38.

This is why we must stand together otherwise religion become useless for us if we do not take its advice seriously. So kindly refrain from things that cause divsion and fitna fasaad.



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[nasir ahmed]

the trash face who wants proof about the wahabbi grandfather Ibn Taymiyyahkuffar fatwa against sahaba and the *** who wanted proof better repent quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKN6Kb6uERY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cQBifAcpWk

The book is iqtida al-sirat al mustaqeem


Also the fatwa of ibn taymiyyah on the acceptance of milad:

Ibn Taymiyya's Opinion on the Celebration of the Mawlid ​

This is Imam Ibn Taymiyya's opinion about Mawlid from: "the Collected Fatwas," ("Majma' Fatawi Ibn Taymiyya,") Vol. 23, p. 163: "fa-t'adheem al-Mawlid wat-tikhaadhuhu mawsiman qad yaf'alahu ba'ad an-naasi wa yakunu lahu feehi ajra `adheem lihusni qasdihi t'adheemihi li-Rasulillahi, salla-Allahu `alayhi wa sallam"

"To celebrate and to honor the birth of the Prophet (s) and to take it as an honored season, as some of the people are doing, is good and in it there is a great reward, because of their good intentions in honoring the Prophet (s)."

 

[babadeena]

What makes me apply all mindoonillah verse to idols are the following points.
a)That mindoonillah are fuel for hell fire along their followers ie worshippers.
b)That the quran in its detailing verse clearly tells us it talking about idols and idol woshippers by describing
the idols and their worshippers in detail.

The can I sum up like this that according to you "Doonallah" means all those IDOLS(asnaam,buht), which
people used to worship, still worship or going to worship. Apart from Idols, there are no "Doonallah", and
I also assume that your basis is on Quran-based.
Do you Agree, or do you not agree, or you wish to rephrase this. I wait for your reply.
Rest is not of interest to me, because the topic is "Shirk" and not anything else. thanks.

 

[atensari]

?? ??? ??????

 

[Pakistani1947]

?? ??? ??????

If this poetry is for tahir-ul-qadri, then it is PURE SHIRK.

May Allah save Muslims from this fitna. (Aameen)

 

[Mughal1]

The can I sum up like this that according to you "Doonallah" means all those IDOLS(asnaam,buht), which
people used to worship, still worship or going to worship. Apart from Idols, there are no "Doonallah", and
I also assume that your basis is on Quran-based.
Do you Agree, or do you not agree, or you wish to rephrase this. I wait for your reply.
Rest is not of interest to me, because the topic is "Shirk" and not anything else. thanks.

Yes almost everywhere in the qaran the object of mindoonillah are idols not prophets, agnles and godly folks.

You are asking me as if you have found some verse in the quran in support of your view. Well that is good for both of us if that is the case. So let us have it please, but I doubt it will change the definition of monotheism or polytheism.

regards and all the best.

 

[babadeena]

Yes almost everywhere in the qaran the object of mindoonillah are idols not prophets, agnles and godly folks.
You are asking me as if you have found some verse in the quran in support of your view. Well that is good for both of us if that is the case. So let us have it please, but I doubt it will change the definition of monotheism or polytheism.
regards and all the best.

No this is not a clear-cut answer. To give some substance and making the debate meaningful, let us agree to some thing first.
So you have said that "MINDOONALLAH" are ONLY IDOLS AND NOT PROPHETS, ANGELS AND GODLY FOLKS(LET US DEFINE IT ALSO
AULIYA, SAINTS ETC). This is mine problem, if I have or do not have verses from Quran. Quran is not mine property only it is for
every one. If there will be verses then sure it would have caught your attention also??? So can you please confirm or edit
your stance.

 

[Mughal1]

No this is not a clear-cut answer. To give some substance and making the debate meaningful, let us agree to some thing first.
So you have said that "MINDOONALLAH" are ONLY IDOLS AND NOT PROPHETS, ANGELS AND GODLY FOLKS(LET US DEFINE IT ALSO
AULIYA, SAINTS ETC). This is mine problem, if I have or do not have verses from Quran. Quran is not mine property only it is for
every one. If there will be verses then sure it would have caught your attention also??? So can you please confirm or edit
your stance.

Dear brother, don't worry I shall be greatful if you correct any mistaken idea that I may have and you should know by now that I am an easy going guy. So please make your point. I can only see things once I am aware of what your point is.

my regards and best wishes.


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[babadeena]

Mughal1,
The "agreed ground work" needs to be ready for any reference. Ok I go here:

"MINDOONALLAH" in Quran includes many things not only IDols as you maintain. So if "Angels" are bracketed
with Mindoonallah in Quran, then according to your criteria they will also go to hell? Yes or No.

 

[Mughal1]

Mughal1,
The "agreed ground work" needs to be ready for any reference. Ok I go here:

"MINDOONALLAH" in Quran includes many things not only IDols as you maintain. So if "Angels" are bracketed
with Mindoonallah in Quran, then according to your criteria they will also go to hell? Yes or No.

Thank you brother, yes mindoonillah wherever it is used by allah in the quran is for idols. However it is also used by mushrikoon etc and that is just quoted by allah and only to deny their claim.

For example;

005.116 YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Here allah is actually excluding jesus from mindoonillah because the mushrik are including him. Likewise allah denies angels being gods or godesses other than allah. Allah says these is nonsense talk by these mushrikoon.

So if allah includes them then that will be sufficient proof that mindoonillah is used for other than allah eg for prophets and saints etc. THis is very important distinction that I thought I should make.

You can now see another point from me that allah says minddon9oillah are idols and mushrik claim that others are also mindoonillah but allah says no they are not mindoonillah rather they are from me ie they are min allah.

The issue is becoming more clear now that only mushrik claim that prophets and angels and saints etc are gods nor muslims nor allah accept any such thing about them rather all deny claim of mushrikeen.

053.027 YUSUFALI: Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names.
053.028 YUSUFALI: But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but conjecture; and conjecture avails nothing against Truth.


004.117 YUSUFALI: (The Pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: They call but upon satan the persistent rebel!
043.015 YUSUFALI: Yet they attribute to some of His servants a share with Him (in his godhead)! truly is man a blasphemous ingrate avowed!
043.016 YUSUFALI: What! has He taken daughters out of what He himself creates, and granted to you sons for choice?
043.017 YUSUFALI: When news is brought to one of them of (the birth of) what he sets up as a likeness to (Allah) Most Gracious, his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!

O one more point to note is that when anyone claims god status for any of the godly person, allah does not call them mushrik but instead calls them kaafir. Again a very important point that mindoonillah are idols.

005.073 YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

004.156 YUSUFALI: That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;

009.030 YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

098.001 YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence,-
098.006 YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.


003.052 YUSUFALI: When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

thanks and all the best


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[babadeena]

Mughal1,
Now this is change in your stance. First you say that "MINDOONALLAH" are only Idols. Now you say that these
are Mushraykoon who take them (Prophets like Essa (as), but even for you that is also an Idols. This is
not clear:
a) The verse is pointing out the scenario in the "Hereafter" (after Qayyama, Day of Judgement). It means
that people did take the Prophet of Allah as his Partner but not as Idol (asnaam). For Asnaam, there are
other clear verses. I will bring them also in due course. According to your criteria then Essa (as) (God forbid)
will also be fuel............

b) If People of followers of Essa (People of Scripture) have/had taken Essa as "Min doon Allah" as the
verse is pointing out and the example is being given to Muhammadian Muslims, so by logic as human
beings why the people who say we are Muslims will not fall in or do the same or can do the same or
doing the same when they are doing what you very well know.

So One point is now clear that the "definition Min doon Allah is also bracketing Prophets", is it or
still is it not? Under what criteria you had made a claim that "claimed to be believer cannot be
a mushrik", then?

 

[hawkeyeblue]

جزاک اللہ خیر

 

[babadeena]

وَجَدْتُهَا وَقَوْمَهَا يَسْجُدُونَ لِلشَّمْسِ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ وَزَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَعْمَالَهُمْ فَصَدَّهُمْ عَنِ السَّبِيلِ فَهُمْ لَا يَهْتَدُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{24**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 27:24] I found her and her people adoring the sun instead of Allah, and the Shaitan has made their deeds fair-seeming to them and thus turned them from the way, so they do not go aright[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 27:24] I found her and her people worshipping the sun instead of Allah; and Satan maketh their works fairseeming unto them, and debarreth them from the way (of Truth), so that they go not aright;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 27:24] "I found her and her people worshipping the sun besides Allah: Satan has made their deeds seem pleasing in their eyes, and has kept them away from the Path,- so they receive no guidance,-

OK my dear, now an element of Orbit like the SUN has been including in MINDOONALLH. is it IDOL (Asnaam). So it will also be
fule of fire as per your criteria.
[/SIZE]

 

[babadeena]

مَا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ ۖ كَانَا يَأْكُلَانِ الطَّعَامَ ۗ انْظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انْظُرْ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{75**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:75] The Messiah, son of Marium is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away![/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 5:75] Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth![/SIZE]
قُلْ أَتَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا ۚ وَاللَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{76**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:76] Say: Do you serve besides Allah that which does not control for you any harm, or any profit? And Allah-- He is the Hearing, the Knowing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 5:76] Say: Serve ye in place of Allah that which possesseth for you neither hurt nor use? Allah it is Who is the Hearer, the Knower.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 5:76] Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."

My dear again, Prophet is being included with "MINDoonallah", Will your criteria apply now. or you wish to redefine the
"Definition" of Mindoonallah. Still it is time for both of us.
[/SIZE]