What muslims and nonmuslims say about islam

Mughal1 · Apr 4, 2011

This thread is created to help people here understand islam better by way of looking at what others think of muslim beliefs and practices and why.

This is an attempt to get people away from sectarian divide and debates to real debates that matter for future of mankind and muslims themselves.

These kind of discussions and debates hold the key to our better understanding of islam because that way we can see where we have gone wrong for ourselves.

Let us start with trying to answer some questions.

1)Is islam a divine religion or a divine world order or what is fundamental difference between the two?

2)What is purpose of the quran or divine revelation according to the quran?

3)How does or can that purpose benefit mankind?

4)What are fundamental concepts, principles, precepts, values, beliefs that quran wants people to pay attention to or to establish?

5)How can these fundamentals be established?

More later. May Allah help us all to participate in this thread sensibly seeking nothing but the truth the best we can.

regards and all the best.

Mughal1 · Apr 5, 2011

Mughal1 · Apr 5, 2011

As I understand islam, it is not a religion but a deen. A religion is only a set of beliefs and rituals whereas islam is a divine constitution. Many muslim scholars take islam to mean religion as well as deen at the same time because they emphasize islam as a creed as well as a constitution but they remain confused as to what they really mean by all this. However, most muslims take islam as a religion but some like me take it to mean deen in sense of a divine constitution or world order or system.

Religion is merely a creed and some rituals to please deity whereas divine constitution or order or system is more about organizing mankind for their own good in service of deity. There is no concept of ritualistic worship in a constitution because constitution is all about running an organization or a company or a state. It is not at all about worship rituals rather it is about creating structures and putting in place systems and laws for some goals and for people to live by. For example, islam is an ideology for politics, society, culture and economics.

Let us take ZAKAAT for example. Zakaat is all about economic system of islam. If we try and understand the quran properly then we will see that zakaat is not an independent ritual as almost every mawlana believes. Instead ZAKAAT is a system based on parts like RIBAA, BAEE, GHANEEMA, QARAZA, NAFA, BAITAL MAA etc. According to the quran ghaneema is not 2.5% but 20%. Likewise the SLAAH and the SAWM are not rituals but divine systems.

Islam as it is in the quran is very different from what is believed and practiced by people who claim to be muslims. This difference is not new but very old ie since after the khilaafte rashda. That is when real divine system was brought down and so it remained. It was not only brought down but was also reinterpreted according to wishes of muslims rulers one after the other. This divine political and economic system was changed from constitutional khilaafah into a ritualistic religion and thus religion became separated from state. New laws were created in form of fiqh in the name of islam as islamic shariah that had little to do with actual islam.

This becomes very obvious if we study works of such muslim scholars as really understood islam but because that islam did not suit muslim rulers they were pushed aside and so real islam remains only a distant dream in pages of the quran. It will remain there till muslims read and understand the quran properly.

The first thing that people need to realise is that the quran is not like books of other religions. They are full of magical stories for kids that make no sense. Mawlanas did try to do the same with the quran by borrowing jewish and christian stories so much so that jews and christian began to claim the quran is copied from their scriptures.

The quran was a stand alone book and that is how it made proper sense but by linking it to other scriptures the quran too was covered up for whatever reason. The result is that almost all muslims are today in state of great confusion due to divisions between them that came about as a result of covering up the proper teachings of the quran.

It is because of this cover up that we have debates about hazir nazir, noor bashar, jins and malaaika or adam and iblees, creationism or evolution, finality of prophethood and the like.

The earlier generations covered up the quran for us and we did not bother to rediscover it and the result is as we see it. A people happy with ritualism but unhappy about everything else. Anyone who tries to get people to use their minds and logic, is banging his head against the brick wall.

If this mindset and attitude continues I do not see any future for muslim ummah. The ummah must give up blind following or we are heading for our destruction. Rationality and use of brain is the only way we can regain our lost status, there is no one going to drop from sky to do miracles to change things better for us, because Allah only helps those who help themselves.

Unicorn · Apr 5, 2011

Very nice post Mr. Mughal it covered a wide spectrum of thoughts.

I find Mr. Ali in the very first video very impressive. He just look likes a average guy, not dressed like pope. He explained his views with perfect logic and reasoning. His approach to investigation is correct he says he only became Muslim when he found the proof to satisfy him. I am more likely to believe what he says than anyone else in these videos.

Since I am a betting man I bet this guy does not belong to any Firka.