Who started 1965 Indo Pak WAR?????

hans

Banned
Can some one shed some light on the following query..

1) Operation Gibraltar, why was it destined to fail from the start?

2) Why did Nawb of Kalabagh resigned in Ayubs ere, keeping in light two of Ayubs sons kidnapped the daughter of the IG Police.

3) Further wish to know exact date Operation Grand Slam Pakistan started? AS per my knowledge, 1st Sept 1965 Pakistani Ground forces over ran Chamb on the Indian side of Kashmir by 2nd Sept 1965, Pakistani Troops were crossing River Tawi. And by late evening were ready to attack Akhnur. This never fizzled.

My point is all over Pakistan ask any citizen, who started 1965 War? The answer is India. Are we really sure that Pakistan did not start this War. As the dates clearly says that our troops crossed River Tawi around 2nd Sept 1965.

We as a Nation should come out our Fox holes, and confess to our doings.
 

Haider2332

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Dont call Pakistan ur country and Pak Army ur Army. You r Indian and talk to us as an Indian.
what happened in 1971??? was it Pakistan Army that attacked East Pakistan from four directions???

Your filthy army attacked us in 1965 and wished to take their afternoon tea in Lahore but we made u drink COW's PISS.
U are doing finger in Pakistan again and this time we will capture India to finish this process. Until we conquer this Khaiber, conspiracy cannot be eliminated from this region.

PAK ARMY ZINDABAAD
PAKISTAN PAINDABAAD
 

hans

Banned
Mr Haider,

I did remind all horned Members to keep there slurs to them selves. It only reflects ones mental sickness and pervert up bringing.

Only reason I am keeping an Alis on this web site is to protect my self. And if you have cooled down I would still require you to answer my listed question.
As for Fall of Dacca and East Pakistan , why don't you read through, 5 part post on Mehmood Rehman commission report. Its still on Siasat.pk

it written by a Govt of Pakistan and it explain reason and cause.

As for Khyber, this incident does not reflect on what I am trying to point too. Be focused and stay on the Track, If you are a Pakistani then Am a better Pakistani.

Well its time some one answer my question with a cool head.
 

Haider2332

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Who is this Hamud ur Rehman??? Is he someone Sihaba or even Prophet??? Who says, what ever he wrote, have to be accepted as God's words.
U r trying to divert our concentration from the main topic which is "Indian Involment in Pakistan". I am assuring u that if u bring millions of veiled people, they wont be able to achive ur disgusting target.

If we have to discuss the past, Lets Start from Hazrat Usman RTA. Who killed him?? Zaid or Bakkar??
How about Hazrat Ali?? What his killer ate before killing him??? Jalebi or Dahi Bhalley???

Leave this shit away from here ok.
I am not saying anything in reply to the language u used for me but if u dont stop then I ll teach u some trick or two.

PAKISTAN ARMY ZINDABAAD
 

taul

Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ hans


-Are you so ashamed of being called an indian,well if u are indian you can openly admit it as contra and loverboy admitted,,it's fine you do not have to be a hypocrite..
 
Its an hidden reality that this was started due to the objective of Qadianees....because as per their so called nabi's Ilam...Kashmir will come to you suddenly....so fullfill this prophecency of a liar nabi....qadiani Generals i.e. Gen. Abdul Ali and Gen. Abdul Hameed, forced Gen. Ayub to start proceedings towards Kashmir, and they also assure Ayub that this way India will not attack on Pakistan, so unfortunately Ayub accepted their plan and orders the forces to proceed towards Kashmir, but in reply, India attacked on Lahore, which really caused a huge loss for Pakistan......this is the common mentality of the qadianees....they can go to any limits for the prophecency of their so called lanti nabi (Mirza Qadiani)......which shows that they are the biggest enemy of Islam as well as Pakistan, as well said by Illama Iqbal, that Qadianees are the betrator of Islam as well as Pakistan and they are the copy of Jews.
 

foqia khan

MPA (400+ posts)
@ HENS

War was ,is n will never come to an end from Pakistan side in Kashmir even if our Govt doesn't take the issue seriously ,Pakistani People will never sit quietly until the disputed area is not given right of vote under the resolution of UN to decide to jion india or Pakistan .....it is a disputed area not part of india to claim reason for 65 war on Pakistan.
the reason for 65 war was india ,no concern whatever websites say.....they started war by trying to enter our free land....our border .
n mr. HENS don't pretend to be Pakistani...... Pakistanis know from where their history starts....
 

Bret Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
I think Hans is right and it was indeed Pakistan’s “Brave Army” who initiated the 1965 war with India. With all due respect to the propa****ists of Pakistan’s military it was not Indian forces which infiltrated their regular fighters in the disputed region of Jammu & Kashmir after the skirmishes of Rann of Kutch in April 1965. However Indian forces responded with their attacks on Pakistani held Kashmir region and therefore chain of reactions started from both sides and indeed Operation Gibraltar was an attempt from Pak forces on the 01st of September 1965 to capture the Akhnoor sector of Jammu. The rest is history that how Indian establishment opened or widened the war theatre to the western borders of Pakistan and hence Indian forces marched towards the Lahore sector on the 6th September 1965 the official commencement of war between two nations.

Here it is notable and very important to observe what Pakistan’s Air Marshal and Commander in chief Nur Khan and the Commander in Chief of Operation Gibraltar Major General Akhtar Hussien Malik at that time, accused the then president of Pakistan to start the conflict of 1965 with India and Major General Malik was on record to state the poor and misconceived planning of Operation Gibraltar by the high command of Pakistan army at that time.

After the UN intervention of ceasefire on the 23rd September 1965 following observations were made by independent sources around the word in order to state the outcomes free from the lope sided assertions from the conflicting sides and thus may be free from the biases;

According to the United States Library of Congress Country Studies “The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.[Instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government”.

Time Magazine also commentated after the ceasefire that “That India held 690 Mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 Mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily. The same article stated that 'severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N'”

Stanley Wolpert summarized the 1965 conflict between India-Pakistan in his article which was published in The University of California Press 1990 with title of India in these words “In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin”.

Newsweek magazine quoted the conflict and commended Pakistani army to withhold the massive onslaught of its enemy which was higher in proportion in these words “By just the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own”.

We as a nation don’t need to seek refuge in the barb of fickle patriotism on the matters of history and great nations are those who learn and try to rectify their mistakes which they perpetrate in their past contrary to the notion of those xenophobes who always tends to live in their self conceived edifices of false conceit and magnanimity. One point we need to bear in our minds that history don’t care our prejudices and likeliness. It’s crude and often leaves a bad taste on our taste buds if we tend to ignore its hardcore facts and try to rewrite our own version of events in order to restore our unfounded pride.


Bret Hawk
 
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Haider2332

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
syed_nd said:
pakisatni hona theek magar hamari fauj ki ghalteea or nalaiqeea beshumaaaar hain bhai

Arey bhaee in ko bhai q bolte ho. Kisi Pakistani ko Itni mohobbat kaise aa sakti hai India se. Agar in ko insaaf ko daura pada hai to
ja ker judge ban jayein. Yaha apni aisi tesi kerwane q aate hein.

Iss topic ko khatam ho jana chahye bass aur inshaallah ab aik hi maqsad hai....India ko wapis capture kerna hai aur koi dosti buss aur koi
dialogue nahin chahyein hum ko.

Death to INDIA.

PAK ARMY ZINDABAAAD
 

shabbir leghari

New Member
who started war ??

does this question matter now after 45 years?

history must b studied to learn lesson from it but not just to blame each other
and plz ghuse mai insaan apni baat ka wazan ganwa bethtahai r phir swal gandom

jawab chana ban jata hai.

discussion must be constructive plz, thanx
 

manibaig

Citizen
Oye Hello, if pakistan started this War then why weren't they prepared for this. U guys forgot when Indian army attacked Lahore, only handful of people stopped them and each pakistani Killed aroung 65 indians. My point is if we started the war then y we were sleeping LOL. No one starts the war and goes to sleep. Pakistan Zindabad
 

manibaig

Citizen
OK here it is... we won karggil and 1965 and even 48 war But india always wins media war against us. So international media publish all these stupid articles while sitting in their comfortable chairs and relying on Indian media, If you really want the fact the Morons come to Pak or India and see for yourself. Pakistan Zindabad.
 

foqia khan

MPA (400+ posts)
Bret Hawk said:
I think Hans is right and it was indeed Pakistan’s “Brave Army” who initiated the 1965 war with India. With all due respect to the propagandists of Pakistan’s military it was not Indian forces which infiltrated their regular fighters in the disputed region of Jammu & Kashmir after the skirmishes of Rann of Kutch in April 1965. However Indian forces responded with their attacks on Pakistani held Kashmir region and therefore chain of reactions started from both sides and indeed Operation Gibraltar was an attempt from Pak forces on the 01st of September 1965 to capture the Akhnoor sector of Jammu. The rest is history that how Indian establishment opened or widened the war theatre to the western borders of Pakistan and hence Indian forces marched towards the Lahore sector on the 6th September 1965 the official commencement of war between two nations.

Here it is notable and very important to observe what Pakistan’s Air Marshal and Commander in chief Nur Khanat that time of the conflict and the Commander in Chief of Operation Gibraltar Major General Akhtar Hussien Malik also accused the then president of Pakistan to start the conflict of 1965 with India and Major General Malik was on record to state the poor and misconceived planning of Operation Gibraltar by the high command of Pakistan army at that time.

After the UN intervention of ceasefire on the 23rd September 1965 following observations were made by independent sources around the word in order to state the outcomes free from the lope sided assertions from the conflicting sides and thus may be free from the biases;

According to the United States Library of Congress Country Studies “The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.[Instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government”.

Time Magazine also commentated after the ceasefire that “That India held 690 Mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 Mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily. The same article stated that 'severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N'”

Stanley Wolpert summarized the 1965 conflict between India-Pakistan in his article which was published in The University of California Press 1990 with title of India in these words “In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin”.

Newsweek magazine quoted the conflict and commended Pakistani army to withhold the massive onslaught of its enemy which was higher in proportion in these words “By just the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own”.

We as a nation don’t need to seek refuge in the barb of fickle patriotism on the matters of history and great nations are those who learn and try to rectify their mistakes which they perpetrate in their past contrary to the notion of those xenophobes who always tends to live in their self conceived edifices of false conceit and magnanimity. One point we need to bear in our minds that history don’t care our prejudices and likeliness. It’s crude and often leaves a bad taste on our taste buds if we tend to ignore its hardcore facts and try to rewrite our own version of events in order to restore our unfounded pride.


Bret Hawk

there is control line between both side of Kashmir , not border, border n control line are absolutely two different things.....when u say .....chain of reactions....exactly this is the answer....this chain doesn't start from yr.65 .....it starts from the day when kashmir was not given the right of self determination n was occupied by india.... what Pakistan did there ,was a chain of reaction....n the spirit of this reaction will always be alive until the issue is not solved.

It was India who started 65 war on border area of Pakistan .which cannot be called chain of reaction .we do take lesson from history n from our mistakes n from world but don't see world from others eyes .If Pakistan disrespect any of neighbour's border ,we will condemn ,but Kashmir issue has full support by every Pakistani n if india not come to solve the issue on table ,Pakistan forces will be fully supported by all Pakistani nation even if it start war countless times n fail.
we have respect for borders but don't accept the occupation of kashmir without their right of dertermination.
 
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babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Beyond any doubt, Pakistan started war in 1965. This is a reality. We have been
fooling our nation since long. This war broke our spine economically and financially,
a trauma we never recovered still now. If anybody has doubt please read
M.B.Khalid book "Ten years in Presidency". He was Private Secretary to Ayub.
 

pak4rule

Senator (1k+ posts)
I failed to understand why to ask such questions , pay attention to your present to make the future better.

stop discussing the old theories or fact , nothing gonna change with that.

If one really cares about pakistan just mend the present situation.

India never accepted pakistan and never will, how hard pakistan do to make things better these hindus wont be humain in their acts.

Dont forget what they did at the time of partition, if even pakistan started 1965 war , I am happy and proud coz we have to take account of all those shaheeds of 1947 when indian acts were worse than animals.

these butchers are so coward that get frightened even hearing a fire from pakistan. Indians can only kill , torture , mistreat innocent and unarmed people just like they doing in kashmir, and many parts of their country or like they attacked women, children and unarmed men in 1947 to 1950.
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
[MENTION=5079]taul[/MENTION] BHAI Assalam-o-alaikum
WELCOME BACK AFTER SO MUCH TIME..
NICE TO SEE YOUR REPLIES STARTING TO COME AGAIN..
 

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