Why is Rape not mentioned in Quran ?

[Citizen X]

he informed me that in Islam one can not ask questions.

Because Taqi Usamani is nothing but a typical moulvi sectarian mushrik idiot. The dumb shits who say things like don't read the Quran with understanding because it will lead you astray.

8:22. Indeed, the worst of all beings in the sight of Allah are the ˹wilfully˺ deaf and dumb, who do not understand. The worst of all creatures in God's sight are those deaf and dumb ones who do not think.

So just following blindly without using your God given common sense and reasoning is forbidden and Allah consider those the "worst of all creatures". But majority just follow blindly.

And bob you have so (un)artfully dodged all the Quranic verses quoted disproving your hadith.

And if this was your lame and feeble attempt at trying to show that the Quran "needs" your hadith to "explain" it then as I mention, it was a

massive FAIL.

You moved the goal posts at least 3 times in this one thread, every time your question was addressed you moved the goal posts. it went from why to if to is it.

Ask as many questions as you like, but be willing to accept the answer given and don't insist on getting the answer you want.

But of course as with everything else, everything is also not black and white, the Quran itself says it.

Quran 3:7 It is He who has sent this Scripture down to you. Some of its verses are definite in meaning- these are the cornerstone of the Scripture- and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own: only God knows the true meaning. Those firmly grounded in knowledge say, ‘We believe in it: it is all from our Lord’- only those with real perception will take heed-

 

[Wake up Pak]

This is what I have read so far. I hope this will clear some misconceptions regarding rape punishment in Islam.

In my personal opinion, the grave matter of 'rape', a sexual assault violating the dignity of another soul would clearly fall under the Quranic concept of 'fasaad fil ard' (corruption in the land).

The Quranic shariah in the matter of 'fasaad fil-ard' is extremely serious.

Rape is not a personal consensual sin between two parties. This is a gruesome forced crime against the dignity of another human being and a crime against a righteous society that seeks to protect the innocent. To place rape in the same category as 'zina' so as to intimate the same punishment would be ludicrous.

Once we enter the realms of 'fasad 'fil ard', then upon appropriate proof, the punishments can vary, including death.

From the Quran's perspective, the right to take life is only allowable in two circumstances (5:32). This is a generic law (applicable to all) and has been cited in the context of the Children of Israel in the backdrop of the first murder ever committed.

• For just retribution in the case of murder (for unintentional manslaughter, see 4:92)
• For spreading sheer corruption in the land (fasaad fil ard) (5:33)

As rape is not consensual illicit sex, verses of Surah Nur (24:2-3) concerning adultery would arguably have limited applicability and one only of superficial comparison. The Quran does not stipulate a direct punishment for rape which further lends to the strong suggestion that this is a matter completely for those in governance to decide.

It is clear that any punishment for rape would be far more serious than that of consensual illicit sex and would demand a crucial assessment of proof, severity, implications and then appropriate retribution. To assert otherwise would amount to nothing but gross injustice.

If consensual illicit sexual liaisons attract 100 lashes (24:2), a false testimony 80 lashes (24:4), the hint of prostitution attracts indefinite house arrest (4:15) and the punishment for consensual homosexuality (4:16) is left completely to those in governance to decide based on circumstances and severity, one can only but imagine the seriousness with which rape would be dealt with.

After all, rape involves gross coercive sex, physical violence and a gross violation against the soul leaving an indelible mark on ones emotional state, possibly indefinitely.

Those in governance may deem it appropriate to introduce any number of lashings in addition to a severe financial recompense for the victim, or in more serious cases (serial rapist / child molestation), the death sentence for the perpetrator of the crime. It may even be deemed appropriate to implement a lengthy jail sentence as a deterrent followed by a period of long rehabilitation. Whatever the decision, it should be based on severity and a matter for the appropriate authorities.

Albeit 33:58 speaks about slander (and not rape), we note 33:60 to once again apply to transgressions against wider society which would arguably fall once again, within the ambit of fasad fil ard (corruption in the land). For this reason, in 33:61, we note the retribution to include death.

Fasad fil-ard (crime against society / corruption in the land) remains an extremely serious crime from the Quran's perspective.

Rape is one such crime, as it is not only coercively inflicted against the person but also against the society that has the responsibility to protect the innocent.

 

[Cyber_Security]

Because Taqi Usamani is nothing but a typical moulvi sectarian mushrik idiot. The dumb shits who say things like don't read the Quran with understanding because it will lead you astray.

8:22. Indeed, the worst of all beings in the sight of Allah are the ˹wilfully˺ deaf and dumb, who do not understand. The worst of all creatures in God's sight are those deaf and dumb ones who do not think.

So just following blindly without using your God given common sense and reasoning is forbidden and Allah consider those the "worst of all creatures". But majority just follow blindly.

And bob you have so (un)artfully dodged all the Quranic verses quoted disproving your hadith.

And if this was your lame and feeble attempt at trying to show that the Quran "needs" your hadith to "explain" it then as I mention, it was a

massive FAIL.

You moved the goal posts at least 3 times in this one thread, every time your question was addressed you moved the goal posts. it went from why to if to is it.

Ask as many questions as you like, but be willing to accept the answer given and don't insist on getting the answer you want.

But of course as with everything else, everything is also not black and white, the Quran itself says it.

Quran 3:7 It is He who has sent this Scripture down to you. Some of its verses are definite in meaning- these are the cornerstone of the Scripture- and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own: only God knows the true meaning. Those firmly grounded in knowledge say, ‘We believe in it: it is all from our Lord’- only those with real perception will take heed-

Oh My God! I am laughing my head off.
Gee, you are smart. You wrote
>And if this was your lame and feeble attempt at trying to show that the Quran "needs" >your hadith to "explain" it then as I mention, it was a

>massive FAIL.
I must admit, you are right. I wanted to expose you and others who don't believe in Hadees to answer a question that is answerable only through Hadees. That was the main purpose of this thread.
You figured it out, well that's good.

Having said that, you must admit that you could not answer this question. You beat around the bush, you associated rape with adultery. You could not answer how the rapist should be punished through Quran guidance. Just claiming that you know everything is not enough - - -
The rape crime puzzle is only solvable in Islam through Hadees where Prophet Muhammad PBUH punished someone without 4 witnesses and set an example for the rest of the World to follow. the hadees clearly separated Rape from adultery. Because in adultery 4 witnesses are needed. ask a third person, it was my massive success, you could not prove that without Hadees in Islam, a rapist can be punished.

The main point is, that Islam is only complete through the Quran and Hadees. Without Hadees, you don't even know how to punish a rapist. I hope now on you understand the importance the Hadees.
By the way, it was very easy for me to claim that you are actually a non-Muslim because most of Muslims don't consider someone a Muslim who does not respect and believe in our beloved Prophet Muhammad's Hadees. But I don't label people non-Muslim, so I didn't do what you did to me.

 

[Meme]

Oh My God! I am laughing my head off.
Gee, you are smart. You wrote
>And if this was your lame and feeble attempt at trying to show that the needs" >your hadith to "explain" it then as I mention, it was a

>massive FAIL.
I must admit, you are right. I wanted to expose you and others who don't believe in Hadees to answer a question that is answerable only through Hadees. That was the main purpose of this thread.
You figured it out, well that's good.

Having said that, you must admit that you could not answer this question. You beat around the bush, you associated rape with adultery. You could not answer how the rapist

Phew.... I thought you had become an agnostic/atheist during your absence from the forum...

 

[Citizen X]

Oh My God! I am laughing my head off.
Gee, you are smart. You wrote
>And if this was your lame and feeble attempt at trying to show that the Quran "needs" >your hadith to "explain" it then as I mention, it was a

>massive FAIL.
I must admit, you are right. I wanted to expose you and others who don't believe in Hadees to answer a question that is answerable only through Hadees. That was the main purpose of this thread.
You figured it out, well that's good.

Having said that, you must admit that you could not answer this question. You beat around the bush, you associated rape with adultery. You could not answer how the rapist should be punished through Quran guidance. Just claiming that you know everything is not enough - - -
The rape crime puzzle is only solvable in Islam through Hadees where Prophet Muhammad PBUH punished someone without 4 witnesses and set an example for the rest of the World to follow. the hadees clearly separated Rape from adultery. Because in adultery 4 witnesses are needed. ask a third person, it was my massive success, you could not prove that without Hadees in Islam, a rapist can be punished.

The main point is, that Islam is only complete through the Quran and Hadees. Without Hadees, you don't even know how to punish a rapist. I hope now on you understand the importance the Hadees.
By the way, it was very easy for me to claim that you are actually a non-Muslim because most of Muslims don't consider someone a Muslim who does not respect and believe in our beloved Prophet Muhammad's Hadees. But I don't label people non-Muslim, so I didn't do what you did to me.

So basically as I said

Quran 45:6 These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?

Quran 3:16 Among the people there are those who uphold baseless hadith, and this diverts others (from the Way of Allah, and make a mockery of it. For such people there is a disgraceful punishment.

Quran 6:114 Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

SO you're saying ( nauzubillah ) that Allah is lying when he says to follow only his hadith and his sunnah and that the book that he has revealed is fully detailed and he is the only source of law.

SO some defeated Persians 2 to 3 centuries later went to "collect and compile" hadith because Allah had lied and/or forgotten so many things that these persians took it upon themselves to "complete" Allah's deen through centuries old hearsay.

I rather be a hadith denier, than a Quran denier. And like I said that lame attempt was a major FAIL!

Also let me add

[Quran 18:27] You shall recite what is revealed to you of your Lord's scripture. Nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other source beside it.

[Quran 5:50] Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than God's for those who have attained certainty?
Quran 42:21 How can they believe in others who ordain for them things which God has not sanctioned in the practice of their faith? If it were not for God’s decree concerning the final Decision, judgement would already have been made between them. The evildoers will have a grievous punishment-

Quran 7:185 Have they ever reflected on the wonders of the heavens and the earth, and everything Allah has created, and that perhaps their end is near? So what hadith after this would they believe in?

Quran 45:6 These are Allah’s revelations which We recite to you in truth. So what hadith will they believe in after Allah and His revelations?

Quran 77:50 So what hadith would they believe in?

But I know you hadithiyouns are really allergic to the Quran and follow your manmade Persian books instead.

And as always with you lot, the people who make the most noise have actually read the least hadith, know very little about the history of hadith or the so called hadith sciences.

So how many compilations of your sacred sahih sitta have you actually read? Which you are defending here? And I know you will avoid this question like the plague because you don't want to be caught with your pants down defending your books

 

[Citizen X]

This is what I have read so far. I hope this will clear some misconceptions regarding rape punishment in Islam.

In my personal opinion, the grave matter of 'rape', a sexual assault violating the dignity of another soul would clearly fall under the Quranic concept of 'fasaad fil ard' (corruption in the land).

The Quranic shariah in the matter of 'fasaad fil-ard' is extremely serious.

Rape is not a personal consensual sin between two parties. This is a gruesome forced crime against the dignity of another human being and a crime against a righteous society that seeks to protect the innocent. To place rape in the same category as 'zina' so as to intimate the same punishment would be ludicrous.

Once we enter the realms of 'fasad 'fil ard', then upon appropriate proof, the punishments can vary, including death.

From the Quran's perspective, the right to take life is only allowable in two circumstances (5:32). This is a generic law (applicable to all) and has been cited in the context of the Children of Israel in the backdrop of the first murder ever committed.

• For just retribution in the case of murder (for unintentional manslaughter, see 4:92)
• For spreading sheer corruption in the land (fasaad fil ard) (5:33)

As rape is not consensual illicit sex, verses of Surah Nur (24:2-3) concerning adultery would arguably have limited applicability and one only of superficial comparison. The Quran does not stipulate a direct punishment for rape which further lends to the strong suggestion that this is a matter completely for those in governance to decide.

It is clear that any punishment for rape would be far more serious than that of consensual illicit sex and would demand a crucial assessment of proof, severity, implications and then appropriate retribution. To assert otherwise would amount to nothing but gross injustice.

If consensual illicit sexual liaisons attract 100 lashes (24:2), a false testimony 80 lashes (24:4), the hint of prostitution attracts indefinite house arrest (4:15) and the punishment for consensual homosexuality (4:16) is left completely to those in governance to decide based on circumstances and severity, one can only but imagine the seriousness with which rape would be dealt with.

After all, rape involves gross coercive sex, physical violence and a gross violation against the soul leaving an indelible mark on ones emotional state, possibly indefinitely.

Those in governance may deem it appropriate to introduce any number of lashings in addition to a severe financial recompense for the victim, or in more serious cases (serial rapist / child molestation), the death sentence for the perpetrator of the crime. It may even be deemed appropriate to implement a lengthy jail sentence as a deterrent followed by a period of long rehabilitation. Whatever the decision, it should be based on severity and a matter for the appropriate authorities.

Albeit 33:58 speaks about slander (and not rape), we note 33:60 to once again apply to transgressions against wider society which would arguably fall once again, within the ambit of fasad fil ard (corruption in the land). For this reason, in 33:61, we note the retribution to include death.

Fasad fil-ard (crime against society / corruption in the land) remains an extremely serious crime from the Quran's perspective.

Rape is one such crime, as it is not only coercively inflicted against the person but also against the society that has the responsibility to protect the innocent.

You are wasting your time, you think he is interested in anything you have to say or here to reason with you? No, as always just here to prove you wrong and shove his POV down your throat. He is just another mushrik garbage book follower defending his garbage books.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You are wasting your time, you think he is interested in anything you have to say or here to reason with you? No, as always just here to prove you wrong and shove his POV down your throat. He is just another mushrik garbage book follower defending his garbage books.

I'm pretty sure these followers of ahadith can not give a uniform method of punishment of rape from their ahadith as well.

 

[Citizen X]

I'm pretty sure these followers of ahadith can not give a uniform method of punishment of rape from their ahadith as well.

They cannot give you a uniform method of their most important "pillar" and practice of Islam, their namaz from hadith, let alone something like this.

Thats what happens when you have 100 plus books of hadith lols and then every sect have their own hadith they consider sahih, weak and fabrication etc etc. What a frekin' mess!

 

[Cyber_Security]

You are wasting your time, you think he is interested in anything you have to say or here to reason with you? No, as always just here to prove you wrong and shove his POV down your throat. He is just another mushrik garbage book follower defending his garbage books.

When you resort to personal attack that means you have lost the debate.

 

[Wake up Pak]

They cannot give you a uniform method of their most important "pillar" and practice of Islam, their namaz from hadith, let alone something like this.

Thats what happens when you have 100 plus books of hadith lols and then every sect have their own hadith they consider sahih, weak and fabrication etc etc. What a frekin' mess!

Let me pose a straightforward question to all followers of the Hadith: if the Hadith were so significant, why did Prophet Mohammad not write the Ahadith during his lifetime in the same manner as the Quran?
atensari knowledge88

 

[yasirsaeed]

اگر میں آپ کو ایک مثال سے واضح کرنے کی کوشش کروں تو آپ برا تو نہ منائیں گے؟

فرض کریں آپ کے علاقے پر کچھ لوگ حملہ کرتے ہیں، وہ آپ کی بہن بیٹیوں کو اٹھا کر لے جاتے ہیں اور اپنی لونڈیاں بنا لیتے ہیں۔

اب آپ کی بہن بیٹیوں کے ساتھ وہ لوگ جو سیکس کریں گے آپ اس کو ریپ تصور کریں گے یا نہیں۔۔۔؟؟​

It ist a strawman. I am not saying that I like/sympathetic to this situation. I was saying that slavery (male and female) was present at that time and it was the norm just as interest in norm today but I dislike. Just as you can not eradicate interest with a blink of an eye same was the case with slavery which quran reformed gradually (You can listen to Javed Ahmed Ghamidi using the link I provided.) The scenario you mentioned is not relevant today.
You can not equate something that was norm to a crime that is not correct. That is a false equivalence. You have to see things in a context.

 

[M_Shameer]

Let me pose a straightforward question to all followers of the Hadith: if the Hadith were so significant, why did Prophet Mohammad not write the Ahadith during his lifetime in the same manner as the Quran?
atensari knowledge88

آپ کی اطلاع کیلئے عرض ہے کہ قرآن بھی انہی ہاتھوں سے آپ کے پاس پہنچا ہے جن ذرائع سے احادیث پہنچتی ہیں۔ حدیث میں تو پھر چین آف نیریشن ہوتی ہے، قرآن میں تو وہ بھی نہیں ہے۔ قرآن آج جس شکل میں آپ کے پاس موجود ہے یہ کوئی پیغمبر اسلام کا تدوین کردہ قرآن نہیں ہے۔ ان کے جانے کے بعد حضرت عثمان نے قرآن جمع کیا جو ان کی دانست میں صحیح تھا، اس کو شامل کرلیا اور جو مشکوک لگا اس کو جلوا دیا۔۔۔ یہاں تک کہ قرآن میں زیر زبر پیش وغیرہ بھی بہت بعد میں حجاج بن یوسف کے دور میں لگے۔ تو جس کتاب کو آپ یہ سمجھ رہے ہیں کہ یہ خدا کا ناقابلِ تحریف کلام ہے جو شاید اسی طرح آسمان سے اتر کر آج آپ لوگوں کے ہاتھ پہنچ گیا، یہ بہت سے ہاتھوں سے ہوکر اس شکل میں پہنچا۔ مزید برآں آج بھی قرآن کے تقریبا سات مختلف ورژن موجود ہیں جن میں کئی جگہ پر فرق ہیں۔۔۔ ​

 

[Citizen X]

When you resort to personal attack that means you have lost the debate.

I'm quoting you ayah's from the only undisputable uncorrupted book of Allah that we have with us today which is 100% against following any scripture outside of the Quran and warns us against following any "hadith and law" beside that of the Quran and this is the best you can do!

Sure mate, you're the champion of the universe now.

And of course as predicted you avoided my simple question.

So how many compilations of your sacred sahih sitta have you actually read? Which you are defending here? And I know you will avoid this question like the plague because you don't want to be caught with your pants down defending your books

Because like most you're also just another blind follower.

 

[Citizen X]

Let me pose a straightforward question to all followers of the Hadith: if the Hadith were so significant, why did Prophet Mohammad not write the Ahadith during his lifetime in the same manner as the Quran?
atensari knowledge88

You'll laugh your ass off at the answer and justification these hadithiyoun mushriks have come up for this if you don't know already!

I won't say it yet, but let me predict as with aunty sari and now Mr 88 you will NOT get a straight answer, I'm 99% certain they don't even know what their own mushrik ilk has come up with to justify this.

 

[Wake up Pak]

آپ کی اطلاع کیلئے عرض ہے کہ قرآن بھی انہی ہاتھوں سے آپ کے پاس پہنچا ہے جن ذرائع سے احادیث پہنچتی ہیں۔ حدیث میں تو پھر چین آف نیریشن ہوتی ہے، قرآن میں تو وہ بھی نہیں ہے۔ قرآن آج جس شکل میں آپ کے پاس موجود ہے یہ کوئی پیغمبر اسلام کا تدوین کردہ قرآن نہیں ہے۔ ان کے جانے کے بعد حضرت عثمان نے قرآن جمع کیا جو ان کی دانست میں صحیح تھا، اس کو شامل کرلیا اور جو مشکوک لگا اس کو جلوا دیا۔۔۔ یہاں تک کہ قرآن میں زیر زبر پیش وغیرہ بھی بہت بعد میں حجاج بن یوسف کے دور میں لگے۔ تو جس کتاب کو آپ یہ سمجھ رہے ہیں کہ یہ خدا کا ناقابلِ تحریف کلام ہے جو شاید اسی طرح آسمان سے اتر کر آج آپ لوگوں کے ہاتھ پہنچ گیا، یہ بہت سے ہاتھوں سے ہوکر اس شکل میں پہنچا۔ مزید برآں آج بھی قرآن کے تقریبا سات مختلف ورژن موجود ہیں جن میں کئی جگہ پر فرق ہیں۔۔۔ ​

Agar Quran bhi ahadith key tarah hay tou aaj tak koi Quran may tazad ya ghalathi nahi nikal saka. woh alaug baat hay kay quran key verses jo ghair muslims ko samajh nahi aati tou woh apni marzi kay bayghair context kay matlab nikal lay taay hain. ahadith may tou na siraf contradiction hay balaky bohut see ghalazat bhi hay.

 

[M_Shameer]

Agar Quran bhi ahadith key tarah hay tou aaj tak koi Quran may tazad ya ghalathi nahi nikal saka. woh alaug baat hay kay quran key verses jo ghair muslims ko samajh nahi aati tou woh apni marzi kay bayghair context kay matlab nikal lay taay hain. ahadith may tou na siraf contradiction hay balaky bohut see ghalazat bhi hay.

احادیث بھی آج تک ویسی کی ویسی ہیں کسی حدیث میں کوئی تبدیلی نہیں ہوئی۔

اور جہاں تک تضادات کی بات ہے تو قرآن میں احادیث کی طرح بے شمار تضادات ہیں۔ مثال کے طور پر ایک جگہ لکھا ہے کہ ایک انسان کا قتل پوری انسانیت کا قتل ہے اور دوسری جگہ لکھا ہے انسانوں کو مارو، کاٹو ان کے جوڑ جوڑ کاٹ دو۔۔ ​

 

[arifkarim]

Agar Quran bhi ahadith key tarah hay tou aaj tak koi Quran may tazad ya ghalathi nahi nikal saka.

سارے مسلمان ریسرچر قرآن پر تحقیق کر رہے ہوں گے تو غلطی کہاں سے نکلے گی؟

 

[arifkarim]

مثال کے طور پر ایک جگہ لکھا ہے کہ ایک انسان کا قتل پوری انسانیت کا قتل ہے اور باقی جگہوں پر انسانوں کو مارنے کے احکامات دیئے

دوسری مذاہب کی کتب جیسے بائبل و تورات بھی انہی تضادات کا مجموعہ ہے

 

[Wake up Pak]

احادیث بھی آج تک ویسی کی ویسی ہیں کسی حدیث میں کوئی تبدیلی نہیں ہوئی۔

اور جہاں تک تضادات کی بات ہے تو قرآن میں احادیث کی طرح بے شمار تضادات ہیں۔ مثال کے طور پر ایک جگہ لکھا ہے کہ ایک انسان کا قتل پوری انسانیت کا قتل ہے اور دوسری جگہ لکھا ہے انسانوں کو مارو، کاٹو ان کے جوڑ جوڑ کاٹ دو۔۔ ​

Yeah he tou may samjhanay key koshish kar raha hoon kay jab out of context ayat paysh karain gaay tou tazadat nazar aay ga.

 

[Wake up Pak]

سارے مسلمان ریسرچر قرآن پر تحقیق کر رہے ہوں گے تو غلطی کہاں سے نکلے گی؟

Toum bhi koshish kar lo