Women's Rights in Islam

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Allah (SWT) says in the Quran: "O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at time of marriage) you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honorably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good." (An-Nisa 4:19)

I have severe reservations on above translation. Faiza will you please give on line link from where you have taken it. I have highlighted certain words in "red", will appreciate for which Arabic word in the verse, the "Mahr" has been translated.
 

Faiza

Moderator
I have severe reservations on above translation. Faiza will you please give on line link from where you have taken it. I have highlighted certain words in "red", will appreciate for which Arabic word in the verse, the "Mahr" has been translated.

Source: - http://quran.com/4/19


O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the Mahr you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good.

O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them unless they commit a clear immorality. And live with them in kindness. For if you dislike them - perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.



مومنو! تم کو جائز نہیں کہ زبردستی عورتوں کے وارث بن جاؤ۔ اور (دیکھنا) اس نیت سے کہ جو کچھ تم نے ان کو دیا ہے اس میں سے کچھ لے لو انہیں (گھروں میں) میں مت روک رکھنا ہاں اگر وہ کھلے طور پر بدکاری کی مرتکب ہوں (تو روکنا مناسب نہیں) اور ان کے ساتھ اچھی طرح رہو سہو اگر وہ تم کو ناپسند ہوں تو عجب نہیں کہ تم کسی چیز کو ناپسند کرو اور خدا اس میں بہت سی بھلائی پیدا کردے
 

Faiza

Moderator
I dont want to go more into this discussion, because its not something which we should do for the sake of argument.if any one think what I post, I have any personal agenda behind this, I request, dont waste your time with this. Do something else which is more positive.
 

Faiza

Moderator
@ A.Ali.T

I am all for womens right, but I am against feminists, because they think all men are their enemies, which is not the case.

May be you have a misconception about feminism, who told you they hate all man..Any way just for your knowledge. It has nothing to do with man only; they work for all kind of discriminationwhich womans have to face much more than a man

I am a feminist because:

F I act to end all forms of inequalities based on gender, age, ability, race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status.

F I challenge systems and ideas that reproduce inequalities

F I am committed to individual choice and self-determination

F I strive to create an environment where it is safe to question the status quo

F I am continually challenging my own privileged position

The reality is no one can feel the pain of others, they can try to understand, they can imagine, they can feel sorry for them, that all .. so the best thing one can do is try to help other as much as you can, they dont need to be feminist for that, but that exactly what most feminist are doing

جس تن لاگے سو ہی جانے
حور نہ جانے کوے
 
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babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
I don’t want to go more into this discussion, because its not something which we should do for the sake of argument….if any one think what I post, I have any personal agenda behind this, I request, don’t waste your time with this. Do something else which is more positive….

I only drew the attention of the readers, how the people have "literally murdered" Quran when translating it. This is really very unfortunate. Since you
pasted the translation of Mohsin Khan, which is really a "sorrow state", I pointed it out. Perhaps on some other thread, it can be discussed, please
continue with your "Jehad" for women rights.
I only wish to add one thing: It will not be of any difference unless people accept what Allah has ordained for women. Take the example of
"inheritance", From all the people of our society and also globally which I know, Not even 2 percent of people implement it, in letter & spirit. And
sometimes they even did not give any cent to females or even offer them any.
 

Faiza

Moderator
Man and women are not enemies, and there is no reason to compare them that which one is better than other because we already know through Quran. As it is already written in Quran

33:35] The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.

[40:40] whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness - male or female - while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits.
 

A.Ali.T

Minister (2k+ posts)
Faiza
All the femenists that I know, they all say that they hate men and that all men are pigs. However, if you are saying that's not the case then I believe you.

I have no problems with what you stated in your post except one thing which is as follows

F – I am committed to individual choice and self-determination
Individual choices is ok, as long as it does not include prostitution, abortion, lesbianism and bisexuality.

There are some feminists who are against prostitution, while there are other feminists who hold that prostitution and other forms of sex work can be valid choices for women. Then there are some who think that marriage constitutes slavery for women and that freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage. In Pakistan I have seen some folks who are trying to promote this agenda, they are attempting to destroy our family system, I think we need to be aware of these miscreants. I am totally against all this nonsense.
 
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Faiza

Moderator
@ A.Ali.T

Like in any other area of life, you find difference, same with this alsofeminism is not only some thing which is created by one group, and every one has the follow every thingfreedom of speech and freedom of choices, is also a part of this, which means I can have my own choice, of what I like and dislike, I dont like to work any place or any group of people where I have to follow their rules completely, whether its right or wrong. If some one promote, (prostitution, abortion, lesbianism and bisexuality). It doesnt meanI have to or any other feminist have to follow that, at least in my understanding.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@ A.Ali.T

Like in any other area of life, you find difference, same with this also…feminism is not only some thing which is created by one group, and every one has the follow every thing…freedom of speech and freedom of choices, is also a part of this, which means I can have my own choice, of what I like and dislike, I don’t like to work any place or any group of people where I have to follow their rules completely, whether its right or wrong. If some one promote, (prostitution, abortion, lesbianism and bisexuality). It doesn’t meanI have to or any other feminist have to follow that, at least in my understanding.
Faiza,
As a woman, can you please share:
a) what are the rights of woman in General, (a list, apart from the list of your post 1);
b) What are the rights or could be rights of Pakistani/Muslim lady, in a country like Pakistan;(keeping in view society, culture, religion, environment etc);
c) Are any one right from that list, is being fulfilled, if so what are they?
d) Can the rights demanded by a woman in a western society are also or could also be the rights of woman in Islamic country;
e) What are the best ways to ensure that those rights can be awarded.
f) Any other points:
 
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Faiza

Moderator
@ babaneeda,
a) What are the rights of woman in General, (a list, apart from the list of your post 1);
Brother, in general women have a right to live, same as man, with respect, dignity, and honor. There is no need of any separate list other that what I list earlier. she is a human being just like a man, she has feeling, emotion, sentiments, pain, in short.if you slap a man, what he will feel, shame, anger, revenge, insult, hurt, pain ect, same as a woman, its not that she is made of different kind of material, she will have a same feeling may be a bit more because physically she is less stronger than man, emotionally she is more sensitive than man. Allah describe all rights in Quran because its not possible for human being that he can give any right to any one, thats is the reason after ( zamanaye jahaliyat) when Islam came, then only woman got their rights, before they use to be treaded like a slave.

b) What are the rights or could be rights of Pakistani/Muslim lady, in a country like Pakistan;(keeping in view society, culture, religion, environment etc);
Pakistan is also a part of some other world, so in that case she should get all the rights what Allah gave it to her.when you say society, cultural and environment, these are all man mad stuffsince I am against every thing which we do in the name of cultural and has nothing to do with Islam, what I can say about that, because we find more way to torrcher each other in the name of cultural such as Dowry.

c) Are any one right from that list, is being fulfilled, if so what are they?
Unfortunately most of the stuff we do is in our cultural, not because they are in Islam, so this is one of the reason woman dont get complete rights, again same eg, she gets (jahaiz) dowry, but mostly she dont get proper share in "inheritance",another example is she has a right to have her separate home after marriage, which is almost impossible in our cultural. ect.

d) Can the rights demanded by a woman in a western society are also or could also be the rights of woman in Islamic country;
I dont want to compare, east and west, because we as a Muslim, believe that the rights we get, or the way of living Allah tala told us is better than any other religion, cultural or society, and unfortunately women in west may be not have same problems as women in east, but as a victim of violence, inequalities, and discrimination, more or less she is also straggling for her rights.

e) What are the best ways to ensure that those rights can be awarded? f) Any other points:
Globally, at least one in three women and girls is beaten or sexually abused in her lifetime. (UN Commission on the Status of Women, 2/28/00)
A recent survey by the Kenyan Women Rights Awareness Program revealed that 70% of those interviewed said they knew neighbors who beat their wives. Nearly 60% said women were to blame for the beatings. Just 51% said the men should be punished. (The New York Times, 10/31/97)
So-called "honor killings" take the lives of thousands of young women every year, mainly in North Africa, Western Asia and parts of South Asia. (UNFPA)
The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported that 2002 saw a 25% increase in honor killings of women, with 461 women murdered by family members in 2002, in 2 provinces (Sindh and Punjab) alone. (Pakistan Human Rights Commission, 2002)
A 2005 study reported that 7% of partnered Canadian women experienced violence at the hands of a spouse between 1999 and 2004. Of these battered women, nearly one-quarter (23%) reported being beaten, choked, or threatened with a knife or gun. (Family Violence in Canada: A Statistical Profile, 2005)
The annual study for the year 2009 was released in Islamabad on February 1, 2010 by Ms. Rabeea Hadi, a representative of the Aurat Foundation. The study, which is based on statistics compiled by the NGO, noted a 13 percent increase in incidents of violence against women in Pakistan in 2009.
The incidents of violence against Pakistani women include rape, gang-rape, honor killing, acid throwing, suicide, abduction and murder. Following are some of the excerpts:
"Of 8,548 Cases of Violence, 5,722 Incidents were Recorded in Punjab, 1,762 in Sindh, 655 in the NWFP, 237 in Baluchistan and 172 in Islamabad" "Cases of violence against women witnessed a 13 percent increase in 2009 from the previous year.
"Rabeea Hadi, a representative of the Aurat Foundation, said that 8,548 incidents of violence against women were reported in the four provinces Punjab, Sindh, North West Frontier Province (NWFP) and Baluchistan, and in Islamabad last year.
"Of the 8,548 cases of violence, 5,722 incidents were recorded in Punjab, 1,762 in Sindh, 655 in the NWFP, 237 in Baluchistan and 172 in Islamabad. The total figure shows a 13 percent increase when compared with 7,571 incidents of violence against women reported in 2008.
"In Islamabad, the 172 incidents included 39 cases of murder, two honor killings, 52 abductions/kidnappings and 18 domestic violence [disputes].
"The state, honorable judiciary, free media, the womens rights and human rights organizations and common citizens must know that 1,384 daughters of Pakistan were murdered, 928 were raped, 683 committed suicide and 604 were killed in the name of honor in the year 2009, Ms. Hadi said while releasing the figures.
"The Highest Increase in the Number of Reported Cases i.e. From 281 in 2008 to 608 in 2009 was in Domestic Violence" "
Noting that nearly 85 percent of women experience violence in Pakistan but that society keeps mum on their sufferings, Ms. Abdullah said: "Not many women have the guts to stand up for their rights and seek help from government functionaries.
Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2448168/posts

man, are already more stronger than women, more powerful than women, so please stop criticizing a women, stop blaming her for every thing, stop comparing yourself with her, as a husband you are already a head of her, as father, you have right on her, as a brother you are privilege then her, so when you are emotionally and physically more stronger than why its so hard to give her rights which Allah tala gave to womendont go back to time of ( jahaliyat).. Best way is try to live a life to please Allah, all the rights will be ensure. inshaAllah
 

swing

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@ A.Ali.T

I am all for women’s right, but I am against feminists, because they think all men are their enemies, which is not the case.

May be you have a misconception about feminism, who told you they hate all man…..Any way just for your knowledge. It has nothing to do with man only; they work for all kind of discrimination…which woman’s have to face much more than a man

I am a feminist because:

F – I act to end all forms of inequalities based on gender, age, ability, race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status.

F – I challenge systems and ideas that reproduce inequalities

F – I am committed to individual choice and self-determination

F – I strive to create an environment where it is safe to question the status quo

F – I am continually challenging my own privileged position

The reality is no one can feel the pain of others, they can try to understand, they can imagine, they can feel sorry for them, that all ….. so the best thing one can do is try to help other as much as you can, they don’t need to be feminist for that, but that exactly what most feminist are doing

جس تن لاگے سو ہی جانے
حور نہ جانے کوے


FAIZA DONE COPY PAISTE FROM HERE.

asassa.jpg
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@Faiza,
There is no need of any separate list other that what I list earlier
OK, let us take point number one from your list. We assume or presume that we are discussing
woman's right in Islam (as per topic), with reference to any islamic or so-called islamic society(like Pakistan) and will give our own views/comments without undue copy n paste from other sites, if necessary link can be given.

1. The right and duty to obtain education.
Pakistan spends even less than 2 percent on education. According to UN, its international counting is among the six least educated countries or is in the bottom group. Although the government claims that it is 30 percent as per its own definition, but factual position is that this figure does not cross the double digit in any case as per international definition.
Do you think that in this field the society or government is responsible or the men as
male members. So how that can be done? I think it is the system not the men as per say, who are responsible for the mess.
If we scan Quran, there is only one or two verses wherein it is stated that "those who know are not equal to those who do not know". Now this word "those" include men and ladies etc. There is more than often quoted a Haidth that "get Elim even if you have to go to China".
So religion permits eduction, there is no second thought on that. But making it a debate only male-specific is of no use. Because it is the system, lack of sincerity is involved. There is no lacking in resources, people lie if they say like this, but the resources are diverted to somewhere else.
Duty to education: This word duty falls on women, if they wish to study, if opportunities are and they(women) do not study, then it should not be made a point of duty for men to make them study.
Now Faiza, I have briefly stated the situation in Pakistan, now tell me how some Allahah Deen ka lamp come and it should be education for all. and Why we have to make this matter a gender-specific. A country where 70 percent or more still lives in villages, in bondage, in miserable conditions, the practical solutions should be pointed out, instead of making this point a gender-specific debate. Suppose if in villages the ladies are more interested to hear Heer,
Arif Lohar, Sasi Pannu, Kutt Kutt bajra mein Khotay utay pani haan etc. and work in fields then to go to Schools, if any, then what the gender should do here. I think this slogan has been
imported from the West by totally ignoring the realities of our own society. But sure I am
ardent supporter of ladies eduction in every fields, but I do not close eyes from the bitter realities.
 

Faiza

Moderator
FAIZA DONE COPY PAISTE FROM HERE.

asassa.jpg

Try to do some thing more constructive in your life..criticizing others is not enough for a better change

Any ways thanks for telling me about the site, but no thanks, because I all ready knew about it
 

Faiza

Moderator
@Faiza,

OK, let us take point number one from your list. We assume or presume that we are discussing
woman's right in Islam (as per topic), with reference to any islamic or so-called islamic society(like Pakistan) and will give our own views/comments without undue copy n paste from other sites, if necessary link can be given.


Pakistan spends even less than 2 percent on education. According to UN, its international counting is among the six least educated countries or is in the bottom group. Although the government claims that it is 30 percent as per its own definition, but factual position is that this figure does not cross the double digit in any case as per international definition.
Do you think that in this field the society or government is responsible or the men as
male members. So how that can be done? I think it is the system not the men as per say, who are responsible for the mess.
If we scan Quran, there is only one or two verses wherein it is stated that "those who know are not equal to those who do not know". Now this word "those" include men and ladies etc. There is more than often quoted a Haidth that "get Elim even if you have to go to China".
So religion permits eduction, there is no second thought on that. But making it a debate only male-specific is of no use. Because it is the system, lack of sincerity is involved. There is no lacking in resources, people lie if they say like this, but the resources are diverted to somewhere else.
Duty to education: This word duty falls on women, if they wish to study, if opportunities are and they(women) do not study, then it should not be made a point of duty for men to make them study.
Now Faiza, I have briefly stated the situation in Pakistan, now tell me how some Allahah Deen ka lamp come and it should be education for all. and Why we have to make this matter a gender-specific. A country where 70 percent or more still lives in villages, in bondage, in miserable conditions, the practical solutions should be pointed out, instead of making this point a gender-specific debate. Suppose if in villages the ladies are more interested to hear Heer,
Arif Lohar, Sasi Pannu, Kutt Kutt bajra mein Khotay utay pani haan etc. and work in fields then to go to Schools, if any, then what the gender should do here. I think this slogan has been
imported from the West by totally ignoring the realities of our own society. But sure I am
ardent supporter of ladies eduction in every fields, but I do not close eyes from the bitter realities.

If you want me to talk in general, not specifically blame only man for the messso lets start what we are as a whole, not a part of whole, so then we need to go more in depth to analyze our self.from my point of view when I analyze us as a notion, few things come in my mind right away, cultural, corruption, insecurity, fear. (Definitely some nice things too, which I am not mentioning here because this is irrelevant from the topic) so in short we are a nation where lots of corruption going on, not only in politics, but from top to bottom, and in nation its only man, its both man and womenevery one play their part some way, some how, again its a very big chapter of insecurities, greediness, power and lots of other factors

If I make my self clear than I like to go into other reasons:

There are not many schools for girls, or they are far from their home especially in villages, parents dont feel safe to send their girls far from home, they dont have much awareness about the importance of education, financial difficulties, they dont like to educate girls because of the fear that she might be out of control, and in the end she is not the one who will support them when they will be old ect, ect, ect..

Giving you an example of some northern areas, and Baluchistan where they still have strong wadara syatem (political reason) they dont want their people to have education.

Yes we have resources they are diverted to somewhere else. Its not a problem only in the education sector but in all other areas also, because again as a nation we never decide or make a list of our priorities according to our need, to be successful.
When you said if there opportunities available and they still dont study (I didnt get this, what opportunities) do they have opportunities? do they have awareness?and the second thing you said is the ladies are more interested to hear Heer, Arif Lohar, Sasi Pannu, Kutt Kutt bajra mein Khotay utay pani haan etc. and work in fields then to go to Schools,

You must be joking, so I should believe that the girls from rest of the world is interested in education but in Pakistan they dont want studies because they are more interested in other stuff. I was not also interested in studies, my parents, my surrounding, my brought up made it important, its a matter of bring awareness for me seriously I can write pages on this but I dont want, so leave this??????

The practical solutions should be pointed out, instead of making this point a gender-specific debate.

You asked me to point out a solution, brother, how can I point out more than what I already did in my earlier post, when every thing as you also admit clear in Quran and hadith, all we need to do is follow. The rest will come by it self..
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@Faiza,
Then should we summarize your point No.1 with reference to Pakistan:
--) it is not due to a gender-specific problem but both genders are victim of it;
---) The main responsibility is of those people who are at the helm of affairs;
---) It is not woman-verses man or other way round;
If you agree to this, then I think it is not fair to include this point in Female's list of agony, rather it is agony of all.
and the second thing you said is the ladies are more interested to hear Heer, Arif Lohar, Sasi Pannu, Kutt Kutt bajra mein Khotay utay pani haan etc. and work in fields then to go to Schools,

You must be joking,
you missed the word "PERHAPS" before this sentence in my post and that changed the whole thing?
 

Faiza

Moderator
@Faiza,
Then should we summarize your point No.1 with reference to Pakistan:
--) it is not due to a gender-specific problem but both genders are victim of it;
---) The main responsibility is of those people who are at the helm of affairs;
---) It is not woman-verses man or other way round;
If you agree to this, then I think it is not fair to include this point in Female's list of agony, rather it is agony of all.

you missed the word "PERHAPS" before this sentence in my post and that changed the whole thing?


Brother if you read my post again, what I said was in general we can not blame only man, for every thing but it is a man made society, I believe women play their role also who have some kind of power, it doest mean women can completely control every thing, they still work in the influence of man choice.and I mention so many points which were pointing out that women/ girls are suffering more than man..(When I said as a nation we are corrupt, thats already clear that in a corrupt society every one suffer) but women have to suffer a lot more than man..

May be I am not a good writer, its hard for me to explain what I want to say in writing, so I thing we should leave it.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
We, in our society, do not have "Sincerity" in any thing. If the people who are responsible do not care about
the revealed as well as their own-made Constitution, then nothing will be forthcoming. So Ladies as well as
men are going to suffer, although the degree of suffering for woman may elevate.
 

Faiza

Moderator
Optimists think the glass is half full. Pessimists think the glass is half empty. Realists know that someone will have to wash the glass.
 

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