FRANCE IS IN TROUBLE

[Vitamin_C]

You have no idea about the things they do with Jesus. So much so that the Christians have become desensitized to it. It was the French that fought the Catholic Church and reduced their influence in Europe.

yea , then when they dont make cartoons of ISSA A.S , Mussa A.S and Ibrahim A.S then i will also say freedom of speech but they will never make fun of jesus , moses OR ibraham because they also beleive in them ... they just want to tease Muslims by insulting our Prophet PBUH.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Where did I say freedom of speech is absolute? I keep saying you cannot make speech that incites violence against a person or group of person. But you are allowed to criticize and mock ideas. Religion is an idea so its fair game.

Maybe you need to read up a little before posting crap. Firstly, its the Fr that went to the Arabs and colonised them, then they needed labour. And Freedom of speech is not absolute, you have libel and slander laws, so your fucking logic is bollocks. And if you want try your luck,try denying the holocaust. So fuck off you prick.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Any decent human being believes in that, just like any decent human being believes in not raping their 10 month old baby (which sadly took place in the US only a week ago). With your logic this barbaric act is justified since the dad believed it was his kid to do with as he wills..

So you are saying that the French support raping 10 month old babies therefore your belief is more important than theirs? Can you show me proof that the French support this. If you cannot find that proof, can you answer my actual question that you are trying to avoid when I asked you why your beliefs are more important than the French? Especially in their own country.

Incorrect -- heres some actual facts -- ".... Such proposed laws [against holocaust denial] have been criticised and faced opposition, most significantly from civil rights and human rights advocates who contend that the such laws would violate people's established rights of freedom of speech and freedom of expression. "
So by your logic, since freedom of expression is the core of French values, thus they should be allowed to deny the holocaust if they so choose to do

There were groups that wanted to get rid of holocaust denialism laws but they were rejected because they gave the reasoning that denying crime against humanities are not allowed in France. Don't quote things out of context.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I don't think a harmless activity such as drawing a cartoon is comparable to chop someone's head off. It is disturbing that you even make such a comparison.

Laws should be made on reason, not on emotions and religions.

I know you are somewhere in north America.
I dare you to openly criticise about holocaust or queen of England and her ancestors and see what happens to you.
There is a limit to freedom of expression and speech. You can't hurt someone's beliefs and sentiments under the garb of freedom of speech.
Now take a dose of vitamin C and go to sleep.

 

[Mughal1]

I don't think a harmless activity such as drawing a cartoon is comparable to chop someone's head off. It is disturbing that you even make such a comparison.

Laws should be made on reason, not on emotions and religions.

azeezam vitamin c sb, your thinking or mine makes no difference if we have no time to work out a common standard. Whatever we think or do matters not if we are not trying to work out a common standard to begin with. All standards some people have tried to come up and imposed them upon each other have not worked out so far. This clearly shows we need a common standard and that common standard has to suit everyone or whoever it does not suit will rebel against it always at the very first opportunity. This is why what we define as true or right does not work and it has not worked in the past and will not work in the future either. This is why all people need to come out of their boxes and see things as they are and work out a way to live by, the way they want to live or the way they can live the best. That is the only solution humanity has not tried so far.

regards and all the best.

 

[Hate_Nooras]

Where did I say freedom of speech is absolute? I keep saying you cannot make speech that incites violence against a person or group of person. But you are allowed to criticize and mock ideas. Religion is an idea so its fair game.

How does denial of the Holocaust incite violence but its illegal( and rightly so in my opinion).

 

[Hate_Nooras]

So you are saying that the French support raping 10 month old babies therefore your belief is more important than theirs? Can you show me proof that the French support this. If you cannot find that proof, can you answer my actual question that you are trying to avoid when I asked you why your beliefs are more important than the French? Especially in their own country.



There were groups that wanted to get rid of holocaust denialism laws but they were rejected because they gave the reasoning that denying crime against humanities are not allowed in France. Don't quote things out of context.

But why? Surely nobody can be hurt by mockery or criticism, see their is no logic to your argument, and just like the Muslims, the Jews are also migrants.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Because Holocaust was violence against a certain group (Jews) and it was a crime against humanity. There are still groups in Europe who believe in Nazi ideology it is usually these groups or other people who hate Jews such as Iranians Mullahs who resort to Holocaust Denialism. Any speech that can lead to hate against certain group is not allowed.

Even Macron has to be careful because he is not allowed to make statements under French law that can create hatred against Muslims.

You can make fun of Moses, or the 10 commandments etc that is allowed. But if you say destroy mosques or attack Muslims then the French police will arrest you.

How does denial of the Holocaust incite violence but its illegal( and rightly so in my opinion).

 

[Hate_Nooras]

Because Holocaust was violence against a certain group (Jews) and it was a crime against humanity. There are still groups in Europe who believe in Nazi ideology it is usually these groups or other people who hate Jews such as Iranians Mullahs who resort to Holocaust Denialism. Any speech that can lead to hate against certain group is not allowed.

Even Macron has to be careful because he is not allowed to make statements under French law that can create hatred against Muslims.

You can make fun of Moses, or the 10 commandments etc that is allowed. But if you say destroy mosques or attack Muslims then the French police will arrest you.

That is a very weak argument. You can and people do cricticise Islam and Prophet(PBUH) but it can be done without mockery and on a civil level. And that for me is all part of debate but these guys are out to cause controversy and violence

 

[Vitamin_C]

I wouldnt mock because I dont want to hurt feelings, but at the same time I am not obligated to safe guard feelings. If you dont want to hurt feelings then criticizing Donald Trump also hurts his feelings. You cannot carter to people's feelings.

These cartoons were not degratory or bad in anyway. Unlike the cartoons of Kali Mata they made with a sexy swim suit and her tongue sticking out.

That is a very weak argument. You can and people do cricticise Islam and Prophet(PBUH) but it can be done without mockery and on a civil level. And that for me is all part of debate but these guys are out to cause controversy and violence

 

[Jack Squire]

So you are saying that the French support raping 10 month old babies therefore your belief is more important than theirs?

If this is what you understood from the argument, then there aint no point in having a discussion with you -- and for people like you we say 'Peace unto you sir...'

 

[Vitamin_C]

You still havent answered my question, why is your belief more important than the French? Dont make chawal arguments or you will have to run away like this with your tail between your legs.

If this is what you understood from the argument, then there aint no point in having a discussion with you -- and for people like you we say 'Peace unto you sir...'

 

[Jack Squire]

You still havent answered my question, why is your belief more important than the French? Dont make chawal arguments or you will have to run away like this with your tail between your legs.

Hypocritical much.... accusing others of your own evils...
"These cartoons were not degratory or bad in anyway. Unlike the cartoons of Kali Mata they made with a sexy swim suit and her tongue sticking out. "

As the saying goes, tumhara kutta -tommy, mera kutta -kutta...
Since you only want to argue for the sake of arguing and NOT for the sake of reconciling, THUS as muslims we're advised to say Peace be unto you....

 

[Vitamin_C]

I didnt accuse anyone, they can make what ever pictures of Kali Mata they want its allowed. The point I was making is that even though the cartoons of Muhammad werent bad looking or anything, people are still mad.

You are thrashing around like a fish out of water, I am still waiting for response on my original question. Why are your values and beliefs more important than that of the French?

Are you going to answer my question or are you going to continue to display to everyone what a chawal person you are?

Your only response was to compare your self to a pedophile and then say that your beliefs are better than the pedophile... The fact that you set a bar so low for yourself says alot about the type of person you are.

Hypocritical much.... accusing others of your own evils...
"These cartoons were not degratory or bad in anyway. Unlike the cartoons of Kali Mata they made with a sexy swim suit and her tongue sticking out. "

As the saying goes, tumhara kutta -tommy, mera kutta -kutta...
Since you only want to argue for the sake of arguing and NOT for the sake of reconciling, THUS as muslims we're advised to say Peace be unto you....

 

[Hate_Nooras]

I wouldnt mock because I dont want to hurt feelings, but at the same time I am not obligated to safe guard feelings. If you dont want to hurt feelings then criticizing Donald Trump also hurts his feelings. You cannot carter to people's feelings.

These cartoons were not degratory or bad in anyway. Unlike the cartoons of Kali Mata they made with a sexy swim suit and her tongue sticking out.

Donald Trump is a politician, he has opted to be elected. A prophet of Allah is not a politician, you may agree or disagree with his prophethood and you can debate on those points but mockery is not acceptable.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Why not?

Donald Trump is a politician, he has opted to be elected. A prophet of Allah is not a politician, you may agree or disagree with his prophethood and you can debate on those points but mockery is not acceptable.

 

[Imranpak]

Best to leave France and go to your mother land and help your country

France is there home country. Th history of France is they ruled Muslim countries for years.

 

[Jack Squire]

Are you going to answer my question or are you going to continue to display to everyone what a chawal person you are?

Resorting to name calling when logic fails is the hallmark of ignorance, I hope you develop the courage to be respectful to all even when you disagree with them... Cheers

 

[Vitamin_C]

What impression are leaving if you are trying to force your beliefs on other countries and other people.

You have a right to your own beliefs but you cannot force your belief on other people. Insaan k bache bano, French have made it clear that badmashi ab nahi chale gi. They have their own laws and their own values and it must be respected just like you have your laws and cultures in Pakistan.

Resorting to name calling when logic fails is the hallmark of ignorance, I hope you develop the courage to be respectful to all even when you disagree with them... Cheers

 

[Shazi ji]

In any human society one has to be sensitive to what causes pain to another. In the words of Imran Khan
"“In human communities we have to be sensitive towards what causes pain to other human beings.
In the Western society, and quite rightly, the Holocaust is treated with sensitivity, because it gives the Jewish community pain.
That’s all we ask: Do not use freedom of speech to cause us pain by insulting our holy prophet. That’s all we want.”

This cartoon contest is akin to Muslims organizing a contest of throwing cow meat on a Ram Statue, Or who can slaughter the most pigs in a synagogue or who can spit on a cross with the most accuracy -- how extremely evil/vile would that be -- and no even if the believers of the aforementioned faiths say go ahead, we don't care -- it still does not make it right, period! And the irony is not lost on those who truly understand/practice islam (and there be only a handful that do even if I say so myself )...

"And do not insult what they invoke beside Allah, as it will make them utter insults to Allah in enmity and ignorance." Quran 6:108

"And the devotees of the Most Merciful are the ones who walk upon the earth humbly and gently and when the ignorant address them to provoke them, they respond with grace and words of peace," Quran 25:63

Very well said and I appreciate the detailed narration ,,, much venerated janaab