What is shirk (شرک کیا ہے) ??

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Babadeena this [waseela] is the word which is the arabic of the word means of approach in the Ayat. There no addition. Why r you acting like this. I wrote to tell specifically that word waseela in the Ayat. Read Ayat yourself.

[5:35]

My question that No translator, as far as I know, while translating this verse has put the arabic
word into bracket, the question to you Mr. Cheeko is, why you put it while framing your posts.
I have given copy of your post, wherein you have ADVOCATED, going to grave or projected it,
now you have altogether twisted your position by saying that Grave prasti is Shirk. Tell me
now "Invoking any dead or living person/personality, beside Allah or with Allah, is also
shirk or not", your favoured FRACTION of surah Israh conveys it is?
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
My question that No translator, as far as I know, while translating this verse has put the arabic
word into bracket, the question to you Mr. Cheeko is, why you put it while framing your posts.
I have given copy of your post, wherein you have ADVOCATED, going to grave or projected it,
now you have altogether twisted your position by saying that Grave prasti is Shirk. Tell me
now "Invoking any dead or living person/personality, beside Allah or with Allah, is also
shirk or not", your favoured FRACTION of surah Israh conveys it is?

Brother I put the word myself to tell that waseela word is in Arabic. There is no addition in translation. The rest of your issue I have answered and you r just wasting our time.

Have you thought about detail of Salat or Namaz in Quran. I want to learn this from you babadeena.

May Allah guide us Ameen.
 

w-a-n-t-e-d-

Minister (2k+ posts)
i no baralwi and i belong to jamaat ahlus sunnah. I tolerating your bad misbehaving again and again. It co-incidence that barailwi have same view. All four madhab have same view shafi, maliki, hanfi and hanbali.

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mashahallah bohat zabardast kitab share ki hai apny ..

Yeh puri read karni ho tu kis site say milaygi bhai ???
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dears babadeena and cheeko, it true that intercession is in the quran and sop is waseelah but let me try if I can express whta it means as I understand it.

Intercession and waseelah both are conditional and not a blank check.

If one is not a muslim, there is no question of either ie both the intercessor and the interrcessed must qualify.

Since things of whom polytheists ask for intercession do not qualify themselves eg idols and they themselves do shirk that is forbidden therefore intercession or waseelah for them is not possible. Even when they ask for forgiveness in the name of jesus kufar do not qualify for his intercession because they believe in him as a god or as a son of god. Even though jesus qualies as intercessor but because his followers do not believe him a prophet instead attribute to him wrong status ie god status therefore they fall short of his intercession qualifying standard.

So when the quran talks about intercession being useless even of the prophets it simply means the people do not qualify because of their wrong beliefs.

As for defintion of towheed and shirk, I have shown only and only from the quran that mere use of same word between allah and his creatures does not make one mushrik nor even sharing the very same act unless the act itself is made unlawful.

Since both sunni and shia brothers agree on defintion of towheed and shirk any odd person coming up with independent interpretation or new definition without any clear convincing basis seems wrong to me so I am not going to take part in this towheed shirk debate any more as it would seem a waste of time. Because if anyone disagrees on anything with main stream shias and sunnies both then one really needs some really strong leg of reason to stand on or one will be standing in the air on his/her own in abyss.

What has come to my mind during this discussion is whether there is any proof in the quran that sajdah to other than allah is actually forbidden.

The verses which tell us do not make sajdah to other than allah eg sun and moon and stars and other things eg idols etc, in all of these places sajdah is used in sense of IBAADAH not in sense it is used for aadam or yusuf. So I shall appreciate any help on this matter.

Could any brother or sister please prove from the quran for me that sajdah of respect is really forbidden for a ghaire khuda?

regards and all the best.


[FONT=&quot]26 MAKAH ASH-SHU‘ARA=The Poets 47[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][1] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] Tua Seen Meem.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][2] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]These are verses of the Book that is guidance from all knowing which is clear.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][3] But you [/FONT][FONT=&quot]O Muhammad, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]will perhaps fret yourself to death with grief because they do not put their faith in it and do what is good for others.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][4] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If it was our will, We could send upon them the decision now in form of a universal response to their beliefs and actions before which they would bend their necks in submission.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][5] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They have been turning their backs on each fresh warning about it that comes to them from the Compassionate (Allah).[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][6] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But now that they have neglected the warning, they will soon come to know the reality of what they have been mocking at.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][7] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Have they not looked at the earth to see how We have caused all kinds of noble pairs to grow in it?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][8] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely in this there is a lesson for them; yet most of them do not put their faith in our guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][9] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]In fact your Lord is Mighty as well as Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][10][/FONT][FONT=&quot] Remind them of the story [/FONT][FONT=&quot]when your Lord called Moses and said: Go to the wickedpeople[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][11] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the people of Pharaoh. Have they no conscious? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][12] He [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: My Lord! I fear that they will reject and oppose me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][13] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]My breast feelscramped and my tongue is not eloquent; send Aaron with me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][14] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They have acharge of manslaughter against me and I fear they may put me to death.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][15] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Allah [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: no, never! Proceed, both of you, with Our revelations; surely We are with you,listening.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][16] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Go to Pharaoh and say: We are the Messengers from the Lord ofthe nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][17] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You should send with us the Children of Israel.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][18] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When they went to Pharaoh and conveyed the Message of Allah, he [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: Did we not cherish youwhen you were a child? Did you not stay several years of your life among us?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][19][/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then you did what you did; you are so ungrateful![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][20] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]replied: I did that by accident not deliberately.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][21] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I then fled from you all because I thought you may not be considerate of circumstances that led to that incident; but nowmy Lord has granted me wisdom and appointed me as one of His Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][22] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is it a favour with which you taunt me, that you have enslaved the Children of Israel?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][23] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh said: Who is this Lord of the nations?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][24] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]replied: He is the Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them, if you would care to put your faith in his guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][25] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said to those around him, Do you hear that?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][26] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]continued: He is your Lord and the Lord of your forefathers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][27] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh[/FONT][FONT=&quot]interjected: This Messenger of yours, who has been sent to you, is crazy.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][28] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]continued: He is the Lord of the east and the west, and all that lies between[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]them. If you would learn to understand. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][29] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At this, Pharaoh, who did not want to listen anymore [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: If you serve any other god besides me, I shall haveyou thrown into prison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][30] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At this, Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: even if I bring you something that will make obvious to you that what I claim is true?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][31] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: Go ahead, show it if you are of the truthful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][32] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hearing this, Moses demonstrated[/FONT][FONT=&quot] his command over his people, and thereupon the army of his people marched like a veritableserpent.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][33] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Thus he demonstrated his command over his people perfectly for all present to see and it became obvious for the spectators that Moses meant business.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][34][/FONT][FONT=&quot] After witnessing the demonstration of authority by Moses, Pharaoh [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said to the chiefs around him:This fellow is certainly a highly skilled person in political leadership and martial arts,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][35] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who seeks to drive you out from your land by the force of his political leadership and fighting skills both in words and deeds. Now what is your advice?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][36] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They submitted: Put him and his brother off for a while, and dispatch heralds to the various cities[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][37] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to bring you every person expert in these skills.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][38] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So the experts in political discourse and martial arts were brought together at the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]appointed time on a fixed day.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][39] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The people were motivated through saying: Would you come to the gathering?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][40] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So that we may follow the top experts if they prove to be dominant.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][41] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When the experts arrived, they asked Pharoah: Are we going to be rewarded if we are dominant?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][42] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh [/FONT][FONT=&quot]replied: Yes of course! You will even be made my courtiers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][43] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses said to them: demonstrate whatever skills you have and you want to demonstrate.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][44] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Thereupon they demonstrated their skills with ropes and sticks, saying: for the glory of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pharaoh, we shall be the winners.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][45] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then Moses demonstrated his skill, and lo! It took them by surprise making their skills look insignificant.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][46] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At this, all the experts admitted that they were no match for Moses and that he was truly a man of God so they submitted[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][47] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]saying: We believe in the Lord of the nations,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][48] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Lord of Moses and Aaron.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][49] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh shouted: How dare you believe in him before I give you permission? He must be your master who taught you the skills you have. But soon you shall find out. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][50] I will cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides and destroy you all utterly and terribly.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][51] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: we have no reason to worry about what you are saying! We are going to turn to our Lord for his guidance and you do as you please.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][52] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We only desire that our Lord look at us with grace and relieves us of our sins, as we are foremost to put our faith in his guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][53] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We revealed to Moses: Set off with my servants by night and beware thatyou will be pursued.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][54] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Pharaoh sent heralds to all the cities,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][55] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and to mobilize his people he said: These Israelites are but a handful of people,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][56] yet they raging furiously against us[/FONT][FONT=&quot];[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][57] even though[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we have a large army, well prepared.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][58] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Thus did We make them leave their gardens and their water springs,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][59] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]their treasures and sumptuous dwellings.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][60] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is how they were made to lose, while on the other hand We made the Children of Israel inheritors of such things.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][61] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At sunrise the Egyptians pursued them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][62] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]When the two hosts came face to face, the companions of Moses cried out: We are surely overtaken.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][63] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moses [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: Not at all! My Lord is with me; He will show me a way out.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][64] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then We revealed Our guidance to Moses saying: take charge of this sea of people and organise them properly, so he divided them in to huge separate groups in a defensive arrangement, each part stood like a mighty mountain between forces of Pharaoh and the sea.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][65] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We let Pharaoh and his army pursue them in hot haste.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][66] thus [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We delivered Moses and all who were with him;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][67] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and let others fall into the sea and destroyed them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][68] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely there is a lesson in this: yet most of these people do not learn to be wise and put faith in our guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][69] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][70] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Narrate to them the story of Abraham,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][71] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]when he asked his father and his people: What is that which you worship?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][72] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: We worship idols, and sit beside them with all devotion.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][73] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Abraham [/FONT][FONT=&quot]asked: Do they hear you when you call on them? Can they benefit you or harm you?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][74] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: No! But we found our forefathers doing so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][75] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Abraham [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: Have you ever seen with open eyes these which you have been putting your faith in[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][76] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- you and your forefathers before you?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][77] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They all have been enemies to me; except the Lord of the nations,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][78] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who created me, then He gave me guidance as to what to believe and what to do or not to do.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][79] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He is the One Who gives me food and drink,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][80] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who gives me health when I get sick,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][81] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who will cause me to die and then bring me back to[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]life,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][82] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who, I hope, will forgive me my mistakes on the Day of Judgment.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][83] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]After this, Abraham prayed: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]O my Lord! Bestow wisdom upon me and admit me among[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the righteous,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][84] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]grant me a reputation of truthfulness on the tongue of later generations,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][85] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]count me among the inheritors of the gardens of Bliss;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][86] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]forgive my elder, for he is from among those who have gone astray,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][87] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]do not hold me up in shame on the Day when everybody will be raised back to life[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][88] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]- the Day when neither wealth nor sons will avail anyone,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][89] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and when none shall be saved [/FONT][FONT=&quot]except him who will come before Allah with a pure heart,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][90] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]when paradise shall be brought in the sight of the righteous;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][91] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]while hell shall be spread open to the straying[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][92] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and they will be asked: Now, where are those in whom you used to put your faith [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][93] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]besides Allah? Can they help you or even help themselves?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][94] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then they will be toppled into it, both they and those who misled them,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][95] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]together with all the armies of Iblees,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][96] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]wherein they will argue with one another[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][97] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]saying: By Allah, we were indeed in manifest error,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][98] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]when we made you equals with the Lord of the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][99] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]It was the criminals who led us astray.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][100] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now we have no intercessors,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][101] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and no loving friends.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][102] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]If we could but once return to our worldly life, we would be of the true believers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][103] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely in this narration there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to be wise to put their faith in our guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][104] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][105] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The people of Noah, also, rejected and opposed the Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][106] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember when theirbrother Noah asked them: Have you no conscious?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][107] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rest assured that I am a trustworthy Messenger of Allah to you,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][108] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]so be mindful of Allah and obey me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][109] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I do not ask you for any reward for my services, for my reward will be given by the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lord of the nations,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][110] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]so be mindful of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][111] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: Should we believe in you, whereas your followers are but the lowest of the low?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][112] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He said: I have no knowledge as to what they have been doing;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][113] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]their account is the concern of my Lord, if you could use your sense![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][114] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am not going to drive away any believer.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][115] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am just a plain Warner.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][116] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They said: O Noah! If you do not stop, you shall be stoned to death.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][117] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Noah [/FONT][FONT=&quot]prayed: O Lord! My people have opposed me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][118] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Decide the case between me and them openly. Deliver me and the believers who are with me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][119] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So We granted his prayer, delivered him and those with him in the journey,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][120] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and drowned the rest in their own troubles they caused for themselves.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][121] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely in this story there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to be wise to put their faith in guidance of Allah.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][122] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][123] [/FONT][FONT=&quot] The people of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]'Ad, too, denied and opposed their Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][124] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember when theirbrother Hud asked them: Have you no conscious?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][125] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rest assured that I am a trustworthy Messenger of Allah to you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][126] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So be mindful of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][127] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I do not ask you any reward for my services, for my reward will be given by the Lord of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][128] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Are you erecting a monument on every high place for fun by using and abusing others?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][129] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Are you building strong fortresses on the backs of others as if you are the only one's going to live here forever?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][130] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Whenever you lay your hands on anyone, you act like cruel tyrants.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][131] Be mindful [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][132] Be thoughtful of him [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who has given you the knowledge for all things that you have.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][133] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He has given you flocks and children,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][134] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]gardens and fountains.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][135] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Truly I fear for you the torment of a dreadful time of revolt towards which you are heading by inflicting harm on each other.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][136] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: It is the same to us whether you preach us or you do not.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][137] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Such preaching is nothing but an ancient myth.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][138] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We are not going to be punished by way of any revolt that you are threatening us with.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][139] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So they disbelieved him and We utterly destroyed them as per our rule of cause and effect. Surely in this story there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to be wise to have faith in our guidance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][140] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][141] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The people of Thamud also disbelieved their Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][142] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember when their brother Saleh asked them: Have you no conscious?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][143] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rest assured that I am a trustworthy Messenger of Allah to you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][144] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So be mindful of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][145] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I do not ask you for any reward for my services, for my reward will be given by the Lord of the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][146] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Will you be left in peace to enjoy all that you have here at the expense of others forever if you continue disbelieving in guidance of Allah and doing harm to each other?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][147] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gardens and fountains,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][148] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cornfields and palm-trees laden with juicy fruit,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][149] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]carving your dwellings in the mountains and leading a happy life by using and abusing others?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][150] Be mindful of Allah [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][151] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not follow the bidding of those who use what they have to harm others,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][152] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who create corruption in the land and do not reform.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][153] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: You are but one of the insane people![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][154] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You are no more than a common man like us. Bring forth a sign if you are one of the truthful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][155] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Saleh [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: Well, here is the guidance of Allah in form of code of conduct. It has the right to be implement in the land of Allah for a time appointed as you all have your own laws for conduct under your jurisdiction.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][156] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do not go near this guidance in order to harm it, lest the punishment of a dreadful Day overtakes you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][157] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Yet they obstructed its implementation and kept on harming each other till they were made to regret what they used to do;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][158] For[/FONT][FONT=&quot] punishment they were warned against overtook them in form of revolt. Surely in this story there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to be wise to have faith in guidance of Allah.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][159] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][160] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The people of Lot, also, disbelieved their Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][161] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember when their brother Lot asked them: Have you no conscious?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][162] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rest assured that I am a trustworthy Messenger of Allah to you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][163] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So be mindful of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][164] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I do not ask you for any reward for my services, for my reward will be given by the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lord of the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][165] Have you become a famous people among people of the nations for things you do such as highway robbery and keep on the run[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][166] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And you leave those whom your Lord has created for you to be your mates in the lurch? Nay! You are a people who have transgressed all limits.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][167] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: If you do not stop, O Lot, you shall become one of the expelled.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][168] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lot [/FONT][FONT=&quot]said: I am certainly one of those who abhor your actions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][169] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]O Lord! Deliver me and my family from their wicked deeds.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][170] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So We delivered him and all his family[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][171] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]except an old woman who was left among those who remained behind.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][172] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then We utterly destroyed the rest by an attack by the outsiders who became fed up with their robberies.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][173] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We let them rain down on them the rain of brimstones: and evil was the rain which fell on those who were forewarned.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][174] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely in this story there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to be wise to put their faith in guidance of Allah.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][175] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][176][/FONT][FONT=&quot]The people of Aiykah, also, disbelieved their Messengers.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][177] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Remember Shu‘aibasked them: Have you no conscious?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][178] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rest assured that I am a trustworthy Messenger of Allah to you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][179] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So be mindful of Allah and listen to me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][180] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I do not ask you for any reward for my services, for my reward will be given by the Lord of the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][181] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Give full measure according to rightly set exchange rate and be not of those who cause losses to others by fraud.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][182] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Weigh with even scales[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][183] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and do not cheat your fellow men of what is rightly theirs: nor spread corruption in the land.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][184] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Fear Him Who has created you and the generations before you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][185] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]They replied: You are surely one of those who are insane.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][186] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You are no more than a common man like us and we think that you are lying.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][187] Go bring down upon us the heavenly destruction that you have been threatening us with [/FONT][FONT=&quot]if you are telling the Truth.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][188] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Shu’aib said: My Lord has full knowledge of all that you do.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][189] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]So they disbelieved him, and the torment time arrived by way of revolt and seized them with its gloom, and indeed it was a dreadful time full of torment.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][190] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely in this story there is a great lesson, but most of these people do not learn to become wise and have faith in guidance of Allah.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][191] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fact is that your Lord is the Mighty as well as the Merciful.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][192] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Surely this Qur’an is a revelation from the Lord of the nations.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][193] With it is firmly established the trustworthy personality[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][194] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in your mind so that you may become one of those who are appointed by Allah to warn the people[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][195] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in a plain Arabic language.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][196] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This fact was foretold in the scriptures of the former people.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][197] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is it not sufficient proof for the people that the learned men of the children of Israel knew about it?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][198] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Even so that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]if We had revealed it to a non-Arab,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][199] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and he had recited it to them in fluent Arabic, they would still not have believed in it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][200] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We have thus let doubt settle in the minds of the guilty.[/FONT]

See rest of surah on link below

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...k-(شرک-کیا-ہے)&p=298174&viewfull=1#post298174
 
Last edited:

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Brother I put the word myself to tell that waseela word is in Arabic. There is no addition in translation. The rest of your issue I have answered and you r just wasting our time.

Have you thought about detail of Salat or Namaz in Quran. I want to learn this from you babadeena.

May Allah guide us Ameen.

Now you seem to be completely surrendered and your-made concept of Wasilla liquidated. In your life ahead,
keep my posts as reference. for Salaat or Namaz in Quran make another thread. Now let me concentrate
on "Shirk" and its paramount integral part "worship" and "dua" FROM QURAN, i assure you. and
you have not replied:
Tell me now "Invoking any dead or living person/personality, beside Allah or with Allah, is also
shirk or not", your favoured FRACTION of surah Israh conveys it is?
 
Last edited:

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Now you seem to be completely surrendered and your-made concept of Wasilla liquidated. In your life ahead,
keep my posts as reference. for Salaat or Namaz in Quran make another thread. Now let me concentrate
on "Shirk" and its paramount integral part "worship" and "dua" FROM QURAN, i assure you. and
you have not replied:
Tell me now "Invoking any dead or living person/personality, beside Allah or with Allah, is also
shirk or not", your favoured FRACTION of surah Israh conveys it is?

Making own interprtation dont make you babadeena nauzobillah. Whenever you chalenge me again I will tell you to tell detail of Namaz fromm Quran. Do you read namaz. I am laughing at your jokings.
 

6sman

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Salam,

I think if people had read my post with an open heart and sound mind, this discussion would not have gone thus far. There is an obviously lack of sincerity towards learning, and no shortage of sectarian biases, both cause person's mind to become robotic and halts it's educational process. Unless and until we change our attitudes dear brothers and sisters towards learning and become more sincere to religious and social welfare; debates as such will rag on and on and on ad infinitum, and believe me: not a single benefit shall be gained thereby, except maybe if you're trying to satisfy shaytaan.

May Allaah Ta'aala guide us!
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Ebadaat means, total submission, (2:208) humbleness, (2:45)(21:90) dependence(2:116) (11:6),

compliance of orders (4:58), performing rituals(2:110), being in “servitude” and imploring/invoking
in the state of distress and calamities,(6:63) and expectations in the hope of getting something (7:56)
and expressing thanks and gratitude for getting something.(2:152,172), (6:163) These things lead to
two strong quranic words which are “Ebadah” (Worship) and “Dua” (Invoking)”:

In the above scenario and circumstances, Allah has ordered his creatures to make
recourse towards HIM only. Shirk, therefore, will be if:

a) someone worships anyone except Allah, or with Allah;
b) someone Prays (Calls) anyone except Allah or with Allah.

Example:

A married couple do not have a child. They go to doctors, get their
Treatment, still do not get child. If they:
i) -- Pray to Allah directly that Lord give us a child, it is their Ebaadat;
ii) --- Pray to Allah with the Wasilla of someone, it is shirk;
iii) --- Pray to Baba Chan Chrigh or Giwarveen Sharif, it is shirk;

If Allah bestows them a child and if they:
a) ---Make nawafal of thanks to Almighty Allah, it is their Ebaadat;
b) ----- Distribute food etc to needy for the pleasure of Allah only it is their Ebaadat;
c) ----Go to Mazar of Giwarveen Sharif or Baba Chan Chrigah and project that
They got child due to them, it is Shirk.
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Salam,

I think if people had read my post with an open heart and sound mind, this discussion would not have gone thus far. There is an obviously lack of sincerity towards learning, and no shortage of sectarian biases, both cause person's mind to become robotic and halts it's educational process. Unless and until we change our attitudes dear brothers and sisters towards learning and become more sincere to religious and social welfare; debates as such will rag on and on and on ad infinitum, and believe me: not a single benefit shall be gained thereby, except maybe if you're trying to satisfy shaytaan.

May Allaah Ta'aala guide us!




Wa alaikom as salam,

I think if people had read with an open heart and sound mind, this discussion would not have gone thus far. There is an obviously lack of sincerity towards learning, and no shortage of sectarian biases, both cause person's mind to become robotic and halts it's educational process. Unless and until we change our attitudes dear brothers and sisters towards learning and become more sincere to religious and social welfare; debates as such will rag on and on and on ad infinitum, and believe me: not a single benefit shall be gained thereby, except maybe if you're trying to satisfy shaytaan.

May Allaah Ta'aala guide us!



Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great [2:255]


Notice the word "except" in the above mentioned verse. This verse does not condemn the presence of an intercessor; they just put a condition for the fact of intercession.


That Day, no intercession will benefit except one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word [20:109]

And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand [34:23]


And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except after Allah has permitted to whom He wills and approves [53:26]


He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him with whom He is pleased. And they stand in awe for fear of Him [21:28]


And those whom they invoke instead of Him have no power of intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth and they know [43:86]


And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful [4:64]


There r lot of Hadees for supporting the claim. Tell me you want to know and I will tell.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
FORMS OF SHIRK IN POST-PENTIUM AGE


----Mein panjtaan ka Ghulam hoon; type philosophy;
----Visting shrines and graves to fulfill nazar, and invoking
----Dead there in case of distress and unfavourable circumstances expecting that they will be our remedies;
----Jaloos and Urs/Meelad type things, there people invoke others and
do certain rituals which claim to be their ebaadat.
-----Geerivee Sharif kay katham and bibi bachayan wali kee niaz;
-----Calling anyone like Ya Ali, Ya Nabi, Ya Ghuspak, Ya Hussain, etc. etc.
They can neither hear you, nor respond you, nor hurt you, nor benefit you;
They are Dead and they themselves do not know when they will be raised again;
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
What has come to my mind during this discussion is whether there is any proof in the quran that sajdah to other than allah is actually forbidden.
The verses which tell us do not make sajdah to other than allah eg sun and moon and stars and other things eg idols etc, in all of these places sajdah is used in sense of IBAADAH not in sense it is used for aadam or yusuf. So I shall appreciate any help on this matter.
Could any brother or sister please prove from the quran for me that sajdah of respect is really forbidden for a ghaire khuda?

Sajdah to other than Allah has actuall been forbidden in Quran. Sajida is now integral part of Ebadaat(slaat and Talwaat), People
confuse it with the sajada to Yusuf or Adam and try to invent a new terminology like "sajida -e-respect". Those two incidents
are part of Quranic study to inform the believers what actually happened at that time, but it no where has been granted as
permission to make them as "sajida-e-respect". These are those people whose heart has got disease (3:7) and wish to
twist the narrations.
To understand that Sajida is only to Allah, one has to take into account the "Possessive quality" of words
used in Clear-cut Quranic ayats. like "Lillah, Lahoo, etc"
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ لَا يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيُسَبِّحُونَهُ وَلَهُ يَسْجُدُونَ ۩ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{206**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 7:206] Surely those who are with your Lord are not too proud to serve Him, and they declare His glory and prostrate in humility before Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 7:206] Lo! those who are with thy Lord are not too proud to do Him service, but they praise Him and prostrate before Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 7:206] Those who are near to thy Lord, disdain not to do Him worship: They celebrate His praises, and prostrate before Him[/SIZE]

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ ۚ لَا تَسْجُدُوا لِلشَّمْسِ وَلَا لِلْقَمَرِ وَاسْجُدُوا لِلَّهِ الَّذِي خَلَقَهُنَّ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ إِيَّاهُ تَعْبُدُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{37**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 41:37] And among His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon; do not prostrate to the sun nor to the moon; and prostrate to Allah Who created them, if Him it is that you serve.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 41:37] And of His portents are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon; but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if it is in truth Him Whom ye worship.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 41:37] Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.[/SIZE]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ارْكَعُوا وَاسْجُدُوا وَاعْبُدُوا رَبَّكُمْ وَافْعَلُوا الْخَيْرَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ ۩ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{77**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 22:77] O you who believe! bow down and prostrate yourselves and serve your Lord, and do good that you may succeed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 22:77] O ye who believe! Bow down and prostrate yourselves, and worship your Lord, and do good, that haply ye may prosper.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 22:77] O ye who believe! bow down, prostrate yourselves, and adore your Lord; and do good; that ye may prosper.[/SIZE]

وَالَّذِينَ يَبِيتُونَ لِرَبِّهِمْ سُجَّدًا وَقِيَامًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{64**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 25:64] And they who pass the night prostrating themselves before their Lord and standing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 25:64] And who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 25:64] Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing;[/SIZE]

فَاسْجُدُوا لِلَّهِ وَاعْبُدُوا ۩ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{62**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 53:62] So make obeisance to Allah and serve (Him).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 53:62] Rather prostrate yourselves before Allah and serve Him.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 53:62] But fall ye down in prostration to Allah, and adore (Him)![/SIZE]

There is no room for anyother type of sajida or to anyone except Allah, the Lord of the worlds.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Has Allah granted EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF INTERCESSION, to anyone, from Prophets, Valis, Kutabs etc. etc.
Produce a clear cut Verse from Quran, if you are so Truthful. If there are about six "Mutashabay Ayat"
there will be more than these ayats, clear-cut ayats which mention that there will be no Intercession.
Just hanging the Drum of Intercession in one's neck and beating it at each and every thread is of no
use.
''INTERCESSION WHOLLY AND SOLELY IS THE DISCRETION OF ALLAH, HE MAY OR
MAY NOT GRANT IT TO ANYONE. NOWHERE IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT X,Y,Z HAS
BEEN GRANTED THIS RIGHT, WHETHER ANY PROPHET OR FROM ANGELS OR FROM
ANY OTHER".


Self-attributing this right to anyone on the basis of anything other than Quran,
Torah, and Bible is of no value.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful [4:64]

OK let us take one referred verse of "INTERCESSION PROJECTERS".

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ مَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ رَأَيْتَ الْمُنَافِقِينَ يَصُدُّونَ عَنْكَ صُدُودًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{61**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 4:61] And when it is said to them: Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger, you will see the hypocrites turning away from you with (utter) aversion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 4:61] And when it is said unto them: Come unto that which Allah hath revealed and unto the messenger, thou seest the hypocrites turn from thee with aversion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 4:61] When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger": Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.[/SIZE]
فَكَيْفَ إِذَا أَصَابَتْهُمْ مُصِيبَةٌ بِمَا قَدَّمَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ جَاءُوكَ يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَا إِلَّا إِحْسَانًا وَتَوْفِيقًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{62**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 4:62] But how will it be when misfortune befalls them on account of what their hands have sent before? Then they will come to you swearing by Allah: We did not desire (anything) but good and concord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 4:62] How would it be if a misfortune smote them because of that which their own hands have sent before (them)? Then would they come unto thee, swearing by Allah that they were seeking naught but harmony and kindness.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 4:62] How then, when they are seized by misfortune, because of the deeds which they hands have sent forth? Then their come to thee, swearing by Allah: "We meant no more than good-will and conciliation!"[/SIZE]
أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يَعْلَمُ اللَّهُ مَا فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ فَأَعْرِضْ عَنْهُمْ وَعِظْهُمْ وَقُلْ لَهُمْ فِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَوْلًا بَلِيغًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{63**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 4:63] These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 4:63] Those are they, the secrets of whose hearts Allah knoweth. So oppose them and admonish them, and address them in plain terms about their souls.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 4:63] Those men,-Allah knows what is in their hearts; so keep clear of them, but admonish them, and speak to them a word to reach their very souls.[/SIZE]
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{64**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 4:64] We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah's leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 4:64] We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.[/SIZE]
فَلَا وَرَبِّكَ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّىٰ يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَجِدُوا فِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ حَرَجًا مِمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{65**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 4:65] But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 4:65] But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in truth) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 4:65] But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.[/SIZE]

a) who are people in these verses being addressed or talked about "HYPOCRITES", It is the time when Prophet(PBUH) is
living and among those people. The FRACTION OF VERSES, quoted by INTERCESSION MAFIA, says that if the Hypocrites commited
wrong, they should have come to Rasool and first they(Hypocrites) should have made Astaghfar of their actions to Allah, and
also should have sought the forgiveness of Rasool.......................
b) Hypocrites were being invited towards Quran and they were not accepting it as is evident from the beginning verse.
From where the "INTERCESSION"" came into this. This is the level. Like Blind people just pick the verse and paste it.
Allah may save us from such people who are misleading the people.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: چند سوالات - تمام جوابوں کے نمبر مساوی ہیں

چند سوالات - تمام جوابوں کے نمبر مساوی ہیں

76507_1561058944429_1173962203_31341076_5919973_n.jpg

Cheeko have answer answered your questions
He did not touch giarvehee so let me tell you.
But why not first you tell me that
What is being done in "Giarvehee"
Just to know about your knowledge about this.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
''INTERCESSION WHOLLY AND SOLELY IS THE DISCRETION OF ALLAH, HE MAY OR
MAY NOT GRANT IT TO ANYONE. NOWHERE IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT X,Y,Z HAS
BEEN GRANTED THIS RIGHT, WHETHER ANY PROPHET OR FROM ANGELS OR FROM
ANY OTHER".



1) INTERCESSION WHOLLY AND SOLELY IS THE DISCRETION OF ALLAH
Yes
2) HE MAY OR MAY NOT GRANT IT TO ANYONE
well then Why Allah said "To whom Allah will"
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Has Allah granted EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF INTERCESSION, to anyone, from Prophets, Valis, Kutabs etc. etc.
Produce a clear cut Verse from Quran, if you are so Truthful. If there are about six "Mutashabay Ayat"
there will be more than these ayats, clear-cut ayats which mention that there will be no Intercession.
Just hanging the Drum of Intercession in one's neck and beating it at each and every thread is of no
use.
''INTERCESSION WHOLLY AND SOLELY IS THE DISCRETION OF ALLAH, HE MAY OR
MAY NOT GRANT IT TO ANYONE. NOWHERE IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT X,Y,Z HAS
BEEN GRANTED THIS RIGHT, WHETHER ANY PROPHET OR FROM ANGELS OR FROM
ANY OTHER".


Self-attributing this right to anyone on the basis of anything other than Quran,
Torah, and Bible is of no value.

you did not answer questions of Cheeko
about Namaz from Quran
please do answer

Bcz that is what you are doing it from start
that PROVE from Quran, prove from Quran.

So why not you did it for a simple thing Namaz.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Has Allah granted EXCLUSIVE RIGHT OF INTERCESSION, to anyone, from Prophets, Valis, Kutabs etc. etc.
Produce a clear cut Verse from Quran, if you are so Truthful. If there are about six "Mutashabay Ayat"
there will be more than these ayats, clear-cut ayats which mention that there will be no Intercession.
Just hanging the Drum of Intercession in one's neck and beating it at each and every thread is of no
use.
''INTERCESSION WHOLLY AND SOLELY IS THE DISCRETION OF ALLAH, HE MAY OR
MAY NOT GRANT IT TO ANYONE. NOWHERE IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN THAT X,Y,Z HAS
BEEN GRANTED THIS RIGHT, WHETHER ANY PROPHET OR FROM ANGELS OR FROM
ANY OTHER".


Self-attributing this right to anyone on the basis of anything other than Quran,
Torah, and Bible is of no value.

about Intercession etc..
Well Allah said Whom Allah wills
then
I can not think that Allah will not Allow Muhammad SW for that.
 

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