Good-Bye Pakistan: I have decided to leave

[Hussain1967]

Two things

1. There is only one Islam and there is only one type of Muslim. Educate yourself. Every muslim is a fundamentalist. There is no liberal or fundamentalist Muslim, there is only one Muslim. You follow the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) teachings according to our Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) taught us and you're a Muslim. What in the hell is a fundementalist muslim or liberal muslim, who the hell is anyone to follow Islam in anyway except what the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) has taught us. I don't think you should run away from a Muslim country if you've already eaten the Islamophobic propaganda and digested it. I suggest learning more about Islam instead.

2. Don't you dare compare the highest morality of our Sahabas(R.A) with this pathetic SC judges. How dare you compare their(R.A) actions to these corrupt judges. Nawaz Sharif and Zardari are roaming free because of these judges. Astaghfirullah. There are theories about why she was freed and one of the theory is because of international pressure. Sahabas (R.A) feared Allah and Allah alone and followed Prophet Muhammad(SAWW) teachings, they never feared international pressure or pleasing someone else than Allah.

The incidents you quoted are examples of the true justice and how unshakable they were on morality. They treated the poor, the rich, the powerful equally.

Nobody in Pakistan would say that Pakistan has justice and everyone is a victim of judiciary and injustice is everywhere.

Feel free to fly away, i am doing it too soon InshaAllah but my reason is because of the judiciary. I don't want to live in a country where there is no justice, where if you've money then law is by your side and if you're poor then law is against your side. Where if a criminal is released then the excuse is technicalities even though a kid and the judges themselves know they're releasing criminals.

I wouldn't reply to point#1 because discussion will go in other direction. I wouldn't say that you should educate yourself. But, please don't threat anyone.(words like how dare you). This is my advice for you b/c you too want to go abroad, albeit for different reasons.

Regarding point #2, my reply is that if Judges were Sahaaba or Tabaeen in early times, the Awaam were Sahaaba or Tabaeen too. There was hardly any concept of false testimony, false accusations at time. So,if today's judges are flawed, today's public (that includes Scholars as well) is flawed too at various levels.

 

[Vitamin_C]

You were the guy who tried to show me miracles of Islam by showing me a verse regarding embryology and then you said how can some one have known that 1400 years ago.

Turned out that verse was word to word copy of Greek embryology which was written 1200 years before Muhammad and it was completely wrong.

You dating a whore doesn't prove anything.

There are a lot of idiots in this world and every country has a fair share of it. If those idiots were to force their opinion upon us and they were allowed then the world would've stopped existing.

Your knowledge also seems to be based on your experience with Christians and Jews which aren't role models for anything and their books are altered by humans. Even i would agree that they are living in their own reality believing in some really strange stuff such as the trinity or being born with sin etc.

You have refused the miracles of Holy Quran and made a video game for yourself playing based on your own rules. But that doesn't make it true.

I am still waiting for your rebuttal of the Holy Quran challenge. How can you NOT defeat the challenge of a 1400 year old book i wonder if you're so smart.

 

[Hussain1967]

So you are completely denying the phenomena of targeted operation based on military intelligence ISI. If a state use its resources and powers firmly and in the right direction,people like khadim would have no feet to stand and If you get rid of Khadim's kind of characters,rest would have their lessons otherwise the stater should just surrender. Lets face it,army has double standards and different rules for different individuals depending on their language and geography.
By the way who has pumped and encouraged Khadim against pmln govt? Army.who was the founder of Siphah Sihaba or Lashkare Jangvi? Army. Who was the founder of Altaf hussain and mqm to weaken ppp in sindh? Army. Who is the guardian of Hafiz Saeed? Army. and i can give you thousands of examples about the mess which army has made in Pakistan in the name of religion and political disability. Who has milled Mumtaz Bhuttu? Amry. Who had killed Zulfiqar ali Bhuttu? Army. My friend lets not go there my because if i opened up proper about the Amry's adventures in Pak,next time i will be arrested at Islamabad airport and my family would never see me again. It is all a dirty game where common and innocent people are the victims.

You have a point here, man.

 

[Zamaray Khan]

You have a point here, man.

Thanks bro.
I am glad you made the right decision. An educated and sensible person like you would suffocate and wasted in the Pakistani society.

 

[Vitamin_C]

At the end of the day we are all human beings and the world is your country. Go to a country that supports the values that you hold. I always thought that unjustified pride, guilt and patriotism is irrational. We never chose the country/religion/skin/political affiliation we were born in but I don't understand why we have to defend something that we never chose.

When I was growing up I realized in my teenage years that these countries in Middle East do not support my values, I value freedom in the pursuit of happiness, freedom of expression/speech, equality for everyone regardless of gender, sexual orientation, religion, cast or creed. If you go to Canada no one cares what your religion is, every one is busy doing their thing and pursuing their dreams. Lying and backbiting is frowned upon and everyone is courteous.

I didn't chose America because they also have a religion problem. Europe is better than America but I do not like the direction they are headed in. Especially the decision ECHR gave on the blasphemy case last week.

You have a point here, man.

 

[منتظر]

صحیح کہا آپ نے منتظر بھائی، یہ فتنہ خوارج سے زیادہ خطرناک ہے. ابھی تو مولویوں نے صرف ٹریلر دکھایا ہے اور ریاست گٹھنوں کہ بل جھک گئی .اس فتنے پر آج ہم قابو بھی پالیں تو جو گند انہوں نے ہماری عوام کہ ذہنوں میں گھولا ہے اس کہ اثرات کئی دہائیوں تک رہینگے

سیم بھائی ابھی ابھی اے ار واے پر دیکھا ہے کے سات اہلکاروں کو ڈی ایس پی سمیت انہوں نے تشدد کا نشانہ بنایا حکومت وقت ہو یا آرمی ان کو چاہیے ہے کے ان کو کرش کر دیں ورنہ یہ بہت بڑا وبال جان بن جائیں گے جب فوج قبائلی علاقوں میں آپریشن کرتی رہی ہے تو ادھر کیوں نہیں یہ ذہنی طور پر نا بالغ شخص اہلسنت کا چہرہ داغ دار کر رہا ہے ​

 

[Waqas85]

i wanted to add my story guyz... also i was working in Dubai having good job in AVIS.. last March i decided to quite my job and left for pakistan. while my stay in UAE nearly 5 years i missed alot of thing family,friends, (even though i am living their with my family). but still missed a lot of thing about my pak coz i m from Lahore and lahori nature always love to enjoy with friends ... saturday night cricket etc etc.... now almost 7 months i m moved back in pakistan but doing Stock trading in US stock market ... making reasonable income .. apart from that planning to learn chinese to take benefit being part of CPEC country.
I will only advise you guyz dont be so much disappointed due to 1-2 incident you may face such kind of incident even in Europe also. but yes i agree while watching people burning someone's car,shop etc this is bulllshit. make sure we have very limited literature rate. you can not expect too much from people. just live your life ... this country is being running like this since long and did not change untill now.. be it urself...


make sure homophobia is worst decease and i faced the alot....

 

[منتظر]

Khadim is the product of Army. If Army can do operation against ttp in tribal area than why not against terrorist khadim army is not doing who is sitting in Lahore and threatening the whole govt,army and judges. Why cant army do operation against terrorist like khadim,who has brain washed mumtaz qadri and made him kill Governor Punjab. Army needs to sort itself our and it needs to stop making these Jahadi organisation who are haunting the whole Pak.

حکومت اب نہیں تو پھر یہ بھی وہی حال کریں گے سٹیٹ کا بلکے ان سے بھی بد تر ثابت ہوں گے یہ لوگ کیوں کے یہ شہروں میں بیٹھے ہیں ان لوگوں کو ابھی روکنا آسان ہے ورنہ یہ نفرت بہت زیادہ پھیل جاے گی ​

 

[Steyn]

You were the guy who tried to show me miracles of Islam by showing me a verse regarding embryology and then you said how can some one have known that 1400 years ago.

Turned out that verse was word to word copy of Greek embryology which was written 1200 years before Muhammad and it was completely wrong.

Greeks never called embryo a leech which is more accurate to current science's knowledge. Greeks never called embryo a hanging thing. Their order was completely different and wrong. You failed to show how Islam was wrong about embryology and threw red herrings.

Also your argument is the most dumb i have ever seen. Just because some knowledge that is true is included in Holy Quran doesn't mean it was copied. Even if we were to believe you, how come Prophet Muhammad(SAWW) copied the truth from greek and discounted all bullshit? The greeks believed that earth was flat LMAO. But Holy Quran gets it right.

You also run away from the Holy Quran's challenge and still are. That is the challenge of Holy Quran not mine.

You are also doing the things every atheist is guilty of. When he can't explain something and gets stuck, he runs away and find something else.

The Holy Quran says that the unbelievers are blind, unable to hear and their hearts are sealed. By Allah, arguing with you every second reminds me of that verse.

If a kid who doesn't know anything and his mind free of all bias were to shown these miracles, he would accept it. But you have bias and you follow Satan so you run and throw red herrings or do stupid shit.

 

[منتظر]

Yeah I have a few friends who live there.... Not a bad place. I am still very used to Mississauga though and don't see much of a problem with it.

مجھے تو اب ادھر بھی بہت رش لگتا ہے ٹورنٹو کی طرح خیر جدھر بندہ رہتا ہے وہ اس کو بہتر جانتا ہے مجھے تو اپنا گاؤں سسکچوان بہتر لگتا ہے ان شہروں سے ​

 

[Cyber_Security]

In all the Hadiths that you quoted above, Prophet (PBUH) himself was there to decide. He was Chief Justice as well. After the departure of Prophet(PBUH), we need investigations and judges to decide on every matter including the matter of blasphemy. We have three-tier judicial system. No one can be hanged without passing through all tiers. If you don't accept decision of the highest court, you commit sedition and you very well know the punishment of sedition. No Scholar can hand-over punishment on any matter including the matter of Blasphemy.

You did not get my point at all.
In both of the Hadees I mentioned, the person witnessing the bilasphamy killed the blasphemer before telling Prophet Muhammad. He was informed after the murder had taken place. With your logic the person who killed his wife should have gone to prophet Muhammad first. Then should have said, Prophet Muhammad, you are the judge, my wife is insulting you. Should I kill her ? But he didn't wait for the judge. He made the decision then and there.
You dont go to the court after killing someone to get justice. you go to the court to decide if the accused had committed the crime or to find out if the accused is guilty. But in the blasphemy Prophet muhammad never asked these two men that they should have come to him first. Or he could have said I am the judge and I never gave you permission to kill your wife. Or who gave you permission to kill your wife. My point is in blasphemy court comes after the blasphemer's murder.

 

[بگ باس]

تیری مہربانی پائی۔۔۔ چھیتی جا تے جاندے ہوئے بووا بند کردا جائیں نہی تے کسی ہور نوں اٹھنا پئیے گا

 

[Hussain1967]

You did not get my point at all.
In both of the Hadees I mentioned, the person witnessing the bilasphamy killed the blasphemer before telling Prophet Muhammad. He was informed after the murder had taken place. With your logic the person who killed his wife should have gone to prophet Muhammad first. Then should have said, Prophet Muhammad, you are the judge, my wife is insulting you. Should I kill her ? But he didn't wait for the judge. He made the decision then and there.
You dont go to the court after killing someone to get justice. you go to the court to decide if the accused had committed the crime or to find out if the accused is guilty. But in the blasphemy Prophet muhammad never asked these two men that they should have come to him first. Or he could have said I am the judge and I never gave you permission to kill your wife. Or who gave you permission to kill your wife. My point is in blasphemy court comes after the blasphemer's murder.

Here again, Prophet himself was there. Don't miss this point. Secondly, it was Prophet's time when issues of false accusations and false testimony had not arisen. All people were Sahaabas who were groomed by Prophet himself.

We have a full judicial system in place. Either you follow it or not. It is not possible that you follow it partly and disobey it partly. In current Pakistan, I can never trust anybody accusing anyone of blasphemy unless due process of law is not complete. If you allow this decision-making by people themselves, I can guarantee you that Brelvis will kill Wahabis by terming them as Gustakh-e-Rasool and Wahabis will kill Brelvis by terming them as Mushrik. BTW, I have listened many speeches where they call each other Gustakh-e-Rasool and Mushrik.

 

[c'estmoi]

At the end of the day we are all human beings and the world is your country. Go to a country that supports the values that you hold. I always thought that unjustified pride, guilt and patriotism is irrational. We never chose the country/religion/skin/political affiliation we were born in but I don't understand why we have to defend something that we never chose.

When I was growing up I realized in my teenage years that these countries in Middle East do not support my values, I value freedom in the pursuit of happiness, freedom of expression/speech, equality for everyone regardless of gender, sexual orientation, religion, cast or creed. If you go to Canada no one cares what your religion is, every one is busy doing their thing and pursuing their dreams. Lying and backbiting is frowned upon and everyone is courteous.

I didn't chose America because they also have a religion problem. Europe is better than America but I do not like the direction they are headed in. Especially the decision ECHR gave on the blasphemy case last week.

Good post...but I wanna mention that most people in Pakistan if given the opportunity would opt for those same good values you described. The problem is that majority in Pakistan have never seen or experienced what freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom in general looks like so how can they even think about it. Lack of proper education does not help either. Majority is pressed under economic issues which is the root cause of many issues as you know. Religious sentiments work wonder on people who are frustrated. If given visas, hardly anyone would say no. Majority of those who come to western countries become very law abiding and peaceful citizen while practicing their own faith.

 

[Humi]

مجھے تو اب ادھر بھی بہت رش لگتا ہے ٹورنٹو کی طرح خیر جدھر بندہ رہتا ہے وہ اس کو بہتر جانتا ہے مجھے تو اپنا گاؤں سسکچوان بہتر لگتا ہے ان شہروں سے ​

Well currently I am living near square one. I dont find it to be too bad but I have always lived in cities so yes, it's probably about what you are used to as well...

 

[Vitamin_C]

Your wrong here. There were rumours that Ayesha has another lover. One night when she was traveling in Muhammad's caravan she disappeared from the caravan and came back later at night. When asked where she went she said she dropped a piece of jewelry and went back to get it. People started spreading rumours that she went to meet her lover. This is where Muhammad made a law that you require 4 male witness to prove rape/adultery. But for blasphemy there is no such condition. In case of blasphemy Muhammad allowed ordinary people to be judge jury and executioner without requiring evidence or testimony.

Here again, Prophet himself was there. Don't miss this point. Secondly, it was Prophet's time when issues of false accusations and false testimony had not arisen. All people were Sahaabas who were groomed by Prophet himself.

 

[منتظر]

Well currently I am living near square one. I dont find it to be too bad but I have always lived in cities so yes, it's probably about what you are used to as well...

میں بھی ہمیشہ بڑے شہروں میں ہی رہا ہوں جیسا کے کراچی ٹورنٹو پر جب اس چھوٹے علاقے میں رہا تو زندگی کا صحیح لطف لیا اب برے شہروں میں اڈجسٹ کرتے ہوے دقت ہے جس جگہ آپ رہتی ہیں وہ بھی بہت رش کا علاقہ ہے بات وہی ہے کے بندہ عادی ہو جاتا ہے

 

[farooqak]

I thought hair transplant was permanent....:sneaky:

if it was permanent, NS would have same hair as SS

 

[angryoldman]

Big Brother! West is much more savage than us!

I always compare pakistan with west like a jugle and zoo life. West is zoo life where u have all the facilities but unseen cage. In pakistan its is jungle life u have to deal all the threats but u r free 100% freedom and premier citizen.

 

[Steyn]

Your wrong here. There were rumours that Ayesha has another lover. One night when she was traveling in Muhammad's caravan she disappeared from the caravan and came back later at night. When asked where she went she said she dropped a piece of jewelry and went back to get it. People started spreading rumours that she went to meet her lover. This is where Muhammad made a law that you require 4 male witness to prove rape/adultery. But for blasphemy there is no such condition. In case of blasphemy Muhammad allowed ordinary people to be judge jury and executioner without requiring evidence or testimony.

Please refrain from commenting on Islam.

You have proven your ignorance more than once. This incidence is one of the many examples of the hatred and lies people wanted to attribute to Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) and surprise surprise like flies stick to shit, enemies of Islam stick to the side of the people who were defaming Hazrat Ayesha(R.A) despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary..

Prophet Muhammad(SAWW) never made any law from himself. All laws and all of his life was spent according to divine will. If you are going to comment on Islam, please i suggest respect our beliefs and get it right. I understand your bias will not allow you to but you can try.

I don't understand why you're acting like an expert on Islam when you're an atheist and preaching Muslims what Prophet Muhammad(SAWW) did and did not. It's the same as me telling Jews how to live their life and what their religion teaches them.

The scholars are divided on the blasphemy issue and i don't think any party is wrong. Prophet Muhammad(SAWW) never ordered the killing of blasphemers, if He(SAWW) had done that then Islam would have died very quickly because so many great Sahabas(R.A) were nemesis not enemies of Islam. But He(SAWW) didn't punish anyone who shut the mouth of the most vile creatures by their own relatives because they (R.A) couldn't bear it. Those weren't characters like Asia bibi but consistent nemesis of Islam whose hatred and Islam enmity had reached extreme highs and their mission in life was to defame the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) and kill the light of Islam forever.

I am of the view that we should show tolerance and try to avoid inciting them and convince them towards Islam. After all, they love Jesus (A.S) and we love Jesus(A.S) and their books mentions Prophet Muhammad(SAWW). Isn't it better that they become Muslims and be saved from eternal hellfire?. What do we have to lose but they have to lose everything and just how their soul(the soul of a kafir) is taken by Izrael(A.S) will make you cry from fear.

But we're to take lessons from Prophet(SAWW) life and if someone shuts up these extreme enemies of Islam who can't mind their own business, i wouldn't call it wrong. After all, Americans are bombing innocents in Afghanistan and nobody thinks its wrong, it shouldn't be a third world war if a hate monger is killed. Still, patience and tolerance and just ignore them.

I don't think Khadim Rizvi is wrong or the Molanas, anyone who understands and fears Allah will think twice before calling the religious leaders names. They are hurting and their hurt is painted in the wrong way. I am sure if it was some Muslim girl who spoke in favor of Holocaust, the whole world would've called her a terrorist and called for her death.

This world is unfair to Muslims in today's age and the last thing Muslims need to do is to listen to Islamophobes on how we should run our small Islamic country.