To the youth, Why should you question your religion???

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Another problem is that you don't know what other person accepts a valid source because he is Sunni, Shia, Wahabi etc after you have gone through different sources, and at the end, this person does not accept "Hadis" as a valid source.
Well that's the crux of the problem right there isn't it. You can ask anyone who claims to be Muslim that the only one true word of God is the Quran and they will reply in the affirmative but then they follow "different sources" as you right said and what does that tell you, and the Quran itself forbids sects of any kind, so its as easy as 1+1 that the majority of Muslims today do not actually follow the actual Islam, but rather a Mohammadan religion, guess this is why the early westerners who came in contact with Muslims called them Mohammadans rather than Muslims, because they saw Mohammad worship rather than Allah worship. But even you must know, if you want to find out about something you go to its source and not second hand opinion or hearsay.

So if you or anyone else read only the Quran from a fresh start, without any of this mumbo jumbo attached to it, with no preconceived notions and no outside sources trying to "explain it". If nothing else you will then at the very least understand what the real Islam is about, even if you don't believe in it. And most important of all you'll see 95% of what passes of Islam today doesn't even exist in the Quran, from 5 pillars of Islam, to the shahada, to these so called 5 daily prayers, no stoning of adulterers, no marrying of children, no requirement for women to dress like ninjas, no beards for men, no 72 virgins, no million wives of Mohammad, no death for apostasy, no throwing off roofs for homosexuals basically anything negative you have heard or anything that didn't fit right in your conscious isn't there. The Quran is devoid of all these things.
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
This is technically incorrect. for reference: https://www.quora.com/What-is-speci...escription-of-human-embryological-development
disclaimer: I have not fact checked this in detail. but from the surface seems legit to me.

Yes its true, that till now AI is not as capable of human emotion and intellect. maybe they will never be as good as humans. but that is yet to be seen. there are many unsolved mystries in the world/galaxy.
Just because AI is not as smart as a child is no explaination for there being a god. (there may well be a god, but i am yet to meet him)


will definately read it. Thank you



I appricaite that that you believe in God and his holy book.
I am personally not against Islam, rather all religions. having said that, if any religion helps anyone do good in this world. I think they are good religious people. and I support their beliefs.


I like to take control of my own doings and contiousness. I (think) do good because of empathy. not because of a supernatural being.

I am well aware that statistically its improbable that of the 1.5billion muslims, I am the smartest one who can challege islam, so i am open to ideas. I consider myself a student and if I am presented evidence that I can not truely refute I will become a believer but till then. I am out, you know how its written, 'hum nay in kay dilon pay mohar laga di hay'

lovely talking to you my friend. may your God bless you.

Peace be upon you too, Thank you for a very kind and thoughtful reply.

First regarding " unkay dilo pr muhar laga di ha " , these verses are about people among whom the prophet was sent and they were furious enemies of the prophet and used to mock the verses of Quran and insult the Prophet. People like you and me who are respectfully discussing the truth and trying to make ourselves through reason and thinking accept a truth of the verses are not the respondent of that ayat of Quran. Infact Quran tells us in an ayat to form a group of 2 people and then argue and reason about the message and verses of Quran and that is exactly what we are doing .

Also you would find it interesting that the word " Israel " who was prophet Yaqoob and now Jews are bani Israel, i.e his progeny. That word israel in Hebrew means "one who wrestles with God". There is a deep meaning to this title , you and me know that Jews are the most intelligent people with about more then 20 percent Noble prizes and many other intellectual accomplishments. So in my view, a person who believes in God is constantly wrestling with God. Also you know the Prophet Ibrahim AS in Quran asks God to show him how will he resurrect people after their death and God asks him that '' do you Ibrahim not believe in me'' but Ibrahim says I believe but I want to make my heart firm. So God tells him to takes birds and put pieces of the birds apart on different mountains and call them, and the birds then resurrect and comeback to ibrahim. Here the story is not important, the important thing is even a Prophet Ibrahim the one who is the father of all religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is asking God to show him proof of resurrection. So it is not a bad thing to ask God to show you a sign or a proof. God told in Quran that this book contains the signs, so some would find the signs in the book. other would find in daily life and experiences and other ways. The main thing is to keep asking God.


Regarding embryology I will give a detailed answer. I was more focusing on stem cells aspect of the equation ( I.e how they are coordinating and some form the eyes, other form the heart, other go-to make the brain and connections in neurons etc, this is called epigenetics ) and less on the phases of the development of the embryos, which the Quora question you tagged is discussing.



For the proof that the book of Quran is different from other books, please read https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/i..._the_linguistic_miracle_linguisticmiracle.pdf
And see this whole series of Quranic gems by Dr. Fadel Saleh As-Samarrai
The doctor is an expert in arabic literature and language, he was an atheist and did not believe in Quran and God. He is an Iraqi Arab, but after linguistic study of Quran, he reached the conclusion that this book can not be work of a man.


You are 90 percent correct that Islam as being similar to Christianity and judiasim. Because Islam as Quran tells the Prophet came to correct Christianity and judiasim. Both religion were Islam previously but were corrupted by people who mixed wrong things in them and additions in books which were not the word of God. Quran tells the prophet that he should follow in the path of Ibrahim AS, and Ibrahim as you know is the father of islam ...........


The AI thing shows uniqueness of human intelligence and intellect. Where does this uniqueness comes from, we have to think about it, why are we the only intelligent species and not like others i.e chimpanzees and whales, and elephants ( whales and elephants have bigger brains then us ) ....... Please see the discussions of the website edge.org you would love them
My point is that, top people are baffled by the abilities of human being, and God in the Quran is putting trust on the abilities of human being and on our intellect, otherwise Quran would say we should blindly follow the prophet and shut up. But no Quran is full of the verse of pondering, reflecting, thinking deeply, using intellect. God tells us in Quran that he taught knowledge using the pen. Hmm the pen, wait till i start on the neuroscience of writing and its effects on intelligence. God tells us in Quran he taught man language, hmm language, just read noam chomsky and steven pinker on language. All these experts are baffled by how on earth humans have language. Edge.org people discuss language a lot, you will like the discussion and food for thought.



I am also deeply interested in aerospace and space. I would say that the problem with Bernoulli explanation is that it computes the results mathematically but we need physical explanations. Richard Feynman the famous physicist when asked about quantum theory he said until we do not have the mental physical picture, we do not understand the thing ...... In my view the physical explanation ( with mathematics you can pass an elephant through a needle ) of the lift generated on the flying wing is still unsolved .......



Also regarding being humbled because of being conditioned. See i am not conditioned, I am a very unruly person, but i do recognize and experience the humbleness when i hear and read Quran . I ponder on many verses which i do not understand and do not accept the views of the other people on those verses. I only trust my own conviction regarding a matter but i wait and also weigh the evidence constantly and change my structure of reasoning if evidence goes against it. These days i am very puzzled by a verse of Quran which says this book is better then all of which people gather, meaning wealth and knowledge and power etc etc .... So the process of wrestling continues


Now my favorite topic of wormholes and time travel, I agree that james webb was not inspired by the holy book. But if you read about Newton he was so much into the holy books, alchemy and occult studies and also believed in One God, but hide his believes because of the church. Newton solved ( Einstein made bigger advance ) the mystery of motion of planets and motion of heavenly bodies. Sky, stars, sun and moon are discussed in Quran and do inspire people although i would admit now it is not that way but before full glory of science, these verses did inspire people to do calculations and think about heaven. Before light pollution, sky was a place of wonder. And in Quran we find so many amazing facts about heavens which science yet has not even dreamed about, so i think this does inspire many people and at least me to work on those aspects such as teleportation which is clearly discussed in Quran and think about them from physical principles we know today and might discover to achieve such a phenomenon. About jinn, i think you should read about jack parsons who was a top rocket scientist and his life , and read in CIA archives declassified about what is going on in space ); , read the book ufo and nukes by Robert Hastings etc ...... these beings manifest themselves differently for different cultures, i am giving you a modern reading on them, especially read the messengers of deception and other books of Jacques vallee .
 
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Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Peace be upon you too, Thank you for a very kind and thoughtful reply.

First regarding " unkay dilo pr muhar laga di ha " , these verses are about people among whom the prophet was sent and they were furious enemies of the prophet and used to mock the verses of Quran and insult the Prophet. People like you and me who are respectfully discussing the truth and trying to make ourselves through reason and thinking accept a truth of the verses are not the respondent of that ayat of Quran. Infact Quran tells us in an ayat to form a group of 2 people and then argue and reason about the message and verses of Quran and that is exactly what we are doing .

Also you would find it interesting that the word " Israel " who was prophet Yaqoob and now Jews are bani Israel, i.e his progeny. That word israel in Hebrew means "one who wrestles with God". There is a deep meaning to this title , you and me know that Jews are the most intelligent people with about more then 20 percent Noble prizes and many other intellectual accomplishments. So in my view, a person who believes in God is constantly wrestling with God. Also you know the Prophet Ibrahim AS in Quran asks God to show him how will he resurrect people after death and God asks him that do you Ibrahim not believe in me, but Ibrahim says I believe but I want to make heart firm, so God tells him to takes birds and put pieces of the birds apart on different mountains and call them, and the birds then resurrect and comeback to ibrahim, here the story is not important the important thing is even a Prophet Ibrahim the one who is the father of all religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is asking God to show him proof of resurrection. So it is not a bad thing to ask God to show you a sign or a proof. God told in Quran that this book contains the signs so, some would find the signs in the book, other would find in daily life and experiences and otherways. The main thing is to keep asking God.

Regarding embryology I will give a detailed answer. I was more focusing on stem cells aspect of the equation ( I.e how they are coordinating and some form the eyes, other form the heart, other go-to make the brain and connections in neurons etc this is called epigenetics ) and less on the phases of the development of the embryos, which the Quora question you tagged is discussing.

For the proof that the book of Quran is different from other books, please read https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/i..._the_linguistic_miracle_linguisticmiracle.pdf

And see this whole series of Quranic gems by Dr. Fadel Saleh As-Samarrai
The doctor is an expert in arabic literature and language, he was an atheist and did not belive in Quran and God and is an iraqi arab, but after linguistic study of Quran, he reached the conclusion that this book can not be work of a man.

You are 90 percent correct that Islam as being similar to Christianity and judiasim. Because Islam as Quran tells the Prophet came to correct Christianity and judiasim, both religion were Islam previously but were corrupted by people who mixed wrong things in them and additions in books which were not the word of God. Quran tells the prophet that he should follow in the path of Ibrahim AS, and Ibrahim as you know is the father of islam ...........


The AI thing shows uniqueness of human intelligence and intellect. Where does this uniqueness comes from, we have to think about it, why are we the only intelligent species not others like chimpanzees and whales, and elephants ( whales and elephants have bigger brains then us ) ....... Please see the discussions of the website edge.org you would love them
My point is that, top people are baffled by the abilities of human being, and God is putting trust in Quran on the abilities of human being in our intellect, otherwise Quran would say we should blindly follow the prophet and shut up. But no Quran is full of the verse of pondering, reflecting, thinking deeply, using intellect. God tells us in Quran he taught knowledge using the pen. Hmm the pen, wait till i start on the neuroscience of writing and its effects on intelligence. God tells us he taught man language, hmm language, just read noam chomsky and steven pinker on language, all these experts are baffled by how on earth human have language. Edge.org people discuss language a lot, you will like the discussion and food for thought.


I am also deeply interested in aerospace and space. I would say that the problem with Bernoulli explanation is that it computes the results mathematically but we need physical explanations. Richard Feynman the famous physicist when asked about quantum theory he said until we do not have the mental physical picture, we do not understand the thing ...... In my view the physical explanation ( with mathematics you can pass an elephant through a needle ) of the lift generated on the flying wing is still unsolved .......



Also regarding being humbled because of being conditioned. See i am not conditioned, I am a very unruly person, but i do recognize and experience the humbleness when i hear and read Quran . I ponder on many verses which i do not understand and do not accept the views of the other people on those verses. I only trust my own conviction regarding a matter but i wait and weight the evidence constantly and change my structure of reasoning if evidence goes against it. These days i am very puzzled by a verse of Quran which says this book is better then all of which people gather, meaning wealth and knowledge and power etc etc .... So the process of wrestling continues


Now my favorite topic of wormholes and time travel, I agree that james webb was not inspired by the holy book. But if you read about Newton he was so much into the holy books, alchemy and occult studies and also believed in One God, but hide his believes because of the church. Newton solved ( Einstein made bigger advance ) the mystery of motion of planets and motion of heavenly bodies. Sky, stars, sun and moon are discussed in Quran and do inspire people although i would admit now it is not that way but previously as a people before full glory of science, these verses did inspire people to do calculations and think about heaven. Before light pollution, sky was a place of wonder. And in Quran we find so many amazing facts about heavens which science yet has not even dreamed about, so i think this does inspire many people and at least me to work on those aspects such as teleportation which is clearly discussed in Quran and think about from physical principles we know today and might discover to achieve such a phenomenon. About jinn, i think you should read about jack parsons who was a top rocket scientist and his life , and read in CIA archives declassified about what is going on in space ); , read the book ufo and nukes by Robert Hastings etc ......
Any particular reason you quoted me in this post?
 

Rambler

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
mistake, i was replying to other comment but i may have quoted your comment, i removed it though

You are filling pages with useless rubbish - Man go and do your job. This is more of a problem with religion and Muslims in particular. Ask them to listen to a Mullah, enter into useless debates or free advice and they have nothing better to do in the world but when it comes to actually doing something in the real world the sob get diarrhoea.
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
Thanks for that dear.
Actually, it is a pretty reasonable explanation for the verse.
But as you might already know, the more assumptions we add to an equation the more chances of inaccurate results. What I mean by that is we definitely had an explanation of that verse 200 years ago before the invent of string theory, and that must be also a justifiable one as well (like arguments in favour of flat earth looked more logical a few centuries ago than now). As you know science is continuously evolving and we are getting better at understanding things than ever before I am pretty sure we will have a more accurate answer after few more centuries. So, the question arises if it is right to translate the verses of a Holy Book that has an eternal impact with limited knowledge we have at present within a specific window of time. Or our future generations will see us as flat earthers?

I agree with your points, but also note that if God selected Quran as a proof for the ages, then it must contain sufficient proof for all ages. Initial respondents of the Quran, the Arabs were puzzled by the linguistic beauty of the Quran and its message.

In generalization if Quran asks its audience to think on the creation of human being, then a person at that time also can think about those arguments, now in current age of science, we can see the whole process of creation of a human being and more deeply think about the arguments of the Quran and our current knowledge.


The challenge is to show a mistake in any arguments of the Quran, be it about a scientific phenomena or about language and logic.You are right adding variables can explain many things and we only select those equations which are maximally compact. If a person tells us that he has definite proof that their is nothing like 7 skies, then we would examine his proofs and if he is right then there are two options for us, either what we understood about that statement of Quran is wrong or that statement of Quran is wrong itself. Both parties can then decide which is true ......
 
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KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
Dr Adam ,AliSher, KhanWarrior
Thanks for your replies.

I think, i have raised logical questions, which any thinking human would have in his mind, without disrespecting islam/Prophet, (I may not believe in it but i do understand the sensitivity).

This post was aimed to get people thinking and trying to find answers themselves, they may or may not arrive at the same conclusion as myself and who knows, they may become more attached to islam. It was not to start a tit-far-tat comments fight. (I have been through this in the last few months), therefore i am not going to reply to any of the comments here.

For someone, changing religion does not happen just after reading one post, and trying to convince anyone is futile. Because the starting position of many Muslims is baised and their main aim is to defend Islam. The replies/excuses given are ridiculous to have any meaningful discussion.

e.g. Regarding 72 virgins, someone replied that "Women do not desire sex" 🤔😁😁
I don't know about this person's life experience, but that's definitely not the case.

Another reply to Hazrat Aisha's age was, if she was raped, then it's not possible for someone to become a hafiz 🙄🙄, which is ridiculous, because child rape/sodomy is probably more common in religious madrasas/mosques than normal life in Pakistan.

Another problem is that you don't know what other person accepts a valid source because he is Sunni, Shia, Wahabi etc after you have gone through different sources, and at the end, this person does not accept "Hadis" as a valid source.

Since i left Islam, i am more happy and more satisfied with my life, i have more
empathy towards other humans. I have a better understanding of life and have a completely different way of looking at things.

Even if you think logically, you are not doing justice to the Spirit of truth ...

We call you to find mistakes in Quran or ask questions about arguments in Quran. You keep focusing on the stories in history books. Yes, you are free to do it, but then you are not talking to us who focus on Quran, but those who focus on stories. If you are content on that then you should also remember the others who are not content on stories.
 

Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
Even if you think logically, you are not doing justice to the Spirit of truth ...

We call you to find mistakes in Quran or ask questions about arguments in Quran. You keep focusing on the stories in history books. Yes, you are free to do it, but then you are not talking to us who focus on Quran, but those who focus on stories. If you are content on that then you should also remember the others who are not content on stories.

For many Muslims, this thing that the Quran is perfect, Islam is the religion of GOD etc
is rubbed into their thinking that they can't even imagine that it could be wrong. That's what i call a biased starting point.

Let's just leave Islam on the side and start from a neutral position about a "fictional religion" it could be any cult religion in America, Now, when you study about it or watch any video, you find out, this priest is telling his follower something else but it his actions are different and he has 10 or 14 wives (it does not really matter once he has more than 4),if someone asks you to adopt this religion, i do not think you will be willing to accept that religion. Remember, women are one of three things, most of the conflict takes place. Even in animals, they will die for a mating with the female.

2- Regarding the Quran, it was not written until some time after the death of the prophet, there are different time periods. It was in people's memory for 23 years while it was revealed to the prophet, approximately 18 years death of the prophet, Zabar Zair, pesh was added because people were reading it incorrectly.

Now thinking logically,. what is the probability that, over the 23 years before the prophet's death, and 18 years after his death, there was not a single mistake, especially when you don't have anything to compare against it.

Even if you tell someone a simple story, after fifty years, when it passes on from one person to another, it changes a little bit, let alone a book as big as the Quran. Without anything written, it is bound to change.

My reason for the post was, to make think, "hang on, what practice, could there be any chance, its all man-made up"
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
For many Muslims, this thing that the Quran is perfect, Islam is the religion of GOD etc
is rubbed into their thinking that they can't even imagine that it could be wrong. That's what i call a biased starting point.

Let's just leave Islam on the side and start from a neutral position about a "fictional religion" it could be any cult religion in America, Now, when you study about it or watch any video, you find out, this priest is telling his follower something else but it his actions are different and he has 10 or 14 wives (it does not really matter once he has more than 4),if someone asks you to adopt this religion, i do not think you will be willing to accept that religion. Remember, women are one of three things, most of the conflict takes place. Even in animals, they will die for a mating with the female.

2- Regarding the Quran, it was not written until some time after the death of the prophet, there are different time periods. It was in people's memory for 23 years while it was revealed to the prophet, approximately 18 years death of the prophet, Zabar Zair, pesh was added because people were reading it incorrectly.

Now thinking logically,. what is the probability that, over the 23 years before the prophet's death, and 18 years after his death, there was not a single mistake, especially when you don't have anything to compare against it.

Even if you tell someone a simple story, after fifty years, when it passes on from one person to another, it changes a little bit, let alone a book as big as the Quran. Without anything written, it is bound to change.

My reason for the post was, to make think, "hang on, what practice, could there be any chance, its all man-made up"

Forget about everything, just tell us where the content , message, arguments, facts of the book don't make sense . We have the book among us, whether it is true or not, is to be decided by asking questions about the book, not about the weather of Arabia or by the number of desert foxes in Arabia .

If the goal is to see whether Einstein's theory of relativity is right , we would focus on the pages where the theory is written and read it and see if the evidence makes sense, And not on the stories about Einstein.
 
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Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
Forget about everything, just tell us where the content , message, arguments, facts of the book don't make sense . We have the book among us, whether it is true or not, is to be decided by asking questions about the book, not about the weather of Arabia or by the number of desert foxes in Arabia .

If the goal is to see whether Einstein's theory of relativity is right , we would focus on the pages where the theory is written and read it and see if the evidence makes sense, And not on the stories about Einstein.

I can't see anything special in quran that would make me think that it is special, so i don't buy this argument that no human can come up with a verse like in quran.
Without searching the internet, can you tell me if the following is from quran or not?
is there anything different that can give you hint about the origin of the following text. Most of the quran is copied from the bible and Torah anyway.
وَإِيَّاكُمُ الَّذِينَ تَتَضَايَقُونَ رَاحَةً مَعَنَا عِنْدَ اسْتِعْلاَنِ الرَّبِّ يَسُوعَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَعَ مَلاَئِكَةِ قُوَّتِهِ،
 

Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
You see that was my whole point in this post that we are living under delusions when it comes to Islam, that it is the perfect religion, Prophet Muhammad was a perfect human being that could do no wrong,, but there are no rational bases for these. Unconsciously we have cemented these delusions in our head and we are not willing to question it, that's why
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
I can't see anything special in quran that would make me think that it is special, so i don't buy this argument that no human can come up with a verse like in quran.
Without searching the internet, can you tell me if the following is from quran or not?
is there anything different that can give you hint about the origin of the following text. Most of the quran is copied from the bible and Torah anyway.
وَإِيَّاكُمُ الَّذِينَ تَتَضَايَقُونَ رَاحَةً مَعَنَا عِنْدَ اسْتِعْلاَنِ الرَّبِّ يَسُوعَ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَعَ مَلاَئِكَةِ قُوَّتِهِ،

Thanks at least you have come to the main point and focus. Quran challenges all human beings to make a chapter like Quran, the smallest chapter has only three verses. People have tried to do this, just google you will find those tries and then compare with the chapters of Quran....

LoL, Bible and torah , have you really read them. They are books of God but even a layman when listens to all three will tell you which is the most different. Yes, some of the topics are similar because they were books of the God, and they do contain some genuine passages but have been so much corrupted that the message of God has been changed almost, thats why Quran is THE WORD of GOD ....

I will not lie that i googled it, but before googling because of the word yasoo i knew it was from bible , but i still googled.
 
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Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
The simple fact that you were not 100% sure about its origin, me that there is anything special. I am sure if Arabic was my first language, i could have part of the quran mixed up with some verses added, no one would be able to tell which parties are genuine from the quran and which part i added,

Now can you explain what it is that makes you think that no human can come up with verses similar to it. I heard this story millions of times since my childhood that no one can come up with verses like quran but they explained what it is that makes it special.
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
The simple fact that you were not 100% sure about its origin, me that there is anything special. I am sure if Arabic was my first language, i could have part of the quran mixed up with some verses added, no one would be able to tell which parties are genuine from the quran and which part i added,

Now can you explain what it is that makes you think that no human can come up with verses similar to it. I heard this story millions of times since my childhood that no one can come up with verses like quran but they explained what it is that makes it special.

If there is nothing special, why not write some words in English, then ask google to translate them in Arabic, then present it as a chapter and say that it is similar to Quran, hence Quran is man made. Remember, present a chapter, not a single verse like you did above , a single verse has no context, there should be context of what is being said ...

Then we would read the chapter and point what is different, and also what is difference between man-made and only 3 verse chapter of Quran ........

About specialty of Quran ...... a sample
 

Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
If there is nothing special, why not write some words in English, then ask google to translate them in Arabic, then present it as a chapter and say that it is similar to Quran, hence Quran is man made. Remember, present a chapter, not a single verse like you did above , a single verse has no context, there should be context of what is being said ...

Then we would read the chapter and point what is different, and also what is difference between man-made and only 3 verse chapter of Quran ........

About specialty of Quran ...... a sample


You see thats what i hate, you did not answer my question, its was just a waste of my time,
What i found is that almost all of the religion bashers have no logical answer to debate,
but for their mental satisfaction, they want you to agree with them and their delusions.

We are not talking about English people, we are talking about YOU.
All the replies of religious bashers to my valid question are as vague as the book and the religion they believe in.

Their responses are typical, "You have not read the quran with the translation", "you don't understand religion",

All of them are fooling themself, not me and it is fine with me if they want to live in their fairy tale land and keep believing in something that is completely fancy stories copied from other books, if it was the thesis of someone, it would not even receive passing marks because the amount of duplicate stuff it has from other books.

If that's the way want to live, that's fine or you can search the internet and start questioning anything that does not add up in Islam.

i don't think I have anything more to add to it, because most of the issues were already raised by another poster AliSher , but i don't see any logical answer..
 

KhanWarrior

MPA (400+ posts)
You see thats what i hate, you did not answer my question, its was just a waste of my time,
What i found is that almost all of the religion bashers have no logical answer to debate,
but for their mental satisfaction, they want you to agree with them and their delusions.

We are not talking about English people, we are talking about YOU.
All the replies of religious bashers to my valid question are as vague as the book and the religion they believe in.

Their responses are typical, "You have not read the quran with the translation", "you don't understand religion",

All of them are fooling themself, not me and it is fine with me if they want to live in their fairy tale land and keep believing in something that is completely fancy stories copied from other books, if it was the thesis of someone, it would not even receive passing marks because the amount of duplicate stuff it has from other books.

If that's the way want to live, that's fine or you can search the internet and start questioning anything that does not add up in Islam.

i don't think I have anything more to add to it, because most of the issues were already raised by another poster AliSher , but i don't see any logical answer..

Your question was what is special about Quran that we humans can not make it. And i tagged you a video of an Arabic language scholar ( the video has English subtitles very easy to understand ) talking about the uniqueness and beauty of the language in Quran. Is that a wrong answer ?

I also said, that take the smallest Surah of Quran it has 3 verses, read it, and then suppose this was man-made speech, now if it is and it is not special, you can write yourselves some thing with three verses with a theme and then translate that to Arabic and claim this is similiar to Quran.

If suppose i said, Quran has linguistic beauty, thematic beauty, scientific wisdom, humbleness effect, historical truth, mathematical balance, a beautiful order, effect of recitation, social justice and wisdom, logical coherence, completeness ( no verses contradict each other ) , the power of the message etc etc etc ...... Now next i would give you 1000 examples of each of the category i told above and tell you to produce something like it ............ After all this exercise there is one thing still true, which is that my description of the Quran is not the Quran itself ........ So why not you just read the chapters of Quran and say oh I can make a chapter like this, and produce a chapter of 3 verses which is the smallest in Quran and people with thinking can see whether it indeed is similar to the Quran ..........
 

Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
If there is nothing special, why not write some words in English, then ask google to translate them in Arabic, then present it as a chapter and say that it is similar to Quran, hence Quran is man made. Remember,

Why they dont do this, because they have better things to be doing rather than trying to prove something that is obvious, and it does not matter, if someone comes up with a book, not just a chapter, it would not be enough to convince religion bashers what they don't want to see because of this whole idea about Islam is cemented in their thinking.

Unless they change their biased starting point to a neutral one where they are mentally ready to accept both outcomes, depending on their research, No human, no written material, no verbal knowledge can change them
 

Noworriesbehappy

Councller (250+ posts)
Your question was what is special about Quran that we humans can not make it. And i tagged you a video of an Arabic language scholar ( the video has English subtitles very easy to understand ) talking about the uniqueness and beauty of the language in Quran. Is that a wrong answer ?

I also said, that take the smallest Surah of Quran it has 3 verses, read it, and then suppose this was man-made speech, now if it is and it is not special, you can write yourselves some thing with three verses with a theme and then translate that to Arabic and claim this is similiar to Quran.

If suppose i said, Quran has linguistic beauty, thematic beauty, scientific wisdom, humbleness effect, historical truth, mathematical balance, a beautiful order, effect of recitation, social justice and wisdom, logical coherence, completeness ( no verses contradict each other ) , the power of the message etc etc etc ...... Now next i would give you 1000 examples of each of the category i told above and tell you to produce something like it ............ After all this exercise there is one thing still true, which is that my description of the Quran is not the Quran itself ........ So why not you just read the chapters of Quran and say oh I can make a chapter like this, and produce a chapter of 3 verses which is the smallest in Quran and people with thinking can see whether it indeed is similar to the Quran ..........
As i said, i have nothing more to add, you did not know before what was special,
and you searched a video from YouTube, and you expect me to watch it for your mental satisfaction.
, but did you watch it yourself, most likely its the first time you are watching this yourself, now there is no measuring scale to measure the beauty of a book,(if there is such a thing.)

For me,to judge a person, my argument about his wives is enough to convince me
that Islam is a man-made religion that the prophet used it for his sexual satisfaction, just like any other human being would have done if he had the same power as he had.

I don't need any other thing to convince me. Females are a weakness for every animal and we might have evolved but still have the animal instinct when it comes to females and mating that keeps the human population growing.
 

Solomon2

MPA (400+ posts)
The challenge is to show a mistake in any arguments of the Quran, be it about a scientific phenomena or about language and logic...
Is that all? Even if the language of the Quran is pure and beautiful poetry and fully logical, what about how the moral framework of the Quran allows Muslims to endorse the genocidal aims and horribly murderous acts of Hamas? Al-Qaeda? The Iranian mullahs? ISIS?

There are other beautiful works of poetry and books of logic and science.