Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Jin per curse hai wo inn k illawa hain ... so you don't be silly.....

Tel Me Clearly

in 2:62 and rest
main kaya wo log hain jinhoon my Wada pura kia ya wo long bhi jinhoon ny wada pura nahi kia.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

answer please

Should we build reasoning on the basis of Quran or change Quran as per our reasoning.


as per your way of understanding and reasoning

it will


A man said Apple is red


now a color blind person who can not see red color and it he saw red as gray just because he can not see the red and can not prove it. start using his reasoning to prove that here the man want to say that Apple is GRAY.

Dear brother please think and ask questions of yourself before you ask them of anyone else. It is precisely because people do not raise questions within themselves to answer that adds to their confusion.

Just to explain your point, how would those people reason who do not have quran? Did you yourself start reasoning out things after you read the quran and fully understood it?

Capability of reasoning is natural and the process comes into operation as soon as you are born and over a period of time becomes more and more developed if one works at it.

The quran does not teach reasoning per se but uses it to convince those who have developed reason based thinking. This could only work if quran talked sense that was capable of convincing all rational people through proof and proving. This is why all make belief based interpretations of the quran are false because they actually oppose what the quran stands for.

The point you need to realise is that if people believed in all sorts of nonsense make beliefs then how could you convince them to your side? There are only two possible answers, a) talk yet bigger nonsense to show you have even bigger nonsense than others or talk sense to show that nonsense is nonsense and only sensible thing is sensible thing so all other ideas are wrong.

Make beliefs yours or anyone else's keep people confused so they do not know why they believe what they believe. They cannopt explain them nor prove them they just learn to live with them and they do not know why they must live with them.

However to realise my these points you need to get into inter-sectarian debates and inter-religious debates. The debate between a rational person and make belief person is big problem because make belief person cannot reason things out therefore cannot understand what rational person is saying and why or what are implications of his own make beliefs.

It is like if I say, I believe I have an invisible chicken that can fly to moon then no matter what you cannot convince me otherwise. It is because my stance is beyond reason and evidence. This is why hindus are hindus because they have make beliefs about idols and likewise many muslims visit tombs because they have similar make beliefs about tombs. These muslims do not believe dead people are dead whereas a rational muslim believes dead people are dead. The rational muslim cannot convince an irrational muslim because irrational muslim is not developed rationally. Christians believe one in three and three in one so who can convince them out of that because those christians are as irrational and illogical as the pointed out muslims. This is why world cannot be changed for the better because the very people who were supposed to educate people to be rational are actually teaching people to be irrational and stupid. So it is going to take a very long time yet before people really come to quran for proper guidance. The quran is useless for people who are simple minded because it cannot offer them any guidance. All books and messages are useless for people who cannot understand them.

This shows how hard it was for the divine messengers get any following but they did it and that was their real miracle. The quran tells us how they did it. They first of all targeted those people who were already thinkers themselves and convinced them and then guided them to convince others and that is how they spread their messages till they got a following whereby they were able to set up their own state. The very same was done by our messenger ie to begin with he approached selected people and through them he approached other and gradually the message reached far and wide and so community was brought about.

There was no miracles or magic just very hard work by people like ourselves in trying to educate each other. Soon islam became household name anywhere and everywhere. Since message of islam was derailed muslims have been led in to ignorance and confusion thereby into self harm and self destruction.

This will continue for as long as there are people who promote irrationality, confusion and ignorance instead of information and reasoning.

I hope this explanation helps but not unless you start reasoning things for your own satisfaction. Even this discussion is useless if you must remain irrational and unreasonable. In fact in discussing all this you are proving your own stance wrong because you are either looking for explanation for your make beliefs to based them upon or that you are trying to convince me through rational arguments to become irrational. So you can see the way you have trapped yourself very badly.

If you do not leave this irrational stance then how do you deliver the divine message to others in the best way possible 16/125 etc? The very fact that quran demands to be delivered to others and in a best way forces us to be rational ourselves and help other be rational so that we could see how proof and proving works and come together on that basis.

However, mullahs tell you it is up to Allah to guide people. This is what they understand of the quran. They do not realise that in order to guide Allah has his part to play but messengers have their parts to play and people have to play their parts. Allah has delivered his message to his messengers and told then that it is their duty to deliver them. So Allah and his messengers have done their bits already, it is now duty of followers of those messengers to deliver the message they have been given to others the best they can. Are we fulfilling our duty? I guess many of us or not. Instead we are trying to confuse ourselves and others. No wonder we are suffering the consequences of our actions.

The quran makes it clear that we will not find peace unless we deliver the message properly. Only when we deliver the message properly that people will come and join us and together we will be able to get rid of harm and destruction that we inflict upon each other thanks to our ignorance of the divine message.

I hope this gives you something to think about. regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother please think and ask questions of yourself before you ask them of anyone else. It is precisely because people do not raise questions within themselves to answer that adds to their confusion.

Just to explain your point, how would those people reason who do not have quran? Did you yourself start reasoning out things after you read the quran and fully understood it?

Capability of reasoning is natural and the process comes into operation as soon as you are born and over a period of time becomes more and more developed if one works at it.

The quran does not teach reasoning per se but uses it to convince those who have developed reason based thinking. This could only work if quran talked sense that was capable of convincing all rational people through proof and proving. This is why all make belief based interpretations of the quran are false because they actually oppose what the quran stands for.

The point you need to realise is that if people believed in all sorts of nonsense make beliefs then how could you convince them to your side? There are only two possible answers, a) talk yet bigger nonsense to show you have even bigger nonsense than others or talk sense to show that nonsense is nonsense and only sensible thing is sensible thing so all other ideas are wrong.

Make beliefs yours or anyone else's keep people confused so they do not know why they believe what they believe. They cannopt explain them nor prove them they just learn to live with them and they do not know why they must live with them.

However to realise my these points you need to get into inter-sectarian debates and inter-religious debates. The debate between a rational person and make belief person is big problem because make belief person cannot reason things out therefore cannot understand what rational person is saying and why or what are implications of his own make beliefs.

It is like if I say, I believe I have an invisible chicken that can fly to moon then no matter what you cannot convince me otherwise. It is because my stance is beyond reason and evidence. This is why hindus are hindus because they have make beliefs about idols and likewise many muslims visit tombs because they have similar make beliefs about tombs. These muslims do not believe dead people are dead whereas a rational muslim believes dead people are dead. The rational muslim cannot convince an irrational muslim because irrational muslim is not developed rationally. Christians believe one in three and three in one so who can convince them out of that because those christians are as irrational and illogical as the pointed out muslims. This is why world cannot be changed for the better because the very people who were supposed to educate people to be rational are actually teaching people to be irrational and stupid. So it is going to take a very long time yet before people really come to quran for proper guidance. The quran is useless for people who are simple minded because it cannot offer them any guidance. All books and messages are useless for people who cannot understand them.

This shows how hard it was for the divine messengers get any following but they did it and that was their real miracle. The quran tells us how they did it. They first of all targeted those people who were already thinkers themselves and convinced them and then guided them to convince others and that is how they spread their messages till they got a following whereby they were able to set up their own state. The very same was done by our messenger ie to begin with he approached selected people and through them he approached other and gradually the message reached far and wide and so community was brought about.

There was no miracles or magic just very hard work by people like ourselves in trying to educate each other. Soon islam became household name anywhere and everywhere. Since message of islam was derailed muslims have been led in to ignorance and confusion thereby into self harm and self destruction.

This will continue for as long as there are people who promote irrationality, confusion and ignorance instead of information and reasoning.

I hope this explanation helps but not unless you start reasoning things for your own satisfaction. Even this discussion is useless if you must remain irrational and unreasonable. In fact in discussing all this you are proving your own stance wrong because you are either looking for explanation for your make beliefs to based them upon or that you are trying to convince me through rational arguments to become irrational. So you can see the way you have trapped yourself very badly.

If you do not leave this irrational stance then how do you deliver the divine message to others in the best way possible 16/125 etc? The very fact that quran demands to be delivered to others and in a best way forces us to be rational ourselves and help other be rational so that we could see how proof and proving works and come together on that basis.

However, mullahs tell you it is up to Allah to guide people. This is what they understand of the quran. They do not realise that in order to guide Allah has his part to play but messengers have their parts to play and people have to play their parts. Allah has delivered his message to his messengers and told then that it is their duty to deliver them. So Allah and his messengers have done their bits already, it is now duty of followers of those messengers to deliver the message they have been given to others the best they can. Are we fulfilling our duty? I guess many of us or not. Instead we are trying to confuse ourselves and others. No wonder we are suffering the consequences of our actions.

The quran makes it clear that we will not find peace unless we deliver the message properly. Only when we deliver the message properly that people will come and join us and together we will be able to get rid of harm and destruction that we inflict upon each other thanks to our ignorance of the divine message.

I hope this gives you something to think about. regards and all the best.

Talk to me in short format please

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother please think and ask questions of yourself before you ask them of anyone else. It is precisely because people do not raise questions within themselves to answer that adds to their confusion.

Just to explain your point, how would those people reason who do not have quran? Did you yourself start reasoning out things after you read the quran and fully understood it?

Capability of reasoning is natural and the process comes into operation as soon as you are born and over a period of time becomes more and more developed if one works at it.

The quran does not teach reasoning per se but uses it to convince those who have developed reason based thinking. This could only work if quran talked sense that was capable of convincing all rational people through proof and proving. This is why all make belief based interpretations of the quran are false because they actually oppose what the quran stands for.

The point you need to realise is that if people believed in all sorts of nonsense make beliefs then how could you convince them to your side? There are only two possible answers, a) talk yet bigger nonsense to show you have even bigger nonsense than others or talk sense to show that nonsense is nonsense and only sensible thing is sensible thing so all other ideas are wrong.

Make beliefs yours or anyone else's keep people confused so they do not know why they believe what they believe. They cannopt explain them nor prove them they just learn to live with them and they do not know why they must live with them.

However to realise my these points you need to get into inter-sectarian debates and inter-religious debates. The debate between a rational person and make belief person is big problem because make belief person cannot reason things out therefore cannot understand what rational person is saying and why or what are implications of his own make beliefs.

It is like if I say, I believe I have an invisible chicken that can fly to moon then no matter what you cannot convince me otherwise. It is because my stance is beyond reason and evidence. This is why hindus are hindus because they have make beliefs about idols and likewise many muslims visit tombs because they have similar make beliefs about tombs. These muslims do not believe dead people are dead whereas a rational muslim believes dead people are dead. The rational muslim cannot convince an irrational muslim because irrational muslim is not developed rationally. Christians believe one in three and three in one so who can convince them out of that because those christians are as irrational and illogical as the pointed out muslims. This is why world cannot be changed for the better because the very people who were supposed to educate people to be rational are actually teaching people to be irrational and stupid. So it is going to take a very long time yet before people really come to quran for proper guidance. The quran is useless for people who are simple minded because it cannot offer them any guidance. All books and messages are useless for people who cannot understand them.

This shows how hard it was for the divine messengers get any following but they did it and that was their real miracle. The quran tells us how they did it. They first of all targeted those people who were already thinkers themselves and convinced them and then guided them to convince others and that is how they spread their messages till they got a following whereby they were able to set up their own state. The very same was done by our messenger ie to begin with he approached selected people and through them he approached other and gradually the message reached far and wide and so community was brought about.

There was no miracles or magic just very hard work by people like ourselves in trying to educate each other. Soon islam became household name anywhere and everywhere. Since message of islam was derailed muslims have been led in to ignorance and confusion thereby into self harm and self destruction.

This will continue for as long as there are people who promote irrationality, confusion and ignorance instead of information and reasoning.

I hope this explanation helps but not unless you start reasoning things for your own satisfaction. Even this discussion is useless if you must remain irrational and unreasonable. In fact in discussing all this you are proving your own stance wrong because you are either looking for explanation for your make beliefs to based them upon or that you are trying to convince me through rational arguments to become irrational. So you can see the way you have trapped yourself very badly.

If you do not leave this irrational stance then how do you deliver the divine message to others in the best way possible 16/125 etc? The very fact that quran demands to be delivered to others and in a best way forces us to be rational ourselves and help other be rational so that we could see how proof and proving works and come together on that basis.

However, mullahs tell you it is up to Allah to guide people. This is what they understand of the quran. They do not realise that in order to guide Allah has his part to play but messengers have their parts to play and people have to play their parts. Allah has delivered his message to his messengers and told then that it is their duty to deliver them. So Allah and his messengers have done their bits already, it is now duty of followers of those messengers to deliver the message they have been given to others the best they can. Are we fulfilling our duty? I guess many of us or not. Instead we are trying to confuse ourselves and others. No wonder we are suffering the consequences of our actions.

The quran makes it clear that we will not find peace unless we deliver the message properly. Only when we deliver the message properly that people will come and join us and together we will be able to get rid of harm and destruction that we inflict upon each other thanks to our ignorance of the divine message.

I hope this gives you something to think about. regards and all the best.

Please short answers. please

any way after spending time on your post I found that

The long post of your still did not answer my question

You talk about believes of people but you did not talk about My question

I did not ask question about nonsense of people if talk about sense of Quran.

ANSWER
Should develop our reasoning according to Quran or should we change Quran to match our reasoning

simple question need simple answers

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Please short answers. please

any way after spending time on your post I found that

The long post of your still did not answer my question

You talk about believes of people but you did not talk about My question

I did not ask question about nonsense of people if talk about sense of Quran.

ANSWER
Should develop our reasoning according to Quran or should we change Quran to match our reasoning

simple question need simple answers

Dear brother, your question has been answered fully that you develop reasoning long before you are able to read and understand the quran but if you did not then reading quran will not help. Why not? Because the quran is information that you need to judge and use with capability already developed in your brain. You judge the quran for its claims to see if there are evidences for them and do what it says if you are convinced that you will get the results it promises.

If I may say so, your questions are as silly as your understanding of the quran. If you ask me you need a lot of work on trying to reason out things properly. I mean if I give you a road map to use expecting that you have already educated yourself to be able to understand and use the map but then after you get the road map I find out that you do not know how to read road map then what am I to make of the directions you give me from that road map?

So if you do not know how to judge the quran or understand it or use it then where is sense in you asking anyone to accept what you are saying about the quran? Ask yourself what do people need to judge anything? They first and foremost need their brains with ability to judge things and then the related information that needs to be judged. Same with the quran. Judges do not need to read the quran to get sense of how to judge things before they sit in court to judge cases. They just need brains capable of judging cases and the case related information. To develop their faculty they have to go through training programs and then sit with lawyers and attend courts to see how things work and that is how they learn how to judge things. The quran sets forth arguments to convince already educated people to follow it. It is not a text book for educating people from birth till death regarding each and everything. The proof is mullahs start teaching quran by educating kids first in reading and writing arabic and gradually bring them to level of learning the quran to the level they themselves know.

So you can see that people learn from outside the quran through their life experiences and then arrive at the quran if it is available to them. Likewise you do not use quran to learn language, or maths or science or history etc etc. It is just a text book for bringing about a good human society and only contain essential information for that. So if the quran is fine without being a text book for learning arabic or maths or geography etc etc then what is wrong with the quran if it is not a text book for learning wisdom either?

This does not mean the quran does not contain information about various faculties of knowledge for its own set out purpose but it is not a text book for any particular field of knowledge to educate people from start to finish. This is book for general guidance of humanity that is why it does not contain even a long list laws.

This is why I say mullah are misleading people in telling them nonsense about the quran. We should not claim anything about the quran which we cannot prove from it in its own proper context.

So if I were you I should leave mullahs nonsense about the quran aside. It is mullahs who talk nonsense about magic and miracles and saints and jinns and other superstitious stuff. The quran wants people to be rational and get on with making a good life for themselves in this world in the hope of better hereafter as an award from their Lord.

If you really want to learn things please go through my posts. It is not possible to go over everything with individuals that is why I wrote long explanations of things and mostly posted them in a few threads so that they are easy for others to follow.

So good luck and all the best.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Allah ny wada liya k Messengers par eman lao

Allah ny kaha jinhoon ny wada pura nahi kia un par Allah ka Curse hy.

Now tell me.

jin ko fear and greif sy nijat hy unhoon ny wada pura kia k nahi???

iss k illawa 7:159 k log bhi on 'chand' logon main shamil hain. Tum kaho gy k 7:159 wale log bhi under curse hain.

Tum jo marzi kehte raho ... Tum apne andar ka bughaz show nahi kar rahe. Tum Muslim Society main maujood khawmkhaw k bughaz ko show kar rahe ho .... Aise Non-Principled stances bhi Muslim Society k downfall ki waja hain. Below I am copying Translation of 7:159 ... so that you should know k tum jin ko under curse keh rahe ho ... Khuda kaise on ko appreciate kar raha hai...!!!

And of Moses' folk there is a community who lead with truth and establish justice therewith. (7:159)

aur aik aur baat yaad rakho ... theek hai Mullah ka Islamic society main great role hai ... lakin hum jaise logon ka bhi society main role hai jo Sakhat Mullah ko khawmkhaw k bughaz se door rakhne ki koshish karte rehte hain.

Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down.(22:40)

Lehaza Chrches (along side Mosques) bhi aise places hain jahan Allah ka naam often liya jaata hai ........

Below is Urdu Translation of 22:40

وہی لوگ جن کو ان کے وطن سے نکال دیا گیا ہے اور ان کا جرم صرف یہ تھا کہ وہ کہہ رہے ہمارا پروردگار اللہ ہے اور اگر خدا لوگوں میں سے بعض کے ذریعے بعض کی حفاظت نہ کرتا تو تمام کلیسائیں ، کنیسائیں اور آتش کدے (یعنی عیسائیوں ، یہودیوں اور محبوسیوں کی عبادت گاہیں) اور وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی جاتیں کہ جہاں اللہ کا نام کثرت سے لیا جاتا ہے۔

 

[TruPakistani]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Please short answers. please

any way after spending time on your post I found that

The long post of your still did not answer my question

You talk about believes of people but you did not talk about My question

I did not ask question about nonsense of people if talk about sense of Quran.

ANSWER
Should develop our reasoning according to Quran or should we change Quran to match our reasoning

simple question need simple answers

غلام احمد پرویز اور پرویزی فرقے کے عقائد اسلام کے منافی ہیں اور یہ لوگ اسی کا پرچار بھی کرتے ہیں، لھذا اس فرقے سے تعلقات کرنا، انکی مجالس میں نشست و برخاست کرنا اور انکے مواعظ و بیانات کی سماعت کرنے سے سخت احتراز لازم ہے۔​

​

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iss k illawa 7:159 k log bhi on 'chand' logon main shamil hain. Tum kaho gy k 7:159 wale log bhi under curse hain.

Tum jo marzi kehte raho ... Tum apne andar ka bughaz show nahi kar rahe. Tum Muslim Society main maujood khawmkhaw k bughaz ko show kar rahe ho .... Aise Non-Principled stances bhi Muslim Society k downfall ki waja hain. Below I am copying Translation of 7:159 ... so that you should know k tum jin ko under curse keh rahe ho ... Khuda kaise on ko appreciate kar raha hai...!!!

And of Moses' folk there is a community who lead with truth and establish justice therewith. (7:159)

aur aik aur baat yaad rakho ... theek hai Mullah ka Islamic society main great role hai ... lakin hum jaise logon ka bhi society main role hai jo Sakhat Mullah ko khawmkhaw k bughaz se door rakhne ki koshish karte rehte hain.

Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down.(22:40)

Lehaza Chrches (along side Mosques) bhi aise places hain jahan Allah ka naam often liya jaata hai ........

Below is Urdu Translation of 22:40

وہی لوگ جن کو ان کے وطن سے نکال دیا گیا ہے اور ان کا جرم صرف یہ تھا کہ وہ کہہ رہے ہمارا پروردگار اللہ ہے اور اگر خدا لوگوں میں سے بعض کے ذریعے بعض کی حفاظت نہ کرتا تو تمام کلیسائیں ، کنیسائیں اور آتش کدے (یعنی عیسائیوں ، یہودیوں اور محبوسیوں کی عبادت گاہیں) اور وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی جاتیں کہ جہاں اللہ کا نام کثرت سے لیا جاتا ہے۔

7:159 main jin logon ka zikar hy
Kaya unhoon ny Wada pura kia k nai?

Simple Question hy answer please.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother, your question has been answered fully that you develop reasoning long before you are able to read and understand the quran but if you did not then reading quran will not help. Why not? Because the quran is information that you need to judge and use with capability already developed in your brain. You judge the quran for its claims to see if there are evidences for them and do what it says if you are convinced that you will get the results it promises.

If I may say so, your questions are as silly as your understanding of the quran. If you ask me you need a lot of work on trying to reason out things properly. I mean if I give you a road map to use expecting that you have already educated yourself to be able to understand and use the map but then after you get the road map I find out that you do not know how to read road map then what am I to make of the directions you give me from that road map?

So if you do not know how to judge the quran or understand it or use it then where is sense in you asking anyone to accept what you are saying about the quran? Ask yourself what do people need to judge anything? They first and foremost need their brains with ability to judge things and then the related information that needs to be judged. Same with the quran. Judges do not need to read the quran to get sense of how to judge things before they sit in court to judge cases. They just need brains capable of judging cases and the case related information. To develop their faculty they have to go through training programs and then sit with lawyers and attend courts to see how things work and that is how they learn how to judge things. The quran sets forth arguments to convince already educated people to follow it. It is not a text book for educating people from birth till death regarding each and everything. The proof is mullahs start teaching quran by educating kids first in reading and writing arabic and gradually bring them to level of learning the quran to the level they themselves know.

So you can see that people learn from outside the quran through their life experiences and then arrive at the quran if it is available to them. Likewise you do not use quran to learn language, or maths or science or history etc etc. It is just a text book for bringing about a good human society and only contain essential information for that. So if the quran is fine without being a text book for learning arabic or maths or geography etc etc then what is wrong with the quran if it is not a text book for learning wisdom either?

This does not mean the quran does not contain information about various faculties of knowledge for its own set out purpose but it is not a text book for any particular field of knowledge to educate people from start to finish. This is book for general guidance of humanity that is why it does not contain even a long list laws.

This is why I say mullah are misleading people in telling them nonsense about the quran. We should not claim anything about the quran which we cannot prove from it in its own proper context.

So if I were you I should leave mullahs nonsense about the quran aside. It is mullahs who talk nonsense about magic and miracles and saints and jinns and other superstitious stuff. The quran wants people to be rational and get on with making a good life for themselves in this world in the hope of better hereafter as an award from their Lord.

If you really want to learn things please go through my posts. It is not possible to go over everything with individuals that is why I wrote long explanations of things and mostly posted them in a few threads so that they are easy for others to follow.

So good luck and all the best.

First of all it is foolish to think that your long posts are easy to follow.

and when i am asking for short reply then please short reply.


Your GREAT arguments that

Same with the quran. Judges do not need to read the quran to get sense of how to judge things before they sit in court to judge cases. They just need brains capable of judging cases and the case related information.

Quran provide Laws to live and you are saying that Judge do not need it.??


Can you name a judge who do not READ Law(human made ) and sit in court.

For us Muslims(and for the whole world) Quran set Laws to live


any way.

i think you are not getting my point.

ok let me try again.

let sy back in 700

Someone named "A" Who is consider as trustworthy and every one believes what he said as truth

"A" write in year 700

"Human will fly like bird in the air."

now in year 800 if some read this line how should he tranlate this into urdu. keeping in mind that what ever "A" said is truth. His brain is telling him that it is not possible that human fly like bird.

SHORT REPLY

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iss k illawa 7:159 k log bhi on 'chand' logon main shamil hain. Tum kaho gy k 7:159 wale log bhi under curse hain.

Tum jo marzi kehte raho ... Tum apne andar ka bughaz show nahi kar rahe. Tum Muslim Society main maujood khawmkhaw k bughaz ko show kar rahe ho .... Aise Non-Principled stances bhi Muslim Society k downfall ki waja hain. Below I am copying Translation of 7:159 ... so that you should know k tum jin ko under curse keh rahe ho ... Khuda kaise on ko appreciate kar raha hai...!!!

And of Moses' folk there is a community who lead with truth and establish justice therewith. (7:159)

aur aik aur baat yaad rakho ... theek hai Mullah ka Islamic society main great role hai ... lakin hum jaise logon ka bhi society main role hai jo Sakhat Mullah ko khawmkhaw k bughaz se door rakhne ki koshish karte rehte hain.

Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down.(22:40)

Lehaza Chrches (along side Mosques) bhi aise places hain jahan Allah ka naam often liya jaata hai ........

Below is Urdu Translation of 22:40

وہی لوگ جن کو ان کے وطن سے نکال دیا گیا ہے اور ان کا جرم صرف یہ تھا کہ وہ کہہ رہے ہمارا پروردگار اللہ ہے اور اگر خدا لوگوں میں سے بعض کے ذریعے بعض کی حفاظت نہ کرتا تو تمام کلیسائیں ، کنیسائیں اور آتش کدے (یعنی عیسائیوں ، یہودیوں اور محبوسیوں کی عبادت گاہیں) اور وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی جاتیں کہ جہاں اللہ کا نام کثرت سے لیا جاتا ہے۔

Is Ayat k is part par gaur karlo ka

اور وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی جاتیں کہ جہاں اللہ کا نام کثرت سے لیا جاتا ہے۔

yahaan par Allah ka nam kasarat sy lainay ka zikar "Aur Wo Masjidain bhi" k sath mentioned hy

any way.

you must know that even Mushrik of Arabs and Mushrik Christians use name "Allah" for GOD.

and ANY WAY


Will discuss this later you focus to answer my simple question.


7:159 main jin ka zikar hy

Kaya unhoon ny wada pura kia?

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

First of all it is foolish to think that your long posts are easy to follow.

and when i am asking for short reply then please short reply.


Your GREAT arguments that

Same with the quran. Judges do not need to read the quran to get sense of how to judge things before they sit in court to judge cases. They just need brains capable of judging cases and the case related information.

Quran provide Laws to live and you are saying that Judge do not need it.??


Can you name a judge who do not READ Law(human made ) and sit in court.

For us Muslims(and for the whole world) Quran set Laws to live


any way.

i think you are not getting my point.

ok let me try again.

let sy back in 700

Someone named "A" Who is consider as trustworthy and every one believes what he said as truth

"A" write in year 700

"Human will fly like bird in the air."

now in year 800 if some read this line how should he tranlate this into urdu. keeping in mind that what ever "A" said is truth. His brain is telling him that it is not possible that human fly like bird.

SHORT REPLY

Dear brother Abdullah, please start reading long posts to see the context I am providing because otherwise your criticism of my points is not valid. If you want me to be critical of your point of view then you will have to explain your context so that I too could examine and see what is wrong with it and why. If you are not interested even in reading what I am proposing then how are you going to understand it? If you do not understand it then how valid is to be your criticism of it?

For example, mullahs claim Jesus was born by supernatural intervention ie Allah wanted to show a miracle. I know this is your belief too but can you prove this belief of yours? Of course not? The question then is, why would Allah do something to prove something yet fail to prove it? Can you see my point? In order for Allah to prove anything to humans he has to use the way people understand and use. Using a way beyond human understanding actually invalidates the divine claim because if there is no way to prove something then it cannot be proven. If there is any way to prove something then it has to be shown how otherwise the claim remains unbelievable because it remains unproven.

These are very complex and sophisticated arguments which mullahs avoid because if they did not they will have to accept they are talking nonsense about quran and islam. It also shows why rational and logical muslims are not interested in make beliefs because they serve no purpose other than trying to keep people ignorant and under control.

The question is, why Allah needs to show supernatural miracles to prove his divinity or messenger-ship of his sent ones? Or what purpose could miracles serve that a reason based proof could not? How can anyone even prove jesus was born without father? If none can then how could it be claimed a miracle when such an event would serve no purpose whatsoever and in fact it would prove the claim false instead? Moreover all chemical and biological processes work the way they do ie the whole universe and things in it work the way they do.

This is why understanding the quran in context of the universal realities proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the origin of the quran and the universe is the same and that there is no need at all for supernatural make belief miracles for people to accept existence of God and his purpose for creation. So called miracles are unislamic make beliefs and one can prove them so.

These mullahs who have been telling us all sorts of nonsense in the name of islam and quran prove clearly that they are not capable of being leaders for the ummah to follow. It is people of knowledge that ummah should be following and only to the degree that they prove knowledgeable people. Otherwise islam would become nothing more than mullah worshipper cult. The words used in the quran have various meanings and it is not right for anyone to interpret the quran in a way that is provably wrong. When we can prove very easily that quran is not talking about so called miracles then why do so? And even if some ignorant people do it why others accept it without critical examination?

The other main point one must realise is that if the quranic text can be interpreted both ways ie rationally as well as irrationally due to a variety of meanings of words then still it is wrong to accept irrational way because that makes it senseless. The point is that anyone can twist any words and sentences in any direction but do they make proper purposeful sense at the end of the day? If they do not then why accept that interpretation to begin with?

Let us put logic to the test. Let us say that a person tells us that he saw a person sitting and standing both at the same time in the same place. Would you accept his statement true? If yes, why? If no, why not?

If a person says, all religions are true, would you accept his statement? if yes, why and if no, why not?

If a person claims all alleged divine scriptures are true, would you accept his statement? If yes, why? if no, why not?

If a person tells you his scripture is true but yours is false, would you accept his claim? If yes, why and if no then why not?

You will see that it all comes down to rule of contradiction and resolution of the conflict ie no one can accept both the contradictory elements in a statement can be true. All will explain that if one is true then other is false or both may be false. No matter what both cannot be true.

This is why when anyone interprets the quran the wrong way we become aware of the wrong interpretation because that interpretation attributes contradictions to the quran and the quran claims to be free all contradiction. It does not contradict itself and it does not contradict any related realities of real world.

The question for you to think about is, why Allah is telling us in the quran that if the quran contained contradictions then it could not be word of Allah? This alone proves the fact that the quran is supposed to be understood and interpreted rationally and logically not on basis of make beliefs and make belief miracles.

I hope this explanation helps you understand the real difference between my understanding of the quran and yours. To me ASSAA of Moosa does not mean his magic stick but the divine revelation that proved him the messenger of Allah by way of proof and proving.

So please think things through thoroughly and trust your sincere judgement about things. Don't be afraid of Allah because he is only a helpful adviser not waiting there for us to make mistakes so that he could grab us by the neck and show us how powerful tyrant he is. Remember with BISMILLAH rahmaan o Raheem he introduces himself to us. In the whole of the quran then he gets busy telling us look at my universe how I set it up and how fine it works and look at the way I set up things in it. So all you need to do is live by my advice and you too will do ok. The problems will come your way only if you did things your way and that is only because you do not have the knowledge that I have to see end results of your actions. Moreover if you do what I tell you then you will turn this world of yours in to a paradise otherwise you may as well end up in hell of your own making. However you are promised awards both in this life and in hereafter if you followed my advice otherwise you will have to live with it regretting your wrong course of actions for the rest of your life in here and for a long time in there.

With this advice he leaves us to do as we please and face the consequences. This is proper context for understanding the quran.

regards and all the best.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Is Ayat k is part par gaur karlo ka

اور وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی جاتیں کہ جہاں اللہ کا نام کثرت سے لیا جاتا ہے۔

yahaan par Allah ka nam kasarat sy lainay ka zikar "Aur Wo Masjidain bhi" k sath mentioned hy

any way.

you must know that even Mushrik of Arabs and Mushrik Christians use name "Allah" for GOD.

and ANY WAY


Will discuss this later you focus to answer my simple question.


7:159 main jin ka zikar hy

Kaya unhoon ny wada pura kia?

My focus point was churches and others.....

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

7:159 main jin logon ka zikar hy
Kaya unhoon ny Wada pura kia k nai?

Simple Question hy answer please.

Now listen carefully.

Total Promise main jo portion Allah ka tha ... ya jo bandon ka tha ... they are fulfilling that part of the promise. 2:62,5:69 main first two conditions Allah k Haqooq se related hain (i.e. belief in (i)Allah and (ii)day of judgment) ... third condition bandon k haqooq se related hai (i.e. doing good deeds)

They have fulfilled this part of the promise. Allah appreciate them for doing this positive job in 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

But they have not fulfilled promise related to Rasalat. It is why that when it comes to their relationship with Rasool ... Allah make safarash before Rasool .... k on ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar-guzar kijiye ....

Yes .... they have not fulfilled part of the promise that relates to Haqooq-e-Rasool ....

Allah Himself appreciates them for they fulfilled three conditions .... But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے[/FONT]​

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Now listen carefully.

Total Promise main jo portion Allah ka tha ... ya jo bandon ka tha ... they are fulfilling that part of the promise. 2:62,5:69 main first two conditions Allah k Haqooq se related hain (i.e. belief in (i)Allah and (ii)day of judgment) ... third condition bandon k haqooq se related hai (i.e. doing good deeds)

They have fulfilled this part of the promise. Allah appreciate them for doing this positive job in 2:62,5:69 and 7:159

But they have not fulfilled promise related to Rasalat. It is why that when it comes to their relationship with Rasool ... Allah make safarash before Rasool .... k on ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar-guzar kijiye ....

Yes .... they have not fulfilled part of the promise that relates to Haqooq-e-Rasool ....

Allah Himself appreciates them for they fulfilled three conditions .... But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے[/FONT]​

You said
But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Ya Ayat main kahaan likha hy??

(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard. They changed the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves the doers of good.)

Is main Breach of their Covenant ka zikar hy and Covenant aik pura package tha na k parts k ya man lo and ya na b mano to khair hy.. So aik b shik agar nai mani tu mtlab wada pura nai kia

ad jis ny wada pura nai kia wo under curse hy.


and you said

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

is main "Except few" ka zikar Curse sy related nahi hy bulkay.

READ ya RED part sy related hy
. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them, But forgive them

And Hazoor SW ko yakenan kaha gaya k durguzar karain excep a few k sath nahi bulkhy sub k sath. kyn k Jin main Deceit hy he nahi unko Mauf kis baat par karna? is ka mtlb hy k Allah ny curse kia magar Rasool Allah SW ko kaha gaya k dunia main unko mauf kardo main inka Hisaab khudi karloon ga. (Allah ny bata b dia k kaisay k they are under CURSE)


So you have to answer that

Allah says in 5:12 that
said: "I am with you if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them,

AND par gaur karoo AND k sath jo baat ho wo pahli wali baat k sath jur jati hy matlab agar dono main sy aik bhi condition puri na ho tu overall baat ka pura na hona mana jata hy. (THINK on IT and answer)



ab jub unhoon ny aik baat ko mana magar dosri ko nahi tu Wada pura nahi kia. and jinhoon ny wada pura nahi kia wo under curse hain


Note
You can not repeat that onhoon ny aik part ko pura kia so wo is main nahi atay kyn k AND sy dono batoon ka pura hona lazim sabit hota hy.

Allah kahata hy k jinhooon ny "if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them,

ko pura nahi kia wo under curse and ap unko nijat yafta sabit karny par tulay hoay ho

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother Abdullah, please start reading long posts to see the context I am providing because otherwise your criticism of my points is not valid. If you want me to be critical of your point of view then you will have to explain your context so that I too could examine and see what is wrong with it and why. If you are not interested even in reading what I am proposing then how are you going to understand it? If you do not understand it then how valid is to be your criticism of it?

For example, mullahs claim Jesus was born by supernatural intervention ie Allah wanted to show a miracle. I know this is your belief too but can you prove this belief of yours? Of course not? The question then is, why would Allah do something to prove something yet fail to prove it? Can you see my point? In order for Allah to prove anything to humans he has to use the way people understand and use. Using a way beyond human understanding actually invalidates the divine claim because if there is no way to prove something then it cannot be proven. If there is any way to prove something then it has to be shown how otherwise the claim remains unbelievable because it remains unproven.

These are very complex and sophisticated arguments which mullahs avoid because if they did not they will have to accept they are talking nonsense about quran and islam. It also shows why rational and logical muslims are not interested in make beliefs because they serve no purpose other than trying to keep people ignorant and under control.

The question is, why Allah needs to show supernatural miracles to prove his divinity or messenger-ship of his sent ones? Or what purpose could miracles serve that a reason based proof could not? How can anyone even prove jesus was born without father? If none can then how could it be claimed a miracle when such an event would serve no purpose whatsoever and in fact it would prove the claim false instead? Moreover all chemical and biological processes work the way they do ie the whole universe and things in it work the way they do.

This is why understanding the quran in context of the universal realities proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the origin of the quran and the universe is the same and that there is no need at all for supernatural make belief miracles for people to accept existence of God and his purpose for creation. So called miracles are unislamic make beliefs and one can prove them so.

These mullahs who have been telling us all sorts of nonsense in the name of islam and quran prove clearly that they are not capable of being leaders for the ummah to follow. It is people of knowledge that ummah should be following and only to the degree that they prove knowledgeable people. Otherwise islam would become nothing more than mullah worshipper cult. The words used in the quran have various meanings and it is not right for anyone to interpret the quran in a way that is provably wrong. When we can prove very easily that quran is not talking about so called miracles then why do so? And even if some ignorant people do it why others accept it without critical examination?

The other main point one must realise is that if the quranic text can be interpreted both ways ie rationally as well as irrationally due to a variety of meanings of words then still it is wrong to accept irrational way because that makes it senseless. The point is that anyone can twist any words and sentences in any direction but do they make proper purposeful sense at the end of the day? If they do not then why accept that interpretation to begin with?

Let us put logic to the test. Let us say that a person tells us that he saw a person sitting and standing both at the same time in the same place. Would you accept his statement true? If yes, why? If no, why not?

If a person says, all religions are true, would you accept his statement? if yes, why and if no, why not?

If a person claims all alleged divine scriptures are true, would you accept his statement? If yes, why? if no, why not?

If a person tells you his scripture is true but yours is false, would you accept his claim? If yes, why and if no then why not?

You will see that it all comes down to rule of contradiction and resolution of the conflict ie no one can accept both the contradictory elements in a statement can be true. All will explain that if one is true then other is false or both may be false. No matter what both cannot be true.

This is why when anyone interprets the quran the wrong way we become aware of the wrong interpretation because that interpretation attributes contradictions to the quran and the quran claims to be free all contradiction. It does not contradict itself and it does not contradict any related realities of real world.

The question for you to think about is, why Allah is telling us in the quran that if the quran contained contradictions then it could not be word of Allah? This alone proves the fact that the quran is supposed to be understood and interpreted rationally and logically not on basis of make beliefs and make belief miracles.

I hope this explanation helps you understand the real difference between my understanding of the quran and yours. To me ASSAA of Moosa does not mean his magic stick but the divine revelation that proved him the messenger of Allah by way of proof and proving.

So please think things through thoroughly and trust your sincere judgement about things. Don't be afraid of Allah because he is only a helpful adviser not waiting there for us to make mistakes so that he could grab us by the neck and show us how powerful tyrant he is. Remember with BISMILLAH rahmaan o Raheem he introduces himself to us. In the whole of the quran then he gets busy telling us look at my universe how I set it up and how fine it works and look at the way I set up things in it. So all you need to do is live by my advice and you too will do ok. The problems will come your way only if you did things your way and that is only because you do not have the knowledge that I have to see end results of your actions. Moreover if you do what I tell you then you will turn this world of yours in to a paradise otherwise you may as well end up in hell of your own making. However you are promised awards both in this life and in hereafter if you followed my advice otherwise you will have to live with it regretting your wrong course of actions for the rest of your life in here and for a long time in there.

With this advice he leaves us to do as we please and face the consequences. This is proper context for understanding the quran.

regards and all the best.

I read you LONG and post

and I ask for short ones as the Long post of yours have points that can easily be put in short lines any way

your whole post was not needed if you have answered my example. (you point of Isa AS turn wasted bcz i have already asked similar question)

JUST FOCUS ON WHAT I AM ASKING

ok let me try again.

let sy back in 700

Someone named "A" Who is consider as trustworthy and every one believes what he said as truth

"A" write in year 700

"Human will fly like bird in the air."

now in year 800 if some read this line how should he tranlate this into urdu. keeping in mind that what ever "A" said is truth. But His brain is telling him that it is not possible that human fly like bird.

SHORT REPLY


JUST ANSWER QUESTION THAT I ASKED BY QUOTING THIS EXAMPLE and it can be answered in few lines.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

My focus point was churches and others.....

Is ka answer post main he tha k

Kasrat sy zikar ka link


وہ مسجدیں بھی منہدم کردی

k sath hy

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

For example, mullahs claim Jesus was born by supernatural intervention ie Allah wanted to show a miracle. I know this is your belief too but can you prove this belief of yours? Of course not? The question then is, why would Allah do something to prove something yet fail to prove it? Can you see my point? In order for Allah to prove anything to humans he has to use the way people understand and use. Using a way beyond human understanding actually invalidates the divine claim because if there is no way to prove something then it cannot be proven. If there is any way to prove something then it has to be shown how otherwise the claim remains unbelievable because it remains unproven.

.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION

and to the point.


let say if Quran(Nauzbillah I am not adding any thing) talk about Cloning

Now first clone was in 1996 tell me

If Quran would have talk about Cloning and back in 700 or 900 etc no one could have prove that it is possible . Should they changed the Quran or say ok may be today we are not aware of this but lets keep finding ..

ANSWER this..

Note: The success of Muslim in past was related to same thing that They Search the universe according to Quran . if they have done as you are saying then Muslims would have not excel in the any field..

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I read you LONG and post

and I ask for short ones as the Long post of yours have points that can easily be put in short lines any way

your whole post was not needed if you have answered my example. (you point of Isa AS turn wasted bcz i have already asked similar question)

JUST FOCUS ON WHAT I AM ASKING

ok let me try again.

let sy back in 700

Someone named "A" Who is consider as trustworthy and every one believes what he said as truth

"A" write in year 700

"Human will fly like bird in the air."

now in year 800 if some read this line how should he tranlate this into urdu. keeping in mind that what ever "A" said is truth. But His brain is telling him that it is not possible that human fly like bird.

SHORT REPLY


JUST ANSWER QUESTION THAT I ASKED BY QUOTING THIS EXAMPLE and it can be answered in few lines.

Dear brother, you are asking me what I have already explained that none can understand everything the quran talks about because it goes beyond knowledge of any person of any given time. This is why the need for up dating the interpretations so that we are always in step with the quran and real world realities. Problems only come about when some people say something about the quran and then they are taken as word of God. If we accept that all quranic interpretations are human work and contain errors of various kind then we will keep in touch with the quran as well as real world and so keep on moving with time.

This is why arabic is a unique language in which there is such flexibility of meanings of words because they are based upon reasons for their use instead of being labels. That is why it is possible to interpret the quran but not other books in other languages. Other languages use words for their given meanings as labels which fix them in time and meaning and use and this is not the case with arabic language.

It is because we do not pay attention to this unique feature of arabic that we put it on par with other languages thus get confused.

So time to pay special attention to this unique feature of arabic. Why is this feature unique for arabic? It is because in its origin it is connected to baby language and yet continues to exist due to quran being in arabic language and that it is also modified like any other language so it is a combination of ancient and modern all in one. This is main thing that most muslim scholars do not realise. This is the main feature that was highlighted by allaama parwez in his lughat.

It is the uniqueness of arabic language that gave the quran the feature that it can never be out of date and that it did not need to be cumbersome book. In any other language Allah had to explain every thing in great detail because other languages are very limited in their flexibility and range of meanings. Compare to arabic all other languages are simple languages. It is because people do not know how arabic works as compare to other languages they do have difficulty in working out the interpretation of the quran.

Muslim scholars too have put this feature of the quranic language out of their minds so they too are becoming confused about it.

Now watch these videos to see how meanings are derived from arabic roots by prof yasir sb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XtTWUT9WII&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJKHRumt8o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Neebox89KUw&feature=related

If one understands what is explain then questions like you raised are answered through that understanding.

regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother, you are asking me what I have already explained that none can understand everything the quran talks about because it goes beyond knowledge of any person of any given time. This is why the need for up dating the interpretations so that we are always in step with the quran and real world realities. Problems only come about when some people say something about the quran and then they are taken as word of God. If we accept that all quranic interpretations are human work and contain errors of various kind then we will keep in touch with the quran as well as real world and so keep on moving with time.

This is why arabic is a unique language in which there is such flexibility of meanings of words because they are based upon reasons for their use instead of being labels. That is why it is possible to interpret the quran but not other books in other languages. Other languages use words for their given meanings as labels which fix them in time and meaning and use and this is not the case with arabic language.

It is because we do not pay attention to this unique feature of arabic that we put it on par with other languages thus get confused.

So time to pay special attention to this unique feature of arabic. Why is this feature unique for arabic? It is because in its origin it is connected to baby language and yet continues to exist due to quran being in arabic language and that it is also modified like any other language so it is a combination of ancient and modern all in one. This is main thing that most muslim scholars do not realise. This is the main feature that was highlighted by allaama parwez in his lughat.

It is the uniqueness of arabic language that gave the quran the feature that it can never be out of date and that it did not need to be cumbersome book. In any other language Allah had to explain every thing in great detail because other languages are very limited in their flexibility and range of meanings. Compare to arabic all other languages are simple languages. It is because people do not know how arabic works as compare to other languages they do have difficulty in working out the interpretation of the quran.

Muslim scholars too have put this feature of the quranic language out of their minds so they too are becoming confused about it.

Now watch these videos to see how meanings are derived from arabic roots by prof yasir sb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XtTWUT9WII&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gJKHRumt8o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Neebox89KUw&feature=related

If one understands what is explain then questions like you raised are answered through that understanding.

regards and all the best.

You want to make Quran as Joke?(Nauzbillah)

your interpration style will never make other(non Muslims) to take it seriously.


Because you are saying that Quran meaning can be changed according to time.

Quran words can not be changed Sir.


Changing meaning time to time doesnt make a thing correct.


You are saying that if sciencetist ABC give a theory that no one can deny then We should change interpretation and translation and meaning of Quran.??

and Then next year some one XYZ prove that no ABC was wrong and now XYZ ca not be denied using REASONS so we should again rush to change Quran meaning and interprations and translations??

Next Year again some DEF prove both XYZ and ABC wrong so now time has come to change Quran Meaning and tranlsation and interprations??


So Word of GOD changes with WORK of HUMAN


That is one GREAAAAAT approach huh???

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You said
But when it comes to their relationship with Rasool .... Allah says to Prophet that these ppl are not under curse and you may ignore their mistake (relating to your rights) and forgive them.

Ya Ayat main kahaan likha hy??

(13. So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard. They changed the words from their (right) places and have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook (their misdeeds). Verily, Allah loves the doers of good.)

Is main Breach of their Covenant ka zikar hy and Covenant aik pura package tha na k parts k ya man lo and ya na b mano to khair hy.. So aik b shik agar nai mani tu mtlab wada pura nai kia

ad jis ny wada pura nai kia wo under curse hy.


and you said

Jin logon pe curse ka zikar ho raha hai wahan aik exception bhi bayan farmayi gayi hai. Exception ka matlab hai k ppl who are under exception ... are not under curse. Exception ka zikar following words main hai....

is main "Except few" ka zikar Curse sy related nahi hy bulkay.

READ ya RED part sy related hy
. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them, But forgive them

And Hazoor SW ko yakenan kaha gaya k durguzar karain excep a few k sath nahi bulkhy sub k sath. kyn k Jin main Deceit hy he nahi unko Mauf kis baat par karna? is ka mtlb hy k Allah ny curse kia magar Rasool Allah SW ko kaha gaya k dunia main unko mauf kardo main inka Hisaab khudi karloon ga. (Allah ny bata b dia k kaisay k they are under CURSE)


So you have to answer that

Allah says in 5:12 that
said: "I am with you if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them,

AND par gaur karoo AND k sath jo baat ho wo pahli wali baat k sath jur jati hy matlab agar dono main sy aik bhi condition puri na ho tu overall baat ka pura na hona mana jata hy. (THINK on IT and answer)



ab jub unhoon ny aik baat ko mana magar dosri ko nahi tu Wada pura nahi kia. and jinhoon ny wada pura nahi kia wo under curse hain


Note
You can not repeat that onhoon ny aik part ko pura kia so wo is main nahi atay kyn k AND sy dono batoon ka pura hona lazim sabit hota hy.

Allah kahata hy k jinhooon ny "if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them,

ko pura nahi kia wo under curse and ap unko nijat yafta sabit karny par tulay hoay ho

I am on work and can't go in details... Lakin tum jo marzi samajhte raho .... on ko under curse samjho jo marzi karo... on ko on ki positive deeds ka ajar Khuda ne dana hai ... and fortunately you are NOT God......!!!

Actually you know that now you are talking foolish things.... Under Curse hain lehaza aap on se dar-guzar karain .... This is your logic.

Quran ki logic ye hai k jinhon ne breach of promise kiya hai wo under curse hain ... wo falan flan Khiyanat k bhi mujram hain ... Lakin there is an exception of few .... aap on few ppl se dar guzar karain.... Zahir hai k those who are few ... are not to be cursed but are to be ignored for their whatever mistake.

again and again read my last post. issi liye main ne pehli post k shuru main he kaha tha ... "Listen carefully...!!!"