Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

[nuzhatghazali]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

ساری بحث سننے کے بعد ایک سوال ذہن میں ابھرتا ہے اگر کسی کے پاس اسکا صحی جواب ہے تو وہ ضرور دیں میری معلومات میں اضافہ کرے گا .کیا قرآن شریف ایک مکمل کتاب ہے ! جی ہاں ہے ، تو جو کتاب مکمل ہے تو اسے سمجھنے کے لئے دوسری کتابوں کی ضرورت کیوں پڑتی ہے .اگر ضرورت پڑتی ہے تو پھر وہ مکمل کتاب کیسے ہوئی! میں اس مسلے پر کنفوز ہوں پلیز میری مدد کیجیے ،

 

[mediator]

Javed Ahmed Ghamdi on Parvez

 

[Aleph]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[MENTION=13412]Mughal1[/MENTION]:

Firstly, your dear old GAP had no standing in the Arabic language. Unless you can prove otherwise please get off your high horses. The guy was a TOTAL incompetent in the Arabic language. He had not even informally studied the Arabic language, let alone going to any internationally acclaimed institute for mastery in Arabic.

Secondly, are you suggesting that Jinn are the same as human beings (Insaan)? Are you really being serious?? Your own 'explanation' betrays your own understanding of the term Jinn! Just like air (which as you point out is 'hidden') is different to human beings, similarly jinn are completely different to human beings. The qur'an talks about these two creations (jinn and ins) as mutually exclusive - from their molecular make up to their existence. Just because jinn linguistically means 'hidden' doesn't mean you twist it so grossly out of proportion!

Did you know the word Jannah (Paradise) comes from the same root jinn? It is referred to as such because of its 'hidden' nature. So are you going to now claim that Paradise is actually a human being just like us?? Also, why would the Qur'an mention the last Rasul (SAW) of being a guide for BOTH ins and jinn if they both are the same thing? The language of the Qur'an consistently makes a difference between the two and you are sitting here and telling us the polar opposite at the behest of a person who didn't even have an informal learning of the Arabic language let alone fus-ha 'araby?

Just the fact that there is separate and definitive terms in the Qur'anic nomenclature for these 2 creations - jinn and ins - should speak a lot to anyone with half a brain; something I am afraid I can't say about you and your GAP saheb. There is absolutely NOTHING in common in the root of these 2 terms. So where the heck are you coming up with these confused interpretations? Even at a 'rational' level your explanation is nonsensical and not conforming to the simplest rules of logic and reason.

Please bhai, spare us from your confused banter. You are again caught red-handed a victim of excessive philosophical arguments while you have clearly admitted that philosophy was a tool of misguided mullahs! You know what is good about Bilal Philips and Zakir Naik (I am not a big fan of both just in case you were interested)? At least they can ADMIT they don't know.

Compare that with the bakwas you blurt out all the time which lacks simple coherence and cogency. And you wax lyrical about your cocky explanations as if it were the absolute and unadulterated truth, ma sha Allah!

Dear friends, the best way to solve your jinn problem is to find out who claims to have jinns in his possession and then take him in to the dark room and process him till his jinns come and save him. You will soon come to know the truth.

This is why a lot of stories told in the name of the prophet are false so don't take them seriously or you cannot be right in blaming others for your own stupidity. The quran is full of verses telling us people attribute falsehood to Allah and his messengers yet I am surprised that people accept all nonsense in the name of Allah and rasool. So don't be this stupid and help others out of ignorance and stupidity.

Try and think out ways of testing jinn theories by anyone who claims anything and you will discover them all lies.

The quran uses word jinn for people and other things that are hidden from view for one reason or an other but they are not invisible non-physical creatures. Atoms are invisble but they are not nonphysical this is why we cannot see air for example.

It makes me sad that even educated people have not developed logical thinking in our society and because society is so dangerous that people of knowledge shy away from telling the truth.

People who argue for nonsense either have personal interest in it or that they are ignorant or mentally ill. The question is, how do we know who is talking sense and who is talking nonsense? This is what my posts are generally all about. Learn ideas and put them into practice and you will save yourselves a lot of bother.

Look at confusion of people like dr amina bilal philip and zakir naik. He is advising people to go to doctor, why? How would doctor know one is possessed by jinn or is mentally ill? Ask these guys why they are promoting such such nonsense and confusion? Why they do not say what is truth? The truth is they don't know because they never studied the subject despite some claiming they have.

So get serious and learn things for yourselves and be in peace.

regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Saying same thing over and over again makes it an argument rather than discussion. The whole point of 'understanding Quran' is lost and now it has become a point of prestige of wining or loosing the argument.
You have both options, understanding quran from those who interpret it through the present day knowledge or those who see quran through the eyes of collectors of ahadees. Remember, a hadith which is very dear to one sect of islam is totally rejected by other sect. But everyone agrees on Quran.

Understanding Quran on present Day knowledge??

A knowlege that is prone to change at any time??

so should we keep changing Quran translation on the basis of Human knowledge??

or should we change Human knowledge on the basis of Quran??

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

7:157 contains only a positive message. This is a positive verse. Aik positive verse se negative meaning nahi nikal sakta.

Secondly .... "Successful" 7:157 main ABSOLUTE meaning main hai. Khuda k saamne Successful hone ka ye matlab nahi k har koi jannat ka ordinary rehne wala bhi khuda k haan aisa he successful ho ga. Successful wo ho ga jis ka rutba Jannat main bhi distinguished ho ga. aur Jo Jannati Jannat main aise distinguished nahi hon gy ... "unsuccessful" wo bhi nahi hon gy. They will also be free of grief and fear.

It is like team who loses in World Cup Final ... though not given trophy ... but is still rewarded with good prizes.

"Successful" ka opposite "Unsuccessful" he hota hai. lakin jo absolute successful nahi hai os k liye zaroori nahi k wo ab zaroor unsuccessful ho ga.

There are many "successful" politicians in our country but not all are as successful to have ever become PM or President of Country.

"Successful" 7:157 main ABSOLUTE meaning main hai.

once again your self imagination and translation.


Hazoor SW k anay k baad
1) Allah ka haan deen Islam he hy.
2) Allah Islam deen he Makbool hy


But you are saying nai Allah bhaly Islam koi hi makbool deen kahy main baki loog bhi azad hain.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

"Successful" 7:157 main ABSOLUTE meaning main hai.

once again your self imagination and translation.


Hazoor SW k anay k baad
1) Allah ka haan deen Islam he hy.
2) Allah Islam deen he Makbool hy


But you are saying nai Allah bhaly Islam koi hi makbool deen kahy main baki loog bhi azad hain.

Tumhare liye aik he medication hai. 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 ko bar bar yaad kiya karo.

Ye ayaat Quran main include karte waqt Khuda ko bhi pata tha k ab siraf islam he maqbool deen hai aur success ka bhi islam he criteria hai. Lakin iss k bawjood 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 are also valid and functional and integral parts of quran.

ab tumhari zid main mujhe tumhari samajh se ziada tumhari niyyat ka qasoor lag raha hai.

zahir hai tumhari explanation wrong prove hone ka simple meaning siraf tumhara wrong prove hona nahi hai. Tumhare teachers ka wrong prove hona bhi hai aur on k teachers ka bhi wrong prove hona hai.

tumhare liye digest karna zahir hai difficult ho ga. I am sorry...!

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

The Qur’an poses a number of questions related to hadith.

Among the questions the Qur’an poses in relation to hadith are:
“In which hadith after this will they believe?” (al-A`araaf [7]:185).
“These are God’s revelations we recite to you in truth. Then, in which hadith after God and His revelations will they believe?” (al-Jatheya [45]:6).
We understand the import of these questions from yet another question posed in the Qur’an:
“Shall I seek other than God as a source of law and judgment when He is the One who has sent down the Book to you in detail?” (al-An`am [6]:114).
Also,
“What is wrong with you? How do you judge? Do you have another book which you
study?” (al-Qalam [68]:35-36).

Read with Care and understand your self.

Here it is clearly mention in all the Ayat you refere that.

Believing any thing that is against Quran is not allowed.

So that is the same principle we adopt with Hadith of Rasool Allah SW.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Tumhare liye aik he medication hai. 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 ko bar bar yaad kiya karo.

Ye ayaat Quran main include karte waqt Khuda ko bhi pata tha k ab siraf islam he maqbool deen hai aur success ka bhi islam he criteria hai. Lakin iss k bawjood 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 are also valid and functional and integral parts of quran.

ab tumhari zid main mujhe tumhari samajh se ziada tumhari niyyat ka qasoor lag raha hai.

zahir hai tumhari explanation wrong prove hone ka simple meaning siraf tumhara wrong prove hona nahi hai. Tumhare teachers ka wrong prove hona bhi hai aur on k teachers ka bhi wrong prove hona hai.

tumhare liye digest karna zahir hai difficult ho ga. I am sorry...!

Khuda ko pata hy bilkul

Khuda ko ya bhi pata hy tabi likha k is main Akal waloon k liye nishaniaan hain.

so Har Akal wala jan sakta hy k Agar Allah k nazdik Deen Islam ko he Makbooliat ka darja hy tu . 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 main khuli chuti nai hy.

Jub success Rasool Allah ko follow karny main he hy tu 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 main khuli chuti nai ho sakti.

Aur har akal wala ya bi janta hy k agar koi detail faisala kisi bat par a chuka hu tu less detail waly bhi detail waly ko as a reference use karti hy.

Ya tumhari Akal k kasoor hy k jo Allah par buhtaan lagti hy k Allah ny Islam aur Rasool Allah SW ko bilawaja he bheja Quran ko bila waja nazil kia kiyn k in par iman laye bina bhi Nijat hy.

Ya tumbari Akal ka kasoor hy jo ya manti hy k Allah tala Aik RAsool Bhejay magar us ko na man na Lazim na rakhy. jis ka dil kary man warna na many tab b wo Nijat yafta hy.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

ساری بحث سننے کے بعد ایک سوال ذہن میں ابھرتا ہے اگر کسی کے پاس اسکا صحی جواب ہے تو وہ ضرور دیں میری معلومات میں اضافہ کرے گا .کیا قرآن شریف ایک مکمل کتاب ہے ! جی ہاں ہے ، تو جو کتاب مکمل ہے تو اسے سمجھنے کے لئے دوسری کتابوں کی ضرورت کیوں پڑتی ہے .اگر ضرورت پڑتی ہے تو پھر وہ مکمل کتاب کیسے ہوئی! میں اس مسلے پر کنفوز ہوں پلیز میری مدد کیجیے ،

ایک صحابی کا قول ہے کے اگر میرے اونٹ کی رسی بھی گم جائے تو وہ میں قرآن سے ڈھونڈ سکتا ہوں
اگر کسی میں اتنی قابلیت ہے قرآن کو سمجھنے کے لئے ؟ تو اسے ضرورت نہیں ہے



اور ایک سادہ سی بات
at least Dictionary قرآن عربی میں ہے آپ کو مجھے اگر اسے سمجھنا ہے تو
تو چاہے ہی ہو گی تو کیا آپ اس پر بھی اس ہی سوچو گے

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Understanding Quran on present Day knowledge??

A knowlege that is prone to change at any time??

so should we keep changing Quran translation on the basis of Human knowledge??

or should we change Human knowledge on the basis of Quran??

When two things are mutually dependent then they work together because they complement each other. The quran is for human understanding and human understanding is developed by the quran. It is like discussion between two persons ie each gives ideas to the other. This is the main reason why quran invites people to ponder over the quranic words and phrases.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Khuda ko pata hy bilkul

Khuda ko ya bhi pata hy tabi likha k is main Akal waloon k liye nishaniaan hain.

so Har Akal wala jan sakta hy k Agar Allah k nazdik Deen Islam ko he Makbooliat ka darja hy tu . 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 main khuli chuti nai hy.

Jub success Rasool Allah ko follow karny main he hy tu 2:62,5:69 aur 7:159 main khuli chuti nai ho sakti.

Aur har akal wala ya bi janta hy k agar koi detail faisala kisi bat par a chuka hu tu less detail waly bhi detail waly ko as a reference use karti hy.

Ya tumhari Akal k kasoor hy k jo Allah par buhtaan lagti hy k Allah ny Islam aur Rasool Allah SW ko bilawaja he bheja Quran ko bila waja nazil kia kiyn k in par iman laye bina bhi Nijat hy.

Ya tumbari Akal ka kasoor hy jo ya manti hy k Allah tala Aik RAsool Bhejay magar us ko na man na Lazim na rakhy. jis ka dil kary man warna na many tab b wo Nijat yafta hy.

"Deen ki Maqbooliyat" aur "success" ka right mafhoom main sufficiently explain kar chukka hoon. Koi aur baat agar samjh main na aa rahi ho ... zaroor mention karo. lakin already explained points ko again and again raise kar k khud ko khawmkhaw ka ziddi prove na karo

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

"Deen ki Maqbooliyat" aur "success" ka right mafhoom main sufficiently explain kar chukka hoon. Koi aur baat agar samjh main na aa rahi ho ... zaroor mention karo. lakin already explained points ko again and again raise kar k khud ko khawmkhaw ka ziddi prove na karo

Deen ki Maqbooliyat and Success ka Mafhoon Ap ka batay hoa kin asoolon k tahaat inta mutabrik ho gaya k usay man laina faraz hogaya?

Kaya Quran ny kaha hy asa?

Quran ny kaha k Success k liye Hazoor SW ko man na unhain follow karna lazim hy.

Apny apni taraf sy Success k Mafhoom bana kar paish karna shuru kardiay hain.


Main ny jo Ayat paish ki wo hamary darmian discussion k upar aid detail verdict hy Mano ya na Mano.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

When two things are mutually dependent then they work together because they complement each other. The quran is for human understanding and human understanding is developed by the quran. It is like discussion between two persons ie each gives ideas to the other. This is the main reason why quran invites people to ponder over the quranic words and phrases.

You said

The quran is for human understanding and human understanding is developed by the quran.


But you and others are saying that Interprate Quran as per your understanding what if you can not grasp something then translate it as you can feel better.

But it should be not like that at least with Book of GOD

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Deen ki Maqbooliyat and Success ka Mafhoon Ap ka batay hoa kin asoolon k tahaat inta mutabrik ho gaya k usay man laina faraz hogaya?

Kaya Quran ny kaha hy asa?

Quran ny kaha k Success k liye Hazoor SW ko man na unhain follow karna lazim hy.

Apny apni taraf sy Success k Mafhoom bana kar paish karna shuru kardiay hain.


Main ny jo Ayat paish ki wo hamary darmian discussion k upar aid detail verdict hy Mano ya na Mano.

Jo mafhoom main ne explain kiya hai that properly accomodates 5:69,2;62 and 7:159 such that k "success" ka matlab "success" he rehta hai aur "maqbooliyat" ka matlab "Maqbooliyat" he rehta hai aur sath he 5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 bhi accomodate ho jaate hain.

Jis matlab ko tum insist karte ho that treats 5;69,2:62 and 7:159 like step children. Jis mafhoom ko tum insist karte ho... not only it contain shallow meanings of "success" and "maqbooliyat" ... balke os ki waja se "relief in fear and grief" ka matlab "to burn in hell" ban jaata hai.

So obviously you are wrong......!!!

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Jo mafhoom main ne explain kiya hai that properly accomodates 5:69,2;62 and 7:159 such that k "success" ka matlab "success" he rehta hai aur "maqbooliyat" ka matlab "Maqbooliyat" he rehta hai aur sath he 5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 bhi accomodate ho jaate hain.

Jis matlab ko tum insist karte ho that treats 5;69,2:62 and 7:159 like step children. Jis mafhoom ko tum insist karte ho... not only it contain shallow meanings of "success" and "maqbooliyat" ... balke os ki waja se "relief in fear and grief" ka matlab "to burn in hell" ban jaata hai.

So obviously you are wrong......!!!

5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 main jo kuch b likha wo detail verdict ki base par he jancha jaye ga janab


ANd

Sura 3
85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.


Parhty jao aur sochty jao

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Jo mafhoom main ne explain kiya hai that properly accomodates 5:69,2;62 and 7:159 such that k "success" ka matlab "success" he rehta hai aur "maqbooliyat" ka matlab "Maqbooliyat" he rehta hai aur sath he 5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 bhi accomodate ho jaate hain.

Jis matlab ko tum insist karte ho that treats 5;69,2:62 and 7:159 like step children. Jis mafhoom ko tum insist karte ho... not only it contain shallow meanings of "success" and "maqbooliyat" ... balke os ki waja se "relief in fear and grief" ka matlab "to burn in hell" ban jaata hai.

So obviously you are wrong......!!!

Sura 5

(12. Indeed, Allah took the covenant from the Children of Israel , and We appointed twelve leaders among them. And Allah said: "I am with you if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them, and lend to Allah a good loan, verily, I will remit your sins and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise). But if any of you after this, disbelieved, he has indeed gone astray from the straight way.'')


Allah ny wada liya k Children of Isreal sy
Usk Messengers par eman lao aur unka sath do.

1) Kaya Hazoor SW Allah k Messenger hain? k nai?

usky reward main Allah ny unko Maufi and janat ka wada kia.

2) kaya ub unmain sy koi wada pura kia bina Janat main ja sakta hy

3) jin kogon ny is k baad disbelief kia wo Bhatky hoay hain.

Ap kis base par Unko Nijat yaft ka rahy ho jub tak wo Hazoor SW par eman na lay ain.

kyn k
Is Ayat ke waja sy ya saaf zahir hy k wo tamam jo Children of Isreal jin tak Hazoor SW k Alan-e-Nabowat Pohanc gaya and unhoon ny us sy inkar kia wo Janat k Hakdar nahi.
Kiyn k wo Aik wada khilafi k murtakib hoay aur Janat us waday ki pasdari sy mashroot hy.

is Ayat 5:12 k baad 5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 main sirf wo log shamil ho sakty jin tak Hazoor SW k Alan-e-Nabowat nai pohancha baki koi nai.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You said

The quran is for human understanding and human understanding is developed by the quran.


But you and others are saying that Interprate Quran as per your understanding what if you can not grasp something then translate it as you can feel better.

But it should be not like that at least with Book of GOD

Dear brother please start realising that human error is impossible to eliminate. The best we can do is get to know the rules or formulas and apply them the best we can and leave rest to Allah. We are not expected to be Gods. So long as we do our best that is all Allah wants from us. He is well aware of what he has created. This is why he introduces himself as gracious and merciful.

If you are having difficulty accepting this then the best course of action will be to find a way whereby we could understand the quran error free. Error on our part does not means there is anything wrong with the quran. The quran itself states man has been created in a simple state to develop and improve himself. Man has been created knowing nothing at all. So if one is created knowing nothing at all then obviously he is going to go through a lot of trial error exercises through out his life.

regards and all the best.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 main jo kuch b likha wo detail verdict ki base par he jancha jaye ga janab

5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 main jo bhi likha hai tum beshak os ko na mano. I don't care. Khuda ko bhi koi perwa nahi ho gi. Lakin jab bhi tum log apni ghalat interpretations ki waja se doosri nations k logon se koi bhi ziad.ti karo gy ... I and ppl like me will not support you .... Rather we will stop your hands...!!!

ANd

Sura 3
85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.


Parhty jao aur sochty jao

Don't try to mix irrelevant things. 3:85 main on logon ki baat ho rahi hai jo pehle se Muslim hain aur phir Kisi doosre deen ki taraf matwajja hote hain. Read 3:85 along with 3:86 to fully understand it:

[SIZE=5.2][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور جو شخص اسلام کے سوا کِسی دوسرے دین کو طلب کرے گا تو وہ اس سے مقبول نہ ہوگا اور وہ آخرت میں تباہ کاروں میں سے ہوگا۔ (۸۵) [/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont][/FONT][SIZE=5.2][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]الله تعالیٰ ایسے لوگوں کو کیسے ہدایت کرینگے جو کافر ہوگئے بعد اپنے ایمان لانے کے اور بعد اپنے اقرار کے کہ رسُول سچے ہیں اور (بعد اس کے کہ) ان کو واضح دلائل پہونچ چکے تھے اور الله تعالیٰ ایسے بےڈھنگے لوگوں کو ہدایت نہیں کرتے ۔ (۸۶) [/FONT][/SIZE]​

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Sura 5

(12. Indeed, Allah took the covenant from the Children of Israel , and We appointed twelve leaders among them. And Allah said: "I am with you if you perform the Salah and give the Zakah and believe in My Messengers; honor and assist them, and lend to Allah a good loan, verily, I will remit your sins and admit you to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise). But if any of you after this, disbelieved, he has indeed gone astray from the straight way.'')

Allah ny wada liya k Children of Isreal sy
Usk Messengers par eman lao aur unka sath do.

1) Kaya Hazoor SW Allah k Messenger hain? k nai?

usky reward main Allah ny unko Maufi and janat ka wada kia.

2) kaya ub unmain sy koi wada pura kia bina Janat main ja sakta hy

3) jin kogon ny is k baad disbelief kia wo Bhatky hoay hain.

Ap kis base par Unko Nijat yaft ka rahy ho jub tak wo Hazoor SW par eman na lay ain.

kyn k
Is Ayat ke waja sy ya saaf zahir hy k wo tamam jo Children of Isreal jin tak Hazoor SW k Alan-e-Nabowat Pohanc gaya and unhoon ny us sy inkar kia wo Janat k Hakdar nahi.
Kiyn k wo Aik wada khilafi k murtakib hoay aur Janat us waday ki pasdari sy mashroot hy.

is Ayat 5:12 k baad 5:69, 2:62 aur 7:159 main sirf wo log shamil ho sakty jin tak Hazoor SW k Alan-e-Nabowat nai pohancha baki koi nai.

issi ayyet ko achi tarah samajh lo tum ko 2:62 aur 5:69 ki bhi samajh aa jaye gi. iss ayyet main number of conditions ziada hain. iss ayyet main rewards bhi ziada hain aur positive rewards hain (gardens and rivers underneath).

5:69, 2:62 main siraf basic necessary conditions hain. Reward bhi siraf relief in fear and grief hai. Ye reward positive nahi hai siraf relaxation in negative things hai.

Secondly ...5:12 k end main jo "astray from right path" ka zikar hai wo 'kufar' karne walon k liye hai. 'Kufar' main 'basic conditions' (as mentioned in 2:62,5;69) ki violation bhi shamil ho jaati hai.

Lehaza 5:12 is also in no conflict with 2:62,5;69

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[MENTION=13100]Abdul Allah[/MENTION]

Tum jo bhi kar rahe ho ... agar debate 'win' bhi karte ho tu yahi matlab nikle ga k there are contradictions in Quran. Aqal nahi istimaal kar sakte then at least sharam he kar lo...!!!