اہل علم سے سوال

[Sohail Shuja]

You can't compare the clipping of the nails or trimming hair with circumcision.

Why? give me a logical answer

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Tomorrow, you may ask about references in the Quran to modern technology such as planes, trains, automobiles, the internet, and cell phones.

What is the meaning of you guys saying that Quran is a complete book. By the way, I am not asking about nuclear science here, just a very basic ritual pertaining to all the Abrahamic religions.

اب اگر تجھے کوئی آیت مل نہیں رہی ہے تو یہ کڑک مرغی کی طرح کُڑ کُڑانے کا فائدہ؟
اب خلع کے بارے میں بھی کوئی قرآن کا ریفرنس لے آوٗ۔ یہ تو کوئی سائنس نہیں، اگر طلاق کا مسئلہ قرآن میں اتنی فصاحت سے موجود ہے تو خلع کہاں ہے؟ کیا عورت کو خلع لینے کا حق ہے یا نہیں؟​

If you choose not to accept it, that is not my concern.

Why don't you guys just first start to practice what you preach?
You are free to choose for yourself what seems logical to you and let others believe in what is logical for them.

اور روئے زمین پر فساد پھیلانے والے نہ بنو​

 

[Wake up Pak]

What is the meaning of you guys saying that Quran is a complete book. By the way, I am not asking about nuclear science here, just a very basic ritual pertaining to all the Abrahamic religions.

اب اگر تجھے کوئی آیت مل نہیں رہی ہے تو یہ کڑک مرغی کی طرح کُڑ کُڑانے کا فائدہ؟
اب خلع کے بارے میں بھی کوئی قرآن کا ریفرنس لے آوٗ۔ یہ تو کوئی سائنس نہیں، اگر طلاق کا مسئلہ قرآن میں اتنی فصاحت سے موجود ہے تو خلع کہاں ہے؟ کیا عورت کو خلع لینے کا حق ہے یا نہیں؟​

Why don't you guys just first start to practice what you preach?
You are free to choose for yourself what seems logical to you and let others believe in what is logical for them.

اور روئے زمین پر فساد پھیلانے والے نہ بنو​

Why are you morons to intervene in the logical and rational conservation/debate if you can't understand the very basics of the religion. Keep on following your fake imams of Sahih Sitta or Asul Arba.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Why are you morons to intervene in the logical and rational conservation/debate if you can't understand the very basics of the religion. Keep on following your fake imams of Sahih Sitta or Asul Arba.

Same can be said about you, you contorted ninnies -- Who are you to intervene in others rational debate if no one is asking you about it?

You are free to do/believe whatever you like and the same liberty has to be enjoyed by others too, lest someone asks you to explain your point of view. otherwise, don't try to bite everyone with your rabid tooth, you will get kicked in your mouth.


Say, your religion is for you and mine is for me

You want a debate? first learn how to have a debate.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Same can be said about you, you contorted ninnies -- Who are you to intervene in others rational debate if no one is asking you about it?

You are free to do/believe whatever you like and the same liberty has to be enjoyed by others too, lest someone asks you to explain your point of view. otherwise, don't try to bite everyone with your rabid tooth, you will get kicked in your mouth.


Say, your religion is for you and mine is for me

You want a debate? first learn how to have a debate.

I only debate with sane people, not with a person whose mindset is of a child and an IQ below freezing point. Next time, don't stick your filthy nose in a debate unless you learn the very basics of the religion.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

I only debate with sane people, not with a person whose mindset is of a child and an IQ below freezing point. Next time, don't stick your filthy nose in a debate unless you learn the very basics of the religion.

Go to post #41 on this thread.
Show it to a psychiatrist.
He will start treatment of your OCD & Cognitive Dissonance

 

[Wake up Pak]

Go to post #41 on this thread.
Show it to a psychiatrist.
He will start treatment of your OCD & Cognitive Dissonance

In that post, did I tag you? You seem to require a psychiatrist, not me because it appears that you have an incurable mental illness for which there is no known treatment.
May God have mercy on you!

 

[Sohail Shuja]

In that post, did I tag you? You seem to require a psychiatrist, not me because it appears that you have an incurable mental illness for which there is no known treatment.
May God have mercy on you!

Just show the post to the psychiatrist & let him decide. If he wants to contact me, then here I am. But if he starts something with you, then try to submit to the reality.
You know well that I can retort with even heavier verbal blows in response to your incitement (i.e why you did not tag me, but couldn't help yourself from responding-- typical of OCD).
But, I am much stronger than that -- I have the ability to stick to my aim and guidance I received from my Books

اور روئے زمین پر فساد پھیلانے والے مت بنو
کہہ دو (اے نبیؐ) کہ تمھارا دین تمھارے لیئے اور میرا دین میرے لیئے
اور بلاوٗ انھیں دین کی جانب، بھلائی سے​

 

[Wake up Pak]

Just show the post to the psychiatrist & let him decide. If he wants to contact me, then here I am. But if he starts something with you, then try to submit to the reality.
You know well that I can retort with even heavier verbal blows in response to your incitement (i.e why you did not tag me, but couldn't help yourself from responding-- typical of OCD).
But, I am much stronger than that -- I have the ability to stick to my aim and guidance I received from my Books

اور روئے زمین پر فساد پھیلانے والے مت بنو
کہہ دو (اے نبیؐ) کہ تمھارا دین تمھارے لیئے اور میرا دین میرے لیئے
اور بلاوٗ انھیں دین کی جانب، بھلائی سے​

You're posting the same meaningless things every time. You have an inflated ego and think that since you read some books written by Majoosi narrators, you are an expert on Allah's Deen.
You are quoting a verse from the Quran, yet you are hypocritical and even reject the verses from the Quran.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

ego and think that since you read some books written by Majoosi narrators, you are an expert on Allah's Deen.
You are quoting a verse from the Quran, yet you are hypocritical and even reject the verses from the Quran.

There goes your Freudian slip -- You think only you are an expert on Allah's Deen and are tasked to correct everyone (or make everyone believe as you do) and there exists to Authority except you on Deen or the Quran. Only you interpretation is the right one.

You think you are a great service to the deen and Allah, in this way.

Reiterating for your own and your family's mental welfare: Get help, before its too late. This thing is getting you paranoid.

 

[Wake up Pak]

There goes your Freudian slip -- You think only you are an expert on Allah's Deen and are tasked to correct everyone (or make everyone believe as you do) and there exists to Authority except you on Deen or the Quran. Only you interpretation is the right one.

You think you are a great service to the deen and Allah, in this way.

Reiterating for your own and your family's mental welfare: Get help, before its too late. This thing is getting you paranoid.

Did I ever say I was the expert on Deen, idiot? I'm merely a student of the Quran, but from what I've learned so far, those who add books created by Majoosi to Allah's Deen are called Mushriks because they reject the Quran's clear verses that assure us that it is complete and detailed.
I can tell you pathetic minion's frustration as you resort to my family's mental welfare.
Grow up kiddo before you go bonkers.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Did I ever say I was the expert on Deen, idiot?

Implicitly you do say that. You think that I am posing to be an expert and then you cannot help yourself to jump up and tell me that you are a bigger authority over Quran & Deen. You just can't help it .... do you? it is because of your OCD.

Come on, call me whatever ... I am bigger than that. I can take a hit, but your frailty can't.

I'm merely a student of the Quran, but from what I've learned so far,

Oh please, now don't try to cover up under the garb of social jargon "I am merely a student and bla bla...." You said you have "learned", this shows that you consider yourself more learned than all the rest. That is why you come challenging them with your version of understanding.... rather a sane mind, if engaged in a debate, listens, interprets, understands and then form a counter argument. He just does not impose their self on others and call out the rest as liars... just because their thinking does not coincide with his. That is a disengagement from the basic message of the Quran, the very subject you are talking about.

Then there appears to be a childhood trauma linked with it. You are, in your mind, trying to fight that trauma in your head, inflicted upon you by some hadithist, long time ago. You felt paralyzed and controlled under his/her/their influence. This is why you tend to satiate your urge to make up for that feeling by "destroying the opponent" (the hadithist in this case). This gives you a sense of victory and satiate your hunger for regain of control.

those who add books created by Majoosi to Allah's Deen are called Mushriks because they reject the Quran's clear verses that assure us that it is complete and detailed.

Yes, that is the excuse you have for your actions or what you call your rationale of self righteousness.

Lets say (hypothetically), even if I am a mushrik, what goes to your father in that respect? why you feel the urge to correct me?

Is my belief (whatever it is) hampering you from anything?

For any psychologically normal person .... your deen is for you and mine is for me. It is the basic tenet of freedom. Unless my actions are not interfering with your life or your freedom, then I have the right to hold any opinion, whatsoever. You can have a debate with me with reasons, but not abuses.

Now what happens here is that you cannot resist not to prove anyone wrong (even if he is not even engaging with you in a conversation). This is the little man inside you, who needs to feel big by overpowering others. Whereas, the message of Islam is "salamti/peace". But you will pick on fights, even where no one is even considering you. You need to come out big .... to massage the ego of that weak little person inside you.

I can tell you pathetic minion's frustration as you resort to my family's mental welfare.

I am not sure whether what you wrote makes sense to an ordinary person, but by understanding your case, I can very well know your state of mind while you wrote this.

Let me tell you one thing -- I, even with the worst of my opponents, have never stooped to the level of abusing or jesting on their families. Take my record of past 13 years on the forum.

What I said earlier, was totally in good faith. I intend to tell you that you are also making your family suffer because of your condition. I can imagine how you interfere in their lives with this air of self righteousness and coercing them into doing things that are right according to your own precepts. Imagine, you have become the same monster that you have been fighting for all your life -- the same hadithist which overpowered you in your early life.

Quran .... however, never asks you to force people into Islam. It tells you to display your good deeds and compassion, so that people may get an inspiration from you. Otherwise, leave them in peace, for they have to alone in their graves and you will be alone in yours. So, think about the darkness of your own grave and just let others do whatever they do, unless they come messing up your life.

However, I don't see any reason why my reply to the thread starter had anything to do with you or your friend CitizenX. But you take my belief as an assault over deen, as the deen is solely your property and only you are tasked to fight for it. This is cognitive dissociation. There is a big world out there, only if you care to come out of the little room where you have locked yourself up and let some sun shine on you.

Grow up kiddo before you go bonkers.

Again ... it just makes you feel big by calling me a "kiddo". Ah .... very typical of someone fighting a childhood trauma.

But, do you really understand how grown up people act like? can you show me? does calling me a kiddo qualifies you to be a bigger person?
and that too in a debate, where you are professing the teachings of Islam?

and then look at your friend Citizen X, who writes ayaats in one post and then abuses in the very next one -- blowing hot and cold in the same breath.

Tell me my dear, for an ideal person, who is professing the true teachings of Islam, how his personality should appear? controlling, abusing, belittling others, verbally belligerent?
Or
Calm, focused, logical, clear headed, forgiving, patient, giving people space, respecting their beliefs as he wants his beliefs to be respected in reciprocation .....

Tell me, which pesonality is mor befitting and then look at yourself and your friend Citizen X.

Although, for him, other reasons are at play than you. I will get to them some times later. But for you, I see that there is still some bleak ray of hope, though it is diminishing quite fast.

 

[Panthar_pk]

Jitna jhootay ilzam aur jhoot tum ne is thread mein bol diya 100% confirm hogaya hai ke tum bhi ek patwari ho.

look whose talking

 

[Panthar_pk]

Again nothing but lies and more lies! I only ever quoted Quranic ayats in this thread and never quoted any mullah.

lol main you are worse than maryam aurangzeb

 

[Wake up Pak]

Implicitly you do say that. You think that I am posing to be an expert and then you cannot help yourself to jump up and tell me that you are a bigger authority over Quran & Deen. You just can't help it .... do you? it is because of your OCD.

Come on, call me whatever ... I am bigger than that. I can take a hit, but your frailty can't.


Oh please, now don't try to cover up under the garb of social jargon "I am merely a student and bla bla...." You said you have "learned", this shows that you consider yourself more learned than all the rest. That is why you come challenging them with your version of understanding.... rather a sane mind, if engaged in a debate, listens, interprets, understands and then form a counter argument. He just does not impose their self on others and call out the rest as liars... just because their thinking does not coincide with his. That is a disengagement from the basic message of the Quran, the very subject you are talking about.

Then there appears to be a childhood trauma linked with it. You are, in your mind, trying to fight that trauma in your head, inflicted upon you by some hadithist, long time ago. You felt paralyzed and controlled under his/her/their influence. This is why you tend to satiate your urge to make up for that feeling by "destroying the opponent" (the hadithist in this case). This gives you a sense of victory and satiate your hunger for regain of control.


Yes, that is the excuse you have for your actions or what you call your rationale of self righteousness.

Lets say (hypothetically), even if I am a mushrik, what goes to your father in that respect? why you feel the urge to correct me?

Is my belief (whatever it is) hampering you from anything?

For any psychologically normal person .... your deen is for you and mine is for me. It is the basic tenet of freedom. Unless my actions are not interfering with your life or your freedom, then I have the right to hold any opinion, whatsoever. You can have a debate with me with reasons, but not abuses.

Now what happens here is that you cannot resist not to prove anyone wrong (even if he is not even engaging with you in a conversation). This is the little man inside you, who needs to feel big by overpowering others. Whereas, the message of Islam is "salamti/peace". But you will pick on fights, even where no one is even considering you. You need to come out big .... to massage the ego of that weak little person inside you.


I am not sure whether what you wrote makes sense to an ordinary person, but by understanding your case, I can very well know your state of mind while you wrote this.

Let me tell you one thing -- I, even with the worst of my opponents, have never stooped to the level of abusing or jesting on their families. Take my record of past 13 years on the forum.

What I said earlier, was totally in good faith. I intend to tell you that you are also making your family suffer because of your condition. I can imagine how you interfere in their lives with this air of self righteousness and coercing them into doing things that are right according to your own precepts. Imagine, you have become the same monster that you have been fighting for all your life -- the same hadithist which overpowered you in your early life.

Quran .... however, never asks you to force people into Islam. It tells you to display your good deeds and compassion, so that people may get an inspiration from you. Otherwise, leave them in peace, for they have to alone in their graves and you will be alone in yours. So, think about the darkness of your own grave and just let others do whatever they do, unless they come messing up your life.

However, I don't see any reason why my reply to the thread starter had anything to do with you or your friend CitizenX. But you take my belief as an assault over deen, as the deen is solely your property and only you are tasked to fight for it. This is cognitive dissociation. There is a big world out there, only if you care to come out of the little room where you have locked yourself up and let some sun shine on you.


Again ... it just makes you feel big by calling me a "kiddo". Ah .... very typical of someone fighting a childhood trauma.

But, do you really understand how grown up people act like? can you show me? does calling me a kiddo qualifies you to be a bigger person?
and that too in a debate, where you are professing the teachings of Islam?

and then look at your friend Citizen X, who writes ayaats in one post and then abuses in the very next one -- blowing hot and cold in the same breath.

Tell me my dear, for an ideal person, who is professing the true teachings of Islam, how his personality should appear? controlling, abusing, belittling others, verbally belligerent?
Or
Calm, focused, logical, clear headed, forgiving, patient, giving people space, respecting their beliefs as he wants his beliefs to be respected in reciprocation .....

Tell me, which pesonality is mor befitting and then look at yourself and your friend Citizen X.

Although, for him, other reasons are at play than you. I will get to them some times later. But for you, I see that there is still some bleak ray of hope, though it is diminishing quite fast.

Instead of answering your mumbo jumbo gibberish post, this fits you perfectly.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Instead of answering your mumbo jumbo gibberish post, this fits you perfectly.

Well, that is the first good lesson you have learned -- to tame a bit of yourself while responding.

You are not totally useless and neither a bad example. Fight up with your problems and you will be a good example in the future. You can be an example of strife, awareness, sustained effort and success.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Well, that is the first good lesson you have learned -- to tame a bit of yourself while responding.

You are not totally useless and neither a bad example. Fight up with your problems and you will be a good example in the future. You can be an example of strife, awareness, sustained effort and success.

"I am aware of whom I should stand up for and whom I shouldn't. My main challenge lies with individuals who are unwilling to consider alternative perspectives and have a closed mind. When it comes to the teachings of Islam, it's important to know where to draw the line. Only after grasping the fundamental principles of the Quran can one comprehend the differences between the Quran and the man-made books of Majoosis.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

"I am aware of whom I should stand up for and whom I shouldn't.

My main challenge lies with individuals who are unwilling to consider alternative perspectives and have a closed mind. When it comes to the teachings of Islam,

May I ask why it is YOUR CHALLENGE? are you the thaikaiydaar of Islam? sole proprietor?
People, whatever they believe for themselves are solely responsible for their deeds.
Who do you think you are? a messiah?
Are you authorized for the correction of their mistakes?
What or who gave you the authority?

it's important to know where to draw the line.

It really is and any sane person draws a line within his personal area -- which means that if someone comes up to you saying that what you believe is false, then you are at liberty to express your thinking. Not like when anyone else is discussing his ideology with a third person. So, you better redraw your lines.
But you cannot help it, because of your OCD.

Only after grasping the fundamental principles of the Quran can one comprehend the differences between the Quran and the man-made books of Majoosis.

Tell this to someone who is asking you about your beliefs. Since no one here ever questioned your beliefs, so you better shove your understanding to the holy corners of your mind and act in your life according to them. Give people their due respect and liberty. It also is the fundamental teaching of Islam and Quran.

Now let us analyze the very example in front of us at hand. Look at how the thread starter has posed his question. He is not questioning anyone's beliefs, nor passing judgements as if he is the God and/or the ultimate authority. He has respectfully put up his query and is patiently listening to every one's ideas about it. Moreover, he has not said anything abusive to anyone's beliefs, rather has brought up his question to a thoughtful note. Therefore, anyone who is responding to him is respectful in his response, even though holding a different belief than him.

Now compare your and your friend Citizen X's way of response to the rest.

You may have learned many things about Islam, Quran, Hadith and/or whatever. But what you still have to learn is the manner of carrying out a debate and act upon the true teachings of Islam by yourself -- Making yourself an inspiring example who is willingly followed by others or at least held respectably in high esteem.

But your cognitive dissonance is making this difficult for you. Because when you start mouthing your ideals with a rabid tooth, you do not realize that you are yourself acting in contrast to the teachings of Quran
اور لوگوں سے خوش اسلوبی سے بات کرو
بلاوٗ انکو دین کی جانب، بھلائی سے

Now tell me, isn't that a FUNDAMENTAL message from Quran about the manners of debate?

 

[Wake up Pak]

May I ask why it is YOUR CHALLENGE? are you the thaikaiydaar of Islam? sole proprietor?
People, whatever they believe for themselves are solely responsible for their deeds.
Who do you think you are? a messiah?
Are you authorized for the correction of their mistakes?
What or who gave you the authority?


It really is and any sane person draws a line within his personal area -- which means that if someone comes up to you saying that what you believe is false, then you are at liberty to express your thinking. Not like when anyone else is discussing his ideology with a third person. So, you better redraw your lines.
But you cannot help it, because of your OCD.


Tell this to someone who is asking you about your beliefs. Since no one here ever questioned your beliefs, so you better shove your understanding to the holy corners of your mind and act in your life according to them. Give people their due respect and liberty. It also is the fundamental teaching of Islam and Quran.

Now let us analyze the very example in front of us at hand. Look at how the thread starter has posed his question. He is not questioning anyone's beliefs, nor passing judgements as if he is the God and/or the ultimate authority. He has respectfully put up his query and is patiently listening to every one's ideas about it. Moreover, he has not said anything abusive to anyone's beliefs, rather has brought up his question to a thoughtful note. Therefore, anyone who is responding to him is respectful in his response, even though holding a different belief than him.

Now compare your and your friend Citizen X's way of response to the rest.

You may have learned many things about Islam, Quran, Hadith and/or whatever. But what you still have to learn is the manner of carrying out a debate and act upon the true teachings of Islam by yourself -- Making yourself an inspiring example who is willingly followed by others or at least held respectably in high esteem.

But your cognitive dissonance is making this difficult for you. Because when you start mouthing your ideals with a rabid tooth, you do not realize that you are yourself acting in contrast to the teachings of Quran
اور لوگوں سے خوش اسلوبی سے بات کرو
بلاوٗ انکو دین کی جانب، بھلائی سے

Now tell me, isn't that a FUNDAMENTAL message from Quran about the manners of debate?

As usual, there is no substance or any logic in your posts. I wonder if you are under any stress or if someone has harmed you mentally.
Is the Quran complete and detailed or not? If you still believe that you have to refer to Majoosi books of crap for the answers, then you are challenging the Allah Almighty.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

have to refer to Majoosi books of .

اگر تیری نسلی قبریں کھودیں تو اندر سے بندروں کی پوجا کرنے والے ہندو نہ نکل آئیں۔​