مانئ استاد اے گل کوئی مننے والی تے نہیں

[RajaRawal111]

ok lets make life simple.

ignore coal plants... ignore NHA for time being and just focus on the plants your are talking about.

i am not claiming they are not efficient, nor i am claiming they are useless. you started your arguement with the word "profitable" and generating money. most of the government sector projects does not qualify to this criteria. for example your institutions such as army, courts, policing, hospitals, educational institutions (excluding private sector where they aim for making profit from every business) are called public services and they are always a burden on govt, that is governments collect taxes to run those institutions

now when you say power generation plant is profitable, i am only trying to explain that it is not. what happens is there are power generation companies or we call them IPPs. they install their plants and sign agreements with govt to sell the produced electricity to govt on a certain market rate. now government buys from those IPPs at a higher rate, and sell them to consumer at a much lower rate (subsidized rate). all those IPPs are profitable because there production is sold under government guarantee and they are profitable, however its a loss for govt to buy expensive ane sell cheaper

now the plants you are talking about have same issue. cost per unit of electricity is far more and it is always subsidized by tax payer. plant is efficient does not mean its producing low cost energy, and specially after post pandemic era when fuel prices sky rocketed and the pkr usd rate is falling with exponential gravity. so despite increasing unit rate for consumer, the prices of those plants are still higher than the average unit cost chared to consumer and these IPPs are not responsible for any line losses.

pakistan stopped planning for dams just because they found it easier to buy fuel from arabs and specially when there are kickbacks so we lost almost 40 years in that era. post ayub khan till musharaf. no dams... and we are now paying the price... but thats not the topic of our argument

what is good about pmln. at least they installed plants, costly, yes but better than having no electricity.
the bad, the long term planning. for example agreeing to high charges with IPPs for longer terms. it should be only a short term solution but having them as long term solution is what destroyed the economy. Dar artificially kept $ low for the very same reason so that cost of energy generation will be kept in control but it destroyed the rest of the economy.

you dont need to agree but i just tried to explain your profitability myth. open to discuss NHA if you want

We can just stay on just the power plant for now.
I have shared the balance sheets of QATPL. It is generating profit from its "fuel feed to Energy out" sequence. The loss Govt is getting is on the overall thermal power sector. The biggest problem on this is our management. Look at the DISCO performance in collecting the bills. Even during the PTI times, Peshawar was one of the worst performers. So are the Sindh DISCOs. The theft of the power and our line losses have to be reduced which is totally Governing and a little bit of Engineering issues.

In the ideal world, there should not be any subsidy given to people al all. If fuel gets expansive then power should get expensive. That is what I say, that is what you are saying and that is what IMF tells us. But we have Opposition Munafiqat when that happens. And that Munafiqat comes from Imran Khan, Noon league and PPP. All are equal in that Munafiqat.
At least you agreed with expansive power than no power - thanks for that
For Dams the is a very high misconception and it has become a buzzword for all of the drawing-room critiques.
I am putting another hard question on you is that "" Please tell me where we can build a major DAM IN PAKISTAN"" Please give me the answer. point out locations.
And see my next post

 

[RajaRawal111]

ok lets make life simple.

I know my question is hard as you need a thorough knowledge of the geography and topology of Pakistan. Neither I have that knowledge. But I have learned form my teachers at University that Pakistan is full. We have built all the dams and barages that we can.
We can build spillways like Neelum Jehlum but we don't have any natural geographical place left to build a major Dam.

I know you are puzzled that I am not talking about Kala Bagh. So let me surprise you if you did not know about it.
The real problem (or bone of contention) on Kala Bagh Dam is not only the water distribution between Punjab and Sindh. We have built enough barrages and Dams on Sindh river that we are bearly maintaining the "Static head pressure of water" in the river. What it means that we are maintaining enough flow in Sindh that we have flow from river to the Arabians ocean. If we build another major dam on this river. We will completely kill the flow in the winter season. You know what will happen when that happens ???
The ocean will flow back into our fertile lands. You let the ocean throw its water on the land then you are done with that land forever.
Please be sympathetic and listen to what Poor Sindhis are telling you. Don't be cruel to them and push for this dam.

 

[stranger]

We can just stay on just the power plant for now.
I have shared the balance sheets of QATPL. It is generating profit from its "fuel feed to Energy out" sequence. The loss Govt is getting is on the overall thermal power sector. The biggest problem on this is our management. Look at the DISCO performance in collecting the bills. Even during the PTI times, Peshawar was one of the worst performers. So are the Sindh DISCOs. The theft of the power and our line losses have to be reduced which is totally Governing and a little bit of Engineering issues.

In the ideal world, there should not be any subsidy given to people al all. If fuel gets expansive then power should get expensive. That is what I say, that is what you are saying and that is what IMF tells us. But we have Opposition Munafiqat when that happens. And that Munafiqat comes from Imran Khan, Noon league and PPP. All are equal in that Munafiqat.
At least you agreed with expansive power than no power - thanks for that
For Dams the is a very high misconception and it has become a buzzword for all of the drawing-room critiques.
I am putting another hard question on you is that "" Please tell me where we can build a major DAM IN PAKISTAN"" Please give me the answer. point out locations.
And see my next post

i am happy you stopped calling them profitable as nothing is profitable when there are subsidies. my point was the failure cannot be put on PTI when there were no planning in last 40 years (bhutto onwards) as no major dam was planned and those which were planned became a victim by politicians we now call them PDM (they are together to get rid of PTI but cannot agree on a dam - a national issue). lets stop talking about politics

you want me to identify locations for dams? am i an engineer? just go to wapda website and check out all the locations (WAPDA)

all i am saying is failure of planning for dams in last 40 years.. and its most of political era apart from musharaf....

to reduce subsidies, yet to contain the inflation, we must find ways to generate cheap electricity and that is failure of past governments. Can you share any number how much money pk govt have to give IPPs annually? the so called power producers, the plants we had in last 40 years...

we not only have subsidies issue, but also tax revenues issue.. and corruption on top of that... so all the projects which are subsidized including metros, roads are a burden on economy because we take loans to build them... we subsidise them.. and then we pay interest on loans... and then we take more loans to service loans and pay subsidies

 

[RajaRawal111]

i am happy you stopped calling them profitable as nothing is profitable when there are subsidies. my point was the failure cannot be put on PTI when there were no planning in last 40 years (bhutto onwards) as no major dam was planned and those which were planned became a victim by politicians we now call them PDM (they are together to get rid of PTI but cannot agree on a dam - a national issue). lets stop talking about politics

you want me to identify locations for dams? am i an engineer? just go to wapda website and check out all the locations (WAPDA)

all i am saying is failure of planning for dams in last 40 years.. and its most of political era apart from musharaf....

to reduce subsidies, yet to contain the inflation, we must find ways to generate cheap electricity and that is failure of past governments. Can you share any number how much money pk govt have to give IPPs annually? the so called power producers, the plants we had in last 40 years...

we not only have subsidies issue, but also tax revenues issue.. and corruption on top of that... so all the projects which are subsidized including metros, roads are a burden on economy because we take loans to build them... we subsidise them.. and then we pay interest on loans... and then we take more loans to service loans and pay subsidies

Are we dont with our topic?
I dont want to keep on opening more and more
Now we are drifting into metros and taxation-like things.

 

[stranger]

Are we dont with our topic?
I dont want to keep on opening more and more
Now we are drifting into metros and taxation-like things.

just mentioned those things in context of subsidies and economic burden on govt. mentioned politicians for poor planning and same is for metros.. just to explain the issue. consider them as a side note

i am still on topic

 

[RajaRawal111]

just mentioned those things in context of subsidies and economic burden on govt. mentioned politicians for poor planning and same is for metros.. just to explain the issue. consider them as a side note

i am still on topic

As I said, the Good Economical Situation is that there should not be any Subsidies when your economic system is under multiple Stresses.
But All over the world, Govts stimulate economies with rebates. It is not unusual. Your Donky was no different than anybody else in that.

The pubic transport in the major metropolis are always subsidized. This is the modern Civic Model. It is done to keep the pressure off the roads and keep the Environment cleaner. Every country does that. Why you dont know about that? It is surprising for me.

On the real ground. Just in my city (Pindi-Islamabad) a poor Clark working in Secretariat rides on Metro from Saddar and reached the workplace in 40 minutes. Spends only 30 Rs one way.

If he does not. the other public transport will cost him 500 Rs and will take him 2 hours to reach. Would you snatch 1000 Rs a day or 6- Rs a day from a poor man who earns 30000 to 40000 Rs per month. You choose it please.

 

[stranger]

As I said, the Good Economical Situation is that there should not be any Subsidies when your economic system is under multiple Stresses.
But All over the world, Govts stimulate economies with rebates. It is not unusual. Your Donky was no different than anybody else in that.

The pubic transport in the major metropolis are always subsidized. This is the modern Civic Model. It is done to keep the pressure off the roads and keep the Environment cleaner. Every country does that. Why you dont know about that? It is surprising for me.

On the real ground. Just in my city (Pindi-Islamabad) a poor Clark working in Secretariat rides on Metro from Saddar and reached the workplace in 40 minutes. Spends only 30 Rs one way.

If he does not. the other public transport will cost him 500 Rs and will take him 2 hours to reach. Would you snatch 1000 Rs a day or 6- Rs a day from a poor man who earns 30000 to 40000 Rs per month. You choose it please.

and patwari is using the same language again... may be donky is your mariams bed friend?

first you said no politics.. then no subsidy.. no subsidy was your opinion.. not mine.... i started my argument that public services are responsibility of govt... but poor planning is the fault of your elite political parties since bhutto


i guess you are now converting back to patwari-ism again.. no problem.. you are free man no one can stop you from being an idiot

 

[RajaRawal111]

and patwari is using the same language again... may be donky is your mariams bed friend?

first you said no politics.. then no subsidy.. no subsidy was your opinion.. not mine.... i started my argument that public services are responsibility of govt... but poor planning is the fault of your elite political parties since bhutto


i guess you are now converting back to patwari-ism again.. no problem.. you are free man no one can stop you from being an idiot

Thanks, I am good in my Putwari domain. To me it is the domain in which you live in reality and is not part of any cult.
I want to wind it up now because we are just going in circles. And you are clinging to every new thing you can. Yet you are totally ignoring the performance of your Donkey. I have shown you his total performance in post No-28.
Anyways have a good day. We will see each other somewhere else. It is getting late for me.

 

[stranger]

Thanks, I am good in my Putwari domain. To me it is the domain in which you live in reality and is not part of any cult.
I want to wind it up now because we are just going in circles. And you are clinging to every new thing you can. Yet you are totally ignoring the performance of your Donkey. I have shown you his total performance in post No-28.
Anyways have a good day. We will see each other somewhere else. It is getting late for me.

typical patwari can never use brain.. kabhi zameer jagay to sochna zaroor agar abhi thora bohat bhi zinda ho to. good luck