Check Surah Zumar!
Can Dead Hear in Their Grave? (کیا مردے اپنی قبر میں سنتے ہیں)
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Check Surah Zumar!
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Babadeena, Yaar please help me here:
You claim to call Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalam as Habib Allah is not in Quran!
But there is something else in Quran:
خُذُوهُ فَاعْتِلُوهُ إِلَىٰ سَوَاءِ الْجَحِيمِ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{47**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:47] Seize him, then drag him down into the middle of the hell;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:47] (And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:47] (A voice will cry: "Seize ye him and drag him into the midst of the Blazing Fire![/SIZE]
ثُمَّ صُبُّوا فَوْقَ رَأْسِهِ مِنْ عَذَابِ الْحَمِيمِ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{48**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:48] Then pour above his head of the torment of the boiling water:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:48] Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:48] "Then pour over his head the Penalty of Boiling Water,[/SIZE]
ذُقْ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْكَرِيمُ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{49**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:49] Taste; you forsooth are the mighty, the honorable:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:49] (Saying): Taste! Lo! thou wast forsooth the mighty, the noble![/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:49] "Taste thou (this)! Truly wast thou mighty, full of honour![/SIZE]
إِنَّ هَٰذَا مَا كُنْتُمْ بِهِ تَمْتَرُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{50**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:50] Surely this is what you disputed about.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:50] Lo! this is that whereof ye used to doubt.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:50] "Truly this is what ye used to doubt!"[/SIZE]
May I call those who shall be punished in Hell Fire as Azizul Kareem!!!!
If Allah is Aziz ul Kareem or not?
Then would it be SHIRK or not?
Please Sir guide us.
You claim to call Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalam as Habib Allah is not in Quran!
But there is something else in Quran:
خُذُوهُ فَاعْتِلُوهُ إِلَىٰ سَوَاءِ الْجَحِيمِ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{47**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:47] Seize him, then drag him down into the middle of the hell;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:47] (And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:47] (A voice will cry: "Seize ye him and drag him into the midst of the Blazing Fire![/SIZE]
ثُمَّ صُبُّوا فَوْقَ رَأْسِهِ مِنْ عَذَابِ الْحَمِيمِ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{48**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:48] Then pour above his head of the torment of the boiling water:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:48] Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:48] "Then pour over his head the Penalty of Boiling Water,[/SIZE]
ذُقْ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْكَرِيمُ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{49**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:49] Taste; you forsooth are the mighty, the honorable:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:49] (Saying): Taste! Lo! thou wast forsooth the mighty, the noble![/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:49] "Taste thou (this)! Truly wast thou mighty, full of honour![/SIZE]
إِنَّ هَٰذَا مَا كُنْتُمْ بِهِ تَمْتَرُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{50**[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 44:50] Surely this is what you disputed about.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 44:50] Lo! this is that whereof ye used to doubt.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 44:50] "Truly this is what ye used to doubt!"[/SIZE]
May I call those who shall be punished in Hell Fire as Azizul Kareem!!!!
If Allah is Aziz ul Kareem or not?
Then would it be SHIRK or not?
Please Sir guide us.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Tell me one thing.
What do you believe about PEOPLE KILLED IN WAY OF ALLAH!
Are they alive or not?
If you answer this question then I will quote AYATS which says MANY prophets were killed in way of Allah!!!!!!!
What would you say then?
Please, Please discussion on the topic. Do not derail now by injecting other things.
You very well know what is meant by Aziz Karim in this verse. If not
check the poetry written for Saddam Hussain when he was in government.
but this is not the topic please.
The question is how:
a) Yaqub(as) dead, Suleman(as) dead. and our Prophet was categorically told
that you are going to die.
We are discussing "Prophets are alive in their grave"", do not worry
Alhamdulliah, it is the extreme favour of my Allah, I can
find from quran within seconds. Please be on topic, do you still
believe that "Prophets are alive in their grave... and...." where you
put all those alims who wrote such things and where you put those
things vis-a-vis Quran?
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Lol, Yaar Babadeena:
When you don't have any answer then you say DON'T DERAIL!
Lol!
brov you asked me question and I was responding to that.
Isn't Sir.
Come to topic:
Define Death.
ACCORDING TO QURAN, NOW IF YOU BRING YOUR OWN PHILOSOPHY THEN I SHALL "MIND"
Lol.
@Viela Mast,
I suppose and your post manifests amply that you have no "reasonable and substantial"
proof for your claim. OK Take the help of Cheeko and Company. I will join
latter.
In the meantime check Surah Zumar. I intentionally not pasted. Ok take time
dig something else to prove that :
''PROPHETS ARE ALIVE IN THEIR GRAVES.............."
and think of those consequences when people wrote things from themselves
and attribute those things to Allah.
cu.
Raaz
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Ref: Post 36
There r lots of people who do not believe in Allah even, no concern about them.
But when we go to the Masjid Nabvi, and the grave of Muhammad pbuh , we say ' Aslam O alika Ya rasool Allah '
So salm and Darood for dead people? and dead prophet.
The person who is saying these words , have no heart and mind. May allah save us from these stupid concepts.
Sorry I am worried now.
Science has proved a lot, our eyes and ears could see a certain wavelength.
science has proved that a child listen certain wavelength in womb. but could a person make listen a baby in a normal way in the womb.
There r ways to do so.
And same thing Quran is saying that o Prophet u could not make listen even the alive persons who do not want to be, their difference is like difference of dead and alive persons.
like they dont respond in normal life.
But When Allah wants, Hazrat EEsa make the deads alive , by the order of Allah Tala, by saying , قم بے ازن الله
Anyway, this is concept of life. how u take it.
There r lots of people who do not believe in Allah even, no concern about them.
But when we go to the Masjid Nabvi, and the grave of Muhammad pbuh , we say ' Aslam O alika Ya rasool Allah '
So salm and Darood for dead people? and dead prophet.
The person who is saying these words , have no heart and mind. May allah save us from these stupid concepts.
Sorry I am worried now.
Science has proved a lot, our eyes and ears could see a certain wavelength.
science has proved that a child listen certain wavelength in womb. but could a person make listen a baby in a normal way in the womb.
There r ways to do so.
And same thing Quran is saying that o Prophet u could not make listen even the alive persons who do not want to be, their difference is like difference of dead and alive persons.
like they dont respond in normal life.
But When Allah wants, Hazrat EEsa make the deads alive , by the order of Allah Tala, by saying , قم بے ازن الله
Anyway, this is concept of life. how u take it.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
@Babadeena
You again CHEATED.
Lol!
I asked you to DEFINE DEATH!
You again CHEATED.
Lol!
I asked you to DEFINE DEATH!
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Raaz
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
What u said ? Santos Dios ? what is that Jesus ?
Raaz
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
It is very sad that if Sufi couldn't find Authentic Haeeths to justify their cult, which is based on fairy tales and dreams of their sufi Saints, they would have no fear of Allah to quote fabricated Hadeeths.
Following is the complete Isnaad and Text of the narration you qouted above:
فقد روى أبو الحسن علي بن إبراهيم بن عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الكرخي عن علي بن محمد بن علي ، حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن الهيثم الطائي ، قال : حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن سلمة بن كهيل عن أبي صادق عن علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه قال بثلاثة أيام فرمى بنفسه إلى قبرrقدم علينا أعرابي بعدما دفنا رسول الله ، وحثى على رأسه من ترابه ، وقال : يا رسول الله قلت فسمعنا قولك ،rالنبي وعينا عن الله عز وجل فما وعينا عنك ، وكان فيما انزل الله عز وجل عليك : وقد ظلمت نفسي وجئتك تستغفر لي فنودي من القرب أنه قد غفر لك
Below please find the analysis of the narration by Imaam Ibn Abdil Haadi
“This is a Munkar narration, fabricated and a narration invented made, it is not suitable to base on it, and it is not correct to turn to it, and its Isnad is darkness over darkness, and Al-Haytham the great father of Ahmad ibn Al-Haytham, I think he is ibn ‘Adi At-Ta’i, and if it is him then he is Matruk a liar, else he is Majhul.”
Please just do not blindly follow your Peer. Do some research and you will Insha-Allah find that above Hadeth is fabricated and you will find that the further criticism on this Hadeeth that "Abu Sadiq did not meet Ali".
This is Imam Ghazali's personal opinion, he himself mentioned at the beginning of his opinion that "this is not a hadith". Hence it is not "hujjat" (حجت) in Shariat.
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You are distorting my point. All I told is that the references that the author of the article has told in his footnotes actually have written this this and this in their tafsirs. Have I ever quoted this Hadees in any of our debates of intercession. No and this is enough that I dont quote any Hadees which is considered controversial and this could be only the personal opinion of Ibn Abdil Hadi who died in 1340s a.d. Qurtubi died 70 years before him.
All the Hadees that I quote r with authentic references during our debates. About Imam Ghazali it is clearly told by me that it is his personal opinion so you didnt tell any thing new.
The first point in the foootnote actually points towards Ibn Qayyim who was the student of Ibn Taymiyyah and so I told about Ibn Taymiyyah. Do you know that Imam ibn Abdil Hadi was the student of Ibn Qayyim and had the same views as his teacher. The other students of Ibn Qayyim were Dhahabi and Ibn Kathir. They all had same views. Do you want me to tell those views.
I have challenged you several times that prove to me that the Hadees I quote for debates r fake and unauthentic and you have never been able to do it. Isnt this enough.
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The thread is now gradually slowing down. Because Cheeko and Veila Mast & comy Ltd.,
have nothing more to convince on this point. Now only they are doing "Haeen baieen shaeen".
these type of problems, people themselves created when they push back Quran, the
Supreme Guidance and resort to other material. If they once and all:
a) accept that Quran is the Super most and take precedence over all things;
b) Ibne Tamayya and plus others what they have written has no significance if
their writings go against Quran and Definitely those who have self-
invented that "PROPHETS ARE ALIVE IN THEIR GRAVES......" have
done a tremendous crime and innovation.
c) Even once these man-written scriptures are bellied with reference
to Quran, that puts a Big Question Mark on all other their writings
authenticity.
It is really amazing how people invent such funny things. The faith and
EEman is not that whether Prophets are alive in their graves, RATHER, it
is that they were Prophets of Allah.
have nothing more to convince on this point. Now only they are doing "Haeen baieen shaeen".
these type of problems, people themselves created when they push back Quran, the
Supreme Guidance and resort to other material. If they once and all:
a) accept that Quran is the Super most and take precedence over all things;
b) Ibne Tamayya and plus others what they have written has no significance if
their writings go against Quran and Definitely those who have self-
invented that "PROPHETS ARE ALIVE IN THEIR GRAVES......" have
done a tremendous crime and innovation.
c) Even once these man-written scriptures are bellied with reference
to Quran, that puts a Big Question Mark on all other their writings
authenticity.
It is really amazing how people invent such funny things. The faith and
EEman is not that whether Prophets are alive in their graves, RATHER, it
is that they were Prophets of Allah.
One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh (some manuscripts say Abu Nasr) who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said, “Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’ I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.” Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.” Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins. [Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]
Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-Azim, Ibn Kathir
[FONT=verdana,geneva]Translation Page: 140[/FONT]
Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-Azim, Ibn Kathir
[FONT=verdana,geneva]Translation Page: 140[/FONT]
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bons
Minister (2k+ posts)
babadeena!
Would you mind answering a question?
What is Islam? Is it only Quran or Quran and Hadith?
You might be expert in Quranic knowledge but you don't know nothing about hadith. Please abstain from posting your EXPERT opinions until you have fulll understanding of hadith.
It is clear in Sahih Hadees that Prophets r alive in the graves. If you only want to rely on Quran then we have some unfinished business that you still have to tell me the details of namaz from Quran. Until then I wont be replying to your rubbish.
Malik ad-Dar i.e. treasurer of Umar (RA) relates: The people were gripped by famine during the tenure of Umar (Ibn-ul-Khattab). Then a man walked up to the grave of Prophet and said: O Messenger of Allah! ask for rain from Allah for your Ummah who is in dire straits. Then he saw the Prophet (SAW) in dream. The Prophet (SAW) said to him, Go over to Umar, give him my regards and tell him that the rain will come to you. And tell Umar that he should be on his toes, he should be on his toes (he should remain alert). He went over to see Umar and passed on to him the tidings. On hearing this, Umar broke into a spurt of crying. He said, O Allah, I exert myself to the full until I am completely exhausted.
References
►Al-Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah Volume 011, Page No. 118, Hadith Number 32538
[FONT=verdana,geneva]This Hadith is authenticated as Sahih by[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]►Imam Ibn Kathir in Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah Volume No. 5, Page No. 167[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]►Imam Qastallani in al-Mawahib-ul-laduniyyah (4:276)[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]► Ibn-e-Taymiya in Fi-Iqtida-as-Sirat-il-Mustaqim (Vol.1, Page 373) [/FONT]
References
►Al-Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah Volume 011, Page No. 118, Hadith Number 32538
[FONT=verdana,geneva]This Hadith is authenticated as Sahih by[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]►Imam Ibn Kathir in Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah Volume No. 5, Page No. 167[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]►Imam Qastallani in al-Mawahib-ul-laduniyyah (4:276)[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]► Ibn-e-Taymiya in Fi-Iqtida-as-Sirat-il-Mustaqim (Vol.1, Page 373) [/FONT]
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