Criticism of Hadith

[SIslamK]

In this Talk Dr. Jonathan Brown explains the following Hadith:

Prostration of Sun

Narrated by Ab Dharr: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said one day: Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: It goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: Arise! Go back from whence you came. Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: Arise! Go back from whence you came. Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes without people finding anything wrong with it until it arrives at that place of settlement it has beneath the throne. Then it will be told: Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place. Then Allahs Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Do you know when that will be? It will be when its faith will not avail a soul which had not believed before or earned some good from its faith. [Srah al-An`m: 157]. [Sahh Muslim (159,205) ]

More Women in Hell than Man

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28

The hadith that compares women to a 'crooked rib

Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Treat women well. The woman was created from a rib. The most bent part of the rib is the top part. If you try to straighten it, you will break it. If you leave it, it remains bent. So treat women well."

 

[Hadith]

None of these are authentic specially the last about women from bent rib is just taken out of Bible and made as hadith quran in many places describe the creation of humans and the above mentioned hadith regarding creation of women violates quran, to me its just un acceptable

 

[Hadith]

Hadith about women in hell is a BS also its provoking gender bias, typical of mullah not Islamic in anyway

 

[Hadith]

Thefirst about sun, the translation is not as what it says, here the movement of sun, moon and other heavenly bodies is well explained in quran and the explanation here does not match that

 

[Pakistani1947]

Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net

We must look carefully at the texts in question to determine exactly what those texts are saying, and equally importantly, what they are not saying.

This hadth is found in Sahh al-Bukhr (3199, 7424). Its text, as related by Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to me: “O Ab Dharr! Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

I said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it prostrates beneath the Throne. Then it seeks permission and permission is granted to it. Soon it will prostrate and it will not be accepted from it, and seek permission and will not be granted permission. It will be said to it: ‘Go back where you came from.’ Then it will rise from its setting place. This is Allah’s statement: ‘And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Srah YSn: 38]’.”​

It is also found in Sahh Muslim (159,205). Its text, as related by Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said one day: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

They said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes without people finding anything wrong with it until it arrives at that place of settlement it has beneath the throne. Then it will be told: ‘Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place’.”

Then Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Do you know when that will be? It will be when ‘its faith will not avail a soul which had not believed before or earned some good from its faith. [Srah al-An`m: 157]’.”​

The hadth is also found in Sahh al-Bukhr in a highly abridged form (4803, 7433). Its text reads:

I asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) about Allah’s statement: “And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement... [Srah YSn: 38]”.

He said: “Its place of settlement is beneath the throne.”​

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqaln, in Fath al-Br, his commentary on Sahh al-Bukhr, writes:

This was how Wak` related it from al-A`mash in an abbreviated form. It is a narration by meaning. In the previous narration of the hadth, the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked Ab Dharr: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?” [Fath al-Br (8/688)]​

The first point that we need to consider is that nowhere in any of these texts is it mentioned that the Sun is revolving around the Earth. The word used for the Sun’s motion in all of these texts is the verb “tajr” meaning “to go, flow, proceed”. This verb is not qualified by any other words indicating a spherical motion of any kind or any specific type of motion relative to the Earth.

The second point that we must consider is that nowhere does the hadth discuss the mechanics of the Sun’s motion or the mechanics of how that motion will change when the Sun rises from the West.

Thirdly, the place of settlement mentioned in the hadth is beneath the throne and not under the Earth.

What we know scientifically about the Sun is that it is indeed in motion. It is traveling around the center of the galaxy at roughly 220 km/s in an orbit that takes about 230 million years to complete.

It may be interesting to take note of the fact that the Qur’n mentions an orbital motion for the Sun. Allah says: “It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.” [Srah YSn: 40] However, the verse says nothing about the nature or placement of the Sun’s orbit. It states only that the Sun has one.

As for the Sun’s relationship to the Throne, which is what the hadth is discussing, this is something that we cannot speculate about. The Throne is part of the Unseen and we know nothing about it except what Allah and His Messenger tell us about it. It follows that the Sun’s behavior in relationship to the throne, both spatially and temporally, is also a matter of the Unseen. We must believe whatever Allah and His Messenger inform us about it and not speculate any further on the subject.

We can, therefore, safely conclude that these texts are not proof that the Sun orbits the Earth

 

[Azad]

None of these are authentic specially the last about women from bent rib is just taken out of Bible and made as hadith quran in many places describe the creation of humans and the above mentioned hadith regarding creation of women violates quran, to me its just un acceptable

Now here at this point I feel sorry for myself for my family
n for muslims
What if we have read ahadith authntic books?
We would hav no confliction then..
But now
can
Only pray
May Allah subhanahu gv us strength n guidance to learn tje right
To act upon the right
AminSAWW

 

[Pakistani1947]

A Brief History Of Hadith Collection And Criticism

A Brief History Of Hadith Collection And Criticism a Lecture by Dr.Jonathan Brown, a Muslim convert, one of current hadith scholars (Assistant Professor of Islamic Studies), he teaches at University of Washington in Seattle.

According to Dr. Brown, "I have never been more impressed with anybody in history in my life than with Muslim hadith scholars. I mean, when I first started studying hadith I was very skeptical, I though it was all made-up and bogus but the more you study it the more you just appreciate the intense brain power of these people."

For those who are interested here’s a part of the CV of Dr Jonathan Brown:

CURRENT POSITIONS:

University of Washington, Seattle, Washington
Assistant Professor of Islamic Studies, Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations

Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World
Advisory Editor, 2005-2008

EDUCATION:

University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois
Ph.D. in Islamic Thought, Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations,
2001-August 2006 with honors
Minor: Modern Middle East History

Center for Arabic Study Abroad (CASA), Cairo, Egypt
Certificate in Arabic language, June 2000-June 2001

Georgetown University, Washington, DC
Bachelor of Arts in History, magna cum laude, May 2000
Minor in Russian Language
Phi Beta Kappa awarded junior year (May 1999)
Completed Certificate in Islam and Muslim-Christian Understanding

LANGUAGES:

Arabic (fluent Classical, Egyptian and Saudi Arabic)
Persian (advanced reading knowledge, fluent s***en)
Urdu (basic)
Epigraphic South Arabian (reading knowledge of Ma€™inian, Sabaic and other dialects of ancient South Arabian)
French (fluent reading and speaking)
German (reading knowledge)
AREAS OF SPECIALIZATION & COMPETENCE:

Specialization

History of Islam, Islamic Law, Qur'aan and Hadith, Sufism, Salafi and Wahhabi Islam, Islamic Historiography, Hermeneutic Traditions in Islam, Early Islamic History, Modern Islam.

 

[Veila Mast]

 

[Hadith]

Now here at this point I feel sorry for myself for my family
n for muslims
What if we have read ahadith authntic books?
We would hav no confliction then..
But now
can
Only pray
May Allah subhanahu gv us strength n guidance to learn tje right
To act upon the right
AminSAWW

No reason to worry I adopted the following principle when in my youth I read all these books.

Reference used is from same books
"Nabi do not say anything by himself, he only say what Allah tells him to"
"Sunnah is living translation of Quran" means
whatever is said by Nabi is in quran(in common way it can be as),Nabi recieved Wahi for everything in his life and the whole wahi is in quran..Right?
Then any hadith which contradict quran and some how create doubt about sunnah.. is invalid..
The solution
Use your brain and understand its logic, Remember translations from one language to another do not fully describe the spirit of actual text(any language), this will guide you and you will get solution to a issue you have...key is use your brain not mullah's

 

[ualis]

Hadith were written some 200+ years after the demise of our Nabi so the Hadith books can not be authentic and majority of the hadith are nothing but Insult to Islam and Prophets....

 

[Raaz]

Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net

We must look carefully at the texts in question to determine exactly what those texts are saying, and equally importantly, what they are not saying.

This hadth is found in Sahh al-Bukhr (3199, 7424). Its text, as related by Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to me: “O Ab Dharr! Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

I said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it prostrates beneath the Throne. Then it seeks permission and permission is granted to it. Soon it will prostrate and it will not be accepted from it, and seek permission and will not be granted permission. It will be said to it: ‘Go back where you came from.’ Then it will rise from its setting place. This is Allah’s statement: ‘And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement. That is the determination of the Mighty the Knowing. [Srah YSn: 38]’.”​

It is also found in Sahh Muslim (159,205). Its text, as related by Ab Dharr al-Ghifr, is as follows:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said one day: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?”

They said: “Allah and His Messenger know best.”

He said: “It goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes until it arrives at its place of settlement beneath the Throne. Then it falls down in prostration and remains like that until it is said to it: ‘Arise! Go back from whence you came.’ Then it goes back and rises from its place of rising. Then it goes without people finding anything wrong with it until it arrives at that place of settlement it has beneath the throne. Then it will be told: ‘Arise! Enter upon the morning rising from your setting place’.”

Then Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “Do you know when that will be? It will be when ‘its faith will not avail a soul which had not believed before or earned some good from its faith. [Srah al-An`m: 157]’.”​

The hadth is also found in Sahh al-Bukhr in a highly abridged form (4803, 7433). Its text reads:

I asked the Prophet (peace be upon him) about Allah’s statement: “And the Sun runs on to its place of settlement... [Srah YSn: 38]”.

He said: “Its place of settlement is beneath the throne.”​

Ibn Hajar al-`Asqaln, in Fath al-Br, his commentary on Sahh al-Bukhr, writes:

This was how Wak` related it from al-A`mash in an abbreviated form. It is a narration by meaning. In the previous narration of the hadth, the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked Ab Dharr: “Do you know where the Sun goes when it sets?” [Fath al-Br (8/688)]​

The first point that we need to consider is that nowhere in any of these texts is it mentioned that the Sun is revolving around the Earth. The word used for the Sun’s motion in all of these texts is the verb “tajr” meaning “to go, flow, proceed”. This verb is not qualified by any other words indicating a spherical motion of any kind or any specific type of motion relative to the Earth.

The second point that we must consider is that nowhere does the hadth discuss the mechanics of the Sun’s motion or the mechanics of how that motion will change when the Sun rises from the West.

Thirdly, the place of settlement mentioned in the hadth is beneath the throne and not under the Earth.

What we know scientifically about the Sun is that it is indeed in motion. It is traveling around the center of the galaxy at roughly 220 km/s in an orbit that takes about 230 million years to complete.

It may be interesting to take note of the fact that the Qur’n mentions an orbital motion for the Sun. Allah says: “It is not for the Sun to overtake the Moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.” [Srah YSn: 40] However, the verse says nothing about the nature or placement of the Sun’s orbit. It states only that the Sun has one.

As for the Sun’s relationship to the Throne, which is what the hadth is discussing, this is something that we cannot speculate about. The Throne is part of the Unseen and we know nothing about it except what Allah and His Messenger tell us about it. It follows that the Sun’s behavior in relationship to the throne, both spatially and temporally, is also a matter of the Unseen. We must believe whatever Allah and His Messenger inform us about it and not speculate any further on the subject.

We can, therefore, safely conclude that these texts are not proof that the Sun orbits the Earth

U could prove any thing by this way......it is up to u.....actually.

 

[patriot_purdesi]

The Quran and sunnah has always priority. The Hadith is 2nd and 3rd hand information heard/witnessed by selected people in a private capacity and passed to next generation who compiled them later, as compare to Al-Quran and Sunnah is 1st hand information that majority listen and observed directly from Prophet and his companions R.A five times a day and over many occasions in the public. Also only Al-Quran is protected by Allah SWT till the day of judgement.

The jews were misguieded because they started believing in the Talmud (call it Mosses hadith) instead of actual text of Torah and ten commandments. Eventally they end up making the Talmud part of bible!