atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Justification of life here after

Disagree with bold/highlighted text .

My point was humans and animals both have emotions and they both feel pain and pleasure.

are plants not?

They are not being tested, only humans are. This is the final life of animals, humans will have another lifer after death.
 

golmaal

Banned
Re: Justification of life here after

They are not being tested, only humans are. This is the final life of animals, humans will have another lifer after death.

Are you preaching me?

On a side note, I find many people live their lives in a not so different way as animals (sheeps/cattles) because they don't like to use their brains.
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Justification of life here after

Are you preaching me?

On a side note, I find many people live their lives in a not so different way as animals (sheeps/cattles) because they don't like to use their brains.

You are one of those.
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Heart Problem and Quran(58seconds only)

قرآن کو پڑھنے اور سمجھنے کے لیے پہلے مسلمان ہونا ضروری ہے
پاکستان کو مسلم اکثریت والا ملک کہا جاتا ہے
معلوم نہیں مسلمان کی تعریف کیا ہے
میرے پیارے نبی نے تو کہا تھا کہ مسلمان اور کافر کے درمیان فرق صرف نماز ہے
یعنی جو نماز نہیں پڑھتا وہ مسلمان نہیں
آج پاکستان کی آبادی کے کتنے لوگ پابندی سے نماز پڑھتے ہیں
فجر کے لیے کتنے لوگ مساجد میں آتے ہیں
مغرب میں کتنے لوگ مساجد میں ہوتے ہیں اور کتنے بازاروں اور ہوٹلوں میں ہوتے ہیں
کیا پھر بھی ہم اکثریت رکھنے والے مسلمان قوم ہیں

 

msaeed89

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Heart Problem and Quran(58seconds only)

قرآن کو پڑھنے اور سمجھنے کے لیے پہلے مسلمان ہونا ضروری ہے
پاکستان کو مسلم اکثریت والا ملک کہا جاتا ہے
معلوم نہیں مسلمان کی تعریف کیا ہے
میرے پیارے نبی نے تو کہا تھا کہ مسلمان اور کافر کے درمیان فرق صرف نماز ہے
یعنی جو نماز نہیں پڑھتا وہ مسلمان نہیں
آج پاکستان کی آبادی کے کتنے لوگ پابندی سے نماز پڑھتے ہیں
فجر کے لیے کتنے لوگ مساجد میں آتے ہیں
مغرب میں کتنے لوگ مساجد میں ہوتے ہیں اور کتنے بازاروں اور ہوٹلوں میں ہوتے ہیں
کیا پھر بھی ہم اکثریت رکھنے والے مسلمان قوم ہیں


Beshak app nay sahi farmayaa NAMAZ kay baray mayyy...per meray bhai Ajj woh zaman agaya hayy kay 5 wakt ki namaz padhnay wala bhi us namaz ki asal taleem bhol gaya hayyy....NAMAZ ki koi choot nahi beshak...per aj kal kay time may koi gurantee nahi kay aik 5 wakt ka namazi aik acha musalman aur insan bhi hogaaa...apnay zati experience say bata raha hoo mayy..aur zati experience bhi aik nahi kafi sarayyy...ap khud apnay *** pass asaiy bohat say log dekhaygay jo 5 wakt namaz tu padhaty hay per un kay amal may aur daily rotuine kay kamooo may us namaz ka koi fiada nahi horahaaa...kafiroo say bad tar kam ker rahay hotay hay woh log....NAMAZ sirf khaday hoker 4 ya 2 rakakt faraz padh lainay ka nam nahi is ka maksad hay zindagi may achayy aaamaaal aur kam kernaaa...
 

sahiL

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Heart Problem and Quran(58seconds only)

May Allah grant him Jannah.Ameen.....he's one of those scholars I could listen for hours...
 

Unicorn

Banned
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism


I think he is trying to say that Jews are the Beneficiaries of secularism but I cannot be sure. The fact is all of the countries who were considered " Christendoms ( Kingdoms of Christ ) " had to go to war to remove the yoke of religion from there necks.

He is also using false premise that secularists want to considered prostitutes as sex workers which is far from the truth. It is the prostitutes who want to be know as sex workers. He is trying to portray secularists as immoral.
All we seculars want is the choice for each individual to practice their religion/s without religion being part of the state
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

I think he is trying to say that Jews are the Beneficiaries of secularism but I cannot be sure. The fact is all of the countries who were considered " Christendoms ( Kingdoms of Christ ) " had to go to war to remove the yoke of religion from there necks.

He is also using false premise that secularists want to considered prostitutes as sex workers which is far from the truth. It is the prostitutes who want to be know as sex workers. He is trying to portray secularists as immoral.
All we seculars want is the choice for each individual to practice their religion/s without religion being part of the state

You are absolutely correct. You are wrong if you think religion is set aside and Crusades are gone. http://www.thetrumpet.com/507.0.35.0/middle-east/israel/the-last-crusade. Secular states not only founded also protecting a Racist Religious state, for whom?

Prostitutes, Nudist, Homosexuals are encouraged to come forward and provided legal protection. These activities are immoral. 51% can give them legal protection not morality.

Secularism is a trick to accomplish religious goals and Jews slowly but surely achieving their goals.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

I think dr israr sb has left out one very important factor of this equation and that is mullaiyat and its role in undermining importance of revelation.

It is due to gross misinterpretation and misrepresentation of divine message that actually led to separation between philosophy, science and religion.

malukiyat undermined revelation and created separation between religion and state and for that the divine message had to be derailed so both internal and external factors began acting upon that agenda and once religion was undermined politically then due to misinterpretation of the divine message others lost interest in religion and began to pay more attention to find answers which religion was unable to provide through other independent means eg philosophy and science.

Even today what scientists and philosophers do is take interpretations of holy books by incompetent priests and use them as basis to undermine religion in order to prove that philosophy and science are the only ways to go by. This suited every group of players eg rulers got free hand to exploit masses in the name of country and politics, mullahs got free hand to exploit masses big time in the name of religion and God and philosophers got their recognition as intellectuals without really being intellectuals and provided nonsense explanations about life that are cut off from realities and scientists got free hand to do their bit likewise and misled humanity in to what we see all around us.

No doubt that major beneficiaries have been first and foremost kings then mullahs and then capitalists and masses have been used and abused always by all of the said to their hearts content.

It was an aimless adventure by humanity through its all kinds of leadership and interaction by various players against each other that has brought us to where we are today. This situation suits no one in actual fact because it did not go according to anyone's desired direction 100%, because the whole thing went in a direction unexpected by anyone. We all ended up with our knickers twisted to put it mildly.

In order to put this whole mess right we need to reverse the process ie remove separation between religion, philosophy and science and then that will remove separation between religion and state and finally we will have world the way it was supposed to be ie united, progressive and prosperous and in peace.

To reverse the process what needs to be done and how it could be done and who may be able to do it are the questions that need answers.

In order to reverse the process of separation between religion, philosophy and science, we must reinterpret the divine scriptures in light of science and rationality. We must accept the fact that the right of judgement of any case rests with wisdom and its set out rules that cannot be refuted. This means no alleged divine revelation can be authority unless it meets this very criterion. So long as we have opposition to this very foundational idea no other steps are possible. However if people accept this as basis then science, scriptures and rationality will all become mutually inclusive and help each other to correct themselves and thus provide basis for further steps to remove separation between religion and state.

By removing these separations we will then be able to put humanity on a new course of action that will help it move forward full speed.

This task is not an easy one because what we need is people with such determination who can take away control from all entities that are cause of separation through showing their superiority in each and every field of knowledge involved so that they could undermine each and every mechanism used for separation between things and ideas and people. This is not as difficult as it might appear because groups of people could work together as one to this end.

To some extent this is already happening in form of global politics through international relationship dialogues, interfaith dialogue, dialogues between religious people and scientists and philosophers and religious etc etc. So gradually world is moving towards unity be it unaware where it is going ie circumstances and situations are leading humanity towards the same end as already predicted by the quran 1500 years back. All this without anyone noticing or realising ie it is a quite process.
 
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xshadow

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

I guess, this is a very beautiful lesson for Hassan Nisar and the SAFMA traitors. They still have chance to come back on the true legacy of Islam rather than associating it with Europe. We don't have to import any think from Europe not even a single idea. We've the book, the ultimate guidance and its interpretation in the form of Ahadeeth of our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

You have presented the case of Evangelical Christians and the Trumpet is their publication. Evangelical believe in their prophecies just as you believe in your prophecies . I think you know that Evangelical believe that Christ will not come until all Jews return to their land. Once they return there will be a war among Jews and their enemies and Jews will kill all their enemies and win the war, only a few Jews will survive. Thats when Jesus will descend to earth and remaining Jews will convert to Christianity and everyone will be " Raptured " to heaven except for poor Hindus/Budhits/Sikhs/Muslims or anyone who failed to accept Jesus Christ as their savior.

Over the centuries there have been several refermatons in Christianity. I don't know what is the big deal with Crusades in past is those Crusades were in response to Arab conquests anyway. I acknowledge that they were extremely bloody and during one battle Christians army ate the flesh of dead Muslims. Times have changed now most people have come out of ignorance some what and its time to learn something from the past and let it rest.

No one can reason with them thats what says in their book and they believe it. It is the same way as you believe in the twelfth Imam Mehadi. Every one is trying to hasten the arrival of their prophets hence creating an alliance between the Jews an Evangelicals. This relationship is not based on any love or respect its just that they need the Jews to die or no rapture. It has nothing to do with racism. Evangelical sect do not make the Majority of Christians.

As far as prostitutes are considered last year Iranian Mullahs has authorized marriages that expires in one hour that makes every thing legal as far as god is concerned. Prostitutes have been around for thousands of years and they will be around for thousands of years no matter what you do.

A group of nudists can be nude in a private property they don't bother me as long as they don't do it in public and as far homosexuals are concerned two consenting adults can do what ever they want to in the privacy of their home none of my business. If and when god wants to punish them its between god and them none of my business.

Dear Unicorn, the main problem with us muslims is not realising what our holy book is all about. We are ignorantly pushing the agenda of ruling elite and their mullahs and we think we are working for islam and quran.

The quran teaches us to live with dignity and die with dignity as human beings but we just like living like animals like the rest of humanity or even worse in some cases. For last so many centuries muslims have not played their proper part on the world stage. They were supposed to lead the word and look at where they are ie not even able to follow others in anything worthy of following. Masses are busy getting their problems solved by those who con them. You can see how muslims call tv channels that have programs like astrologers, pamists, taweez, magic and all sorts of nonsense. You can also see muslim masses visiting grave yards looking for solutions of their problems through people who are dead.

They do everything they condemn nonmuslims for. The stupid religious leaders tell them this world does not matter it is all about hereafter and these very people say they believe this yet they go to these extremes just for getting their this world problems solved, can you see the staring in the face contradiction in their minds? They do not want this world and yet they want it. It will be good start for them to not to listen to stupid mullahs who mislead them this way.

This silly concepts have nothing to do with quranic message as such. The quran is solely here for telling people how to live in this world successfully and this is what they have rejected and because of that they are suffering.

The quran is not a holly book for pooja paaty but a divine constitution for peaceful life for muslims and through them for rest of humanity. The quran clearly tells people by going against the quran they cannot live in peace. That is what has been happening ever since they left the quranic set path. Even after 1400 years they have not yet bothered to try and understand what has gone wrong. They will carry on suffering far as long as they keep going by their this mindset and attitude. Thye are suffering more than the rest for two reasons a, they did not live by the quran themselves and b, they did not pass on the message of the quran as they were supposed to. It is written in the quran what will happen to such people ie stories of the past people in the quran should leave them in no doubt. Nonetheless they carry on regardless just like animals keep following the same path till someone or something forces them to change their path and then again they just carry on like herd of cattle.

Islam is here to end all wrongs that harm humanity and they will end and it is humans that will end them but I do not see end in sight yet because for that to happen we do not have the knowledge the quran was sent for. We live by make beliefs that others determine for us because we do not bother thinking things through for ourselves. Only when people use their heads and read the quran that way that things will change not before that.

I wrote before some posts but they have been wiped out due to resetting of this forum so I cannot refer you to that but I hope you read them. In those posts I explained in which direction the world is moving gradually from absolute imperialism by kings and priests to money changers and the next stage will arrive after this which is all about supremacy of concept of constitution. Not just any constitution but a constitution that is based upon ensuring freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity for mankind. This is what the quran is. It is the book.

We are paying the price for undermining this book and we will keep on paying the price for it till we own its advice and put it across to others.

The quran is not about rule of mullahs, it is the book for setting out house rules so that people living in the house know their tasks and get on with it for the house to run smoothly. It is not at all about rule by some people over others instead it sets out rights and responsibilities for all involved ie people and institutions therefore there is no conflict of interest between the parties involved. So long as we each do our set out bit everything will end up ok. That is the message of the quran.

Mullahs is busy trying to see himself as the ruler of the mankind in the name of God but that is not going to happen. The quranic concept is, rule belong to Allah alone and he has given mankind his blessed constitution, even our prophet was not given the right to rule the people. He could only and only set up people and institutions based upon quranic framework and let them function as they ought to. He had his rights and responsibilities just like anyone else so he played his part and others played their parts and that is how islamic state was run in his time. It was responsibility of each and every person to ensure that all play their part effectively so that muslim society remained functioning properly. After his death in second and 3rd generation everything came tumbling down, never to be rebuilt again. It was a huge task that he accomplished within 23 years of his prophetic life which muslims have not been able to replicate for last 1400 years. I cannot say how long more they need to do that but I hope it is not another 1400 years.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

I guess, this is a very beautiful lesson for Hassan Nisar and the SAFMA traitors. They still have chance to come back on the true legacy of Islam rather than associating it with Europe. We don't have to import any think from Europe not even a single idea. We've the book, the ultimate guidance and its interpretation in the form of Ahadeeth of our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

Dear xshadow, no doubt the quran and hadith are basic sources of islam but the ahadith also have been misinterpreted and misrepresented just like the quran. The problem is that we do not try to see what the quran and hadith are based upon.

They are based upon rules of judgement. Any interpretation of the quran that goes against the rules of wisdom is wrong interpretation of the quran even if the whole mullah group says it is not wrong. That is what we need to accept regardless we like it or not. Only proper interpretation of the quran can then be used to see which hadith is genuine and which is not or which hadith has been interpreted properly and which has not been interpreted properly.

So long as we do not accept these like rules we stand nowhere. The problem is that the quran sets out islam as its goal for mankind and sets itself out as its manifesto and constitution. Now if we understand what constitution means then we know that we cannot implement this constitution without first properly understanding and interpreting it. Only after we have its proper interpretation we can implement it and get benefits it is supposed to offer us. This whole concept you will see is missing from our mullahs' heads.

They want quranic rule but are fighting over what it is supposed to mean. Since our mullahs are confused they are also busy confusing everyone else as well. This is why we need to start understanding things ourselves and guide our mullahs as well. Only then there is chance of getting where we need to be or ought to be.
 

Humi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

The number one beneficiaries are the Anti-Christ and Satan...suckers must be having feasts everyday!
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

You are absolutely correct. You are wrong if you think religion is set aside and Crusades are gone. http://www.thetrumpet.com/507.0.35.0/middle-east/israel/the-last-crusade. Secular states not only founded also protecting a Racist Religious state, for whom?

Prostitutes, Nudist, Homosexuals are encouraged to come forward and provided legal protection. These activities are immoral. 51% can give them legal protection not morality.

Secularism is a trick to accomplish religious goals and Jews slowly but surely achieving their goals.

But we don't like such a secularism. Our Secularism is not immoral rather it is the name of highly principled ethics. Which doesn't downgrade other ppl just because of difference in religion but does downgrade others if they try to promote immoral practices....!!!
 

Humi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Beneficiaries of Secularism

I have been given the tital of Iblees_E_Azam by some members or at least by one. I have not befitted anything form it all my benefit is through hard work and long hours:lol:

u r not partying all night long, are you? :lol:
 

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