I just remember that Radio Pakistan was announcing that the Brave Pakistani Forces are fighting with the enemy but on the same time Indian Radio "Akashwani" was announcing that they won the battle. Immediately within minutes Indra Gandhi gave an speach to the Nation saying that now Bangladesh is Freed from Pakistan and is a free Nation now. She congratulated to the people all over India and Bangladesh. I think it was near 12 Mid night in Pakistan
Is It a Lie? or Truth
- Thread starter Unicorn
- Start date
A.Ali.T
Minister (2k+ posts)
BBC did a series of interviews with Indira Gandhi and Sheikh Mujeeb Ur Rehman, in that interview she said that we have avenged one thousand years of Muslim rule.
You can go to the following link, it is a very recent post, but stiil you can check it out.
http://southasiamonitor.org/detail.php?type=n&nid=1316
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
what makes u think she didnt.. with emotions she cud uttter these words.....after all it was ruled by hindus prior to muslim rule....
In a recent show with Moeed Pirzada and his guests Naseem Zahara and Shashi Tharoor.
Ms. Zahara made the following statement " following the fall of Dhaka Mrs. Indira Gandhi came running down like a school girl and said we have avenged one thousand years of Muslim rule" Ms. Zahara said that she was watching a BBC documentary about Bangladesh and the secretary of Mrs. Gandhi said that in a interview.
Mr. Tharoor did not agree.
Mr. Pirzada said " its on record " but did not disclosed those record.
I contacted the BBC archives and asked them if such a documentary exists. I was told that they don't know its impossible to say unless I could provide them with the name of the documentary, date of broadcast and the station that broadcasted.
I have started an investigation into this and all you guys are invited to assist. Below are my correspondence with the characters involved.
Email To Shashi Tharoor:
Subject: Your apearence on Pirzada Show
Dear Mr. Tharoor,
I watched you on Mr. Pirzada's show yesterday I believe you handled your self rather well. I need your help on one part of the conversation with Ms. Zahara. She said that " she was watching a BBC documentary that showed a statement from Indira Gahdhi's secretary that Mrs. Ghandhi ran in like a School girl and said we have avenged one thousand years of Muslim rule" Mr Pirzada further added that " this statement is on record" I wished you had called them up on it on TV.
I usually go on a Pakistani web site called siasat.pk and engage in a dialog with Pakistani people. Many Pakistani people quote this statement, I have asked them for proof but they are unable to provide. I watch Pakistani news shows with Indian guests and concerning India all the time. I have heard some Pakistani journalists say the same thing on TV. I have sent emails to them asking for proof that Mrs. Gandhi made this statement but to no avail.
I would like to contact Mr. Pirzada and Ms. Zahara to show us the record they are talking about and I will bet you dollars to donuts that they can't, just as the Pakistani people can't. I would like to know evidence from Mr. Pirzada. I would like to know from Ms. Zahara on what day the BBC documentary was broadcasted, what channel and the name of the documentary. I don't know about you but I will accept the statement of the secretary, provided if he/she really said this, as truth and than understand why they feel the way they feel. I will not get anywhere with them.
I would appreciate your help and I will post your reply following your efforts on this web site.
Thank you in advance.
Yours truly,
UNICORN
Reply From Shashi:
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Your apearence on Pirzada Show
I did challenge that claim by saying that it flew in the face of India's total rejection of the very notion of a civilizational war with Muslims, and was therefore inconceivable for any Indian leader to have uttered. I don't know if this comment was deleted from the televised version, since the taping did run over time.
Moeed Peerzada's email is XXXXXXXXXXX
My email to Pirzada
Deer Mr. Pirzada,
My best regards to you.
I am writing you with regards to your show with your guest Shash Tharoor and Ms. Zahara. I have wrote to Mr. Tharoor and you can read our correspondence below it will give a good background for my email.I did enjoy your show and I hope you continue to air these types of shows in the future as most of the reasonable minded people on both side of the border recognize the fact that a good relationship or at least a workable relationship between the two countries is beneficial for all.
Ms Zara had indicated that she saw a BBC documentary in which Mrs Indra Gandhi's secretary, after the fall of Dhaka said " Mrs Gandhi came running down like a school girl and said we have revenged one thousand year old Muslim rule " Following her statement you mentioned that " this is on record "
I cannot find this statement in any record except in Pakistani books or the Television. I am asking you to disclose those records that contain the statement by Mrs. Gandhi. Specifically,Ms. Zara should know the name of the BBC documentary, date it was broadcasted and the name of the broadcasting station. I am saying on record that this BBC documentary DOES NOT exist.
If this BBC documentary exists, with a statement from Mrs Gandhi's secretary, I will accept it as truth. If its true than I can fully understand your mistrust of Indian government as I would do the same if I was in your position as this would be a horrible statement from the Prime Minister of India. If its not true than you must inform all Pakistanis of this because most of them believe it to be true.
I have forwarded a copy of this email to Mr. Tharoor.
Thank you in advance and wish you all the best.
Unicorn
Email to Ms. Zahara. Jan 16-12
Dear Ms. Zahara,
I am writing to you with regards to your statement that you have seen a BBC documentary where Mrs. Indra Gandhi's secretary said " following fall of Dhakka Mrs. Gandhi ran down like a school girl" and said that " we have revenged one thousand year old Muslim rule ". Mr. Pirzada made a comment in your support and said " this (meaning statement) is on record". You can read rest of the email for better understanding for the subject.
You are the only one who mentioned a credible and tangible news source to back up your statement. I will need your help in finding this documentary to verify your statement. I have been it touch with the BBC and I will require; name of the BBC documentary, name of the station that broadcasted it and date of broadcast if possible all three but the name is extremely important. I have heard this statement form Pakistani people I communicate with from your politicians as well.
Ms. Zahara, you have accused state of India of engaging in civilizational warfare with Pakistan, if true than you have a very good reason not to trust India as I will do the same. However, if your statement, on the program is not true, than I will consider this at lest one " invented lie " for not trusting India.
You can read the rest of the email and a copy of this email will be forwarded to the honorable MP Mr. Shashi Tharoor and Mr. Pirzada
I wish you all the best and will eagerly await your response.
Now the ball is in Pkaistani court and lets discover the truth together. I will up date my responses.
Its not about she could or could not, but did she?????
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
this is a total made up bogus story. I searched google scholar several times over the years to find some reference of this sort. no such thing has ever turned up. i also saw that show with moeed and naseem where they qouted "an aide to Mrs. Gandhi said that Mrs. Gandhi came to her jumping with glee like a school girl and said we have taken revenge for 1000 years of slavery". this has to be the most unsubstantiated report I ever heard from the mouth of so called top journalists. is this journalism? moeed and naseem should be ashamed. also that idiot shashi didnt challenge the point properly. though he made a good argumment, he should have realised that whether he got any other point thru or not, that one point was the most malicious innuendo in the whole program and he should have made all hue and cry about it.
I personally agree with shashi's point. this silly idea has never been part of india's national narative. especially when so many muslim officers who are part of indian army too fought in the war. it is inconceivable that someone like mrs. gandhi who whether you like her or not was some kind of a public intellectual, will make any inane comment of that sort. as far as i am concerned this is just malicious propaganda. you should read the book, "Letters from a father to his daughter" which reflects the thinking of Pt. Nehru and indira. Pt. Nehru was the most secular minded person in probably all of the eastern hemisphere in his times.
I personally agree with shashi's point. this silly idea has never been part of india's national narative. especially when so many muslim officers who are part of indian army too fought in the war. it is inconceivable that someone like mrs. gandhi who whether you like her or not was some kind of a public intellectual, will make any inane comment of that sort. as far as i am concerned this is just malicious propaganda. you should read the book, "Letters from a father to his daughter" which reflects the thinking of Pt. Nehru and indira. Pt. Nehru was the most secular minded person in probably all of the eastern hemisphere in his times.
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adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
my vote is yes she did.. but for prooof.. ask nasim zehras records..
haha....that is what this thread is all about, but then you wanted to give your vote........:)
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
what im curious abt is why he thinks she might not hv said it.. its not something really shocking or surprising....
Unicorn
Banned
[TABLE="class: t10"]
[TR]
[TD]Pakistan-India: Nurturing a paradigm shift
Nasim Zehra
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: sttxt"]..............
Yet on a cautiously optimistic note, where the two countries stand at present is a far cry from the relationship defining assertions by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto.
After Pakistan's failed Operation Gibraltar against India, Pakistan's Foreign Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto in September 1965 had said: "Pakistan would wage a war of a 1,000 years, a war of defence."
After having midwifed the birth of Bangladesh then Indian prime minister Indira Gandhi triumphantly yelled: "We have avenged 1,000 years of history."
When she made these remarks on Dec 18, 1971, Pakistan was only 24 years old. She was referring to the 1,000-year-old minority Muslim rule over majority Hindu India.
.....................
(Nasim Zehra, national security strategist and columnist, is currently a Fellow at the Harvard University Asia Center. She can be reached at [email protected])[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]full article
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
http://hindustandainik.in/news/specials/pranab_AsiaTour/index.shtml
In this article she did not reveal as to how she knows?.
Unicorn
Banned
I already tried with BBC archives. They want to know the name of the documentary. It is tough to find a documentary where a single comment was made. I am also trying to get a contact at BBC.
I think he is just asking for some proof, but he can answer that better.
Unicorn
Banned
I will tell you why:
She grew up in a house hold of a very secular family. As a youngster she grew up with people like Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, Dr. Zakir Hussain.
A person avenging Muslim rule does not marry a Muslim.
Prior to Indian invasion she visited all Arab countries for support.
How does breaking Pakistan avenges one thousand Muslim rule, to me it appears it was a hunch of some Pakistani and it became a story.
Every bits and pieces of any important statement made by a leader, specially in a film are all over the internet but this is not.
I believe this type of statement is highly insulting for Indian Muslims and she was smart enough not to make this type of comment because she did not feel this way.
I hate her politics and I always refer to her as Indra Gaddi.
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
it is very shocking by the way. as shashi pointed out, thats not india's national narrative. no one thinks like that in india, or atleast no one is expected to think like that. there is no politics of that sort which reflects those views. even the BJP never has made out such a case. her father was an epitome of secular thinking. and if she learnt anything from her father, she would not have said such a thing. i dont know why you dont find it reprehensible and shocking.
many people in india dont like her politics, especially after emergency, but no one thought of her as a religious bigot. in fact in 1984, she was warned by intelligence agencies that her sikh bodyguards might be a danger to her life, because of the golden temple operation bluestar. she refused to let go off her sikh bodyguards, saying that they were there to protect her and it didnt matter what their religion was. unfortunately one of them killed her.
many people in india dont like her politics, especially after emergency, but no one thought of her as a religious bigot. in fact in 1984, she was warned by intelligence agencies that her sikh bodyguards might be a danger to her life, because of the golden temple operation bluestar. she refused to let go off her sikh bodyguards, saying that they were there to protect her and it didnt matter what their religion was. unfortunately one of them killed her.
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adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
just for arguments sake.. what abt bal thakeray??? he has got good influence thats why he simply breaks all laws yet hes not arrested or put under trial??? incidents like babri masjid and the gujrat massacre.... (now thats its proved it was not an act of any militants and that army man is killed i think who was doing the investigations)....
there is a big chunk in india who has got this extremist view... india is infuencing the baloch resistance..... whats why bramdagh bugti visits india... so this are not as clean as they look..
there is a big chunk in india who has got this extremist view... india is infuencing the baloch resistance..... whats why bramdagh bugti visits india... so this are not as clean as they look..
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adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
my notion is the euphoria of victory and u may utter such words... no matter what u say.. its a fact muslims ruled hindu majority ... and when euphoria kicks in.. these words can come out... does not mean its a policy... but just a thought.... india did intervene in bangladesh and got it separated and that was her victory
Now this discussion is going off topic.......it seems you are on defensive and in want of valid argument......
InsafianPTI
Minister (2k+ posts)
I would have tried to give it a go but at the moment i'm too busy searching behaviourist theory, so can't afford to go off the track, but will be looking forward for the results.
and out of curiosity since when IK zinda bad is your logo.
and out of curiosity since when IK zinda bad is your logo.
Unicorn
Banned
I have made comments on Bal Thakray. I have my opinions on Gujarat massacre I will share them in response to another thread.
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
offtopic agreed...im jsut responding when he said india doesnt think that way.. that was an incorrect statment.. theres a big chunk who thinks pakistan shudnt exisit...... intolerant ppl are present in every society..
Same thing again.....may, can, etc. etc.......
and yes you are right it was her victory, no doubt about that....
