Is It a Lie? or Truth

[Mullah Omar]

There is difference between lies and opinions. I have seen BBC and other documentaries of the west about Pakistani army and I can provide you as an evidence if you want. If I or anyone ells renders an opinion based on that it is not a lie. If you ask me show me your evidence I will. Many Pakistanis also criticize their army. In this case Pakistani Journalists are accusing India of engaging in a civilizatonal war not with Pakistan but with Muslims. Is it unfair for me to ask for evidence? or to investigate this serious claim.

No it is not unfair to ask for evidence for this claim but I'm just saying you should have a similar attitude towards accusations against our army and intelligence agencies and these accusations are rampant in india with people like Shashi Tharoor at the forefront of spreading these lies. BBC or other western documentaries are more propaganda rather than factual so they cannot be taken as evidence.

 

[Unicorn]

No it is not unfair to ask for evidence for this claim but I'm just saying you should have a similar attitude towards accusations against our army and intelligence agencies and these accusations are rampant in india with people like Shashi Tharoor at the forefront of spreading these lies. BBC or other western documentaries are more propaganda rather than factual so they cannot be taken as evidence.

Than you can't blame people like me, Shashi Tharoor or some Pakistanis for rendering their opinions based on these documented. It is up to you to refute these documentaries and discredit them with some evidence. Simply making a statement that they are mere propaganda is not acceptable. You are free to post refutes to these claims. I would like to view them.

 

[Unicorn]

No it is not unfair to ask for evidence for this claim but I'm just saying you should have a similar attitude towards accusations against our army and intelligence agencies and these accusations are rampant in india with people like Shashi Tharoor at the forefront of spreading these lies. BBC or other western documentaries are more propaganda rather than factual so they cannot be taken as evidence.

I don't know if you know or not we constantly criticize people like L K Advani and other leaders who make anti Pakistan statement every time they sneeze.

 

[Mullah Omar]

Than you can't blame people like me, Shashi Tharoor or some Pakistanis for rendering their opinions based on these documented. It is up to you to refute these documentaries and discredit them with some evidence. Simply making a statement that they are mere propaganda is not acceptable. You are free to post refutes to these claims. I would like to view them.

Yes I can blame people like you because you blindly believe a propaganda documentary instead of critically anaylizing the content and it only exposes your hypocrisy when on the other hand you are quick to scrutinize anything against your own country. While I won't bother refuting documentaries you can watch this

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W2v_10tXrlg
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zLLyIL0xI&feature=related
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2xZsxilsfs&feature=related


Lord Nazir exposes only some of the nonsense in that BBC documentary called Secret Pakistan. Much more can refuted with a little common sense in these documentaries against Pakistan. Remember these are the sort of documentaries that you use as "evidence" against Pakistan. Honestly though when even a person like Shashi Tharoor, who has held important positions in India, turns to documentaries as "evidence" it only furthers my belief that anything coming out from India in relations to Pakistan is best ignored.

 

[Mullah Omar]

I don't know if you know or not we constantly criticize people like L K Advani and other leaders who make anti Pakistan statement every time they sneeze.

It is good that you criticze blatantly anti Pakistan nutjobs like L K Advani and Bal Thackre but at the same time you also fall prey to baseless propaganda against Pakistan.

 

[Unicorn]

Yes I can blame people like you because you blindly believe a propaganda documentary instead of critically anaylizing the content and it only exposes your hypocrisy when on the other hand you are quick to scrutinize anything against your own country. While I won't bother refuting documentaries you can watch this

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W2v_10tXrlg
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12zLLyIL0xI&feature=related
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2xZsxilsfs&feature=related


Lord Nazir exposes only some of the nonsense in that BBC documentary called Secret Pakistan. Much more can refuted with a little common sense in these documentaries against Pakistan. Remember these are the sort of documentaries that you use as "evidence" against Pakistan. Honestly though when even a person like Shashi Tharoor, who has held important positions in India, turns to documentaries as "evidence" it only furthers my belief that anything coming out from India in relations to Pakistan is best ignored.

I have watched the documentary mentioned above. I will go through your links very carefully take notes from all three and then go through the documentary and and take notes than respond it might take me a week or two. I like doing these things they interest me. I will come back and respond with a mention to you. I don't want to rush it.

 

[only_truths]

I have watched the documentary mentioned above. I will go through your links very carefully take notes from all three and then go through the documentary and and take notes than respond it might take me a week or two. I like doing these things they interest me. I will come back and respond with a mention to you. I don't want to rush it.

It is the not the question of whether there is truth in any of these BBC documentaries, the issue raised of lie or truth during the television show about Indira Gandhi. Deviate the subject to prove their pity is a basic drawback in many Pakistani thinking. My perception tells me that I am right, so you have to accept it, no matter there is truth in it. That is why, they still think they are the sufferers in Terrorism war, no matter what the world perception that they are more of a perpetrators than sufferers. I feel this syndrome is the major reason to not finding a real solution to their problem and are beating around the bush in any real topic.

 

[Unicorn]

It is the not the question of whether there is truth in any of these BBC documentaries, the issue raised of lie or truth during the television show about Indira Gandhi. Deviate the subject to prove their pity is a basic drawback in many Pakistani thinking. My perception tells me that I am right, so you have to accept it, no matter there is truth in it. That is why, they still think they are the sufferers in Terrorism war, no matter what the world perception that they are more of a perpetrators than sufferers. I feel this syndrome is the major reason to not finding a real solution to their problem and are beating around the bush in any real topic.

After I have gone through the documentary and the links Mullah Omar have provided I will go point by point for the documentary and point by point of the refute in provided refute on another thread I should start as soon as I am done with it. It will take me between a week to ten days.

 

[Mullah Omar]

It is the not the question of whether there is truth in any of these BBC documentaries, the issue raised of lie or truth during the television show about Indira Gandhi. Deviate the subject to prove their pity is a basic drawback in many Pakistani thinking. My perception tells me that I am right, so you have to accept it, no matter there is truth in it. That is why, they still think they are the sufferers in Terrorism war, no matter what the world perception that they are more of a perpetrators than sufferers. I feel this syndrome is the major reason to not finding a real solution to their problem and are beating around the bush in any real topic.

and that is exactly the problem with indians. btw as I mentioned in previous posts I am not trying to deviate from the subject, I'm just pointing out the double standards.

 

[ASQR1]

Devis are reincarnated all the times. But the question is did she ever made this statement?

Looking at her acts as PM in life I can safely say that she would say this kind of thing. we have a saying in Pakistan that this kind of politician can........

Gudhey ko baap or baasp ko gadha bana lein gay agar zaroorat pary to, meaning that this kind of politician have no respect, honor and decency they will even make a donkey of thier father and visa versa if it will help them achieve their goals.

 

[awan4ever]

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?99496-Apple%92s-Q1-2012-results-37-million-iPhones-15-4-million-iPads-46-billion-cash&p=704952#post704952

WIN A PRIZE!!

 

[Unicorn]

Looking at her acts as PM in life I can safely say that she would say this kind of thing. we have a saying in Pakistan that this kind of politician can........

Gudhey ko baap or baasp ko gadha bana lein gay agar zaroorat pary to, meaning that this kind of politician have no respect, honor and decency they will even make a donkey of thier father and visa versa if it will help them achieve their goals.

I don't like her as a politician as well. I can safely say that a 1500 meter tall Heela monster with two heads and 11 arms lives of cost of Spain does it make it the truth?

 

[ASQR1]

I don't like her as a politician as well. I can safely say that a 1500 meter tall Heela monster with two heads and 11 arms lives of cost of Spain does it make it the truth?

Do I remember in some posts u prised her, now u say you do not like her, what gives.

About bal thakrey and modi, it is not enough to say we do not like them, if u a secular Democracy and see that they are inciting hatred than u should take them to court, but due to your lack of truthfull info to people on them people elect them, that is travesty of secularism and of Human rights.

 

[Unicorn]

Do I remember in some posts u prised her, now u say you do not like her, what gives.

About bal thakrey and modi, it is not enough to say we do not like them, if u a secular Democracy and see that they are inciting hatred than u should take them to court, but due to your lack of truthfull info to people on them people elect them, that is travesty of secularism and of Human rights.

You can't bring in any of my post where I have have praised her including this one your memory is shot.

You have no concept of what a secular democracy is I am going to say it again. A secular democracy ONLY means that the STATE treats all people equally not based on religions. A secular democracy does not mean that every one in it loves each other it is only as good as the people who live in it. India is still regarded and it is a third world country yes it is improving very slowly.

People like Bal Thakray and their organizations exists in every country including Pakistan. In England they are BNP they exist in Germany, France and in US. Free speech is fundamental to any democracy.

A

 

[ASQR1]

You can't bring in any of my post where I have have praised her including this one your memory is shot.

You have no concept of what a secular democracy is I am going to say it again. A secular democracy ONLY means that the STATE treats all people equally not based on religions. A secular democracy does not mean that every one in it loves each other it is only as good as the people who live in it. India is still regarded and it is a third world country yes it is improving very slowly.

People like Bal Thakray and their organizations exists in every country including Pakistan. In England they are BNP they exist in Germany, France and in US. Free speech is fundamental to any democracy.

A

so by saying that it works slowly you have tried to absolve these so called seclurist states from responsibility of going after these extremists when they have so much proof against them, in my opinion these so called secularist states are on one side calling themselves secularist but infect are religious by nature, and cleverly disguising their identity to fool those who are very clear about their identity.

Very clever, or cunning i might say. every time I hear about Europe, i hear it being Christian and about being Hindi, why so.

So hooray for china as they do not use these clever words, they are what they are. CHINA.

 

[Unicorn]

so by saying that it works slowly you have tried to absolve these so called seclurist states from responsibility of going after these extremists when they have so much proof against them, in my opinion these so called secularist states are on one side calling themselves secularist but infect are religious by nature, and cleverly disguising their identity to fool those who are very clear about their identity.

Very clever, or cunning i might say. every time I hear about Europe, i hear it being Christian and about being Hindi, why so.

So hooray for china as they do not use these clever words, they are what they are. CHINA.

There is a such think as slow improvement, may be not in your dictionary.

Now let me make it very clear I treat all religions equally I don't believe in any of them no exception. I am 46 years old an I had to deal with State of India hundreds of times and religion has never been a factor except once when I had to renew my Indian passport in US. In the renewal application they had a section that said religion............... I had never seen that before and I wrote None and took the application to the window. The girl looked at my application and said that you have to write your religion. I said I don't have it. She said write your parents religion. I said I don't know their religion. She said I can't accept your application unless it complete. I said I can't tell you my religion because I don't have any and I want to see your superior. She went out and brought another girl they both looked at the application and the superior said thats OK.

You still have not figured what a secular country is.

 

[ASQR1]

There is a such think as slow improvement, may be not in your dictionary.

Now let me make it very clear I treat all religions equally I don't believe in any of them no exception. I am 46 years old an I had to deal with State of India hundreds of times and religion has never been a factor except once when I had to renew my Indian passport in US. In the renewal application they had a section that said religion............... I had never seen that before and I wrote None and took the application to the window. The girl looked at my application and said that you have to write your religion. I said I don't have it. She said write your parents religion. I said I don't know their religion. She said I can't accept your application unless it complete. I said I can't tell you my religion because I don't have any and I want to see your superior. She went out and brought another girl they both looked at the application and the superior said thats OK.

You still have not figured what a secular country is.

I know what is a secular country should be, but let me tell you that there is no secular country in this world, they all hide behind secularism to make browny points with their internal forces who otherwise will make trouble for them.

Secularism is a term used by many and practised by none.

Secularism results in a loss of shame and will end in hedonism.

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

““Australia is a secular state and any Muslim immigrant who cannot accept that should leave.”

Peter Costello

So much fro secularism, read on.

I believe that pluralistic secularism, in the long run, is a more deadly poison than straightforward persecution.
Francis Schaeffer quotes

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[TD="width: 458"]But the West is trying to weaken Islam from outside and inside. They attack our people and invade our countries from outside, and they weaken us from within with ideas like secularism, liberalism and democracy. This is all designed to contaminate our pure Islam.
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[Unicorn]

I know what is a secular country should be, but let me tell you that there is no secular country in this world, they all hide behind secularism to make browny points with their internal forces who otherwise will make trouble for them.

Secularism is a term used by many and practised by none.

Secularism results in a loss of shame and will end in hedonism.

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

““Australia is a secular state and any Muslim immigrant who cannot accept that should leave.”

Peter Costello

So much fro secularism, read on.

I believe that pluralistic secularism, in the long run, is a more deadly poison than straightforward persecution.
Francis Schaeffer quotes

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 500"][TABLE="width: 515"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 458"]But the West is trying to weaken Islam from outside and inside. They attack our people and invade our countries from outside, and they weaken us from within with ideas like secularism, liberalism and democracy. This is all designed to contaminate our pure Islam.
Abu Bakar Bashir quotes [/TD]
[TD="width: 140, align: right"]0 up, 1 down
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[/TABLE]
About: Secularism quotes

Enjoy.


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Its a debate in it self and subject for a different thread. Start one and explain those quotes I will respond.

 

[only_truths]

Its a debate in it self and subject for a different thread. Start one and explain those quotes I will respond.

I would like to join the debate.

 

[hawaskapujari]

ASQR1, india is a complex country with very very different ehnicities, languages and religions. its secular in fundamental essense. if you do any survey in india, 90% of people will say (inluding hindu extremists) that they believe in secular values. unlike pakistan where a majority will say they want an islamic state or some version of that.

even the bal thackreys andmodis do not claim they want a hindu state. many ppolitical scientists call india a psephocracy, which means among democrtic values (elections, rule of law, constitution, judiciary etc.) the role of elections are the most important. for e.g. recently due to elections in UP, salman rushdie was neither allowed to enter the country nor participate via video link in the jaipur literature festival because every party was pandering for the 18% vote bank of muslims in UP. so looking at this event in isolation, one can argue that the indian state is partial towards muslims. but then we also know gujrat/babri and other such riots happen against muslims. all i would say is its a complex society where every region has its own domestic flavour of politics. kerela has 30% muslims who are better off than the 50-60% hindu population but less well off than the 20% christians. in bengal there have never been any riots in last 40 years. so pakistanis who look at india should not look at it as a monolith if they try to understand it.

for every aspect of india, both one extreme and another extreme exist at the same time. thackrey and modi cannot be prosecuted because in their states they are a heavy political force. if I or Unicorn went and killed a 100 muslims I will be prosecuted and hung the next day as we do not have a political constituency. and most of hindu extremists are just opportunists. the first target of thackrey were tamil migrants to bombay, then it became muslims and now he has aligned with the marathi muslims against the migrants from bihar and UP.

so by saying that it works slowly you have tried to absolve these so called seclurist states from responsibility of going after these extremists when they have so much proof against them, in my opinion these so called secularist states are on one side calling themselves secularist but infect are religious by nature, and cleverly disguising their identity to fool those who are very clear about their identity.

Very clever, or cunning i might say. every time I hear about Europe, i hear it being Christian and about being Hindi, why so.

So hooray for china as they do not use these clever words, they are what they are. CHINA.