Karbala: Lessons for the Muslim Ummah - MUST!!!

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dukelondon

Senator (1k+ posts)
Karbala: Lessons for the Muslim Ummah

Studying and contemplating history is a duty upon Muslims so that they can derive fruitful lessons and make use of them in changing their status quo. The revolution that Imam Al-Hussein made was a revolution against aggressive tyranny rather than against a certain ruler. Muslims today, with their Sunni and Shiite groups, need to unite as one force against all forms of arrogance, domination and injustice.

Moreover, it is not enough to stand against arrogance and injustice but Muslims should also exert great efforts to reform their internal conditions and establish the principles of consultation and choosing the leaders, as Almighty Allah has ordered, so that they can play their role in guiding humanity to the right path.

Sheikh Faysal Mawlawi, deputy chairman of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, issued the following fatwa on 29/2/2004:

The revolution that Imam Al-Hussein made was not a rebellion against a legal ruler; it was a revolution against a tyrant dictator, Yazid Ibn Mu`awiyah, who deprived the Ummah of its right to choose its rulers [by succeeding his father to the caliphate]. Besides, he was notorious for being corrupt and dissolute. The majority of the Sunni scholars and others agreed to that, and Ibn Hajar mentioned so in his book As-Sawa`iq Al-Muhriqah. By his revolution, Imam Al-Hussein's aim was not at all to support the Shiites, though the tragedy of Karbala (the place where Imam Al-Hussein was martyred) was a turning point in the history of the Shiites, for since then they were no longer a mere political group supporting the People of the House (Prophet Muhammad's descendents), but rather they became an independent school that had its own beliefs, jurisprudents, social organizations and system of rule.

The aim of Imam Al-Hussein behind such a revolution, as he declared it, was: "To reform the nation of my grandfather (Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him). This would imply putting an end to all kinds of corruption and deviation from the right path so that the nation could be united again. Uniting the nation would not be achieved in the existence of corruption; Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), is reported to have said: "My Ummah would not unite in supporting corruption."

Al-Hassan (Al-Hussein's brother) was eager to regain the unity of the Muslim Ummah, so he made conciliation with Mu`awiyah and conceded the caliphate to him for that purpose. Al-Hussein did seek the same aim but in a different way, for the circumstances (under which he made the revolution) were different.

Here, I would like to refer to the fact that Muslims at that time were not divided into Sunnis and Shiites in the way it is known nowadays. Anyway, all Muslims then believed that transferring the caliphate from Mu`awiyah to his son Yazid by means of inheritance was unlawful and that Al-Hussein, being a pious, honest and courageous person, was worthier of being the caliph then. However, they did not go to fight with him against Yazid's army. Besides, those who sent for Al-Hussein and urged him to go to war against Yazid let him down and did not fight with him. The senior Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) advised Al-Hussein not to go to war, but Allah's Will was that he would go and the tragedy of his martyrdom would take place to remain a disgraceful stain on our glorious history.

We have to review the objective reasons for the revolution of Al-Hussein, (may Allah be pleased with him). We can sum up such reasons into two:

First, he refused Yazid to assume the caliphate without consulting the nation. Second, he refused the corruption and absolutism practiced by Yazid.

The two reasons have to do with the Imamate (the caliphate or leadership). This was the first and most important subject on which controversy rose among the Muslims. It was because of that subject that fighting took place between Muslims. Throughout history, the controversy over that subject has focused on two theories.

According to the first one, the Imam is to be appointed by Almighty Allah; this theory has been adopted by the Shiites. The second theory is that of the Sunni and the majority of the Muslims; it states that Imams or leaders are to be chosen after consulting the Muslims in that regard.

Al-Hussein was an Imam for all the Muslims, Sunnis and Shiites. It is true that only a minority defended him while the majority of the Muslims, including the Shiites, who had urged him to confront Yazid, did not go to fight with him.

But a fair look at what happened thereafter shows that the Muslims became united. They did so in supporting Ibn Az-Zubayr in his revolution against Yazid. The Companions and their true followers remained in their houses in Madinah, refusing to pledge allegiance to Yazid, and Muslims took rejected Yazid's violating the sanctity of Madinah and its people. The Muslims also showed unity in supporting Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik in their ordeals because of their love for the People of the House and their support of those among them who revolted against the tyrant rulers.

The Muslims expressed their support of the people of the House. For example, Imam Ash-Shafi`i said, "If loving the People of Prophet Muhammad's House would be regarded a rebellion, then, let humankind and jinn bear witness that I am a rebel."

The call for Muslim unity today is not a motto; it is a duty that Allah has ordained on us and a necessary requirement to confront our enemy, whose sole aim is to uproot Islam and Muslims. Our enemy makes every effort in that regard.

Thus, we need an initiative to be taken by all movements and scholars in uniting our Muslim Ummah and establishing Allah's Law, so that we can confront our enemy.

We are one Ummah that testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His Messenger. So, let our actions and efforts be an expression of the unity in that regard; let our guiding principle be, (And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate ) (Aal-`Imran 3: 103)
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear dukelondon, I do not think that any of us is deliberately off the mark, so in my view it will be wrong to look at others that way.

All who believe are always sincere as far as they are concerned. In fact you cannot deceive yourselves even if you wanted to. The human mind stays true to itself regardless.

The problem is not sincerety of believers but that we are born ignorant and it takes time to learn and be able to judge things properly. It is not that you are born one day and the bext day you can be a judge in the supreme court.

So people are of two kinds when it comes to knowledge ie those who are born normal and those not born normal. Those who are born normal they are born in the set situations under set circumstances ie some have more opposrtunities and others little or none. So those who are given the opportunity it is they who really matter. They have the choice and the ability to learn and teach others and do as told by allah in the quran. It is people from amongst these who either make the effort or they do not. Some of these make the effort so even though they are born ignorant they do not die ignorant. However, they only learn as much as they desire or as much as their circumstances allow them. The rest may ignore the word of allah and go their own way, so they die ignorant as they were born.

It should be clear from this that believers though born ignorant do not die ignorant but how much have they learned depended on their situations and circumstances as well as thier intentions and efforts.

Not everyone is knowledgeable about islam to the same degree and because we each differ in our understanding of islam therefore we are right in some things we know about islam and wrong in other things.

By way of discussing and debating various points about islam we are helping each other find out the right way to look at islam and to be right about islam.

This is why we all must keep our cool and not accuse each other of things we ourselves cannot justfy or know very little about. So rather than thinking that others are wrong think about yourself if you are really right by knowing what others beloieve and why and tyhen if you see that your idea makes makes better sense to you then you wil be be more comfortable with it, otherwise you will doubt others and not be sure yourself because chances are 50 50 that you could be right as much as you could be wrong.

Most of the muslims never read books of other sects or religions yet dare accuse others for being ignorant. Also it is not about merely reading books but tryinbg to understanding contexts and framworks of other religions and sects that is important so one could see the cear differences and see which of these is more convincing for our minds with which therefore we are comfortable.

So people who cannot even explain their own view point should not accuse others rather we should try our best to do whatever we can to make ourselves as good as we can so that we make our world a better place in the hope of hereafter. So long we are moiving in the right direction and in the right way, we will end up where we intend to because allah loves those who think and are sincere.

As far as Hussain V Yazeed, there is no doubt that hussain was right and yazeed was wrong.

The fight was over spreading of proper islam properly. It was very same kind of fight that prophet had with makkans. Yazidiyat was about suppression and persecution, injustice and unfairness and master slave mentality against which hussain spoke out just like the prophet himself spoke out against makkan chiefs. This outraged yazeed because he saw his position of power or rule in danger. As kufar tried their tricks with the prophet, so yazeed tried with hussain. The prophet survived the onslaught of kufaar but hussain did not thanks to muslims who supported yazeed and tried their best to ensure his rule despite knowing yazeed as a person. This shows islam did not mean as much to them as yazeed and so muslims brotherhood is torn apart due to greed and selfishness of yazeed and his ilk.

The way the events took place, leave little room for us to believe that yazeed was even a muslims. Even if he is he has a lot to anwser for because due to him islam suffered a huge set back that it did not recover to date. Scholars like zakir bhai and others should refrain from praying for him because he has destroyed the ummah by taking out the very people out of ummah who really knew islam. He moved to cut off the head of this ummah. When you kill a leader you finish off the cause the leader leads. Even in a war if the king is killed the war is over. We do not need any proof more than that to see what he did was really evil and deeply ignorant of him. If a person is this evil that he rather destroy ummah just to get his hands on power, his jihad is no jihad but greed for more wealth and power over more land and people. Islam does not allow use of sword for spreading it because it is about winning hearts and minds of people. This is why people who know islam can die but not give it up. Hussain could not be intimidated and could not be bought because he was lover of islam because he understood islam the way prophet taught him so he had to be eliminated and he was. This shows hussain really believed in islam but yazeed did not. However we should not waste our time in cursing such nasty people rather it will be more productive if we understand the cause of hussain and his grandfather and support it as it deserves.

regards and all tyhe best.


http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50607-Pakistan-religion-secularism-amp-tribalism&

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...en-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan/page4
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc . all
involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events.
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc . all
involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events.

Well said, but who cares. It is our religion now.
People do not want to move forward.
 

Night_Hawk

Siasat.pk - Blogger
This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc .
all involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events
.

Very well said brother, let us move on and do some good for the Muslim Ummah and for our-self.
May Allah gives us the Strength to follow His Guidance.
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
Dear Moderator:

Just to draw your kind attention to highly sensitive issue here:


This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc . all
involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events.

Can you even imagine what he said:

"WAQA E KARBALA IS BEATING AROUND BUSH"!!!!!!!!!

For Allah's sake NO SECT in Islam can ever THINK to say this!!!!!!!!!

"GONE IS GONE"

Whom he is saying GONE????????

Imam Hussain Razi Allah Tala Anho is ALIVE, ALIVE, ALIVE!!!!!!!!

ALLAH KI KASAM IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI ALLAH TALA ANHO ZINDA HAIN

He says to FORGET about those wars as they are not PART OF EBADAH!!!!!

Today he is saying this, tomorrow he will say to FORGET about JANG E BADAR, JANGE UHUD, ALL GHAZWAT, ALL SARIYA, ALL THOSE WARS WHICH WERE FOUGHT BY SAHABA KARAM AND TAB'EEN RIZWAN ULLAJ TALA AJMAEEN AS "REMEMBERING THOSE IS NOT PART OF EBADAH"

He says that NO ONE SUPPORTED IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI ALLAH TALA ANHO AT THAT TIME!!!!!!!!!

How come he judged that??????

Does he know even 1 page of Muslim History?

Does he know what happened to Yazid's son, Ibne Ziyad and all others?

Does he know what happened in Madinah after this incident?

Were they all silent, they didn't do anything?

Does he mean MUSLIMS WERE SO COWARD TO SAVE THEIR LIVES THAT THEY DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM????????????

VERY VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATION AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!

He says that NO ONE LEARNT A LESSON FROM TRAGEDY!!!!!!!!!

No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am really speechless after reading such ALLEGATIONS and STRONGLY PROTEST and REQUEST to remove such REMARKS immediately.

I urge Babadeena to apologise for such post!!!!!!!
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear Moderator:
Just to draw your kind attention to highly sensitive issue here:
Can you even imagine what he said:
"WAQA E KARBALA IS BEATING AROUND BUSH"!!!!!!!!!
For Allah's sake NO SECT in Islam can ever THINK to say this!!!!!!!!!
"GONE IS GONE"
Whom he is saying GONE????????
Imam Hussain Razi Allah Tala Anho is ALIVE, ALIVE, ALIVE!!!!!!!!
ALLAH KI KASAM IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI ALLAH TALA ANHO ZINDA HAIN
He says to FORGET about those wars as they are not PART OF EBADAH!!!!!

Today he is saying this, tomorrow he will say to FORGET about JANG E BADAR,
JANGE UHUD, ALL GHAZWAT, ALL SARIYA, ALL THOSE WARS WHICH WERE FOUGHT BY
SAHABA KARAM AND TAB'EEN RIZWAN ULLAJ TALA AJMAEEN AS "REMEMBERING
THOSE IS NOT PART OF EBADAH"

He says that NO ONE SUPPORTED IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI
ALLAH TALA ANHO AT THAT TIME!!!!!!!!!

How come he judged that??????
Does he know even 1 page of Muslim History?
Does he know what happened to Yazid's son, Ibne Ziyad and all others?

Does he know what happened in Madinah after this incident?
Were they all silent, they didn't do anything?
Does he mean MUSLIMS WERE SO COWARD TO SAVE THEIR LIVES THAT THEY DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM????????????
VERY VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATION AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!
He says that NO ONE LEARNT A LESSON FROM TRAGEDY!!!!!!!!!
No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am really speechless after reading such ALLEGATIONS and STRONGLY
PROTEST and REQUEST to remove such REMARKS immediately.

I urge Babadeena to apologise for such post!!!!!!!

I think you follow the concept of "Hub-e-Ali and Bugzay Muwaya". What I wrote
I stand by it word by word and inch by inch.
Please do not inject so many irrelevant things in the topic, for example we are
not discussing" a) whether alive or not alive; b) we are not discussing the wars
you forcibly brought and compared with; c) we are not discussing "No sect""
business, etc etc.
For people like you, the incident of Karbala is business on which
you cash the ignorance of mass. Discussing these type of things is
surely not Ebaadaat , so that closes every thing. Be Optimistic
in your life and look forward.
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
I think you follow the concept of "Hub-e-Ali and Bugzay Muwaya". What I wrote
I stand by it word by word and inch by inch.
Please do not inject so many irrelevant things in the topic, for example we are
not discussing" a) whether alive or not alive; b) we are not discussing the wars
you forcibly brought and compared with; c) we are not discussing "No sect""
business, etc etc.
For people like you, the incident of Karbala is business on which
you cash the ignorance of mass. Discussing these type of things is
surely not Ebaadaat , so that closes every thing. Be Optimistic
in your life and look forward.

Skeptic?

Isn't Sir?

Why did you feel if I had any grievance against Hazrat Ma'awiya Razi Allah Tala Anho?

Who told you that Hub e Ali Razi Allah Tala Anho must be accompanied with Bugz e Ma'awayiya"!

Do you even know what you utter?

Insanity, nothing else Baba!
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Skeptic?

Isn't Sir?

Why did you feel if I had any grievance against Hazrat Ma'awiya Razi Allah Tala Anho?

Who told you that Hub e Ali Razi Allah Tala Anho must be accompanied with Bugz e Ma'awayiya"!

Do you even know what you utter?

Insanity, nothing else Baba!

Instead of writing "accusatory" words, you may have countered the post with
logic and proof:
a) Is it Ebaadaat;
b) Is doing such rituals on street and Majils are good deeds;
c) Is the principle of Hussainyat applicable in this world and if so where.
d) Do those people are aware of what people are doing in their name etc. etc.
As usual instead of being to the topic or on the topic, you ran from
pillar to post in useless effort.
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Dear Moderator:

Just to draw your kind attention to highly sensitive issue here:




Can you even imagine what he said:

"WAQA E KARBALA IS BEATING AROUND BUSH"!!!!!!!!!

For Allah's sake NO SECT in Islam can ever THINK to say this!!!!!!!!!

"GONE IS GONE"

Whom he is saying GONE????????

Imam Hussain Razi Allah Tala Anho is ALIVE, ALIVE, ALIVE!!!!!!!!

ALLAH KI KASAM IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI ALLAH TALA ANHO ZINDA HAIN

He says to FORGET about those wars as they are not PART OF EBADAH!!!!!

Today he is saying this, tomorrow he will say to FORGET about JANG E BADAR, JANGE UHUD, ALL GHAZWAT, ALL SARIYA, ALL THOSE WARS WHICH WERE FOUGHT BY SAHABA KARAM AND TAB'EEN RIZWAN ULLAJ TALA AJMAEEN AS "REMEMBERING THOSE IS NOT PART OF EBADAH"

He says that NO ONE SUPPORTED IMAM HUSSAIN RAZI ALLAH TALA ANHO AT THAT TIME!!!!!!!!!

How come he judged that??????

Does he know even 1 page of Muslim History?

Does he know what happened to Yazid's son, Ibne Ziyad and all others?

Does he know what happened in Madinah after this incident?

Were they all silent, they didn't do anything?

Does he mean MUSLIMS WERE SO COWARD TO SAVE THEIR LIVES THAT THEY DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM????????????

VERY VERY SERIOUS ALLEGATION AGAINST ALL MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!!

He says that NO ONE LEARNT A LESSON FROM TRAGEDY!!!!!!!!!

No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am really speechless after reading such ALLEGATIONS and STRONGLY PROTEST and REQUEST to remove such REMARKS immediately.

I urge Babadeena to apologise for such post!!!!!!!

Could u please tell us that what u learned fro Imam Hussain and his principles and his sacrifice.?

Leave the Babadena , just a single thing u r doing good because of Hazrat Imam Husain? Except attending the Majlis in Muharam.....

Hope u will not mind in telling.
 

Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
@Raaz & Babadeena ----- Bro's I disagree with ur part where u said GONE IS GONE.... a great part of Quran are on the stories of ANBIYA who are gone, but regardless of the fact tht u r seeing any lesson being learned from their stories no one stops telling them.... history make u realize ur mistakes, I agree when u said move forward and do good.... No one (as far as i m concerned) will disagree to this, tht v shud infact learn from such incidents, if v r not thts our mistake its not the problem of Karbala... it is there to open ppl eyes on how to defend our religion from inner problems... for outer attacks there are wars like UHUD and BADAR.... it shows us the character of a Mujahid of Islam... Karbala teaches u the importance of Namaaz... if Quran has made it farz theoratically, Karbala shows a practicle side of this order tht even at the time of Jang how the army of Imam Hussain offered their prayers... how Imam Hussain held Namaaz dear tht at the time of Shahadat he was performing Sajda....now adays v have problems, like too much work v look for shady parts of the mosque as it is too hot etc etc there are a tons of reasons ppl have to delay or leave their prayers... but when v look in Karbala v see ppl suffering from 3 days thirst, dont have water even for Wuzu, Maut ka Khauf, War, heat of the desert even after all this Imam Hussain is asking the enemy to grant time for Prayers and when they refused how some defended the rest while they were performing prayers... i mean leaving the prayer was not even in their minds! where as today even me and i think most of the ppl wud agree tht v leave and delay prayers for things which could certainly wait and v wud nt die if tht work is put in pending...now thts a positive thing move forward and apply it in ur life and tell the others this shud b what v shud b doing... just repeating the story in 10 days and get up and come home and watch tv and go back to our worldly things this is our stupidness and na-ahli...

v r mostly used to talk about secterian aspects of an incident which i also think is doing nothing but creating more disunity in our ummah.... when v talk about Jang-e-Uhud v shud discuss about how muslims faced defeat by just disobeying a single and small order of Huzoor (saww) (to remain at their designated places) and nowadays how many orders of Huzoor(saww) are v disobeying y dont v think tht this might b one of many reasons our nation (i.e. muslims on the whole) is such a bad estate.... Y dont v take inspiration from the few ppl who gave their lives in obeying Huzoor(saww) orders and fought bravely in defending Huzoor(saww)... i often see and hear ppl on how a great number of ppl left Huzoor(saww) in tht battle but no one seems to appreciate the ones who stayed behind! Y do v always have to pick negative aspects from something!


So, just reading Quran like a text book is not tht effective, even when kids are younger u read short stories to make them learn the importance of sharing, forgiving etc to inspire them, when a father or a mother prays their infant kids copies them and try to do what they are doing.. so humans do need practicals as well as stories, now if someone brings their logic into stuffs and doesnt tries to take the good stuff out of a event and apply it into their lives, thts our problem, n may b its just bcoz tht nowadays hum halak tuk musalmaan rehgaye hain... as Iqbal said Guftaar k Ghazi thts the saying tht suits us..... just like tht these stories are important to b told... Since no matter how much one tries to hide it or run away from it, it will always be there in History.. so its better to let others know of the great islamic personalities and their sacrifices they gave to protect this religion...

But by moviing forward I say moving forward doesnt has to mean leaving ur history but instead learning and moving forth to apply it....(best english i cud put together if i wrote something wrong do let me know i will re-type in urdu)
 

Newt0n

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
@Viela Mast ----- bro, everyone has his own way of looking at things... v shud remember tht ppl like Babadeena or Raaz are not disrespecting Imam Hussain, they just dont look at these events like v do, ppl have their own point of views and its not necessary ppl always agree on everything.... so just hear others out and give ur point of view what u think is best.... I being a shia hold Karbala in very high place in my heart... but i dont like to force everyone in this world to look at it the way i do... i read and try to learn but like every other human I have flaws and am not able to apply everything i know into my life... thts my flaw!

the main thing tht matters for me is tht every Shia or Sunni love Huzoor(saww) and his House Hold(saww) and thts the main thing... if u accept the Risalat of Huzoor(saww) one is a muslim and v shud always behave well with them and always think good about other muslims....
 

pakistan_pak

MPA (400+ posts)
This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc . all
involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events.

......................what a nice things you shared........salute
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Another making of a sectarian thread!!

Even worse is that lady Mehwish Ali coming with miles long posts defending her cause which kill the readers with boredom and one has to leave yawning half way through!! :D
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This is just beating the bush thing. Gone is gone now.
From wars of camel, Saffin, Attack on Medina, Karbala etc . all
involved without any exception, will be answerable to their
Lord. We cannot UNDO their doings now. Let us move
forward and take care of our own deeds. Definitely
discussing Hussain, Karbala, Yazid etc is not part of our
Ebaadat and neither this sort of discussion counts or increment
into our "deeds", rather there is a strong potential to get
harm in discussing these things. Past is past. When it was
time no one supported Hussain(as), everyone or mostly
people betrayed him. One thing is sure, no one derive the
lesson from this tragedy and no one applies Hussain's
principle in our lives. So betterment it will never
give us to discuss these fratricidal past events.

One should learn lessens from history. Even animals do that.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
@NewtOn,

a) You have a sovereign right to differ. and I respect that.
b) The example of Anbiyah is not fitting here. Because what are the
"qisas"(stories) of Anbiyah are documented in a book on which
our faith is unshakeable. Whereas the "narrations of karbala"
have reached us from tell-tales type source.
c) Namaz was offered before the Karbala and even after the
Karbala.

d) I, personally, do not believe or support any "sect" and am
alergic to even this word. Everyone is entitled to his/her own views.

Unfortunately we have restricted the tragedy of Karbala only
to narrations. The Lesson which it contains is nowhere evident
in this world. You will find everywhere refined form of
Yazid's alleged attributes and will not find the projected
and real applicability of Hussainiyat. Rest all are Majils, Jalsoos,
Tazia, and Zakirs far-fetched and self-imaginatory things
which they have successfully inducted into this inicident.
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)

Could u please tell us that what u learned fro Imam Hussain and his principles and his sacrifice.?

Leave the Babadena , just a single thing u r doing good because of Hazrat Imam Husain? Except attending the Majlis in Muharam.....

Hope u will not mind in telling.


Come on guys:


What are you talking about, why you are taking it on JUST individual basis.


Probably someone is aware of Hofsted Model to understand International Culture which has four dimensions, among them is Individualism/Collectivism that establishes the fact how society takes things.


Why you are taking “Saniha e Karbala” on individual basis, why don't you take it on collective basis to learn?


If you have read modern management sciences then you must be aware of difference between Risk and Uncertainty.


Uncertainty: where PREVIOUS statistical data is not available to anticipate future


Risk: where PREVIOUS data is there to anticipate future.


So uncertainty CAN'T be avoided BUT risk COULD be mitigated.


Therefore we have modern terminology like DATA WAREHOUSE, DATA MINING, DATA EXTRACTION, META DATA etc.


That's how Dash Boards work to help managers at Strategic Apex, Middle Management and Operational Level.


Having said that:


Now listen to Allah who has told us importance of PREVIOUS data as follows:


One of Purposes of Quran


Surat Saad, Ayat No. 29

کِتٰبٌ اَنۡزَلْنٰہُ
اِلَیۡکَ مُبٰرَکٌ لِّیَدَّبَّرُوۡۤا اٰیٰتِہٖ وَ لِیَتَذَکَّرَ اُولُوا الْاَلْبَابِ

یہ ایک کتاب ہے کہ ہم نے تمہاری طرف اتاری برکت والی تاکہ اس کی آیتوں کو سوچیں اور عقلمند نصیحت مانیں


[Saad 38:29] This is a Book which We have sent down upon you, a blessed Book, for them to ponder upon its verses, and for men of intellect to accept advice.

Surat Haaqqah, Ayat No. 48

وَ اِنَّہٗ لَتَ
ذْکِرَۃٌ لِّلْمُتَّقِیۡنَ

اور بے شک یہ قرآن ڈر والوں کو نصیحت ہے


[Haqqah 69:48] And indeed this Qur’an is an advice for the pious.


Surat Mozammil, Ayat No. 19

تَذْکِرَۃٌ ۚ فَمَنۡ شَآءَ اتَّخَذَ
اِلٰی رَبِّہٖ سَبِیۡلًا

بے شک یہ نصیحت ہے تو جو چاہے اپنے رب کی طرف راہ لے


[Muzzammil 73:19] This is indeed an advice; so whoever wishes may take the path towards his Lord.

Who Accepts Advice?

Surah Baqrah, Ayat 269

یُّؤۡتِی الْحِکْمَۃَ مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ ۚ وَمَنۡ یُّؤْتَ الْحِکْمَۃَ فَقَدْ اُوۡتِیَ خَیۡرًا کَثِیۡرًا ؕ
وَمَا یَذَّکَّرُ اِلَّاۤ اُوْلُوا الۡاَلْبَاب

اللّٰہ حکمت دیتا ہے جسے چاہے اور جسے حکمت مِلی اُسے بہت بھلائی ملی اور نصیحت نہیں مانتے مگر عقل والے


[Baqarah 2:269] Allah bestows wisdom on whomever He wills; and whoever receives wisdom has received abundant goodness; but none heed advice except men of understanding.


Surah An’aam, Ayat No. 125


فَمَنَ یُّرِدِ اللہُ اَنۡ یَّہۡدِیَہٗ یَشْرَحْ صَدْرَہٗ لِلۡاِسْلَامِ ۚ وَمَنۡ یُّرِدْ اَنۡ یُّضِلَّہٗ یَجْعَلْ صَدْرَہٗ ضَیِّقًا حَرَجًا کَاَنَّمَا یَصَّعَّدُ فِی السَّمَآءِ ؕ کَذٰلِکَ یَجْعَلُ اللہُ الرِّجْ
سَ عَلَی الَّذِیۡنَ لَا یُؤْمِنُوۡنَ

اور جسے اللّٰہ راہ دکھانا چاہے اس کا سینہ اسلام کے لئے کھول دیتا ہے اور جسے گمراہ کرنا چاہے اس کا سینہ تنگ خوب رکا ہوا کردیتا ہے گویا کسی کی زبردستی سے آسمان پر چڑھ رہا ہے اللّٰہ یونہی عذاب ڈالتا
ہے ایمان نہ لانے والوں کو


[Ana`am 6:125] And whomever Allah wills to guide, He opens his bosom for Islam; and whomever He wills to send astray, He makes his bosom narrow and firmly bound as if he were being forced by someone to climb the skies; this is how Allah places the punishment on those who do not believe.


Indication and Purpose of Past Incidents


Surah Baqrah, Ayat No. 66

فَجَعَلْنٰہَا نَکَالًا لِّمَا بَیۡنَ یَدَیۡہَا وَمَا خَلْفَہَ
ا وَمَوْعِظَۃً لِّلْمُتَّقِیۡنَ

تو ہم نے اس بستی کایہ واقعہ اس کے آگے اور پیچھے والوں کے لئے عبرت کردیا اور پرہیزگاروں کے لئے نصیحت


[Baqarah 2:66] So We made this incident (of that town) a warning to the surrounding towns (others of their time) and to succeeding generations, and a lesson for the pious.


Surah Al e Imran, Ayar No. 137-138

قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنۡ قَبْلِکُمْ سُنَنٌ ۙ فَسِیۡرُوۡا فِی الۡاَرْضِ فَانْظُرُوۡا کَیۡفَ کَانَ عَاقِبَۃُ
الْمُکَذِّبِیۡنَ

تم سے پہلے کچھ طریقے برتاؤ میں آچکے ہیں تو زمین میں چل کر دیکھو کیسا انجام ہوا جھٹلانے والوں کا

ا بَیَانٌ لِّلنَّاسِ وَہُدًی
وَّمَوْعِظَۃٌ لِّلْمُتَّقِیۡنَ

یہ لوگوں کو بتانا اور راہ دکھانا اور پرہیزگاروں کو نصیحت ہے

[A/I`mran 3:137] Some traditions have been tried before you - therefore travel in the land and see what sort of fate befell those who denied.

[A/I`mran 3:138] This is an explanation for mankind, a guidance and an advice to the pious.

Surah Nisa, Ayat No. 26

یُرِیۡدُ اللہُ لِیُبَیِّنَ لَکُمْ وَیَہۡدِیَکُمْ سُنَنَ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبْلِکُمْ وَیَتُوۡبَ عَلَیۡکُمْ ؕ وَال
لہُ عَلِیۡمٌ حَکِیۡمٌ ﴿۲۶﴾

اللّٰہ چاہتا ہے کہ اپنے احکام تمہارے لئے صاف بیان کردے اورتمہیں اگلوں کی روشیں بتادے اور تم پر اپنی رحمت سے رجوع فرمائے اور اللّٰہ علم و حکمت والا ہے


[Nisa 4:26] Allah wills to explain His commands to you and show you the ways of those before you, and to incline towards you with His mercy; and Allah is All Knowing, Wise.

Surah Tauba, Ayat No. 70


اَلَمْ یَاۡتِہِمْ نَبَاُ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبْلِہِمْ قَوْمِ نُوۡحٍ وَّعَادٍ وَّثَمُوۡدَ ۬ۙ وَقَوْمِ اِبْرٰہِیۡمَ وَاَصْحٰبِ مَدْیَنَ وَالْمُؤْتَفِکٰتِ ؕ اَتَتْہُمْ رُسُلُہُمۡ بِالْبَیِّنٰتِ ۚ فَمَا کَانَ اللہُ لِیَظْلِمَہُمْ وَلٰکِنۡ کَانُوۡۤا اَنۡ
فُسَہُمْ یَظْلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۷۰

کیا انہیں اپنے سے اگلوں کی خبر نہ آئی نوح کی قوم اور عاد اور ثمود اور ابراہیم کی قوم اور مدین والے اور وہ بستیاں کہ الٹ دی گئیں ان کے رسول روشن دلیلیں ان کے پاس لائے تھے تو اللّٰہ کی شان نہ تھی کہ ان پر ظلم کرتا بلکہ وہ خود ہی اپنی جانوں پر ظالم تھے


[Taubah 9:70] Did not the news of those before them reach them - the people of Nooh, and the A’ad, and the Thamud - the people of Ibrahim, the people of Madyan and the dwellings that were overturned? Their Noble Messengers had brought clear proofs to them; so it did not befit Allah’s Majesty to oppress them, but in fact they wronged themselves.

Surat Taha, Ayat No. 99

کَذٰلِکَ نَقُصُّ عَلَیۡکَ مِنْ اَنۡۢـبَآءِ مَا قَدْ سَبَقَ ۚ وَ قَ
دْ اٰتَیۡنٰکَ مِنۡ لَّدُنَّا ذِکْرًا

ہم ایسا ہی تمہارے سامنے اگلی خبریں بیان فرماتے ہیں اور ہم نے تم کو اپنے پاس سے ایک ذکر عطا فرمایا


[Ta-Ha 20:99] This is how We relate the former tidings to you (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him); and We have given you a Remembrance * from Ourselves. (*The Holy Qur’an.)


Surat Ambiya, Ayat No. 24

اَمِ اتَّخَذُوۡا مِنۡ دُوۡنِہٖۤ اٰلِہَۃً ؕ قُلْ ہَاتُوۡا بُرْہَانَکُمْ ۚ ہٰذَا ذِکْرُ مَنۡ مَّعِیَ وَ ذِکْرُ مَنۡ قَبْلِیۡ ؕ بَلْ اَکْثَرُہُمْ لَا یَعْلَمُوۡنَ
ۙ الْحَقَّ فَہُمۡ مُّعْرِضُوۡنَ

کیا اللّٰہ کے سوا اور خدا بنا رکھے ہیں تم فرماؤ اپنی دلیل لاؤ یہ قرآن میرے ساتھ والوں کا ذکر ہے اور مجھ سے اگلوں کا تذکرہ بلکہ ان میں اکثر حق کو نہیں جانتے تو وہ رو گرداں ہیں

[Ambiya 21:24] Or have they set up other Allahs besides Allah? Say, "Bring your proof; this is the remembrance of those with me and those before me"; but in fact most of them do not know the Truth, so they turn away.


Surah Momin, Ayat No. 21

اَوَ لَمْ یَسِیۡرُوۡا فِی الْاَرْضِ فَیَنۡظُرُوۡا کَیۡفَ کَانَ عَاقِبَۃُ الَّذِیۡنَ کَانُوۡا مِنۡ قَبْلِہِمْ ؕ کَانُوۡا ہُمْ اَشَدَّ مِنْہُمْ قُوَّۃً وَّ اٰثَارًا فِی الْاَرْضِ فَاَخَذَہُمُ اللہُ بِذُنُوۡبِہِمْ ؕ وَمَا
کَانَ لَہُمۡ مِّنَ اللہِ مِنۡ وَّاقٍ

تو کیا انہوں نے زمین میں سفر نہ کیا کہ دیکھتے کیسا انجام ہوا ان سے اگلوں کا ان کی قوّت اور زمین میں جو نشانیاں چھوڑ گئے ان سے زائد تو اللّٰہ نے انہیں ان کے گناہوں پر پکڑا اور اللّٰہ سے ان کا کوئی بچانے والا نہ ہوا


[Momin 40:21] So did they not travel in the land in order to see what sort of fate befell those before them? Their strength and the signs they left behind in the earth, exceeded them - so Allah seized them on account of their sins, and they had no one to save them from Allah.

Surah Zukhruf, Ayat No. 55-56

فَلَمَّاۤ اٰسَفُوۡنَا انۡتَقَمْنَا مِنْہُ
مْ فَاَغْرَقْنٰہُمْ اَجْمَعِیۡنَ

پھر جب انہوں نے وہ کیا جس پر ہمارا غضب ان پر آیا ہم نے ان سے بدلہ لیا تو ہم نے ان سب کو ڈبودیا

فَجَعَلْنٰہُمْ سَلَفًا وَّ مَثَلًا لِّلْاٰخِرِیۡنَ

انہیں ہم نے کردیا اگلی داستان اور کہاوت پچھلوں کے لئے


[Zukhruf 43:55] So when they made Us wrathful, We took revenge from them - We therefore drowned all of them.

[Zukhruf 43:56] So We made them a bygone fable and a lesson for the latter generations.


Surah Mujadilah, Ayat No. 5

اِنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ یُحَآدُّوۡنَ اللہَ وَ رَسُوۡلَہٗ کُبِتُوۡا کَمَا کُبِتَ الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبْلِہِمْ وَ قَدْ اَنۡزَلْنَاۤ اٰیٰتٍۭ بَیِّنٰتٍ ؕ وَ لِلْکٰ
فِرِیۡنَ عَذَابٌ مُّہِیۡنٌ ۚ﴿۵

بیشک وہ جو مخالفت کرتے ہیں اللّٰہ اور اس کے رسول کی ذلیل کئے گئے جیسے ان سے اگلوں کو ذلّت دی گئی اور بیشک ہم نے روشن آیتیں اتاریں اور کافروں کے لئے خواری کا عذاب ہے


[Mujadilah 58:5] Indeed those who oppose Allah and His Noble Messenger have been humiliated, like those before them who were humiliated, and We have indeed sent down clear verses; and for the disbelievers is a disgraceful punishment.


Now listen what we say in our prayers!

[Fatihah 1:5] Guide us on the Straight Path.

[Fatihah 1:6] The path of those whom You have favoured -

[Fatihah 1:7] Not the path of those who earned Your anger - nor of those who are astray.


Surah Baqrah, Ayat No. 286

لَا یُکَلِّفُ اللہُ نَفْسًا اِلَّا وُسْعَہَا ؕ لَہَا مَا کَسَبَتْ وَعَلَیۡہَا مَا اکْتَسَبَتْ ؕ رَبَّنَا لَا تُؤَاخِذْنَاۤ اِنۡ نَّسِیۡنَاۤ اَوْ اَخْطَاۡنَا ۚ رَبَّنَا وَلَا تَحْمِلْ عَلَیۡنَاۤ اِصْرًا کَمَا حَمَلْتَہٗ عَلَی الَّذِیۡنَ مِنۡ قَبْلِنَا ۚ رَبَّنَا وَلَا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لَا طَاقَۃَ لَنَا بِہٖ ۚ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا ٝ وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ٝ وَارْحَمْنَا ٝ اَنۡتَ مَوْلٰىنَا فَانۡصُرْنَا عَلَی الْقَوْمِ الْکٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۲۸۶

اللّٰہ کسی جان پر بوجھ نہیں ڈالتا مگر اس کی طاقت بھر اس کا فائدہ ہے جو اچھا کمایا اور اس کا نقصان ہے جو بڑائی کمائی اے رب ہمارے ہمیں نہ پکڑ اگر ہم بھولیں یا چوکیں اے رب ہمارے اور ہم پر بھاری بوجھ نہ رکھ جیسا تو نے ہم سے اگلوں پر رکھا تھا اے رب ہمارے اور ہم پر وہ بوجھ نہ ڈال جس کی ہمیں سہار نہ ہو اور ہمیں معاف فرمادے اور بخش دے اور ہم پر مہر کر تو ہمارا مولیٰ ہے تو کافروں پر ہمیں مدد دے


[Baqarah 2:286] Allah does not burden anyone, except with something within its capacity; beneficial for it is the virtue it earned, and harmful for it is the evil it earned; "Our Lord! Do not seize us if we forget or are mistaken; our Lord! And do not place on us a heavy burden (responsibility) as You did on those before us; our Lord! And do not impose on us a burden, for which we do not have the strength; and pardon us - and forgive us - and have mercy on us - You are our Master, therefore help us against the disbelievers."

So Allah has described these PREVIOUS incidents to get lessons from them but there were some people at that time as well like NOW who used to take these stories sarcastically!

Surah An’aam, Ayat No. 25

وَ مِنْہُم مَّنۡ یَّسْتَمِعُ اِلَیۡکَ ۚ وَ جَعَلْنَا عَلٰی قُلُوۡبِہِمْ اَکِنَّۃً اَنۡ یَّفْقَہُوۡہُ وَفِیۡۤ اٰذَانِہِمْ وَ قْرًا ؕ وَ اِنۡ یَّرَوْا کُلَّ اٰیَۃٍ لَّا یُؤْمِنُوۡا بِہَا ؕ حَتّٰۤی اِذَا جَآءُوۡکَ یُجَادِلُوۡنَکَ یَقُوۡلُ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اِنْ ہٰذَ
اۤ اِلَّاۤ اَسَاطِیۡرُ الۡاَوَّلِیۡنَ

اور ان میں کوئی وہ ہے جو تمہاری طرف کان لگاتا ہے اور ہم نے انکے دلوں پر غلاف کردیئے ہیں کہ اسے نہ سمجھیں اور ان کے کان میں ٹینٹ اور اگر ساری نشانیاں دیکھیں تو ان پر ایمان نہ لائیں گے یہاں تک کہ جب تمہارے حضور تم سے جھگڑتے حاضر ہوں تو کافر کہیں یہ تو نہیں مگر اگلوں کی داستانیں


[Ana`am 6:25] And among them is one who listens to you; and We have put covers upon their hearts so they may not understand it, and deafness in their ears; and (even) if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; to the extent that when they come to you to debate with you, the disbelievers say, “This is nothing but stories of former people.”


Surah Anfal, Ayat No. 31

وَ اِذَا تُتْلٰی عَلَیۡہِمْ اٰیٰتُنَا قَالُوۡا قَدْ سَمِعْنَا لَوْ نَشَآءُ لَقُلْنَا مِثْلَ ہٰذَاۤ ۙ اِنْ ہٰذَاۤ
اِلَّاۤ اَسَاطِیۡرُ الۡاَوَّلِیۡنَ

اور جب ان پر ہماری آیتیں پڑھی جائیں توکہتے ہیں ہاں ہم نے سنا ہم چاہتے تو ایسی ہم بھی کہہ دیتے یہ تو نہیں مگر اگلوں کے قصّے


[Anfal 8:31] And when Our verses are recited to them they say, "Yes, we have heard - if we wanted we could also say something like this - these are nothing but stories of former people!"


Surat Nahl, Ayat No. 24

وَ اِذَا قِیۡلَ لَہُمۡ مَّاذَاۤ اَنۡزَلَ رَبُّکُمْ ۙ
قَالُوۡۤا اَسَاطِیۡرُ الۡاَوَّلِیۡنَ

اور جب ان سے کہا جائے تمہارے رب نے کیا اتارا کہیں اگلوں کی کہانیاں ہیں

[Nahl 16:24] And when it is said to them, "What has your Lord sent down?", they say, "The tales of former people."

Surat Mominoon, Ayat No. 83

لَقَدْ وُعِدْنَا نَحْنُ وَاٰبَآؤُنَا ہٰذَا مِنۡ قَبْلُ اِنْ ہٰذَاۤ اِ
لَّاۤ اَسَاطِیۡرُ الْاَوَّلِیۡنَ ﴿۸۳

بیشک یہ وعدہ ہم کو اور ہم سے پہلے ہمارے باپ دادا کو دیا گیا یہ تو نہیں مگر وہی اگلی داستانیں

[Mominun 23:83] "Indeed this promise was given to us and before us to our forefathers – this is nothing but stories of earlier people."

Surat Furqan, Ayat No. 5

وَ قَالُوۡۤا اَسَاطِیۡرُ الْاَوَّلِیۡنَ اکْتَتَبَہَا فَہِیَ تُمْلٰی عَلَیۡ
ہِ بُکْرَۃً وَّ اَصِیۡلًا ﴿۵

اور بولے اگلوں کی کہانیاں ہیں جو انہوں نے لکھ لی ہیں تو وہ ان پر صبح و شام پڑھی جاتی ہیں


[Furqan 25:5] And they said, “These are stories of the former people, which he has written down, so they are read to him morning and evening.”

Surah Qalam, Ayat No. 15

اِذَا تُتْلٰی عَلَیۡہِ اٰیٰتُنَا قَا
لَ اَسَاطِیۡرُ الْاَوَّلِـیۡنَ ﴿۱۵

جب اس پر ہماری آیتیں پڑھی جائیں کہتا ہے اگلوں کی کہانیاں ہیں

[Qalam 68:15] When Our verses are recited to him, he says, “These are stories of earlier people.”


I hope I have made you guys clear IMPORTANCE of previous incidence and I believe Allah has given you skills to extract information from Saniha e Karbala.
Though I follow Imam e Azam Abu Hanifa Razi Allah Tala Anho yet in respect of Ahl e Bait I take words of Imam Shafi Razi Allah Tala Anho who said “ If Hub e Ahl e Bair is Rafiziyat then behold I am the BIGGEST Rafzi”

May Allah lead us on footsteps of Imam Hussain Razi Allah Tala Anho.

Aa’meen Bijahe Nabi ul Ameen
 
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