LADY IMAM: Women Lead Salat | It's Haram

anasmr

Councller (250+ posts)
Jee han mubarak ho mullah jee ek awr 'kaafir' dryaaaft hoa! Islam ki khidmat hogayee...ab ura do changez khan ki tarah...ta ke Islam ka 'saheeh' puraman chehra la sako dunya ke samne! Chalo ab 'fatwa' jari karo.... Grow up guy!

OHOHO!!! Khul gaya beta tu bhi!! Sari asliat khul gaee teri. Namaz ki rakaat aur zakat bhi change hosakte hain? Now i know where your loyalties lie. Zahir aur baatin khul gaye. Mubarak to all members (clap)
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Don't worry boy. Fatwa main nahe dun ga. Allah (SWT) k hukm ko badalnay walay par to quran ka fatwa hai. Mere endorse ya oppose karne se kuch nahe hoga. Main to bas is liyeh khush hun k mujhe ab samajh aya keh aap aisi ulti baatain kahan se latay the. Mystery solved.
 

Saboo

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
My friend Khanpanni...don't spread lies...I never said I follow anyone. I do not follow anyone blindly. I use my own brain that Allah has given me as gift and tool to think with. I'll always appreciate good things from anyone including Mirza sb and avoid bad things including those from Mirza sb if there are any. I do not follow any human blindly. Humans are humans and not Gods.

Could you tell us some good things you appreciate about Mirza sb?
 

w-a-n-t-e-d-

Minister (2k+ posts)
intentions is clear to alert everyone about fitna spreading and we muslims sleep like always:angry_smile:


aysi khabray or unautehntic logo ko yahan share nahi karayin apko siasat pk k hallaat ka andaza nahi hai.
guzarish hai apsay dont mind...
 

MuslimPK

Voter (50+ posts)
Jee han mubarak ho mullah jee ek awr 'kaafir' dryaaaft hoa! Islam ki khidmat hogayee...ab ura do changez khan ki tarah...ta ke Islam ka 'saheeh' puraman chehra la sako dunya ke samne! Chalo ab 'fatwa' jari karo.... Grow up guy!

OHOHO!!! Khul gaya beta tu bhi!! Sari asliat khul gaee teri. Namaz ki rakaat aur zakat bhi change hosakte hain? Now i know where your loyalties lie. Zahir aur baatin khul gaye. Mubarak to all members (clap)
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Is doctorplato ke shakal he say nahoosat tapak rahe hay. Iblees laeen ke aulaad. Thats why Muslims are instructed to follow Islamic manner while love making (mubashrat), otherwise iblees take part in the action and the children will be like doctorplato.
 

simple_and_peacefull

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
dear sister amna,

Asalam u Alaikum,

i & others understand your point on this issue. we had this hard discussion some time back in an other thread. if i am able find that then i will post link later or mods can find that they can merge it. secondly thing sister i want to say that there are some misguided people who don't want to understand what others say they just rise useless points with lack on knowledge. these like doctor-PET (paltoo).

we can do duaa for him only rest is upto him what he want to be.


intentions is clear to alert everyone about fitna spreading and we muslims sleep like always:angry_smile:
 

A.Ali.T

Minister (2k+ posts)
Why it is haram. are women not human beings ?

تنظی دیکھو اگر بحث کرنی ہے تو کسی اور سے کرو - ہاں اگر واقعی بات سمجھنی ہے تو میں اپنی راے آپکو بتا سکتا ہوں - دیکھیے ہمارا دین فطرت کے بہت قریب ہے اور مردوں کی فطرت میں ہے کہ وہ جنسی طور پر عورتوں کی طرف مایل ہوتے ہیں اب آپ خود سوچیے کہ اگر ایک عورت آپکے سامنے کھڑی ہے اور اپنی دل لبھانے والی آواز میں قران پڑھ رہی ہے تو آپکا دھیان نماز میں نہیں ہوگا بلکہ آپکے دل میں بیہودہ قسم کے خیالات آئینگے - اب آپ یہ کہیںگے کہ اس میں عورت کا کیا قصور ہے بلکہ قصور تو مردوں کا ہے - بات قصور کی نہیں ہے بات انسانی فطرت کی ہے
 

shehreyar

MPA (400+ posts)
shaur rakhnay wala koi bhi soch sakta hay kay jab allah tala nahy awrat ko parday ki talqeen ki hay tu allah kaysay ya qabool karay kay woh awrat mardon ki imam banay allah tala nay awraton ki hadod mauqarer ki haienjab woh tajawaz karey gi tu fitana banay gi so woh ban gai.
 

Chaudhry_1960

Minister (2k+ posts)
The Muslim Canadian Congress is formed and run by some Qadianis mainly from Pakistan and Uganda, they also allow things like gay se@x and gay marriages. They are a small group which is well funded and well supported by influential people in Canada but not well received by muslims of Canada. Please beware of what you see and hear about and by MCC.

The person who posted it here seems to have clear connection with MCC agenda.
 

Zaidi Qasim

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Tu kya hoa...ek imam ka permanent hona zarori tu nahi...Islam mai mullayiat nahi...lihaza beemari ke soorat mai koi awr khatoon kar sakti hai ye kam! Jis tarah ek mard imam ki beemari ya unavailability ki soorat mai doos replace kar sakta hai!


Where did I say that you need a permanent Imam , Smarty ? You didn't get the point. Women are exempt from praying on certain days and are not obligated to pray in jamat and in Mosque five times a day as men are required to do. They can stay home and get the same benefit as of praying in mosque.The anatomy of men and women is different . I am sure the brand of Islam you promote doesn't say anything about homosexual and their behavioural practices. I am also aware that you can prove it with your twisted logic that it is according to Islam. You can do whatever you like to do and wish to do.I have met muslims in west who drink alcohol and eat pork but still call themselves good and liberal muslims.I do not want to argue with you since there is no point talking to someone like you.My post was not addressed to you either. Allah give all of us hidayeh.
 

mona khan

Voter (50+ posts)
Why it is haram. are women not human beings ?

A Brief Description of the Question:*
Can women be imam for men and women?
The Answer:*
Jurisprudential aspect of the issue:
*Womens duty as imam in prayers is divided into two as womens duty as imam for women and for a mixed community (men and women together) or for only men.
*As for womens duty as imam for other women, there is information in hadith sources that when Umm Salama and Aisha, wives of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), lead the prayers as imam for women, they did not stand in front of other women and performed the prayer with them in the middle of the first line. Islamic jurisprudents have found it permissible for women to carry out the duty of Imams for other women both in daily prayers and tarawih prayers. However, according to Hanafis, it is abominably permissible.
*As for womens duty as imam for a mixed community of men and women or only for men, the Prophet exceptionally allowed a woman named Ummu Waraqa, a hafiz of the Quran, to carry out the duty of imam for her own household, which is stated in early hadith sources. Ummu Waraqas household consisted of two slaves, one man and one woman, whom she set free on condition that they would be free after her death. The male slave was old. (Abu Dawud, Salat, 61; Ahmad b. Hanbal, Musnad, 6/405; Ibn-i Sad, Tabaqat, 8/457; Bayhaqi, Sunan-i Kubra, 1/456). Judging by this narration, some scholars such as Imam Ahmad, Abu Thawr, Muzani, Tabari and Ibn Taymiyya stated that women can be imam for men when there is an obligation.

*However, mujtahids such as Imam Azam Abu Hanifa and Shafii and the majority of jurisprudents did not admit it permissible for women to be imams for men. If such a prayer was performed, mens prayers would be invalid; they have to perform it again; because as it is narrated from Hazrat Jabir and Hazrat Ali, Women cannot be imam for men (Bayhaqi, Sunan, 3/90; Ibn-i Abi Shayba, Musannaf, 1/430; Ibn-i Rushd, Bidayatul-Mujtahid, 1/114; Zukhayli, al-Fiqhul-Islami and Adillatuhu, 2/175; Nawawi, al-Majmu, 4/223; Din İşleri Yksek Kurulu Kararları, Presidency of Religious Affairs, 23.06.2002)

On the other hand, another narration in Daraqutni is that our Prophet allowed Ummu Waraqa to be imam for other women in prayers. (Daraqutni, Sunan, 1/279). Anyway, it can be seen clearly that our Prophet allowed a woman to be imam in prayers only for a female slave and an old male slave who were in her house. Those people whom she led the prayer for were her own household. And it was a specific case.
In addition, the Messenger of Allah stated that it was more virtuous for women to perform their prayers at home. (Abu Dawud, salat, 53; Ahmad b. Hanbal, Musnad, 6/371; Mustadrak, 1/328).
Social and political aspects of the issue:
Today we are faced with the misunderstanding of the issue of woman in Islam. Those who cannot see the whole picture of Islam consider the fact that women cannot be imam in prayers as evidence that women are deemed second-class people in Islam. However, during the times when women were not treated like human beings, humankind saw a true equality between men and women owing to the prophets who are the representatives and conveyors of the divine revelation. Nevertheless, today womens physical appearance and femininity are highlighted, which is considered to be the freedom of women, and women are put forward as people who have to fight against men. If we can be objective and reasonable we will see that it is indeed Islam that brought true equality between men and women. Islam has not only given importance to women when they had physical attractiveness, but also in their childhood, adulthood, in marriage, as mothers, as aunts and as grandmothers, in short, in all stages of their lives, and respected them.
*It is not inequality but justice to evaluate men and women separately because they are created with different characteristics and different structures. Allah created women with characteristics such as delicacy, chastity, compassion and motherhood. No human being can give women more than what Allah gave them. Every right which seems to be given to women degrades them and makes them look ridiculous; because the Creator knows the best for us; if only we could understand divine revelation truly. There is not a sura (chapter) named men in the Quran. It is stated And in nowise covet those things in which God hath bestowed His gifts more freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn in the 32nd verse of chapter an-Nisa, which means women.
Allah created both men and women as human beings. However, He placed in their natures different characteristics that complete each other. Regarding them as means of conflict instead of accepting them as pieces that complete each other means to fight against nature.
 

hawkeyeblue

Senator (1k+ posts)
My friends koin ke maindak na bano...Islam like any other religion evolves. And the Quran does not forbid a woman leading prayer. If that is the case tell me and prove with an ayat. Yes I am a muslim. The first imam of a man is always a woman (his mother)!!!!

YOU PROVE IT TO ME QURAN FORBIDS DOG ? OR can you EAT it ?
 

ealtaf

Minister (2k+ posts)
My friends koin ke maindak na bano...Islam like any other religion evolves. And the Quran does not forbid a woman leading prayer. If that is the case tell me and prove with an ayat. Yes I am a muslim. The first imam of a man is always a woman (his mother)!!!!

o shut up.... nonsense...
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
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[TD="class: CSS0_Sel"]وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَٰتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَٰرِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا ۖ وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَىٰ جُيُوبِهِنَّ ۖ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ ءَابَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَآءِ بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِىٓ أَخَوَٰتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَآئِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰنُهُنَّ أَوِ ٱلتَّٰبِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُو۟لِى ٱلْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ ٱلرِّجَالِ أَوِ ٱلطِّفْلِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰ عَوْرَٰتِ ٱلنِّسَآءِ ۖ وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ ۚ وَتُوبُوٓا۟ إِلَى ٱللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {24:31**[/TD]
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[TD="class: CSS1"]And say thou unto the believing women that they shall lower their sights and guard their private parts and shall not disclose their adornment except that which appeareth thereof; and they shall draw their scarves over their bosoms; and shall not disclose their adornment except unto their husbands or their fathers or their husbands fathers or their sons or their husbands sons or their brothers or their brothers sons or their sisters sons or their Women or those whom their right hands own or male followers wanting in sex desire or children not acquainted with the privy parts of women; and they Shall not strike their feet so that there be known that which they hide of their adornment. And turn penitently unto Allah ye all, O ye believers, haply ye may thrive! [/TD]
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[TD="class: CSS2"]اور مومن عورتوں سے بھی کہہ دو کہ وہ بھی اپنی نگاہیں نیچی رکھا کریں اور اپنی شرم گاہوں کی حفاظت کیا کریں اور اپنی آرائش (یعنی زیور کے مقامات) کو ظاہر نہ ہونے دیا کریں مگر جو ان میں سے کھلا رہتا ہو۔ اور اپنے سینوں پر اوڑھنیاں اوڑھے رہا کریں اور اپنے خاوند اور باپ اور خسر اور بیٹیوں اور خاوند کے بیٹوں اور بھائیوں اور بھتیجیوں اور بھانجوں اور اپنی (ہی قسم کی) عورتوں اور لونڈی غلاموں کے سوا نیز ان خدام کے جو عورتوں کی خواہش نہ رکھیں یا ایسے لڑکوں کے جو عورتوں کے پردے کی چیزوں سے واقف نہ ہوں (غرض ان لوگوں کے سوا) کسی پر اپنی زینت (اور سنگار کے مقامات) کو ظاہر نہ ہونے دیں۔ اور اپنے پاؤں (ایسے طور سے زمین پر) نہ ماریں (کہ جھنکار کانوں میں پہنچے اور) ان کا پوشیدہ زیور معلوم ہوجائے۔ اور مومنو! سب خدا کے آگے توبہ کرو تاکہ فلاح پاؤ
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[TABLE="class: sura, align: center"]
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[TD="class: CSS0_Sel"]لَّا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِنَّ فِىٓ ءَابَآئِهِنَّ وَلَآ أَبْنَآئِهِنَّ وَلَآ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ وَلَآ أَبْنَآءِ إِخْوَٰنِهِنَّ وَلَآ أَبْنَآءِ أَخَوَٰتِهِنَّ وَلَا نِسَآئِهِنَّ وَلَا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰنُهُنَّ ۗ وَٱتَّقِينَ ٱللَّهَ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍۢ شَهِيدًا {33:55**[/TD]
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[TD="class: CSS1"]It is no sin for them in respect to their fathers or their brothers, or their brothers sons, or their sisters sons, or their own women, or those whom their right hands own; and fear Allah; verily Allah is of everything ever a Witness. [/TD]
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[TD="class: CSS2"]عورتوں پر اپنے باپوں سے (پردہ نہ کرنے میں) کچھ گناہ نہیں اور نہ اپنے بیٹوں سے اور نہ اپنے بھائیوں سے اور نہ اپنے بھتیجوں سے اور نہ اپنے بھانجوں سے نہ اپنی (قسم کی) عورتوں سے اور نہ لونڈیوں سے۔ اور (اے عورتو) خدا سے ڈرتی رہو۔ بےشک خدا ہر چیز سے واقف ہے
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This is FITNA no other word for this. How nice clapping during khutba. Is there any limit to stupidity? I gues not.

Dear brother, is it not strange that we accept every word of mullahs as if it is word of God? Islam is not based on mullahs but clear proofs as are found in the quran itself. We must follow what we can prove from the quran and quran based hadith not personalities regardless of what they base their saying on. Ulema are only those people who themselves follow proof as told in the divine book itself. How can anyone be claimed aalim if one is not following the quran?

We all know there are many make beliefs around in the name of islam which have resulted in many sects. All because we have not learned to look at the quran as a divine proof. This is why we think we cannot prove the quran word of God and we just take things for granted. The result is lots of confused people who all claim to be muslims but know little or nothing about quran.

It is time we learned the quran ourselves and discussed it in detail to help each other understand the divine message rather than jumping on each others throats. It is going to take time before all make beliefs disappear from the ummah but only if we start making the difference. If we shut our eyes for another thousand years when we wake up nothing would have changed for the better. Changing things need effort and action till results are achieved.

So if we want to remove our ignorance then we must get education and make consistent and persistent effort for it till we have it.

Our task is to ensure our men and women are upto the standard that is set for them by Allah.

We can only oppose things that can be proven anti islam or anti muslim in wider context of islam and humanity. It is crime in the eyes of Allah that we declare anything haraam for which we have no clear proof nor can we prove it.

We all know what is happening between shias and sunnies, deobandies and brelavies and wahabies and salafies etc etc eg regarding khatam, drood, charaave and nazro niaz etc. How big fight these things cause between these sects.

All this is result of mullahs trying to make us their slaves and we are just falling in their traps by shutting our minds and burying our heads in the sand.

Ummah is in terrible troubles and we are busy diverting our attention to silly issues and calling them fitna.

The real fitna is us having no sense of quran and islam at all. We have no idea what bigger picture of islam is and what are our foremost individual responsibilities regarding that.

Our men know little about islam never mind our women, so if anyone is making any effort to wake up people, we should not bring sectarian divide in to it through disputed sources like fiqh. Otherwise there is little chance of muslim unity.

Shias have their own fiqh and so have sunnies. Not only that but each sect within shias and within sunnies has its own fiqh so where are we going to draw a line?

Islam's main point is universal appeal not individuals' mazhabi masaail.

Let us let people do what they want to do in the name of islam unless we can clearly prove something is anti islam and anti muslim. That would be something worth fighting over.

regards and all the best.
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@Doctorplato if you are muslim then you should know basic teachings of Islam.
If you are not muslim then i pray for you " May Allah shows you right path".

Now to your question:

Unlike men, women should not give adhan or say the iqamah. Women are not allowed to call out the adhan whereas men are encouraged to do so.

Sayyidatuna Asmaa (Radi allahu ta’ala anha) narrates as part of a longer hadeeth that the Prophet ( صلى الله عايه وسالم ) said, 'There is no adhan iqamah or Jumuah upon women.'

[ Sunan Baihaqi hadith no 1921]

Jabir bin Abdullah (رضئ الله عنه ) reports as part of a longer hadeeth that the Prophet ( صلى الله عايه وسالم ) said, Know that a woman should not lead a man in salah.' ولا تؤمن امرأة رجلا

[ Sunan Ibn Majah 1081 and Sunan Baihaqi 5131.]

Strong Believe of Prophet Mohammad PBUH teaching is a strong must to be a muslim otherwise one is not.

Dear pkrevolution, these so called ahadith seem to contradict the quran because if you read quran slaah is for momineen whether men or women and jumaa is also for momineen.

The quran tells both men and women about slaah but nowhere it exempts them. So how can one exempt anyone on basis of hadith alone which seem to contradict the quran?

To me if you cannot explain this will be conspiracy of mullahs against islam and muslims.

regards and the best.
 

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