Please do Participate

[true_pakistani]

The 699th Urs Mubarak of Hazrat Data Gunj Buksh(rehmal Allah) going to be started from 3th Feb,2010.
I ve a request of the people of this plate form in Lahore plz do join especially participate in dua which is on thursday night n ask forgiveness of Allah Rehman o Rahim n Nisbat and mohabat of Hazrat Muhammad(sw) and all the followers.
I wish i wud ve been there to attend this precious moment of dua. I wish i cud increase my mohabat for Hazrat Data Gunj Buksh rehmat Allah

Rehmat Baras Rahi hai Muhammad(sw) kaa shar mein

 

[sarbakaf]

True pakistani bhai..........i am not very learned in religion can you please answer my few questions regarding this URS please.

Q-1- What does URS means and how is it connected to day of death of some one ?
( doesnt word URS mean "shaadi", that is why we use words Aroosi Jora , Aroosi
bistar , Shaab E Aroosi )

Q-2 - How many time Data ALi Hajveeri asked us to celebrate his URS ?

Q-3 - Why dont we celebrate URS of Sahaba , if URS is such an important day ?

Q-4 Where in islam it states taht such and such acts should be done on URS ?

Q-5 Did sahaba ever celebrated URS of each other or of any prophet ? if not why not , if yest then when .


Q-6 Please give me quranic references and references of aahadith in support of URS please.


you reply will help me improve my religious understanding ...........

Any other brother who knows answers can surely help us.....thankx

 

[dukelondon]

I wish I could attend. May Allah(SWT) bless all momineen who will be attending the Urs and listen to their prayers. Ameen.

 

[dukelondon]

@sarbakaf

AoA brother, could you please tell me how many things you do in your life that the Prophet, Sahaba and Imams didn't do? Is it necessary that we ONLY do exactly what they did and should not do anything else OR we should not do anything they didn't do. Examples are , using toothbrush instead of miswak, driving car instead of camel, using computer, listening to Quran on ipod, using guns in jihad instead of sword etc. The point is that religion does not work the way you are thinking. Allah(SWT) has told us the limits in the Quran which is a complete code of life. As long as we are within those limits, there is no harm. People today do many things that people 40 years back didn't use to. People in 2050 will be doing a lot of new things that we dont do. It is IMPOSSIBLE for any religion to mention every single thing you must do or must not do. Hence, the limits (Hudood) have been given to us in the Quran. As long as we are within these limits, there is no problem. If for some wayward reason, you are referring to Shirk committed by some people at Urs (Although I dont believe any such thing is done during Urs), then you cant stop Urs because of that. The reason is that Shirk can be done anywhere including home because Shirk is in a person's heart. So, its impossible to stop a person from doing Shirk if he wants to do it and we cant stop Urs because of that. If you ponder on this, the above should answer your questions.

 

[gazoomartian]

True pakistani bhai..........i am not very learned in religion can you please answer my few questions regarding this URS please.

Q-1- What does URS means and how is it connected to day of death of some one ?
( doesnt word URS mean "shaadi", that is why we use words Aroosi Jora , Aroosi
bistar , Shaab E Aroosi )

Q-2 - How many time Data ALi Hajveeri asked us to celebrate his URS ?

Q-3 - Why dont we celebrate URS of Sahaba , if URS is such an important day ?

Q-4 Where in islam it states taht such and such acts should be done on URS ?

Q-5 Did sahaba ever celebrated URS of each other or of any prophet ? if not why not , if yest then when .


Q-6 Please give me quranic references and references of aahadith in support of URS please.


you reply will help me improve my religious understanding ...........

Any other brother who knows answers can surely help us.....thankx

URS started in Indian Muslims centuries after the life of Sahaba's therefore there wouldnt be any reference in Quran and Ahadith

Also, there are so much diversities in any religion that its impossible to learn it all. If you do not believe in one act in islam (such as URS, banging on chest in Shia sect etc), then do not follow it. I do not believe in URS so I do not attend or follow but I dontquestion either. But in my early age, say 8,9,10 years, I used to attend just to eat food available in URS and also to congregate with other kids [pk flag]

 

[sarbakaf]

@dukelondon
brother.....
thanks for reply but u still have not managed to answer my question.
Miswak & tooth paste, Camels and cars , swords and guns etc etc....these modern things have some compariable stuff in the past.........but URS does that have any compariable act

You mentioned quran and the limits set in quran ....fair enough ? but you forgot to quote me any aaya or any hadith in favour of URS.....
you did not even quote me any explanation from any of our famous scholars not even from imam bukhari , abu hanifa , imam mohammad , ahmad bin hanbal , imam malik , etc ..etc..........

brother.........i will appreciate if you can answer my questions and help me in understanding what i can not seem to understand

jazakAllah

 

[mcx-ca]

sarbakaf:

You are absolutely right. Its very unfortunate that majority of muslim brothers particularly in India & Pakistan are suffering from SHIRK which is a gateway directly to HELLFIRE. They do SHIRK and follow BIDDAS and claim themselves enlighted muslims. They do not study Quran & Ahadis themselves, find foolish short-cuts to reach Jannah. God bless us all to show us and keep us on right path.

 

[arnold_mic]

Brothers & Sisters,
Just listen first 30 sec and try to understand what was Iqbal telling to Muslim.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlyiWkYIo6Y[/video]

 

[Pakistani1947]

I have personally witnessed people doing prostration to the grave of Ali Hajveri (Rehamatullah Alaih). Which is pure SHIRK. This is what Mushrakeen Mecca were doing at the time of Rasul-Allah (SAW). May Allah save muslims from these acts of SHIRKS (Aameen).

I came across following article while searching the net. I thought it might me interesting to the participants of the topic. The source is : http://www.tariqjamil.org/Forum/questio ... -urs/?wap2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AsSalam o alaikum wr wb brother..Firstly i want to say that in our country(pakistan)there are over then 70 % people are illiterate thay dont even know how to write their name. We all know the influence of hindus is still there on our people.....there are many activities going on in our country which are non islamic.In Pakistan people listen to Qawalies,celebrate Urs of sufis,go to Mizaars and are dying to paas through the "Bahishti Darwaza" But they dont know what Quran says...coz they dont know how to read Quran.They dont know what is hadees.,then how can they know what they are dong is right or wrong?

It is not permissible to prostrate on graves, rather that is a kind of idolatry and ignorance, and a sign of intellectual deviation and backwardness. It is not permissible for the visitor to those graves or anyone else to seek blessings from them by touching them, kissing them, clinging with any part of the body to them, or to seek healing from its dirt by rubbing ones hands or face with it or to take anything from them in order to dilute it with water and wash oneself with it. It is not permissible for visitors to the grave or others to bury any part of their hair or body or handkerchiefs in them, or to put their pictures or anything else that they may have with them in their soil in order to seek blessing (barakah). It is not permissible to throw money or any kind of food such as grains etc. on them. Whoever does any of these things has to repent, and not do it again. It is not permissible to perfume them, or to swear to Allaah by their occupants. It is not permissible to ask of Allaah by virtue of their occupants or their status, rather that is a haraam kind of beseeching Allaah and is one of the means that lead to shirk. It is not allowed to build up the graves or erect any structure over them, because this is a means of veneration that leads to shirk. It is not permissible to sell food or perfume etc to one who it is known will use them for such seriously wrong actions.

Seeking the help of the dead or asking them for support or calling upon them and asking them to meet needs and to help alleviates calamity and to bring benefits and ward off hardships are all forms of major shirk which put a person beyond the pale of Islam and make him a worshipper of idols, because no one can relieve a person of worries and distress except Allaah alone with no partner or associate. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All?Knower (of everything
[Faatir 35:13-14]

Say (O Muhammad): Call upon those besides Him whom you pretend [to be gods like angels, Eesa (Jesus), Uzayr (Ezra) and others]. They have neither the power to remove the adversity from you nor even to shift it from you to another person.'

Those whom they call upon [like Eesa (Jesus) ? son of Maryam (Mary), Uzayr (Ezra), angel and others] desire (for themselves) means of access to their Lord (Allaah), as to which of them should be the nearest; and they [Eesa (Jesus), Uzayr (Ezra), angels and others] hope for His Mercy and fear His Torment. Verily, the Torment of your Lord is (something) to be afraid of!"
[al-Isra 17:56-57]


It is not permitted to circumambulate these graves or any others, or to pray towards them or amongst them, or to perform acts of worship beside them such as reading Quraan, making duaa, etc, because these are means of associating others in worship with the Lord of all creation and taking them (graves) as places of worship , even if no Masjid is built over them. It was narrated that Aaishah and Abd-Allaah ibn Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: When death was approaching the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), he put a cloak over his face, and when he felt hot he removed it and said, May Allaahs curse be upon the Jews and Christians, for they took the graves of their Prophets as places of worship warning against doing what they did. Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 436; Muslim, 529.

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: The most evil of people are those upon whom the Hour will come when they are still alive and those who take graves as places of worship." Narrated by Ahmad, 1/405. It is also narrated by al-Bukhaari in a muallaq report in Kitaab al-Fitan, Baab Zuhoor al-Fitan, 7067. Also narrated by Muslim in Kitaab al-Fitan.

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 426: Sahih Bukhari
Narrated 'Aisha:
Um Salama told Allah's Apostle about a church which she had seen in Ethiopia and which was called Mariya. She told him about the pictures which she had seen in it. Allah's Apostle said, "If any righteous pious man dies amongst them, they would build a place of worship at his grave and make these pictures in it; they are the worst creatures in the sight of Allah."

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 428: sahih bukhari
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "May Allah's curse be on the Jews for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets."


secondly: any of these things which are intended as rituals or acts of worship aimed at drawing closer to Allaah or glorifying Him in order to earn reward, or which involve imitating the people of Jaahiliyyah or any other groups of kaafirs, is a prohibited bidah, an innovation which comes under the general meaning of the hadeeth: Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (Islam) that is not part of it, will have it rejected." (Narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim).

Jabir b. Abdullah said: When Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) delivered the sermon, his eyes became red, his voice rose. and his anger increased so that he was like one giving a warning against the enemy and saying:" The enemy has made a morning attack on you and in the evening too." He would also say:" The last Hour and I have been sent like these two." and he would join his forefinger and middle finger; and would further say:" The best of the speech is embodied in the Book of Allah, and the beet of the guidance is the guidance given by Muhammad. And the most evil affairs are their innovations; and every innovation is error." He would further say:, I am more dear to a Muslim even than his self; and he who left behind property that is for his family. and he who dies under debt or leaves children (in helplessness). the responsibility (of paying his debt and bringing up his children) lies on me."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 4: Number 1885.
----------------------------
Ibrahim al-Taimi reported on the authority of his father: 'Ali b. Abi Talib (Allah be pleased with him) addressed us and said: He who thought that we have besides the Holy Qur'an anything else that we recite, he told a lie. And this document which is hanging by the sheath of the sword contains but the ages of the camels, and the nature of the wounds. He (Hadrat 'Ali) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: Medina is sacred from 'Air to Thaur; So if anyone makes an innovation or accommodates an innovator, the curse of Allah, the angels, and all persons will fall upon him, and Allah will not accept any obligatory or supererogatory act as recompense from them. And the protection granted by the Muslims is one and must be respected by the humblest of them. If anyone makes a false claim to paternity, or being a client of other than his own masters, there is upon him the curse of Allah, the angels, and all the people. Allah will not accept from him any recompense in the form of obligatory acts or supererogatory acts. The hadith transmitted on the authority of Abu Bakr and Zabair ends with (these words): The humblest among them should respect it; and what follows after it is not mentioned there, and in the hadith transmitted by them (these words are) not found: (The document was hanging) on the sheath of his sword.
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 7:Number 3163.
------------------------------------
SUNAN ABU-DAWUD: Book 39, Number 4515:
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: Qays ibn Abbad and Ashtar went to Ali and said to him: Did the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) give you any instruction about anything for which he did not give any instruction to the people in general? He said: No, except what is contained in this document of mine. Musaddad said: He then took out a document. Ahmad said: A document from the sheath of his sword. It contained: The lives of all Muslims are equal; they are one hand against others; the lowliest of them can guarantee their protection. Beware, a Muslim must not be killed for an infidel, nor must one who has been given a covenant be killed while his covenant holds. If anyone introduces an innovation, he will be responsible for it. If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people. Musaddad said: Ibn AbuUrubah's version has: He took out a document.

------------------------


Detailed discussion of bidah and shirk

This question involves two issues, bidah (innovation) and shirk (polytheism, association of others with Allaah).

A. Bidah.

This issue may be divided into three topics:

1. Definition of bidah 2. Categories of bidah
3. Rulings on one who commits bidah does that make him a kaafir or not?

1. Definition of bidah.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: According to shareeah, the definition is Worshipping Allaah in ways that Allaah has not prescribed.' If you wish you may say, Worshipping Allaah in ways that are not those of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly guided successors (al-khulafaa al-raashidoon).'"

The first definition is taken from the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not ordained?" [al-Shooraa 42:21]

The second definition is taken from the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said:

I urge you to adhere to my way (Sunnah) and the way of the rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa al-raashidoon) who come after me. Hold fast to it and bite onto it with your eyeteeth [i.e., cling firmly to it], and beware of newly-invented matters."

So everyone who worships Allaah in a manner that Allaah has not prescribed or in a manner that is not in accordance with the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa al-raashidoon), is an innovator, whether that innovated worship has to do with the names and attributes of Allaah, or to do with His rulings and laws.

With regard to ordinary matters of habit and custom, these are not called bidah (innovation) in Islam, even though they may be described as such in linguistic terms. But they are not innovations in the religious sense, and these are not the things that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was warning us against.

And there is no such thing in Islam as bidah hasanah (good innovation)."

(Majmoo Fataawa Ibn Uthaymeen, vol. 2, p. 291)

2. Categories of bidah

Bidah may be divided into two categories:

(i) bidah which constitutes kufr

(ii) bidah which does not constitute kufr

If you ask, what is the definition of bidah which constitutes kufr and that which does not constitute kufr?

The answer is:

Shaykh Haafiz al-Hukami (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The kind of bidah which constitutes kufr is when one denies a matter on which there is scholarly consensus, which widely-known, and which no Muslim can have any excuse for not knowing, such as denying something that is obligatory, making something obligatory that is not obligatory, or making something haraam halaal, or making something halaal haraam; or believing some notion about Allaah, His Messenger and His Book when they are far above that, whether in terms of denial of affirmation because that means disbelieving in the Quraan and in the message with which Allaah sent His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Examples include the bidah of the Jahamiyyah, who denied the attributes of Allaah; or the notion that the Quraan was created; or the notion that some of the attributes of Allaah were created; or the bidah of the Qadariyyah who denied the knowledge and actions of Allaah; or the bidah of the Mujassimah who likened Allaah to His creation etc.

The second category, bidah which does not constitute kufr, is defined as that which does not imply rejection of the Quraan or of anything with which Allaah sent His Messengers.

Examples include the Marwaani bidahs (which were denounced by the greatest Sahaabah who did not approve of them, although they did not denounce them as kaafirs or refuse to give them bayah because of that), such as delaying some of the prayers until the end of the due times, doing the Eid khutbah before the Eid prayer, delivering the khutbah whilst sitting down on Fridays, etc.

(Maaarij al-Qubool, 2/503-504)

3- The ruling on one who commits bidah is he regarded as a kaafir or not?

The answer is that it depends.

If the bidah constitutes kufr, then the person is one of the following two types:

(i) Either it is known that his intention is to destroy the foundations of Islam and make the Muslims doubt it. Such a person is definitely a kaafir; indeed, he is a stranger to Islam and is one of the enemies of the faith.

(ii) Or he is deceived and confused; he cannot be denounced as a kaafir until proof is established against him, fair and square.

If the bidah does not constitute kufr, then he should not be denounced as a kaafir. Rather, he remains a Muslim, but he has done a gravely evil action.

If you ask, how should we deal with those who commit bidah?

The answer is:

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: In both cases, we have to call these people who claim to be Muslim but who commit acts of bidah which may constitute kufr or may be less than that to the truth, by explaining the truth without being hostile or condemning what they are doing. But once we know that they are too arrogant to accept the truth for Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning), And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge.' [al-Anaam 6:108] if we find out that they are stubborn and arrogant, then we should point out their falsehood, because then pointing out their falsehood becomes an obligation upon us.

With regard to boycotting them, that depends upon the bidah. If it is a bidah which constitutes kufr, then it is obligatory to boycott the person who does it. If it is of a lesser degree than that, then it is essential to examine the situation further. If something may be achieved by boycotting the person, then we do it; if no purpose will be served by it, or if it will only make him more disobedient and arrogant, then we should avoid doing that, because whatever serves no purpose, it is better not to do it. And also in principle it is haraam to boycott a believer, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: It is not permissible for a man to forsake [not speak to] his brother for more than three [days].'"

(Adapted from Majmoo Fataawa Ibn Uthaymeen, vol. 2, p. 293)

B. Shirk, its types and the definition of each

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Uthaymeen said:

Shirk is of two types, major shirk which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, and lesser shirk."

The first type, major shirk, is Every type of shirk which the Lawgiver described as such and which puts a person beyond the pale of his religion such as devoting any kind of act of worship which should be for Allaah to someone other than Allaah, such as praying to anyone other than Allaah, fasting for anyone other than Allaah or offering a sacrifice to anyone other than Allaah. It is also a form of major shirk to offer supplication (duaa) to anyone other than Allaah, such as calling upon the occupant of a grave or calling upon one who is absent to help one in some way in which no one is able to help except Allaah.

The second type is minor shirk, which means every kind of speech or action that Islam describes as shirk, but it does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam such as swearing an oath by something other than Allaah, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said that whoever swears an oath by something other than Allaah is guilty of kufr or shirk."

The one who swears an oath by something other than Allaah but does not believe that anyone other than Allaah has the same greatness as Allah, is a mushrik who is guilty of lesser shirk, regardless of whether the one by whom he swore is venerated by people or not. It is not permissible to swear by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), or by the president, or by the Kabah, or by Jibreel, because this is shirk, but it is minor shirk which does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam.

Another type of minor shirk is showing off, which means that a person does something so that people will see it, not for the sake of Allaah.

The ways in which showing off may cancel out acts of worship are either of the following:

The first is when it is applies to an act of worship from the outset, i.e., the person is not doing that action for any reason other than showing off. In this case, the action is invalid and is rejected, because of the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah which was attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which says that Allaah said, I am so self-sufficient that I am in no need of having an associate. Thus he who does an action for someone elses sake as well as Mine will have that action renounced by Me to him whom he associated with Me."

(Narrated by Muslim, Kitaab al-Zuhd, no. 2985)

The second is when the showing off happens later on during the act of worship, i.e., the action is originally for Allaah, then showing off creeps into it. This may be one of two cases:

The first is when the person resists it this does not harm him.

For example, a man has prayed a rakah, then some people come along during his second rakah and it occurs to him to make the rukoo or sujood longer, or makes himself weep, and so on. If he resists that, it does not harm him, because he is striving against this idea. But if he goes along with that, then every action which stemmed from showing off is invalid, such as if he made his standing or prostration long, or he made himself weep all of those actions will be cancelled out. But does this invalidation extend to the entire act of worship or not?

We say that either of the following must apply:

Either the end of his act of worship was connected to the beginning (with no pause); so if the end of it is invalidated then all of it is invalidated.

This is the case with the prayer the last part of it cannot be invalidated without the first part also being invalidated, so the whole prayer is invalid.

Or if the beginning of the action is separate from the end of it, then the first part is valid but the latter part is not. Whatever came before the showing off is valid, and what came after it is not valid.

An example of that is a man who has a hundred riyals, and gives fifty of them in charity for the sake of Allaah with a sound intention, then he gives fifty in charity for the purpose of showing off. The first fifty are accepted, and the second fifty are not accepted, because the latter is separate from the former."

Majmoo Fataawa wa Rasaail Ibn Uthaymeen, and al-Qawl al-Mufeed Sharh Kitaab al-Tawheed, vol. 1, p. 114, 1st edition
By: Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

zanjabeel:
Celebrations commemorating some of the scholars .

What is the ruling on celebrations held in commemoration of one hundred days or forty days since the death of one of the scholars?

Praise be to Allaah.
Among the innovated matters that have appeared in some Muslim societies are celebrations to commemorate some of the dead, especially the scholars. These celebrations take place on the anniversary of the death of the person who is being commemorated, and they may take place a year or more after his death.

These celebrations vary from one person to another. If he was one of the common people or one of those who was thought to have knowledge even though he was ignorant, on the fortieth day after his death, his family commemorate his death, calling it al-arbaeen (forty). They bring people together in a special tent or in the house of the deceased, and they bring Quraan-readers to recite Quraan, and they prepare a meal like a wedding feast, and they adorn the place with lights and comfortable furnishings. They go to great expense, and their purpose in doing this is to show off. No doubt this is haraam, because it involves wasting the money of the deceased for no legitimate purpose. It beings no benefit to the deceased himself and results in loss for his family. This is the case if there is no one among the heirs who is too young to be in charge of the money, so what do you think if there is someone like that among them! They may even finance that by means of a loan which involves riba (interest) we seek refuge with Allaah from His Wrath. (al-Ibdaa, p. 228)

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: One of the things that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught was to offer condolences to the family of the bereaved, but it is not part of his teachings to gather together to mourn and read Quraan for him (the deceased), whether that is at the grave or elsewhere. All of that is bidah and a reprehensible innovation." (Zaad al-Maaad, 1/527)

Ali Mahfooz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: What people do nowadays of offering food to the people who come to offer their condolences, and going to great expense on the nights of mourning, and subsequent occasions such as Friday nights and the forty-day anniversary of the death (al-arbaeen), all of that is reprehensible bidah which goes against the practice of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the righteous salaf after him." (al-Ibdaa, p. 230).

This celebration or commemoration is an innovation and a bidah, which was not narrated from the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or from his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) or the righteous salaf (may Allaah have mercy on them). The Sunnah in this case is to make food for the family of the deceased and to send it to them, not for them to have to make food and invite people to come and eat it. When news of the death of Jafar ibn Abi Taalib (may Allaah be pleased with him) came, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, Make food for the family of Jafar, because there has come to them that which will preoccupy them." (Narrated by Ahmad in his Musnad, 1/205. Also narrated by Abu Dawood in his Sunan, 3/497, Kitaab al-Janaaiz, hadeeth no. 3132. Also narrated by al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, 2/234, Abwaab al-Janaaiz, hadeeth no. 1003; he said it is a hasan hadeeth. Also narrated by Ibn Maajah in his Sunan, 1/514, Kitaab al-Janaaiz, hadeeth no 1610. Also narrated by al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak, 1/372, Kitaab al-Janaaiz; he said, it is a hadeeth whose isnaad is saheeh although they (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) did not narrate it, and al-Dhahabi agreed with him in his Talkhees).

Jareer ibn Abd-Allaah al-Bajali said: We used to consider gathering with the family of the deceased and making food to be a form of wailing." (Narrated by Ibn Maajah in his Sunan, 1/514, Kitaab al-Janaaiz, hadeeth no. 1612. Al-Busayri said in Zawaaid Ibn Maajah (2/35): This is a saheeh isnaad; the men of the first isnaad are according to the conditions of al-Bukhaari, and the men of the second isnaad are according to the conditions of Muslim.")

But if the person whose death is being commemorated was one of the scholars, on the anniversary of his death, one or two years later, then they hold special celebrations. A group of researchers agree to write about his life and character, or his method of writing, and everything that has to do with him, then they present that research on that day, and publish his books, or the most important and most famous of them, and they are distributed in the marketplaces to keep his memory alive, or so they say, and to make known the efforts he made to spread and publish knowledge and so on.

If he was a king, ruler or president, this occasion is celebrated and the most senior of those who are present speak of his legacy and work in government, and some books about him may be published on this occasion. Some people may go to his grave and recite wird over it, or recite al-Faatihah for his soul, All of that is bidah for which Allaah has not revealed any authority.

There is nothing inherently wrong with publishing the books of a scholar, or writing his biography or writing about his methodology, or printing his books. These things should be done if he deserves that. But that should not be done specifically at a certain time, or be accompanied by celebrations, festivals and speeches etc. The same applies to kings and rulers.

Celebrations held to commemorate the death of scholars, rulers and some common folk are an innovation, and that is sufficient to condemn them.

There was no one who had more knowledge than the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and there was no one whose way of calling others to Islam was better. No one had a nobler status or a higher rank than he did (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), for he is the best of all creation. But despite that the Sahaabah did not commemorate his death, even though no person has ever been more dearly loved than the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was loved by the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) or the Taabieen or the righteous salaf (may Allaah have mercy on them). If there had been any good in doing so, they would have done it before us.

Respecting the scholars is not done by holding celebrations in their memory; it is done by striving to benefit from the things they have written, by publishing and reading and commenting etc.

This applies if they are deserving of that, by virtue of their having lived according to the way of the righteous salaf, and kept away from the way of the deviant sects or the influence of the west, etc.

The memory and narrations of the scholars of the righteous salaf and those who came after them, and the knowledge that they presented to the people, have been preserved. The scholar may have died and departed from this world, but his knowledge remains and is passed down by the people from one generation to the next.

Because of the benefit that people gain from their knowledge, they pray for mercy for them and pray that they may be rewarded. This is the greatest way in which their memory can be kept alive.

But organizing celebrations in their memory, or seeking blessing by visiting the places where they lived and taught, and their relics, or circumambulating their graves all of that is bidah, some of which may even reach the degree of shirk. We seek refuge with Allaah from that.

If these scholars, whose memories are celebrated and from whom people seek blessing by visiting the places where they lived and taught, were alive, they would denounce these things that are being done.

But some people have been misled by their own whims and desires and by the Shaytaan, and by those who advocate bidah for worldly purposes or to gain leadership over the people. So they have slipped in the maze of bidah from which there is no escape apart from returning to the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and adhering to them, and to that on which the scholars of this ummah are agreed, and giving up all newly-invented innovations which are evil in and of themselves and which lead to even greater evils and disasters.

We ask Allaah to guide us and them to the Straight Path, the path of those with whom Allaah is pleased, the Prophets, the Siddeeqeen, the martyrs and the righteous. May He keep us far away from the path of those with whom He is angry and those who have gone astray, for He is Able to do all things.
Al-Bida al-Hawliyyah li Shaykh Abd-Allaah ibn Abd al-Azeez ibn Ahmad al-Tuwayjri, p. 350

 

[true_pakistani]

Bro sab

I ll definitely first tel me wt school of thought u r

R u deobandi, wahabi, or wt

it is completely disgraceful wen u comments on it

Just a simple eg which i quote to u

Taraveeh was initated By Hazrat Umar Farooq Azam(rehmat ulla)........it is not in islam or forced for jamat

wt u say.....is it bidah............bcoz it was not ordered by Hazrat Muhammad(sw)

n for others who r deobandi and wahabi n etc, plz think before u comment . If u dont believe its alright but dont not pass ur comments as bidah or otherthings

u may ask question but dont taunt to those who are Salaheen n beloved of Allah otherwise its very easy to ans u that wahabi or deobandi etc are kafirs???

I agree on one thing the spirit has almost gone but dear brothers there are still people who know the spirit

n one question

If Allah prohibts u dont call Martyred .......as a dead

then how the beloved of Allah are dead!!!!!

 

[Raaz]

True pakistani bhai..........i am not very learned in religion can you please answer my few questions regarding this URS please.

Q-1- What does URS means and how is it connected to day of death of some one ?
( doesnt word URS mean "shaadi", that is why we use words Aroosi Jora , Aroosi
bistar , Shaab E Aroosi )

Q-2 - How many time Data ALi Hajveeri asked us to celebrate his URS ?

Q-3 - Why dont we celebrate URS of Sahaba , if URS is such an important day ?

Q-4 Where in islam it states taht such and such acts should be done on URS ?

Q-5 Did sahaba ever celebrated URS of each other or of any prophet ? if not why not , if yest then when .


Q-6 Please give me quranic references and references of aahadith in support of URS please.


you reply will help me improve my religious understanding ...........

Any other brother who knows answers can surely help us.....thankx

I agree with you....
I does not mean that we do not love Hazarat Ali Hajwari or any other Aulia Allah.
They are asset and Followers and wasris of rasool allah (pbh)
But the way we are spending our energy and money is not recommended.
This time and money should be for needy people and solving their problems.
This is difference in times before and after Islam.
Before Islam people used to celebrate their gods events and spent money like we are doing now and hoping better results.

If celebrating Urs is OK then Our Piary prophet(PBUH) was must celebrating the Urs of Hazarat Ibrahim.
But he used this sense in our daily most recommended prayer called Darood Sharif.
I think we can ask dua for our Bazurgan e din with Darood Sharif at this time of URS.

 

[true_pakistani]

Bro raaz

this is point u may discuss

but tel me if u luv someone n u spent some money then its haram or halal

if u come to my home i spent some money in true spirit of ur luv n respect then
then brother, if i suppose spend some money n invite the people n they eat out of it then wts wrong in it.
yes we shud also spent money on the needy people .....i completely agree
but brother same thing if u spent money on ur family n they dont deserve (mean ve already enough wealth) then.....

n the person who talk abt Tariq jamil ....i know he is deobandi...n if u go to their markaz every thursday they spent lot of money on foods n that food is eaten by the people gathered there......then wt u say.....????
i m still w8ng the ans of @sab ...is he deobandi or wahabi
But sorry to say, i chose very selective words for the thread otherwise in my first mail i may write down lot of things
i said go n attend the dua................might be that time Allah Rehman o Rahim gives u forgiveness bcoz of the Nisbat of those salaheen..........
If these deobandi wahabi think they dont need nisbat n they already got enoght Naaik Amaal .......then stil i pray May Allah forgive them n give them success

 

[abbasiali]

Most respected Brothers,

Its more important in our life to accept change, I have read different point of views, and I am not here to certify any one or issue fatwa to any one for their believes,

After spending a long period away from Pakistan, I realize, what blunder mistakes I was committing towards myself and my family,

If any one who try to bring up some clarification or would like to try to help in understanding real life of our religion Islam. its very important first to listen and then try to understand.

Now let me clarify, before owning something, we must make sure that we should first implement those realities on our self and then go out to our brothers and sisters for Tableegh or Dawah.

Its real unfortunate that I am not practicing Muslim, and that is the worst fact of my life, may be I appreciate the right practice, but was scared to adopt or implement on myself, because this implementation needs sacrifice, and may be still I am not ready for that stage,

Now would it change something, if I will call my self Sulfi, or Wahabi, or Deobundi, or Barelvi.

in every cast we have to decide what is "SHIRK" and by all means we have to save ourself from Shirk.

Don't answer any one please, but try to think, religion cannot be compare with so called high tech age, Quran has specified maximum of new inventions at its time of "Nazoul" so if someone ask, what was happening in past and whats going to happen in future, and are we implementing on us or not, this does not relate to Quran, Quran, Hadeeth, Sunnah, nothing could be matched with anything,

One my brother asked so many questions, he is very right and the message, which he was trying to convey was not taken on its real life.

Hazrat Data Gung Bux, definitely would be a real practicing Muslim, who would had spent his life preeching Islam, and I am sure no one could bring any one single evidence that any of Saint (including him) had asked any of Muslim to celebrate "URS" for him. message is very clear, None of them have asked such kind of acts in their behalf after their departure. So why we are doing something, which actually they have not taught to us.

 

[true_pakistani]

@Abbas
Dear Brother:
I m surprise one way u r trying to be neutral n honest n otherway u r defending deobandi n wahabis
Ans to ur Q .......tel me y do u celeberate party or birthday..........is it in islam or permitted or prohibited???
Did any saint or Salaheen told u to do shirk .......do u think by going to their Shrines u commit shir?
By offereing fatiha there, salat or Salam or Darood u commit shirk?
Asking Allah`s blessings n Rehmat by giving their WASILA u commit shirk??
By getting Faiz u committ shirk??
i m 100% agree if there is any shirk i ll be standing with u but i request u to tel me where i induced the people to commit shirk in my thread??
Y we go to Kabirstan n say AOA YA AHLE KABOOR...............if they dead then y we say YA.........ya mean joo sun saktaa hoo ya feel kar sakta hoo
I cud t underst y these deobandis n wahabis ve got the prb with urs if some one arrange social gathering in the rememberance of any beloved or respected person then wts wrong. Look as i mentioned u might ve difference school of thoughts but dont make it controversial ......if u ve given any license or authority by the Allah Rehman o Rahim ....then i m honestly ready to listen u to declare me kafir
I feel immense shame wen being a part of management rather u say these deobandis n wahabis to shut their mouths n dont make it controversial u ve become the part of it.
Anyone cud ve a prb with word URS but dont criticise n respect the Nisbat of any muslim.
Tel me how many school of thoughts were prevailing before 1857 jang azadi, bcoz these culprits people were created by Angraaz n these deobandi etc opposed Pakistan n Quaid
n these r also brutual Taliban
U said u r live abroad, i admits these deobandis etc ve got strong network abroad n easily change the mind .
In the last, there is no compromise on these shits by deobandi n wahabis, if they dont agree then better way to dont go there n beg Allah `s Rehmat.
Plz read my replies before gving me ans.
@arnold_mic n others, for ur kind information IQBAL was a big followers and believer of Hazrat Data Gunj Buksh Rehmat Allah

 

[abbasiali]

@Abbas
Dear Brother:
I m surprise one way u r trying to be neutral n honest n otherway u r defending deobandi n wahabis
Ans to ur Q .......tel me y do u celeberate party or birthday..........is it in islam or permitted or prohibited???
Did any saint or Salaheen told u to do shirk .......do u think by going to their Shrines u commit shir?
By offereing fatiha there, salat or Salam or Darood u commit shirk?
Asking Allah`s blessings n Rehmat by giving their WASILA u commit shirk??
By getting Faiz u committ shirk??
i m 100% agree if there is any shirk i ll be standing with u but i request u to tel me where i induced the people to commit shirk in my thread??
Y we go to Kabirstan n say AOA YA AHLE KABOOR...............if they dead then y we say YA.........ya mean joo sun saktaa hoo ya feel kar sakta hoo
I cud t underst y these deobandis n wahabis ve got the prb with urs if some one arrange social gathering in the rememberance of any beloved or respected person then wts wrong. Look as i mentioned u might ve difference school of thoughts but dont make it controversial ......if u ve given any license or authority by the Allah Rehman o Rahim ....then i m honestly ready to listen u to declare me kafir
I feel immense shame wen being a part of management rather u say these deobandis n wahabis to shut their mouths n dont make it controversial u ve become the part of it.
Anyone cud ve a prb with word URS but dont criticise n respect the Nisbat of any muslim.
Tel me how many school of thoughts were prevailing before 1857 jang azadi, bcoz these culprits people were created by Angraaz n these deobandi etc opposed Pakistan n Quaid
n these r also brutual Taliban
U said u r live abroad, i admits these deobandis etc ve got strong network abroad n easily change the mind .
In the last, there is no compromise on these shits by deobandi n wahabis, if they dont agree then better way to dont go there n beg Allah `s Rehmat.
Plz read my replies before gving me ans.
@arnold_mic n others, for ur kind information IQBAL was a big followers and believer of Hazrat Data Gunj Buksh Rehmat Allah

Bro
I know, it makes feel very much one way, but again, the truth is, some thing which is not permitted in Islam, that has to be followed in its real life, For me there is no Deobandi or Wahabi or etc. We will not go in this debate, because for me its very difficult to loose any of my loving friend like you. But still I insist, there is a lot out there, all we have to do is, to grab it. You are very right Birthday concept is not existing in Islam and so don't I follow this as well, but some how, our own weakness is very much in front of us, which hurdles to accept the truth, or make it impossible to give up practice of our ancestors.

 

[true_pakistani]

@ abbas

I m honour of ur freindship my point is not to confront or declare someone wahabi or deobandi etc i do ve a good friends out of them
But u din ans of the question i asked abt shirk in my last reply
look we may ve a good healthy discussion just to increase the knowledge or underst other school of thoughts as well
one thing really hurt me some people bluntly criticised of gng to URS........this is painful when even u defended them.
U raise ur points fair enough but u din warn them abt their rubbish remarks
These people pointed out Junaid jamshaid........who is deobandi
they mention Allama iqbal n interestingly they dont know he is big follower of Hazrat Gunj buksh rehmat ullah
I share one very interesting fact of my life..............my religious teachers were wahabi who taught me namaz , Quran
i ve immense respect regard that i may ready to die for their dignity. I know very well abt tariq jamil, dr israr ahmed etc but i never critiise i listen their videos n pick good things
like if any non muslim say me dont lie..........its good thing i ll listen bcoz i ve a patient to listen n repect others
But no compromise on respect of Salaheen plz
thnx

 

[barshad]

Please watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rXX9plWDX0

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear True_Pakistani,

Tariq Jamil is trying to convince Muslims with reference of Qura'an and Hadeeth that listening to Qawalies,celebrate Urs of sufis,going to Mizaars and dying to pass through the "Bahishti Darwaza" may involve somebody committing SHIRK, which is the worst sin of all sins.

So if Tariq Jamil is Deobandi, you will not even read his arguments with reference to Qura'an and Hadeeth. Is he referring from a different Qura'an or Hadeeth???. One should response logical if he or she has different opinion. Let us know if you have any reference in Qura'n and Hadeeth to support these Jahilana acts of Qawalies, celebrate Urs of sufis, going to Mizaars and passing through the "Bahishti Darwaza".

May Allah give "Hidaya" to all muslims (Aameen).

One more last point. Abu Bakur (Riziallah Taalah unhon), Umer (Riziallah Taalah unhon), Usman (Riziallah Taalah unhon), Ali (Riziallah Taalah unhon) and the Sahabah Karam did not believe in above mentioned SHIRKIA acts. Were they Deobandi???

 

[shahqais]

My dear brother "true_pakistani". You said Taraweeh was introduced by Umar ibn al-Khattaab

It is proven in al-Saheehayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led his companions in prayer (Taraweeh) for several nights, then on the third or fourth night he did not come out to them. When morning came he said: Nothing prevented me from coming out to you except the fact that I feared that it would be made obligatory (Fardh) for you.

This indicates that praying qiyaam in Ramadaan is one of the Sunnahs of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and is recommended and encouraged. It was not introduced by Umar ibn al-Khattaab, rather he revived something that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) loved and approved of.

Secondly question is not the URS. Its what happens at the URS and not every one is involved in whatsoever happens there.You may not be the one who does the shirks but that doesn't mean action mentioned above ( by other forum members ) are not done at URS.

Going to graves/shrines of Saints is not bad. Saying fatiha is very good but asking Saints to fulfill wishes is Shirk, now you may not be involved in that and you might have never done it that doesn't mean it never happens there.

Men and women dancing on the URS you have seen the video that I posted in other thread. The video might not be of URS but its definitely of a shrine. The Event or Occasion is not in question but the actions are in question.

No one would like that after their death people come with dhol and all music to their grave and dance there ( at least I won't ).

may Allah save us all from shirk and bless us and show us the right path. Ameen
I hope this answer you questions.

 

[true_pakistani]

Bro

this is bette way to discuss the things

i told u the thing in video is un reasonable, but tel me do u ve a power or authority to declare them kafir or Shirk
y u dont look around how much shirk u commit
and for ur kind information
Jamat was first and only organised by the Hazrat Umar(rz)

n i asked few questions

when these deobandi jamat wasestalished ////right after jang azzaadi by the Angraaz

if u r follower of wahabi...........y the saudi people give BOOSA by kneeing down to Saudi king

dont spread hate, n division ..................n u din give ans of my question i asked.
Askin of Saint.................is something else........
I go there ask their nisbat, their dua , their Nazar so Y Allah listen to me bcoz of their wasila
y u ask ur parents , bcoz they r wasila.............n we dont equal them with Allah, every thing is done by Allah
i m trying to search an Ayat , in which Allah Rahmen o Rahim said.......
App(sw) kah deejia un koo kaa jaab yaa apni janoo per zulm kar baaitha tu aap kii bargah mein aii jaia, aur phir mein un koo maaf kar doo ga ya kar sakta hoo, aghar aap be phir un ki safarish karein
I say sry in adv in any words stated wrongly bcoz this is just the transaltion