Saudi Scholar Exposes The False Hadith Culture That Is Corrupting Islam

[Citizen X]

As a revelation that is self-explaining, fully detailed, complete, and with lessons easy-to-learn the Quran should be, according to the Quran itself, the only authority of Islam.
As the Quran itself claims, the Quran explains itself:

11:1 Alif-Lãm-Ra. ˹This is˺a Book whose verses are well perfected and then fully explained. ˹It is˺ from the One ˹Who is˺ All-Wise, All-Aware.

75:19 Then it is surely upon Us to make it clear ˹to you˺.

What is fascinating about the Quran is of a particular topic or account is contained in several related verses that are usually not in one place but scattered throughout the Book. Often one verse is associated with another in such a way that one supplement, explains, clarifies, or throws more light on another. Thus, according to the Quran’s own assertion, the Quran is not only the best hadith (ahsana alhadeethi 39:23) but it is also the best interpreter of itself (ahsana tafseeran 25:33) as it goes on its way clarifying its own messages.

17:41 And We have detailed things in this Quran in various ways so that they may receive admonition, yet it has only added to their aversion.

Follow what has been revealed to you from your Sustainer: there is no god but He, and turn away from those who set up associates. 6:106

And this is a blessed Scripture that We have sent down, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy. 6:155

Follow what has been sent down to you all from your Sustainer, and follow no masters other than Him. Little do you remember! 7:3

When Our clear messages are recited to them, those who wish not to meet Us say, “Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!” Say, “It is not for me to change it on my own, I only follow what is revealed to me.” 10:15

Yaar koi faida nahi. Hadith always reigns supreme. Quran will only be accepted if and when it goes according to hadith.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You know what is even simpler than that is the fact that NO SUCH COPY EXISTS which is said to have been compiled by Muhammad (SAW) in his lifetime.

Though, the Prophet (SAW's) letters to different kings exist, with his "seal" on them. But no copy of Quran bears his seal as a gesture of his approval.

Yes, there is no such copy that exists which is said to be compiled by the Prophet Mohammad in his lifetime. Let me ask you a simple question, Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?
If you are a Muslim, what inspired you to be a Muslim? And if you are a Muslim are you a Shia or a Sunni?

Now rather than trying to construe everything with your half-witted head, try to search about it and explain things on the rationales supported with evidence. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

I have asked a commonsense question for those who could use their logic and rationale but, people like you who look at things through the lens of ahadith can not comprehend the basic things and just come up with nonsensical questions.

The oldest manuscript of Quran that exists today is the one lying in Birmingham. It has been carbon dated and it is found that even that manuscript was written after 5 years of Prophet (SAW's) death. However, even that copy of Quran is not free of errors. The other oldest copy is the Sanaa manuscript, on which the Germans are doing a research from under the project Corpus Coranicum. It also dates after Muhammad (SAW) passed away.

Citizen X has cleared it for you but, if you still have a problem then answer my question above.

I usually try to ignore your arguments as they are devoid of any knowledge but are obtrusively imbibed with the churnings of your own presumptions. So, next time, if you want me to engage in a fruitful discussion with you, then first try to infill your arguments with the critical mass of knowledge to make sense.

I always try to ignore your argument as they are based on illogical and nonsensical replies. Last time you ran away when I asked you to give me the detailed method of how to perform namaz.
Take my advice, if you want to engage with me again, try to come up with a rationale and logical replies based on the book of Allah, not Mullah. I do not like to indulge with a person whose Islam is based on fabricated, fake, and full of contradictory books.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Yaar koi faida nahi. Hadith always reigns supreme. Quran will only be accepted if and when it goes according to hadith.

All we can do is counter their arguments based on the verses of the Quran.
The rest is up to these blind followers is whether they want to resort to the book of Allah or Mulah.

 

[Citizen X]

All we can do is counter their arguments based on the verses of the Quran.
The rest is up to these blind followers is whether they want to resort to the book of Allah or Mulah.

True.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

LOL, you sound annoyed! Happens when you get just can't make any headway. Like predicted such a huge lot of verbal gymnastics trying prove your hadith. Camels bones and leaves can be part of scripture but can never been the complete scripture. Your whole claim was صُحُف does not mean paper

ROFL.... I am sounding annoyed .... my goodness !!!!

So, for you, a "parchment" is a paper?

I don't know how moronic will it get, just in order to massage one's ego of winning an argument.

But to disappoint you further.... Sanaa Manuscript and Birmingham Manuscript, both are written on animal skin, whereas one of them being a palimpsest.

However, you have talked too much and said nothing. Let me reiterate my questions again, which you will never be able to answer.

Tell us the source of your claims that:
1- Quran was compiled and verified by Muhammad (SAW) in his lifetime
2- Quran copied firsthand on the SHEETS OF PAPER, as it exists in the modern day.

I know you do not have an answer, so you will try to divert the discussion everywhere but to these two questions above.

As proved it actually does, so instead of recanting your false statement, as usual you jump to some other obtuse angle. Moving goal posts along the entire discussion every time you can't wiggle out the corner you constantly paint yourself in.

The Quran clarifies the point that it is in the form of a book written on pages. You can argue until you are blue in the face, bring another 100 book of hadith, but this fact does not change.

And you are asking all the wrong questions. You are the one claiming that Quran was written on leaves and donkey bones, so you have to prove that. I don't have to disprove that. The burden of proof is you not me.

All ancient manuscripts found of the Quran none on leaves or bone, specially close to the Prophets time. And talking of ancient manuscripts.

I'm so glad you brought up the Birmingham manuscript, that was going to be my next refutation to your expected jumping up and down and around. First of all you need to know how carbon dating works it cannot pinpoint an exact year, it can give you a range. But these are well within the range of his life or very shortly after. So the Quran almost as it is today and written on pages was around in that time period. That is now proven.

And all these claims you put forward are made by Saudi Mullahs because it does not fit into their narrative from the hadith. So it can't be from the Prophets time, it must be a palimpsest not from his time etc etc. Not only is it written on paper, its in the same sequence as the modern day Quran with chapter separators. This put the hadithists into a tail spin!

It is highly stupid and downright insulting (nauzubillah) to the Prophet and the creator himself who promises to protect the Quran, to think that the Messenger of Allah left this earth with out leaving behind THE Message. The one job he was given to do he failed and so much for divine protection!

And that some dude had to look high and low collecting leaves and bones. ?

In the end I'm going to believe what the Quran says about itself rather than flaky Persian stories of he heard from x who heard from y who heard from z who heard a who heard from b who heard from c. so on and so forth.

Like I said I wouldn't buy a used washing machine on that basis let alone put my beliefs, faith and mostly all my akhira on stake.

Keep babbling until you turn green to black.

"What was really startling about the Birmingham discovery was its early date, with radiocarbon testing putting it between 568 and 645.

The latest date in the range is 13 years after the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632."

Birmingham's ancient Koran history revealed

The Koran discovered at Birmingham University, one of the oldest in the world, was originally from Egypt's earliest mosque, say researchers.

www.bbc.com

Although, I know that you will again start rambling and grappling with your half-witted propositions but you will not answer the two basic questions:

Tell us the source of your claims that:
1- Quran was compiled and verified by Muhammad (SAW) in his lifetime
2- Quran copied firsthand on the SHEETS OF PAPER, as it exists in the modern day.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Yes, there is no such copy that exists which is said to be compiled by the Prophet Mohammad in his lifetime. Let me ask you a simple question, Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?
If you are a Muslim, what inspired you to be a Muslim? And if you are a Muslim are you a Shia or a Sunni?

But Citizen X says that such a copy exists, which was compiled and approved by the Prophet (SAW) and that the copy was written on a paper.

I think you have not even been able to comprehend what is going on the boards here... and then we have to go by your claims about the understanding of Quran....

I have asked a commonsense question for those who could use their logic and rationale but, people like you who look at things through the lens of ahadith can not comprehend the basic things and just come up with nonsensical questions.

There are no stupid questions, but stupid answers. Yours and Citizen X 's answers are just and example to begin with.

Now tell me, there is a verse in the Quran which says not to pray while drunk... does it mean that we can drink (alcohol) afterwards?

Citizen X has cleared it for you but, if you still have a problem then answer my question above.

What makes you think that I am not a Muslim? Do you expect a Christian or a Hindu to debate in favor of Ahadith? Come on.... instead of trying to look like a scholar, it is better to first read and understand things and become a scholar.

I always try to ignore your argument as they are based on illogical and nonsensical replies. Last time you ran away when I asked you to give me the detailed method of how to perform namaz.
Take my advice, if you want to engage with me again, try to come up with a rationale and logical replies based on the book of Allah, not Mullah. I do not like to indulge with a person whose Islam is based on fabricated, fake, and full of contradictory books.

No one ran away. You can go back to that thread and see how Citizen X asked me to carry out the debate here. As, I do not debate based on superficial knowledge, therefore I took some time to really research on the matter under discussion there at that point in time, relating to the use of Camel Urine. I went through all those eight research publications and also verified the hadith and its references.

So rest assured, I do not come here to just massage my ego based on self proclaimed logic and self proclaimed, half-witted, undercooked comments.

So, there is no detailed method of performing namaz in the Quran, so what shall one do? should not pray?

 

[Wake up Pak]

Now tell me, there is a verse in the Quran which says not to pray while drunk... does it mean that we can drink (alcohol) afterwards?

That is for you to clarify as hadith followers believe in ritual prayers (Namaz)

What makes you think that I am not a Muslim? Do you expect a Christian or a Hindu to debate in favor of Ahadith? Come on.... instead of trying to look like a scholar, it is better to first read and understand things and become a scholar.

I know you claim to be a Muslim but what inspired you to be a Muslim? Is it the Quran or ahadith? Being born in a Muslim household does not make one an automatic Muslim.

So, there is no detailed method of performing namaz in the Quran, so what shall one do? should not pray?

That is the whole point. If Allah wanted us to pray he would have given us the details of it. If you do not believe that the Quran is complete and detailed then, I suggest you brush up on your understanding of the basic Quranic verses.
Even your ahadith do not provide a complete detailed method of current ritual prayers.
Also, let me know if, one should pray as Shai or Sunni?

 

[Sohail Shuja]

That is for you to clarify as hadith followers believe in ritual prayers (Namaz)

The version of hadith followers is laid wide open and does it require to be quoted here again? It's nothing hidden.

But your understanding of the Quran is something which is still not widely known, therefore, the onus lies on you to explain your understanding which is not in line with the mainstream.

I know you claim to be a Muslim but what inspired you to be a Muslim? Is it the Quran or ahadith? Being born in a Muslim household does not make one an automatic Muslim.

Come on... what are we looking at here? another updated version of a takfiri?

Grow up man. My faith is my problem, you need to defend your proposition and remain to the point of discussion, objectively. Don't try to ramble everywhere but to the point. So, what is your point here? Whether I die as a Muslim or as a non-muslim (as per your own half cooked and half braided arguments), even then, nothing will go to you. It is between me and the Creator.

That is the whole point. If Allah wanted us to pray he would have given us the details of it. If you do not believe that the Quran is complete and detailed then, I suggest you brush up on your understanding of the basic Quranic verses.
Even your ahadith do not provide a complete detailed method of current ritual prayers.
Also, let me know if, one should pray as Shai or Sunni?

Ahan.... so one should not pray. Please enlighten us more about it in the light of Quran and your own understanding

، وَ اَقِیْمُوا الصَّلٰوةَ وَ اٰتُوا الزَّكٰوةَ وَ ارْكَعُوْا مَعَ الرّٰكِعِیْنَ(۴۳)​

 

[Citizen X]

Tell us the source of your claims that:
1- Quran was compiled and verified by Muhammad (SAW) in his lifetime
2- Quran copied firsthand on the SHEETS OF PAPER, as it exists in the modern day.

The Quran

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it. 15:9

And who was the message sent down to. Prophet Muhammad, so whose duty was it to spread the message to the people and make sure the message was without any change or alteration.

80:11 No indeed; this is a reminder.
80:12 So whoever wills may give heed to it.
80:13 [written] on honored pages.

So where is your physical as well as Quranic proof that the Quran was written on leaves and donkey bones strew across the land in tids and bits and later brought toghther we great effort and put into a form of a book?

Like I said you made this claim, now prove it. I don't have to prove or answer anything because the Quran is clear.

 

[Citizen X]

But @Citizen X says that such a copy exists,

Well I knew you were moronic and shameless specially when you claimed صُحُف DOES NOT MEAN PAGE and were proven otherwise, very deceitfully and shamelessly skipped over that whole issue and shifted the goal posts on to another frivolous point to save face.

But now I know you are an out right liar as well. Because I have never made such claims, ever!

 

[Citizen X]

I always try to ignore your argument as they are based on illogical and nonsensical replies.

Not to mention outright lies. I think you were right to ignore this nonsensical moronic liar.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

The Quran

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it. 15:9

80:11 No indeed; this is a reminder.
80:12 So whoever wills may give heed to it.
80:13 [written] on honored pages.

Neither it proves that the Holy Quran was not written on Paper nor does it disapprove that the "Scripture" was not recorded on mediums other than Paper.

And that is what you had been grappling all the way.

Since, you claim that everything can be proven by Quran and it is clear and detailed, then there must be a support to your argument that the script of the revelations were not copied on leaves, skins on animals and BONES OF CAMELS (not donkeys), etc.

And who was the message sent down to. Prophet Muhammad, so whose duty was it to spread the message to the people and make sure the message was without any change or alteration.

But why? since everything is mentioned in Quran and people do not have to follow him, then why did not Allah (SWT) sent an angel with his book for us to read and follow?

So where is your physical as well as Quranic proof that the Quran was written on leaves and donkey bones strew across the land in tids and bits and later brought toghther we great effort and put into a form of a book?

Sir, it was your claim that you can prove it otherwise in relation to what is in the Hadith books. So, don't just throw your monkey on me. I have already mentioned that I believe the account regarding the compilation of the Quran as given in the Hadith books and verified by the scholars. Didn't you just read the BBC's article I referred? even the Birmingham manuscript is written on "animal skin" aka "Parchment".

Like I said you made this claim, now prove it. I don't have to prove or answer anything because the Quran is clear.

Lols..... I wonder how much more moronic will it get. First let me know that you have established your claim that:

1- Quran was not written on such mediums as leaves, parchments and bones
2- It was compiled in the times of Muhammad (SAW) as we see it today.

Surely, there is no relevance of the ayah's you quoted to support your claim.

 

[Citizen X]

Neither it proves that the Holy Quran was not written on Paper nor does it disapprove that the "Scripture" was not recorded on mediums other than Paper.

Wrong! Quran always mentions for it self as pages, book, scroll and scripture which can and cannot be paper, but never be bones, leaves, stalks and stones. Once again Quran what it says about itself as the verses quoted above mention over hadith any day. For any believing man, what the Quran says about itself should be sufficient, but hadithists...............

Since, you claim that everything can be proven by Quran and it is clear and detailed, then there must be a support to your argument that the script of the revelations were not copied on leaves, skins on animals and BONES OF CAMELS (not donkeys)

FAIL! What a cheap and stupid strawmen argument. Quran doesn't mention SO many things. Does it mention there will be a liar born by the name of Sohail Shujah? No it doesn't, doesn't mean you don't exist. Quran mentions things in detail pertaining to the deen of Allah and things related to it so on and so forth.

Sir, it was your claim that you can prove it otherwise in relation to what is in the Hadith books

NOPE! I don't care about anything in "relation to hadith" Hadith is not a sacred text, nor contains any deen, jurisprudence or religions edict.

You claimed the hadith are correct and everything in it, well at least in this matter. I neither believe the hadith is correct nor believe the bone and stone theory.

Your premise from the get go is wrong. You are starting with the premise that hadith is authentic and anything to the contrary has to be proven. That's not the case. YOU HAVE to prove the hadith is authentic and correct even though it contradicts the Quran.

No indeed; this is a reminder. So whoever wills may give heed to it.[written] on honored pages.

Not bones, not stones, not stalks, not leaves but pages. I dunno about you, but I don't know of any book with pages of bone or stones.

 

[Citizen X]

Neither it proves that the Holy Quran was not written on Paper nor does it disapprove that the "Scripture" was not recorded on mediums other than Paper.

And that is what you had been grappling all the way.

Since, you claim that everything can be proven by Quran and it is clear and detailed, then there must be a support to your argument that the script of the revelations were not copied on leaves, skins on animals and BONES OF CAMELS (not donkeys), etc.


But why? since everything is mentioned in Quran and people do not have to follow him, then why did not Allah (SWT) sent an angel with his book for us to read and follow?


Sir, it was your claim that you can prove it otherwise in relation to what is in the Hadith books. So, don't just throw your monkey on me. I have already mentioned that I believe the account regarding the compilation of the Quran as given in the Hadith books and verified by the scholars. Didn't you just read the BBC's article I referred? even the Birmingham manuscript is written on "animal skin" aka "Parchment".



Lols..... I wonder how much more moronic will it get. First let me know that you have established your claim that:

1- Quran was not written on such mediums as leaves, parchments and bones
2- It was compiled in the times of Muhammad (SAW) as we see it today.

Surely, there is no relevance of the ayah's you quoted to support your claim.

That is for you to clarify as hadith followers believe in ritual prayers (Namaz)

I know you claim to be a Muslim but what inspired you to be a Muslim? Is it the Quran or ahadith? Being born in a Muslim household does not make one an automatic Muslim.

That is the whole point. If Allah wanted us to pray he would have given us the details of it. If you do not believe that the Quran is complete and detailed then, I suggest you brush up on your understanding of the basic Quranic verses.
Even your ahadith do not provide a complete detailed method of current ritual prayers.
Also, let me know if, one should pray as Shai or Sunni?

https://www.siasat.pk/forums/threads/mianwali-incident-killer-of-week-old-baby-should-be-set-free.816345/

 

[Citizen X]

https://www.siasat.pk/forums/threads/mianwali-incident-killer-of-week-old-baby-should-be-set-free.816345/

LOLs seems like some Mullah parast mod is on duty, couldn't handle the truth and deleted my thread!

 

[Wake up Pak]

But your understanding of the Quran is something which is still not widely known, therefore, the onus lies on you to explain your understanding which is not in line with the mainstream.

So basically you are running away, as usual, you do not have anything to back up your claim of Namaz.

Come on... what are we looking at here? another updated version of a takfiri?

Again, in simple terms, what inspired you to become a Muslim besides being born in a Muslim family.

Ahan.... so one should not pray. Please enlighten us more about it in the light of Quran and your own understanding

You quoted the Quranic verse and equated it to the Namaz. Did Allah make a mistake for not giving the exact method of how to pray namaz or did the fabricated hadith writers concoct it?
It is you to enlighten us as you believe in Namaz. (Shia or Sunni)
As I have asked you earlier, I will ask you one more time, where did this namaz come from? Can you give us the exact method of namaz from the Quran or ahadith?

 

[Wake up Pak]

LOLs seems like some Mullah parast mod is on duty, couldn't handle the truth and deleted my thread!

The Mullah parast mod deleted my post about Prophet Mohammad being illiterate as well.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Wrong! Quran always mentions for it self as pages, book, scroll and scripture which can and cannot be paper, but never be bones, leaves, stalks and stones.

There you go.

Now refer to the post # 60, para 2 of this thread and see

First you agreed that the word "Suhuf" is mainly translated as "Scripture" by most of the translators. I took your argument there. But now, you have been webbed in your own cobweb. You clearly argued that it was paper. Now you are just jumping everywhere.

Now, it makes perfect sense to me when I compare the accounts of Hadith for the compilation of Quran on the basis of the following reasons.

1- Muslims were a persecuted community during their initial times. They did not have much resources to copy everything on paper. Paper was invented in China, some 2,000 years ago and before the industrial revolution, it was an expensive and a prized commodity, specially in a desertous land of Arabia, where it was difficult to get the pulp of paper and no skills of paper making.

2- If any copy was compiled by Prophet (SAW), it would've been guarded with the lives of Muslims and would've been preserved, like we have his (SAW's) letters written to different Kings, with his seal on them. But, the oldest copy we have of Quran is scientifically proven to have been written 13 years after the death of the Prophet (SAW). That too had been recently carbon dated with more than 95% CI.

All of these evidences are laid open here in front of you.

FAIL! What a cheap and stupid strawmen argument. Quran doesn't mention SO many things. Does it mention there will be a liar born by the name of Sohail Shujah? No it doesn't, doesn't mean you don't exist.

1- Yes, Quran does not mention so many things. Correct and agreed upon. But you did not accede to the fact earlier and had been whooping around just to prove nothing. This was the sole point from where I started my arguments that for many details we then refer to the Hadith/Sunnah and then go down the hierarchy, in the light of the Governing principle of Quran, which necessarily means that if any details are not in conformity with the Quran, it has to be rejected, whether in Hadith book or whatever.

2- Now I understand that why you are unable to see the evidences and my clear statements..... My name spells "Sohail SHUJA" and not "Shujah" and if you know arabic as per your claim, you may also know that "Shujah" is incorrect.

So, if you even cannot copy my name correctly, which is written clearly .... then... what else should I expect from you, except this grappling and rambling? I accept, it was my fault (mea culpa) to start off an intellectual debate with you. I should've had known about your abilities.

Quran mentions things in detail pertaining to the deen of Allah and things related to it so on and so forth.

Yes, agreed. It mentions things related to deen of Allah (SWT), but initially you were the one trying to prove that the revelation of Quran was inscripted on paper and you were the one who was trying to prove it by the virtue of some verses of Quran.

NOPE! I don't care about anything in "relation to hadith" Hadith is not a sacred text, nor contains any deen, jurisprudence or religions edict.

and I also give a damn about what you believe for yourself. It doesn't make you a person of a lesser kind. However, as I said earlier that if you start criticizing others, then you should be able to have a meaningful discussion to prove your point scholastically. No one really cares and is really interested in what you believe for your ownself, unless and until your finger touches anyone else's nose.

You can track my history of previous 10+ years on the forum, I do not engage in matters relating to anyone's religion and/or beliefs.

You claimed the hadith are correct and everything in it, well at least in this matter. I neither believe the hadith is correct nor believe the bone and stone theory.

Alright Mr. Wiseguy, slap it on my face here if I ever said that everything in Hadith is correct or otherwise shut your big mouth which is spitting lies everywhere. Show me where I have said it? if you fail, then this is the last chance for you that I let it go decently. You may please do not repeat such a slander against me again. IT IS A HUMBLE REQUEST.

Your premise from the get go is wrong. You are starting with the premise that hadith is authentic and anything to the contrary has to be proven. That's not the case. YOU HAVE to prove the hadith is authentic and correct even though it contradicts the Quran.

Again the same lie as stated above. My prelim is that the Hadith has to be in line with the Quran and I have stated it numerous times. Give me a single reference out of my postings and I will never again show up on this forum again.

But, the way you spell my name indicates that there might be a problem with your eyesight and/or the perceptive area of the brain.

No indeed; this is a reminder. So whoever wills may give heed to it.[written] on honored pages.

Going round in circles, trying to bite your own tail. What does it refer to here? that Quran was inscripted firsthand on the pages of paper? or does it mean that a page cannot be written on a parchment, leaf or shoulder bone of a camel?

Not bones, not stones, not stalks, not leaves but pages. I dunno about you, but I don't know of any book with pages of bone or stones.

Ah... your comprehension..... you think that a page is only of a paper?
and a page cannot be written on a leaf, stone or a parchment etc.?

"Suhuf e Ibrahim-a- wa Musa"

World's Oldest Stone Tablet Containing Ten Commandments Up for Auction

The oldest complete version of stone tablets containing the 10 commandments will go on Auction later this month.

www.livescience.com

As I said earlier, in the times of Moses(AS) and Abraham (AS), paper was not even invented.

So, you have zero evidence to discard the accounts of the hadithists in this regard and I have proven my point with other sources and references than the Hadithists' texts.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

So basically you are running away, as usual, you do not have anything to back up your claim of Namaz.

I am no running nowhere. My description would be in line with the most widely accepted ones already available on the internet in details. Therefore, there is no point in repeating all this over here and expend unnecessary time, effort and space.

However, your claim is still something which has to be perused for its validity, reliability and diversity.

Again, in simple terms, what inspired you to become a Muslim besides being born in a Muslim family.

Again, in very simple terms, this question is irrelevant to your proposition. You ought to define your position on the matter, with reference to the context. Period.

You quoted the Quranic verse and equated it to the Namaz. Did Allah make a mistake for not giving the exact method of how to pray namaz or did the fabricated hadith writers concoct it?
It is you to enlighten us as you believe in Namaz. (Shia or Sunni)
As I have asked you earlier, I will ask you one more time, where did this namaz come from? Can you give us the exact method of namaz from the Quran or ahadith?

A very futile effort, but if you still want it then read:

Contact Prayers (Salah / Namaz) Not Mentioned In The Quran? | The Last Dialogue

Is Salah Not Contact Prayer Or Namaz? Salah/ Namaz In Arabic Or In Mother Tongue. What Is The Solution?

www.thelastdialogue.org

67+ Salah Quotes in Quran (verses in Quran About Islamic Prayers)

There are 67+ mentions in the Quran about Salah or the prayer. They contain signifcance of prayer, spirtuality, warnings, and blessings. Read what they are.

myislam.org

Importance of Salah (Prayer) According to the Holy Quran - Islamic Articles

Salah is the major form of worship that a Muslim offers five times a day regularly. It is an obligation upon a Muslim and a Muslim is to offer no excuse when it comes to offering Salah. The offering of Salah in addition to representing the submission of Muslims to their Lord also has other […]

www.quranreading.com

Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)?

Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)? - Find information about Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)?, read general information about diffrent Quran and events in Islam.

hamariweb.com

Salah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.twinkl.com.pk/teaching-wiki/5-times-of-prayer-in-the-quran

Salat in the Quran

Did you know that in all Abrahamic religions, especially Islam, praying and worshiping God is an obligation? Click to learn more about salat in the Quran.

islam4u.pro

Now, my descriptions and arguments are going to be more or less the same. So, instead of wasting my time and effort, I have referred you to the literature already worked upon. I don't intend to reinvent the wheel.

Now your turn to refute logically.

BTW, tell me if you have been circumcised as per the Quranic way? or had you been mutilated in an un-islamic way, the details of which are not found in the Quran.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I am no running nowhere. My description would be in line with the most widely accepted ones already available on the internet in details. Therefore, there is no point in repeating all this over here and expend unnecessary time, effort and space.

However, your claim is still something which has to be perused for its validity, reliability and diversity.


Again, in very simple terms, this question is irrelevant to your proposition. You ought to define your position on the matter, with reference to the context. Period.


A very futile effort, but if you still want it then read:

Contact Prayers (Salah / Namaz) Not Mentioned In The Quran? | The Last Dialogue

Is Salah Not Contact Prayer Or Namaz? Salah/ Namaz In Arabic Or In Mother Tongue. What Is The Solution?

www.thelastdialogue.org

67+ Salah Quotes in Quran (verses in Quran About Islamic Prayers)

There are 67+ mentions in the Quran about Salah or the prayer. They contain signifcance of prayer, spirtuality, warnings, and blessings. Read what they are.

myislam.org

Importance of Salah (Prayer) According to the Holy Quran - Islamic Articles

Salah is the major form of worship that a Muslim offers five times a day regularly. It is an obligation upon a Muslim and a Muslim is to offer no excuse when it comes to offering Salah. The offering of Salah in addition to representing the submission of Muslims to their Lord also has other […]

www.quranreading.com

Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)?

Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)? - Find information about Do You know Quran Verses about Prayer (Salah & Namaz)?, read general information about diffrent Quran and events in Islam.

hamariweb.com

Salah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.twinkl.com.pk/teaching-wiki/5-times-of-prayer-in-the-quran

Salat in the Quran

Did you know that in all Abrahamic religions, especially Islam, praying and worshiping God is an obligation? Click to learn more about salat in the Quran.

islam4u.pro

Now, my descriptions and arguments are going to be more or less the same. So, instead of wasting my time and effort, I have referred you to the literature already worked upon. I don't intend to reinvent the wheel.

Now your turn to refute logically.

BTW, tell me if you have been circumcised as per the Quranic way? or had you been mutilated in an un-islamic way, the details of which are not found in the Quran.

I have nothing to refute it is you who believe in namaz why can't this simple thing go through your thick brain?
So far, You have proved nothing just verbal jargon with zero substance and logic to come up with the detailed method of Namaz.
If you are not sure about something, just accept it, instead of going in circles just to satisfy your inflated ego.
For the last time, I am asking you to give the details of the exact method of the current namaz from your beloved ahadith writers. (Shia ahadith or Sunni ahadith?)
I won't fall for your circumcision garbage right now. just stick to namaz which you believe in so dearly.