The impression given in modern manufactured historybooks that Islam was spread in subcontinent by s

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
One cannot be certain about anything which he or she has not personally witnessed .But I have one question , Has not the role of Sufism and Muslim saints not been overplayed in the story of spread of Islam in subcontinent. Why is this that Islam spread less in Sourthern India , was it not that Muslim Rule did not last long in that part. Are there well documented neutral history books to document rate and reason of conversion to Islam in India .Offcouse we canno rely entirely on book influenced by followers of Sufis themselves .

We do know that Indians had always a liking for so called holy men or those looking holy .

This is an important question because governmetal .political and western circles want us to believe in Idea that Islam is just another spiritualism like other reliigions and no more ,they want us to ignore the ferocity .bravery and sacrifice which the mothers of Muslim youth suffered while establishing rule underwhich Islam could be preached or even practised in the first place . Prophet of islam afterall did try in Meccan life to spread islam by word of mouth but he was not allowed .

Spiritualism alone is not Islam , yogis and high priests existed before Islam mostly relying on mantars ,magic and psychological tactics .

My view is that Sufism and saints went side by side from early on in spread of faith but the real heroes were Muslim Youth who sacrificed for glory of Muslims on battlefield under good generals who later established states where all could fearlessly spread Islam .
 
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Talwar Gujjar

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I agree. This sufism theory was promoted by none other than the British to sponsor and favor pirs who would serve as their agents to pacify and control the masses. Even today, sufism is the favorite Islam of the west that is very much similar to their church system where you are free to do whatever but pay some money to the priest to get forgiven.
 

gorgias

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
اگر آپ علامہ اقبال کے خطوط پڑھیں تو آپ پر تصوف کی حقیقت واضح ہو جائے گی۔اقبال کے تصوف پر شریعت کو ترجیع دی ہے۔ یہ ایک بہت بڑی حقیقت ہے کہ تصوف نے مسلمانوں میں بے عملی پیدا کی ہے۔جبکہ شریعت عمل کا نام ہے۔مسلمان سب سے پہلے سندھ میں آئے محمد بن قاسم کی فتوحات کے بعد جب یہاں کی آبادی مسلمان ہوئی تو ان کو اسلامی تعلیمات دینے کے لیے علما کی آمد شروع ہوئی۔جو ہوتے ہوتے تصوف میں تبدیل ہوگئی۔ اور یہ تصوف رفتہ رفتہ شریعت سے دور ہوگئی۔
 
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thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Dont understand what actually he wants to say..
Did he wants to say..Islam spread in India because
of Sword?? Then he is wrong...there is no doubt..
Sufism had payed a big role spreading Islam in India.
 

gorgias

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I agree. This sufism theory was promoted by none other than the British to sponsor and favor pirs who would serve as their agents to pacify and control the masses. Even today, sufism is the favorite Islam of the west that is very much similar to their church system where you are free to do whatever but pay some money to the priest to get forgiven.

صوفی ازم انگریزوں سے بھی پہلے سے موجود تھی۔ اور اس کو فروغ مغل بارشاہ اورنگ زیب عالمگیر کی وفات (1707)کے بعد ملی۔ انگریزوں نے علما کے رول کو ختم کر کے ملا ازم کو فروغ دیاایسا ملا ازم جو سختی اور سخت گیری پر مشتمل ہے۔
 

thinking

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Talwar ke zoor par Islam kiya ap dunai ka
koi bhi Religion force or spread nahi kar saktay
koi ke ye nature ke khilaf ha...and Islam is the
only Religion..who never goes against Nature..
 

ssaifiii

Voter (50+ posts)
In this modern world as everyone is so busy in his life and believes that money,
possession, physical comfort and many more that happens are more important
than spiritual value of life. We forget that what happens to us are not because of
our ideas and plans but are our rewards as god blessings. Our egos make us
imagine that we are the cause of action. We need to control our arrogance and
vanity because what God gives us he can also take away in a flash. As Sufism
teaches that it is possible for us to see beyond the veils of darkness which
enclothe our belief systems. One who sincerely devotes himself or herself to a
program of Sufi training may eventually approach the state where one can “see
things as they truly are”, when one can “worship God as as though you can see
Him”, and when can truly realize that one is “in the world, but not of the
world”.
For many people in the modern world it may seem that such teachings are alien
to their culture or are a thing of the past – if indeed they ever existed! Others
may instinctively recognize that their destiny lies in the unfolding of these
teachings in their lives, but are faced with overwhelming difficulties in finding a
trustworthy and authoritative teacher who can show them the way out of the
darkness.
 

ssaifiii

Voter (50+ posts)
[h=3]Growth of influence[edit][/h]

The tomb of Khoja Afāq, nearKashgar, China.​

The rise of Islamic civilization, following the initial foundation laid by the Rashidun Caliphate, coincides strongly with the spread of Sufi philosophy in Islam. The spread of Sufism has been considered a definitive factor in the spread of Islam, and in the creation of integrally Islamic cultures, especially in Africa[SUP][53][/SUP] and Asia. TheSenussi tribes of Libya and Sudan are one of the strongest adherents of Sufism. Sufi poets and philosophers such as Khoja Akhmet Yassawi, Rumi and Attar of Nishapur (c. 1145 – c. 1221) greatly enhanced the spread of Islamic culture in Anatolia, Central Asia, and South Asia.[SUP][54][/SUP][SUP][55][/SUP] Sufism also played a role in creating and propagating the culture of the Ottoman world,[SUP][56][/SUP] and in resisting European imperialism in North Africa and South Asia.[SUP][57][/SUP]
Between the 13th and 16th centuries CE, Sufism produced a flourishing intellectual culture throughout the Islamic world, a "Golden Age" whose physical artifacts survive. In many places a pious foundation would endow a lodge (known variously as a zaouia, khanqah, or tekke) in perpetuity (waqf) to provide a gathering place for Sufi adepts, as well as lodging for itinerant seekers of knowledge. The same system of endowments could also pay for a complex of buildings, such as that surrounding the Sleymaniye Mosque in Istanbul, including a lodge for Sufi seekers, a hospice with kitchens where these seekers could serve the poor and/or complete a period of initiation, a library, and other structures. No important domain in the civilization of Islam remained unaffected by Sufism in this period.[SUP][58][/SUP]
 

invalidfreedom

Councller (250+ posts)
Well the invaders like Mehmud and Ghouri were entered in India after Saints came to this region.
You can google the map of Muslim abadi around saints mazaars which is proof that mass conversions happens by saints .
The Hindu were not happy with their religion due to polyandry and something like strict caste system.
 

alisajid

Senator (1k+ posts)
Bhai pahlay sahi histry parh lo...........You dont know the meaning of Sufism yet.............nor the history of Ulma and Olia e karaam......
 

ahmedjadoon

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I agree. This sufism theory was promoted by none other than the British to sponsor and favor pirs who would serve as their agents to pacify and control the masses. Even today, sufism is the favorite Islam of the west that is very much similar to their church system where you are free to do whatever but pay some money to the priest to get forgiven.

Sufism has nothing to do with "free to do whatever" and bribes.Get your facts straight.
 
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awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The threader starter made little sense. He wants us to believe that Islam was spread by the "bravery, ferocity and sacrifice" of conquerors while forgetting that the overwhelming majority of conquerors came to India for the riches of the land.
The Saints were sent by their Masters to different parts of the world to spread the word of the Lord by living amongst the people and engaging with them.

The main creed of Sufi saints was:
1. All people are equal creations of God.
2. The purpose of man is to adopt the attributes of God since man has been created in the image of the creator. (This doesnt mean man tries to become God rather man tries to be benevolent in his own way to other men like God is Benevolent to His creation).
3. Sufis had faith in unity of Divine Revelation i.e. they believed that the message of God was universal and most religions had the same basic principles. This helped them engage more effectively with peoples of other faiths.

The power of these principles is so strong that to this day people are moved by their message while the "brave conquerors" lay forgotten in their marble tombs along with their favorite wives and deer whatnot.

Spiritualism is not a "sect" or a religion, it is a way of life that shuns materialism and is the essence of Islam in many ways. Who do you think followed the life of the Prophet s.a.w more diligently, Shaikh Junaid Baghdadi who said he found God among the poor people of Madina or the Mongol rulers of India who built palaces for their dead animals?
 

Admiral

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
لگتا ہے ہماری عوام الناس کا اپنا دماغ کام نہیں کرتا، جو انگریز چاہتا ہے جیسے چاہتا ہے، ویسے ہی ہماری عوام بن جاتی ہے
پہلے ملّا ازم کو فروغ دیا اور گمراہ جہادیوں کی فوجیں تیار کروا لیں، ساری عوام کو مالِ غنیمت اور ثواب کا لارا لگایا
اب ان کو ضرورت پڑی تو مولوی خراب اور صوفی ٹھیک، تصّوف کا نعرہ بلند کر کے صوفیوں کو مولویوں کے مقابل لا کھڑا کیا ہے
انگریزوں کا پُھدو لگ ہوا ہے، ہماری غریب اکثریت کی وجہ سے
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
Well if Sufism was the answer why did Caliph Abubakr , Umar and Ali had to send armies to Syria ,Egypt or Fars . Fact is who would let them preach Islam in those lands ,Would Persians have allowed Arab prophet to adorn their lives .

I am not saying that Sufi saints had no role in spread of Islam irrespective of which of them differentiated Islam from spiritualism or not . Sufism seems to me to be an assorted lot . There are those who operate within Islamic law . These were hopefully learned men but there is another group which has claims of fantastic type not understandable within concept of Islam where they seem to be assuming some role of prophets themselves by claiming direct contact with creator .

The imortance of faith of kings must be foremost otherwise why would christian padri writes home to Europe according to Dr.Bernier that coming of Dara Shikoh as emperor of Mughal Empire will help in converting India to Christianity .
 

laalaobulbul

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
1) One of the largest Muslim population in present India is in Kerala around (20-25%) the southernmost Indian state. Secondly, Muslim power hold for centuries was around Delhi including present UP and MP which may not have a Muslim population comparable to Bengal (arguably the largest Muslim ethnic group) in Subcontinent which was quite far from the hardcore Muslim ruled areas comprising of North-western India.
2) Role of Sufi saints might be a bit exaggeration as a rule of 7-8 centuries of a single community do bring people from other communities to join its faith. But then again a majority non-Muslim population still present in India do points to the fact that power used (if ever) to convert people might be negligible. Moreover, we might differ with Sufism but they had the major role in converting native people to Islam. I am a Janjua Rajput and my ancestor Raja Mal Khan embraced Islam in 1195 on the hands of a Sufi.
There are many faults in Sufism specially on the followers end yet the claim that it played major role in converting native Indians to Islam is well placed.
 

shaikh

Minister (2k+ posts)
The threader starter made little sense. He wants us to believe that Islam was spread by the "bravery, ferocity and sacrifice" of conquerors while forgetting that the overwhelming majority of conquerors came to India for the riches of the land.
The Saints were sent by their Masters to different parts of the world to spread the word of the Lord by living amongst the people and engaging with them.

The main creed of Sufi saints was:
1. All people are equal creations of God.
2. The purpose of man is to adopt the attributes of God since man has been created in the image of the creator. (This doesnt mean man tries to become God rather man tries to be benevolent in his own way to other men like God is Benevolent to His creation).
3. Sufis had faith in unity of Divine Revelation i.e. they believed that the message of God was universal and most religions had the same basic principles. This helped them engage more effectively with peoples of other faiths.

The power of these principles is so strong that to this day people are moved by their message while the "brave conquerors" lay forgotten in their marble tombs along with their favorite wives and deer whatnot.

Spiritualism is not a "sect" or a religion, it is a way of life that shuns materialism and is the essence of Islam in many ways. Who do you think followed the life of the Prophet s.a.w more diligently, Shaikh Junaid Baghdadi who said he found God among the poor people of Madina or the Mongol rulers of India who built palaces for their dead animals?

What do you mean by faith in the unity of divine revelations. Yes we do believe that divine revelations have same character like Actual Bible but do you believe also that currently Hindu scriptures are divine too .Even Ghenghiz khan believed in One God was his belief based on divine message . Are Hindus also people of book ,they have perhaps biggest number of yogis and meditators .

To confuse Muhammed Islam with Sufism or spiritualism is dangerous trend , after all was not prophet of Islam not meditating before prophethood ,The revelation of O Kambal wali seems to make us think that Allah dissaproved of the path he without prophethood till then was following as Allah had better prescription and message for him and mankind .
 

kayawish

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
its simple calculation man , agar islam sub continent main sword ke zor per pehelta tu Aaj yea 100 crore hindu musalman hote :) in 300 muslim ruling era , hum in hundu nation ko 3000 crore dafa khatam kar sakte tay.This proofs that islam did not spread in sub continent with sword.
 

Ahud1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
[h=1]
Sufism tu Hazrat awais Qarni RA k zamaney sey hey lekin antisufism tehreek zror zionist aur christian k najaeiz ikhtilaat sey pieda huie

bwywaishtah diwar ghor sey purhiey ga



Memoirs of Mr. Hempher, The British Spy to the Middle East
[/h]From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


[TABLE="class: infobox vcard, width: 22"]
Confessions of a British Spy and British Enmity Against Islam[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Author[/TH]
[TD]Ayyub Sabri Pasha[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Country[/TH]
[TD]Ottoman Empire[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Language[/TH]
[TD]Turkish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Subject[/TH]
[TD]Anglophobia
Anti-Wahhabi
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Genre[/TH]
[TD]Propaganda[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Publisher[/TH]
[TD]Waqf Ikhlas Publications[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Publication date
[/TH]
[TD]1868[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Published in English
[/TH]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Memoirs of Mr. Hempher, The British Spy to the Middle East or Confessions of a British Spy is a document purporting to be the account by an 18th-century British agent, Hempher, of his instrumental role in founding the conservative Islamic reform movement of Wahhabism, as part of a conspiracy to corrupt Islam. It first appeared in 1888, in Turkish, in the five-volume Mir'at al-Haramayn of Ayyub Sabri Pasha (who is thought to be the actual author by at least scholar[SUP][1][/SUP]). It has been described as "apocryphal",[SUP][2][/SUP] a "forgery",[SUP][3][/SUP] "utter nonsense",[SUP][4][/SUP] and "an Anglophobic variation on `The Protocols of the Elders of Zion`”.[SUP][2][/SUP] It has been widely translated and disseminated, is available on the internet,[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] and still enjoys some currency among some individuals in the Middle East and beyond. In 2002, an Iraqi military officer recapitulated the book in a “top secret document”.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP]

 

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