islamabadi2
Banned
Oh I would like to know how many elections were held since there were over 50 Khalifahs in history until 1922...? How many elections were held...do you have an answer or are you also wet dreaming?
True Democracy is Islamic Democracy (Khilafat)
Oh I would like to know how many elections were held since there were over 50 Khalifahs in history until 1922...? How many elections were held...do you have an answer or are you also wet dreaming?
You need to study some islamic litrature, may be in past you have gone through only jews litrature because only jews dont want that muslims again adopt that system. Plz no more comments as i dont want to make this matter personal, its about islam and i respect your opinion. tq
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Exactly, and later that torch of 'true democracy' was carried over during days of khulafa-e-rashedeen
Khilafat simply means the ways of running govts by the khulafa-e-rashedeen. A Muslim would NOT bad mouth the system
There were election in every khilafat, better than today democracy but at that time you was not present. Good islamic litrature gives a lot of proof for elections.
But note that, that elections were not by stupid people to select a big stupid person same like Zardari and Pakistani nation.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
No brother, I do not have answer to that. If it was MY system of govt (nauzobillah) I would have known.
But I dont even need to question the wisdom of our master Hazrat Mohammad pbuh and khulfa-e-rashedeen (ra). For ME, its enough to know that these 5 (pbuh and ra) most high of the men had the wisdom that was good for mankind, not just the Ummah.
I have ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT IN ANY CORNER OF MY HEART
about their system i.e. Khilafat, being free of flaw and free of their personal gains.
He pbuh was/is my nabi and they were/are His pbuh khulafa. That's good enough for me. I have enough sins to be held accountable for, let doubts in khilafat.
How ever if you have time and desire, you can feel free to do ample research and find the response to your question. I have no desire to waste my time on some research of which I already know what will be outcome
I hope I have answered your question and curiosity
No doubt, Great Answer for a muslim, but if Allah dont want to open their hearts then you should leav them. Good decision. Appreciated.
islamabadi2
Banned
Governments and systmes are not run by feelings in corners of hearts my friend. You need rules, regulations, constitutions. I again would like you to give me an example of elections held, majlis''s elected in the more than 50 Khalifahs in Islamic history? OK..let me just ask you about the 23rd Khalifah Al Mutasim...when was he elected according to the Khilafat system you are dreaming about. Stop dreaming of this utopia. 3 out of 4 of Khulfah e Rashideen were MURDERED. There was no such thing as a system of government and there were great disagreements in every "selection" not election that took place.
YAHYA87
Senator (1k+ posts)
I dont think their is any fixed system which can be called Islamic...Every system has its own benefits and cost and every system also depends on the societies and cultures as well...Best example is Chinese culture as their the best suited system is Socialism and dictatorship WHICH IS VERY EVIDENT by the progress of China and Singapore...In the same way in pre and post Islamic Arab world Khilafat system worked cause Arabs were actually divided in tribes and each tribes had their own leaders and and were taking care of their own interests but Khilafat system able to Unite all those tribes all together and make them a single power...Similarly in Indian subcontinent their were division of territories in Raja Maharaja but Mughal king Akbar able to Unite them by introducing a system which is very similar to current feudal system...In the same way Russians were involved in bad relations with many countries and often saw many war like situations in 1980s and early 1900s and for that they need to constantly prepare their military as well as support their administration so they found communism based on marxist ideology for themselves and by that they became Super power as well....French been through Brutality and Tirany for 100 years by their kingdom and finally found democracy as their solution to their problems which later adopted by Americans against British empire as well...So the success of every system depends on society where the system is implemented....So instead of believing blindly we should first look at our society and then come up with comprehensive system that could make us efficient....
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
You are entitled to your opinion. But I must ask you this. And you do not have to answer if you don't want to. Are you a Muslim person??
And, no, I will NOT give up my dreams. They are solely mine and I have a right to dream of about anything I want to.
I have a dream that Allah somehow and soon give me a chance to help Pakistan and Pakistanis. I have a dream that I want to eliminate corruptions, reform police culture, fix education systems. And I have the plans for these. All I need is a chance from Allah to give me absolute majority in the cabinet, w/o which my dream will be shattered
Remember, dream never dies but the dreamer.
Thanks, no more argument with you. I hope you tell me if you are a Muslim. If you are not, that's ok too. Again feel free to withhold that information if you wish
Salam
awan4ever
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Then give us an example of a perfect system...which you aspire to emulate...
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
Well said.That is my point.The only one calif,the first one left this world naturally,rest of three were stabbed by Muslims not enemies. That is why I say that there no Nizam fixed in Islam.We should adopt according to time and conditions.
Mr. baig and Mr. Islamabadi i suspect your eman as a muslim and your wisdom as a human.
1st thing, its Kufar to bad mouth about Suhaba
2nd thing, the islamic system is not developd by suhaba, but is derived and extract from Quran and Sunnah, any muslim cant reject islamic system.
You both need to update your islamic knowledge if you interest to do so, specially read Fiqah books.
Try to be Muslim at least if you dont want to become a good muslim.
1st thing, its Kufar to bad mouth about Suhaba
2nd thing, the islamic system is not developd by suhaba, but is derived and extract from Quran and Sunnah, any muslim cant reject islamic system.
You both need to update your islamic knowledge if you interest to do so, specially read Fiqah books.
Try to be Muslim at least if you dont want to become a good muslim.
if this Islamabadi call him a muslim, still i will not beleive, because a muslim can't use word murder for suhaba and garbage for islamic system. May be he is Munafiq
islamabadi2
Banned
FIrst I used garbage to describe the thread not the Islamic system. You do not even get this...go and do a double PhD before you chat with me. Secondly Im a Muslim who believes in reality not made up stories. It is making me laugh why nobody has yet answered me. My question was of the over 50 Khalifahs in Islamic history until 1922 how many were elected? The fact of the matter is they were dictatorshps with Khilafat passed down in the family. The Ummayad family at first...then the Ababsids. The last Abbasid Khalifah was murdered by Hulaku Khan. After that the Khilafat went to the Turkish Ottomans. There were never any elections...are you people even normal? Or u are one fo those ppl from Sialkot who participated in the public execution?
Dont cry, i am here to answer you 2nd time for same question;
There were elections / opinions every time and the best people were requested to be leader, especially Khalaft e rashida.
For your information, im PhD in "Political Marketing" and your type of people are my students.
anglopakiman
Voter (50+ posts)
@islamabadi2
hey no argument from me about the degeneracy of later so-called khalifas (especially the ottomans). When the Prophet (saw) and his blessed sahabah were alive, the khalifa system was practicable. however, inevitably, because of the imperfection of mankind, the khalifa system degenerated into a hereditary monarchy. In this time, when the family had become unglued in much of the western world and in which divorce is becoming more common in the east, and in which so called "liberation movements" take root even in much of the islamic world, whether under the banner of "gay" or "women's" liberation, such "liberation" actually means simple slavery to one's own animal desires. there is no real hope at least in my opinion, of resurrecting true islamic government unless allah intervenes.
hey no argument from me about the degeneracy of later so-called khalifas (especially the ottomans). When the Prophet (saw) and his blessed sahabah were alive, the khalifa system was practicable. however, inevitably, because of the imperfection of mankind, the khalifa system degenerated into a hereditary monarchy. In this time, when the family had become unglued in much of the western world and in which divorce is becoming more common in the east, and in which so called "liberation movements" take root even in much of the islamic world, whether under the banner of "gay" or "women's" liberation, such "liberation" actually means simple slavery to one's own animal desires. there is no real hope at least in my opinion, of resurrecting true islamic government unless allah intervenes.
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
Here you are.A nice note indeed.(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap)(clap)
Khilafat if better than current democracy, you people not understand and not see what is going on in world, In europe and America as well. for God sake dont interfare for a good cause to bring this system in islamic world. we can expect resistance from Non-muslims but you are a muslim. or not you ?
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
Leave our eeman to us and our ALLAH.But you are wasting your and others time in silly questions.Just to show your knowledge(so called) you are sending long and meaning less posts.
Study other subject.
