Dear Pseudo Liberals, what is the point of belittling the sacrifices of our soldiers in 65 war?

Shah Shatranj

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Pseudo Liberals, what is the point of belittling the sacrifices of our soldiers in ’65 war?


We all know for a fact by now that terrorists are “brainwashed zombies product of mullah ideology of Zia/Saudi[insert whatever you want here]”, that is a well-established fact by now. And that is very well. We have blackened tons of perfectly good newsprint to preach this mantra. But there is another brainwashed gang in our midst and this one didn’t go to the medressahs, they went to universities abroad.

While the extremists on the right get paid with 72 virgins, the ones on the left are paid in NGO consultancies, op-eds in NYT and journalism fellowships. The difference lies only in the type of heaven they believe in, the heaven somewhere above the clouds or the heaven on the western hemisphere of this earth. The reality of both is hotly contested and beyond the scope of this short blog.

One uniting factor for both these gangs is they both see the world in black and white. As I said, ink and paper worth millions have been spent on the lunacy of the right, lets talk about the left for a change and their wholesale hatred of our military.

The Pakistani military, like all armies in the world, has a bit of everything. They have stories of courage as well as corruption, they have had good leaders and bad, selfless martyrs and black sheep. It is a worthy cause to expose, shame and ask for investigations against the corrupt, and black sheep of our army. It is a noble and brave act to write, speak and act against the people who harm our country, willfully or ignorantly, inside our Army’s ranks or outside. And it is stupid to believe that everyone in our army is an angel from heavens.

On the other hand, it is equally stupid to believe that everyone in the Army is in it for the plots and the lands, or that all officers are rich beyond belief, or that they all call us “bloody civilians”, or that they all are madmen hellbent on destroying our precious democracy.

However for some, believing these things is a rewarding enterprise. The people who constantly write for army and constantly write against army have no overlap. There is no desire on both sides to be objective, to appreciate what is to be appreciated and to condemn what is to be condemned. That is where they both lose their credibility.

Another defining aspect of the lunatics on the left is their failure to understand the imaginations and aspirations of Pakistanis. Take the example of the recent Twitter trend against Dawn newspaper. I am sure Dawn editorial staff will dismiss it as another outburst from “ignorant, brainwashed Pakistanis – most probably fueled by some shadowy ISPR funds”, and this patronizing attitude towards the average person is the core of their problem.

They, in their high and mighty castles of self-righteousness fail to even understand what the 65 war stands for in the mind of an average Pakistani. They did not take into consideration what 6 September means for a Pakistani before embarking upon their arrogant campaign of “teaching Pakistanis whats what”.

6th September, 1965 and the memorial we hold every year is not about Operation Gibraltar. As you may or may not have noticed, we do not celebrate general Musa Khan or Yahya Khan or Maj Gen Akhtar Malik, we do not show their photos on TV neither are there any songs about their heroism or ‘brilliant strategic wisdom’. What we do celebrate every year is the courage and selfless devotion to country of the thousands who did not hesitate to give their lives when the country needed them. We show Major Aziz Bhatti on TV, the songs we play are for him and many like him. This is the day to thank the nameless faceless hundreds who were ready to jump into fire so that no harm may come to this country.

We remember the sheer madness of good men who left their families behind to fight and die not for any gain or glory but to do what they considered their duty. We celebrate people like M M Alam who represented the epitome of skill and fearlessness. We celebrate Aziz Bhatti and his handful of men willing and able to stand against an overpowering enemy.

We celebrate the fact that we faced an army many times our size and we resisted bravely, we did not give up Lahore and Sialkot. More than that, this is the day we pay tributes countless others who have died for our country before and after 65, not generals but ordinary soldiers and officers on the ground. We pay tributes to those who continue to die, believing, perhaps foolishly, that their deaths and sacrifices will mean something to their countrymen.

Before belittling the contributions of these men, and then blaming the reaction on some ISPR conspiracy, it would be great if these authors get down from their high-horses and try to understand the people they are trying to preach to. Maybe, excuse me for this crazy theory, people will respond positively to your criticism if after writing 150 articles against Pakistan Army, you write one article appreciating something they have done (I’m looking at you Cyril Almaeda).

And maybe if you write in a balanced and objective way for these ‘jaahil Pakistanis‘, showing that the aim of your criticism is to improve the Army not to destroy it, then Pakistanis may not believe you work for Modi.

But then again, there aren’t a lot of people who hope to get their 72 virgins by being balanced, moderate and objective.

Source
 
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Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I think you have explained the emotions, the true spirit of celebration and real reasons for the pride very well. Kudos
 

Diriyah

Banned
Why are we stuck in 1965? like those LP records.

That one small thin 1965 sheet will not cover all that is exposed now.

Problems we have today is 100X times more serious then what we as Pakistani faced in 1965. Lets celebrate Defence day, it has nothing to do with winning or losing.
 

khaaki

Senator (1k+ posts)
pseudo liberals have anything and everything to go for and praise for that is anti pak anti islam - why not ship them to those who they praise for and vie for!!
 
pseudo liberals have anything and everything to go for and praise for that is anti pak anti islam - why not ship them to those who they praise for and vie for!!

Why not to send you to Saudi Arabia?

The difference between Liberal and Mullah is:

A Mullah believes in sadistic , unjust and partial God

while a liberal believes in all loving , just and impartial God

Choice is yours!
 

STORMTROOPER

MPA (400+ posts)
Why not to send you to Saudi Arabia?

The difference between Liberal and Mullah is:

A Mullah believes in sadistic , unjust and partial God

while a liberal believes in all loving , just and impartial God

Choice is yours!


Please stop bad mouthing the religious clergy. The truth of the matter is that if you jump on the extreme end of an ideology- the out come will be pain and suffering.

If you take the philosophy of liberals and seculars to an extreme, you will find out that historically individuals who have indulged in such thought have committed the worst of atrocities such as the ones done by Mao,Stalin and Pol Pot
 

khaaki

Senator (1k+ posts)
Why not to send you to Saudi Arabia?

The difference between Liberal and Mullah is:

A Mullah believes in sadistic , unjust and partial God

while a liberal believes in all loving , just and impartial God

Choice is yours!

And that's again your tainted thoght due to some kind of irrational gene mutation - khair nonetheless, I'll rather save you some grace and money as I am already in Saudi on a job assignment for the last 4 months and believe you me that my God is not any of these mental fabrications of yours that you just ascribed to him- the exalted the most beneficient.

partial or impartial - again its a relative frame of mind that you're coming from - but don't mind I won't lock my horns with you on this -
Have already seen your and yours alike argument and counter arguments torn apart in one such thread - so no offense but to me there is no more credibility or readability liking left in your statements.

helen of troy koi aye koi jaye sanu ki - khush rehya karo o vi apnay kharchay te!!
 
Please stop bad mouthing the religious clergy. The truth of the matter is that if you jump on the extreme end of an ideology- the out come will be pain and suffering.

If you take the philosophy of liberals and seculars to an extreme, you will find out that historically individuals who have indulged in such thought have committed the worst of atrocities such as the ones done by Mao,Stalin and Pol Pot

Sorry... They were not liberals but dictators similar to those appreciated by Mullahs ... you won't see liberals appreciate such kind of people

Anyway, about other things I agree with u


And that's again your tainted thoght due to some kind of irrational gene mutation - khair nonetheless, I'll rather save you some grace and money as I am already in Saudi on a job assignment for the last 4 months and believe you me that my God is not any of these mental fabrications of yours that you just ascribed to him- the exalted the most beneficient.

partial or impartial - again its a relative frame of mind that you're coming from - but don't mind I won't lock my horns with you on this -
Have already seen your and yours alike argument and counter arguments torn apart in one such thread - so no offense but to me there is no more credibility or readability liking left in your statements.

helen of troy koi aye koi jaye sanu ki - khush rehya karo o vi apnay kharchay te!!

Can you post the link of that thread .... So that I can enjoy and readers too;)

just yesterday u posted a news full of lies about 4 million people while the people of that ethnic group are just 2.5 million in this world, just imagine how big mouth liar the people are you follow
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?377556-Rohingia-Muslims-prepare-for-life-in-America
 
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فالتو

MPA (400+ posts)
آٹھویں جماعت کی معاشرتی علوم کی کتاب کے علاوہ جنہوں نے کچھ پڑھا ہے ان کو ٦٥ کی اصلیت معلوم ہے


یہ بھی معلوم ہے کہ کشمیر پہ محاذ پہلے کس نے کھولا تھا اور اس بیوقوفی کی سزا پنجاب میں کس طرح ادا کی گئی تھی


جو قومیں اپنے آپ سے جھوٹ بولتی ہیں ان کی نسلوں میں صرف جھوٹے پیدا ہوتے ہیں


سچ بولیۓ
اپنے لئے
قوم کے لئے


 

armani

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am a biochemist, and I loved your " irrational gene mutation" statement :lol: !

And that's again your tainted thoght due to some kind of irrational gene mutation - khair nonetheless, I'll rather save you some grace and money as I am already in Saudi on a job assignment for the last 4 months and believe you me that my God is not any of these mental fabrications of yours that you just ascribed to him- the exalted the most beneficient.

partial or impartial - again its a relative frame of mind that you're coming from - but don't mind I won't lock my horns with you on this -
Have already seen your and yours alike argument and counter arguments torn apart in one such thread - so no offense but to me there is no more credibility or readability liking left in your statements.

helen of troy koi aye koi jaye sanu ki - khush rehya karo o vi apnay kharchay te!!
 

khaaki

Senator (1k+ posts)
Sorry... They were not liberals but dictators similar to those appreciated by Mullahs ... you won't see liberals appreciate such kind of people

Anyway, about other things I agree with u




Can you post the link of that thread .... So that I can enjoy and readers too;)

just yesterday u posted a news full of lies about 4 million people while the people of that ethnic group are just 2.5 million in this world, just imagine how big mouth liar the people are you follow
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?377556-Rohingia-Muslims-prepare-for-life-in-America

Like I said I don't need to get into this debacle of proving myself to you as you and I are in a total different league when it comes to discussion. You're a compulsive twister of stated facts. so let me break it down for the ease of understanding and I will try to answer;
1-I posted a news full of lies - I gave you a link and if you think it is incorrect, go ahead and talk to the publisher and once you get an answer let me know about it. Additionally, this link was sent to you because you intentionally omitted what i wrote that i am basing my assertion based on my disucssion with a fellow saudi gentleman- but anyways the personlike you wanted to stretch it, hence i posted this just for you.

Secondly, this is the thread where you were running away from the arguments of some learned ppl and were wishy washy all along;
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?373689-Re-منطقی-ہیتواباس&p=3489939#post3489939

hope it is enough for you to stop stooping too low and talk with some sanity and ethics if you've one. Otherwise, I won't argue and talk back as this is not my way of dealing with ppl.
 
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Like I said I don't need to get into this debacle of proving myself to you as you and I are in a total different league when it comes to discussion. You're a compulsive twister of stated facts. so let me break it down for the ease of understanding and I will try to answer;
1-I posted a news full of lies - I gave you a link and if you think it is incorrect, go ahead and talk to the publisher and once you get an answer let me know about it. Additionally, this link was sent to you because you intentionally omitted what i wrote that i am basing my assertion based on my disucssion with a fellow saudi gentleman- but anyways the personlike you wanted to stretch it, hence i posted this just for you.

Secondly, this is the thread where you were running away from the arguments of some learned ppl and were wishy washy all along;
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?373689-Re-منطقی-ہیتواباس&p=3489939#post3489939

hope it is enough for you to stop stooping too low and talk with some sanity and ethics if you've one. Otherwise, I won't argue and talk back as this is not my way of dealing with ppl.

I recommend everyone to read the thread link posted by Khaaki, so that they can themselves know that who ran out of arguments and who was avoiding to answer(clap).......... but with open heart and without religious biases
 

khaaki

Senator (1k+ posts)
I recommend everyone to read the thread link posted by Khaaki, so that they can themselves know that who ran out of arguments and who was avoiding to answer(clap).......... but with open heart and without religious biases

Now keep jumping from one hoop to the other - and run from one topic to the other. No wonder your gene mutation is driving you nuts . I feel for you!!
 
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غزالی

MPA (400+ posts)
پینسٹھ کے جنگ کے بارے جس سوال کا جواب آج تک نہیں ملا وہ یہ کہ
پاکستان نے کشمیر میں آپریشن جبرالٹر شروع کیا یعنی پہل کی، گو یہ پہل بین الاقوامی سرحد کی خالف ورزی نہیں تھی
جب آپ پہل کرتے ہیں تو اس کے ردِعمل/نتائج کی پیش بندی بھی کرتے ہیں، یہ بات بھی اب تسلیم شدہ ہے کہ جب بھارت نے پنجاب کی سرحد پر جوابی محاذ کھولا تو اس کو بغیر کسی مزاحمت کے پہلے پہل کھلا میدان ملا، تاوقتیکہ کہ چھاؤنیوں سے فوج بارڈر پر اگلے مورچوں تک پہنجتی، اسی دوران انڈین فوج نے پنجاب کی سرحد پر بہت سے علاقے پر قبضہ کر لیا تھا

یہ مثال ہمیں جی ایچ کیو اور اس کے جرنیلوں کی اہلیت اور دوراندیشی کے بارے میں بہت کچھ بتاتی ہے کہ یہ کتنے کھلنڈرے (چارلٹان) قسم کے جنرلز رہے ہیں اور کتنی سنجیدگی سے جنگی منصوبے اور حکمت عملیاں طے کرتے ہیں، اسی سلسلے میں کارگل کی کمانڈو جرنیل (جو روز شام کسی نہ کسی چینل پر بیٹھا بھونک رہا ہوتا ہے) کی آخری مہم جوئی کے نتائج اور یادیں ہماری قوم کی یاداشت میں ابھی تازہ ہیں

بعض لوگوں کو پڑھکر شائد حیرانی ہو کہ کارگل کے گناہ بے لذت میں ہمارے زیادہ جوان شہید ہوئے تھے بہ نسبت پینسٹھ کی جنگ میں
 

khaaki

Senator (1k+ posts)
Running from What? ... Can u explain?... So that we can have discussion about that

Ditto my first comment - I won't argue unneccsarily and that too for the sake of getting one's post count jumping to higher ranks!! Aap apna kaam jaray rakhain jo aap ki zehni ro hai us ke mutabiq - Baqi parhay likhay aur suljhay huway mobahisay abhi aap ke liyay nahi hain. Enjoy your stay on this forum as I need to get back to my work for the time being!!
 

Pathfinder

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Why not to send you to Saudi Arabia?

The difference between Liberal and Mullah is:

A Mullah believes in sadistic , unjust and partial God

while a liberal believes in all loving , just and impartial God

Choice is yours!

Two of THE WORST Ideologies; Nazi, Political Far Right and Communism, Political Far Left have killed more humanity than another Ideology DO NOT paint the current Religious extremism with the same brush Mr atheist.
 
Ditto my first comment - I won't argue unneccsarily and that too for the sake of getting one's post count jumping to higher ranks!! Aap apna kaam jaray rakhain jo aap ki zehni ro hai us ke mutabiq - Baqi parhay likhay aur suljhay huway mobahisay abhi aap ke liyay nahi hain. Enjoy your stay on this forum as I need to get back to my work for the time being!!


This is what I find in your first comment

And that's again your tainted thoght due to some kind of irrational gene mutation - khair nonetheless, I'll rather save you some grace and money as I am already in Saudi on a job assignment for the last 4 months and believe you me that my God is not any of these mental fabrications of yours that you just ascribed to him- the exalted the most beneficient.

partial or impartial - again its a relative frame of mind that you're coming from - but don't mind I won't lock my horns with you on this -
Have already seen your and yours alike argument and counter arguments torn apart in one such thread - so no offense but to me there is no more credibility or readability liking left in your statements

helen of troy koi aye koi jaye sanu ki - khush rehya karo o vi apnay kharchay te!!

So you want to discuss such kind of crap with me?
 
Two of THE WORST Ideologies; Nazi, Political Far Right and Communism, Political Far Left have killed more humanity than another Ideology DO NOT paint the current Religious extremism with the same brush Mr atheist.

Pathfinder!

Can u differentiate the Nazi ideology with the ideology we read in early Islamic literature coined by Mullahs?

Have u ever seen liberals appreciating Nazis or Communists or Far right or left ?
But we often see , Mullahs even appreciating Nazis "as a Jew Killer God "