Warning from Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala

Faiza

Moderator
Staff member
Be United do not Dispute

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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We can all tell each other lets unite but that on its own is not enough for unity. People need something that unites them. One can say yes we have the quran for that purpose but even that is not enough because the quran needs to be interpreted properly and that is not possible without its proper understanding and that need a lot of knowledge both of the human language and how God uses it and also the knowledge about the real world realities the quran talks about.

Muslims have paid little attention to these factors and due to remaining ignorant and uneducated they lack power to think at the level the quran requires of them. This is why word unity is a very loaded word if we open it up to see what it really means. So I do not see unity between people who claim to be muslim till I can see highly educated people who try to educate the rest amongst muslims.

Before any people could unite they need some basis for unity and these basis will have to be acceptable and suitable to all who wish to unite. Mullahs do not discuss in detail things which divide us so that people could see why they are divided and whether it is right for them to remain divided on those grounds.

This demands discussion about concept of God in proper quranic context. It also demands proper definition of word sunnah in proper quranic context or the rightful place of hadis in deen of islam. Once we all become aware of these basics things properly we will no longer remain divided.

For so long as muslims believe in God as a deity for worship and think deen of islam means pooja paat of God there is not going to come about any unity or ummah. It is because deen of islam is basically about people living properly in this world as a human brotherhood under rule of law of God. This is why muslims need to concentrate on this foundational fact before anything else. Pooja paat has nothing at all to do with this basic concept of deen of islam and if anything it is designed to take people away from things which matter for living in this world properly. This is proof that make beliefs were designed by rulers, money lenders and mullahs to take the attention of masses away from real world realities so that these people could abuse human beings at will in the very name of God. For a detailed explanation of things see HERE and HERE. For so long as people will not give rightful place to God, his messages and messengers they will remain stuck in terrible state of existence suffering constantly by hands of each other all over this world.

If muslims will not learn the message of God properly to live by it faithfully then they will be forced to live like animals by people of the rest of the world. They will be forced to turn kaafir rather than remaining name sake muslims. Things are beginning to go in that direction so muslims must wake up and not dig their own grave. Stop being pooja paat name sake muslims and become muslims according to the quran and see the results for doing so. For a detailed explanation of things about the quran and deen of islam see HERE and HERE



Remember;-

1)In deen of islam authority only and only rests with word of God alone. Not any human being at all be one messenger of God. What is in line with word of God is deen of islam and what is not in line with word of God is not deen of islam.

2)What is truly in line with word of God ensures well being of mankind this is how we come to know it is truly in line with word of God.

3)This is why people who claim to be muslims must stop equating anything with the quran be it word or deed of the messenger of God.

4)Only God knows full-well what his messengers did according to his will and where they fell short of what was required of them by God. People should follow their examples where they fulfilled mission of God according to his will and they should stay clear of things where they made odd mistakes. The quran does not approve blind following of anyone be one messenger of God. After all it is possible for a human to become victim of a human error. Messengers of God never did anything wrong intentionally or knowingly.


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asifA1

Minister (2k+ posts)
Manny people don't even realize they are performing Shirk to all the way to Zina but knowingly don't blame themselves for any wrong doings! (Except those in mental illness patients)
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)















 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Good message dear the choice but in a way incomplete. People have not left the quran but its proper understanding. This is the main point that needs emphasis.

The quran is read by so called muslims day and night but not for knowing the purpose it is revealed for nor for knowing the way whereby people could fulfil the purpose the quran was revelaed for.

The day people who claim to be muslims start reading the quran for its proper understanding things will start changing for the better for this ummah. For a detailed explanation of the quranic message see HERE and HERE.

regards and all the best.
 

Solomon2

Councller (250+ posts)
Good message dear the choice but in a way incomplete. People have not left the quran but its proper understanding. This is the main point that needs emphasis.
But why should Islam prevail over other ways at all?

What is good in Islam that is original? And is it not true that what is original in Islam is not good?

Pakistan was not created in 1947 to be an "Islamic" State but a state for Muslims of the subcontinent, ostensibly a place where they could further their lives and explore their spirituality without the oppressive weight of majority Hindu culture. But for decades now Pakistanis have been locked into limits set by self-interested leaders unwilling to challenge violent bigotries that might upset the apple cart - and the vise appears to be tightening.
 

Steyn

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
But why should Islam prevail over other ways at all?

Because Islam is the only religion acceptable to God. Whether anyone likes it or not, it will prevail and it has prevailed despite the massive failures of Muslims and cunning plots of its enemies.

What is good in Islam that is original? And is it not true that what is original in Islam is not good?

What a stupid statement. Have you actually read the Holy Quran. It contains the message of all previous books sent by God in its uncorrupted form that Jews and Christians corrupted.

Read the Bible and the blasphemous stories about innocent Prophets of God that you can't even read to your children. Even the scholars of your religions admit your books are adulterated.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
But why should Islam prevail over other ways at all?

What is good in Islam that is original? And is it not true that what is original in Islam is not good?

Pakistan was not created in 1947 to be an "Islamic" State but a state for Muslims of the subcontinent, ostensibly a place where they could further their lives and explore their spirituality without the oppressive weight of majority Hindu culture. But for decades now Pakistanis have been locked into limits set by self-interested leaders unwilling to challenge violent bigotries that might upset the apple cart - and the vise appears to be tightening.

Dear solomon, please note the fact that the quran is a stand alone book. It is the only book of this nature in our human world today. So it is in the best interest of yourself to prepare yourself for understanding it properly by learning about the proper way of understanding the quran properly. Once you have done that then read the quran for its proper understanding by yourself and then reach the conclusion about it.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Does the quran "stand alone" from language? Change the language and you change the book, yes?

Dear solomon, please explain in detail what you mean by changing language. The quran is only that which is in arabic language not its translations or interpretations, even if they are in arabic language.

Only quran is believed revealed word of God in deen of islam, all other works are by people (not God) about deen of islam be they muslims or nonmuslims.

regards and all the best.
 

Solomon2

Councller (250+ posts)
Dear solomon, please explain in detail what you mean by changing language.
Change the definition of the words and you change their meaning. And in authoritarian and totalitarian cultures - those where freedom of inquiry and expression are severely restricted - the meaning of words is controlled by those who exercise power, not those who originally wrote or uttered them, right?

The quran is only that which is in arabic language not its translations or interpretations, even if they are in arabic language.
And since Arabic is a high-context language it isn't even enough to know the meaning of the words to understand the communication that was originally intended, right?

Only quran is believed revealed word of God in deen of islam, all other works are by people (not God) about deen of islam be they muslims or nonmuslims.
Therefore the quran is infinitely malleable by tyrants and every other work, no matter how it enhances the human soul, may be trashed at will, right?
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Change the definition of the words and you change their meaning. And in authoritarian and totalitarian cultures - those where freedom of inquiry and expression are severely restricted - the meaning of words is controlled by those who exercise power, not those who originally wrote or uttered them, right?

And since Arabic is a high-context language it isn't even enough to know the meaning of the words to understand the communication that was originally intended, right?

Therefore the quran is infinitely malleable by tyrants and every other work, no matter how it enhances the human soul, may be trashed at will, right?

Thank you for your kind response, dear solomon. You have raised a vitally important point about human language. Human language is nothing more than words and meanings. Many words in a human language have same or similar meanings as well as the very same word can have many different meanings. This is an accepted fact and anyone can verify it for oneself.

You are absolutely right that since this is the problem with human language so we human beings define words for our uses so that they serve our purposes.

In case of the quran this does not cause any problems. Why not? It is because the quran is word of God. God has used human language to express his own thoughts in order to guide humanity.

By asking certain relevant questions we can arrive at a definite conclusion. For example, why do human beings need guidance from God? What the guidance of God has to be about? By asking these like questions in a way we are gradually building up a standard or criterion or benchmark or yardstick for proper interpretation of the quranic text.

You see God has created each and everything for some purpose which only and only he knows and unless he himself tells us that purpose, we could never know it for definite. The question therefore is what is that purpose and does the quran talk about it or explains it or should it? The answer is yes it does. Otherwise it could not be from God.

If the quran states the purpose for which God ended up creating this world then he also has to let human beings know what they need to think and do so that the purpose for which God created everything could become fulfilled. Moreover why this is important for human beings only to know? It is because God has created all things and he has already programmed them to various degrees from the most programmed to the least programmed. This is why things that are fully programmed by God function that way and things which are partially programmed function the way they are supposed to.

Human beings are programmed to self program themselves through direct interaction with things as well as to learn through help of revelation from God. This is why human beings think and do things very differently from all other things or living things.

None can learn anything at all about revelation of God unless one first learns things by interacting with existing things within reach of one's senses. This is why anyone who does not have reasonable understanding of real world realities cannot understand the quranic text correctly at all.

This is why to understand the quran properly one has to first come up with a proper way for understanding the quranic text properly. The proper way for understanding the quran properly is the criterion for judging whether one has understood the quranic text properly or not.

This is why the only base of deen of islam is the quran as stand alone book. Once the quran is understood properly from then on the quran itself becomes the sole criterion for judging all other information by all other sources of information whether any particular piece of information in other sources is true or false or right or wrong or beneficial or harmful etc etc.

I have explained a lot of things about the quran and deen of islam in my posts in my provided links here and there on this forum. May be you will find them helpful in this regard.

regards and all the best.
 
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