SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

[basim973]

My question to u basim973 is :
Are naats and hamds also prohibited or qawalis eg Shahe Madina Yasrab ke wali banned according to your fatwah video?????

WE all are granted a piece of brain in our head, thanks to Allah (SWT). My humble request to all my dear brothers is to learn the principles of isalam (the quran and the hadith & sunnah) and judge 4 urself. I am not a scholors i had passed the links of scholors talks using the references of quran and hadith in their talks.........some my brothers donot have patience 2 listen and think on the message but so eager to put on labels.............
We r gona answer to Allah (swt) and there we cant reply that i do this bcaz i found my parents, my society or my peer doing this thats y i had bin doin that 2............

my message again..........learn the basics like we leaned English although its not our language.........2day learning is very easy every thing is on the net but take the biasedness out and judge honestly

May Allah guide us all (ameen)

 

[Mughal1]

Yes dear basim, only islam is islam nothing else can be islam. Whoever believes in islam is a muslm. Labels are not only chosen by people themselves but have been stuck by opponents of ideas or beliefs as well to sepate themselves of those with whom they disagree. Regardless if the base is wrong then the ideas based on that foundation are also wrong.

http://www.bizbrowse.com/yarehman/islam/Special/companions/ashab e suffa.php

http://www.massmedia.pk/videos/354/speech-by-siraj-ul-haq-on-"-ashab-e-suffa"

 

[Cheeko]

My brother is confused and stuck in a propaganda.
Please, watch following and all the parts patiently. The man is showing all the proofs (of course you can write down these and check if available online or physically from the market, after all its a very important issue, as what if you got it wrong the consequences are serious).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EXTiAagL2s

May Allah (SWT) guide us all (Ameen)

Basim above in one post you told that your brother listend some Makki sahab who is Hanfi and now you showing video of modified Wahabi Zubair. You first lie or you dont now difference between muqallid and gair muqallid. Why I tell that Zubair is modified wahabi because he dont agree with Albani in full. He differ from Albani in some things. But the problem in Wahabis are that every molvi dont like other molvi even if wahabi.

It confirmed that you are ignorant and didnt read my post. The wrong actions that I point have no correct answer and the video you show are of a strange man. I will tell you video number and then give the correction. Many answer not in your video.

Video number 1

Just blah blah trying to tell that he from right group. No answer for my post and so useless for me. He is praising himself and his group as if they are even better than Sahaba nauzobillah.

Video number 2

He tells about Takbeer tehrima which every one know but he dont tell answer to my point. I again tell my point.

The action of saying Takbeer e Tahrima loudly in salah and muqtadis should say it silently is no where present in any hadith. Ghair muqalids again follow a fiqh and Imams [rah] here, or should I say follow them without it being in the hadith even.

No answer to my point in this video and he then goes to next step without telling that.


Video number 3

He says that Hadees of hands on chest which I tell the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah student Ibn Qayyim and also muqallid view.


لا يصلح للاستدلال . وذهب الشافعية . قال النووي وبه قال الجمهور إلى أن الوضع يكون تحت صدره فوق سرته . وعن أحمد روايتان كالمذهبين , ورواية ثالثة أنه يخير بينهما ولا ترجيح وبالتخيير قال ... وعن مالك روايتان إحداهما يضع تحت صدره والثانية يرسلهما ولا يضع إحداهما على الأخرى

Translation:
According to Imam Abu Hanifa, Sufyan al Thawri, Ishaq bin Rahwaih, Abu Ishaq, al Marwazi, the hands should be folded below the navel, according to Imam Shafi (the hadith regarding tying hands below navel) is Weak and cannot be taken as proof, In the Shafi’I school as Imam Nawawi (Rahimuhullah) said: The vast majority of scholars are of the opinion that Hands should be tied “BELOW THE CHEST” but above navel, There are 2 statements narrated from Imam Ahmed bin hanbal and according to another third he does not give preference to any of the two (i.e. one has choice to place them below the navel of above the navel under chest), from Imam Malik there are also 2 sayings narrated one of which is that hands should be tied “BELOW THE CHEST” and the second is that Hands should be left free
[Ibn Qayyim in Awn al Ma’bud, Volume No.1, Page No. 275]


Ibn Qayyim states again:

ويكره أن يجعلهما على الصدر ، وذلك لما روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه نهى عن التكفير وهو وضع اليد على الصدر

Translation: 'It is makrooh (disliked) to place the hands on the chest in view of the narration that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) forbade At-takfeer, which is to place the hands on the chest.'

(Ibn Qayyim in Bada'i al Fawa'id, Volume No. 2, Page No. 69, Published by Maktaba al Mishqat)

Majority of scholars agree that hands should be tied beneath the navel and even Shafi'i and Hanbli school prsrcibes hands "BELOW CHEST"

Still if you want to touch chest because Hadees in Imam Ahmed then ok. I can agree with you about this.

If he is telling hadees from Imam Ahmed and Imam Jawzi and Imam Khuzaimah and then he will later on tell Imam Hibbani then why dont he also follow the rest of Hadees which they tell in their books about intercession, mawlid and many other things. If you want Baseem then I can tell you Hadees from these people than you will be shocked because they favouring my Islamic beliefs. If you want then tell me and I will tell you which Hadees.


Video number 4

He translate Hadees wrongly and tells that elbows should be touched which is wrong.

In Sahih Bukhari chapter 12 number 706

Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd: The people were ordered to place the right hand on the left forearm in the prayer. Abu Hazim said, "I knew that the order was from the Prophet ."

He then tells Hadees of Abu Dawud and translates in wrong way. I tell you the easy way for translation if you dont know is to use an online Arabic to English translator like google.

Sa'id ساعد means forearm

And he interprting to touch elbow and this is wrong.

Elbow means (Koo') كوع

Then he also use word الذراع (Az-zira) in Hadees which means cubit and tells that it is zira and skips the az before zira.

ذراع (Zira) means arm which is above elbow and which is wrong meaning.

Cubit means from just below elbow to tip of middle finger and it is an old way of measuring size. It is an ancient measure of length based on the length of the forearm.

So in no Hadees word elbow or koo' is used but real wahabis touch their elbows and also the tips of thumb and index finger touches the arm.

I think looking at Zubair I tell you one Hadees and you tell what wrong from his head dress.

Abu Dawud chapter 32 number 4067

Narrated Ali ibn Rukanah: Ali quoting his father said: I heard the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) say: The difference between us and the polytheists is that we wear turbans over caps.

Basim when you meet Zubair tell him to wear turban over cap and not this red cloth.


Video 5 & 6

He tells about Ameen in detail but then makes his own interprtation for the point that I am telling. I tell you my points again which he dont mention.

Again in salah saying Sana'h and Tawooz silently is a fiqh issue, Ghair muqalids do taqleed of Imams.

He then interprts Hadees wrongly according to his wish and belief about using Ameen for siri namaz and silently in jari namaz.

In Salah of fajr , magrib , Esa the muqtadi saying ameen loudly and not saying it in Zuhr salah is again not in any hadith. This is practised by ghair muqalids and they again follow fiqh on this issue.

He tells two Hadees for Ameen in final minutes of video 6 and continues in video 7 and tells that one Hadees is for siri namaz and other is for jarri namaz and he makes it by himself. The truth is that there is no distinction about siri namaz and jarri namaz for Ameen in those Hadees and its a fiqah issue and decided by muqallids in fiqah which these wahabis copy and follow.

Video 7

Then he tells that saying Bismillah before the second surah after completing surah faitha is from Hadees and makes it himself. He tells that once a surah was revealed and Bismillah had to be said so also in namaz after surah fatiha one should say Bismillah before next surah. So it is clear that there is no clear Hadees and this is also copied by wahabis from muqallid fiqahs interprtation.

At 7 minute of this video he also tells that he dont agree with Albani about not saying any surah after surah fatiha in third and fourth rakat. So he even telling Albani wrong and so he is making some different group of wahabism.


But about Rafay Aadain he dont know that it was abrogated and I tell you by link. My point was

Is it proved from any hadith that Rafayadein was done by Prophet (saw) throughout his life , not even a single sahih hadith exists but muslims perform it and have this aqeeda.Remember I am asking about proof that if was performed through his life not the act,but the beliefs

Proofs of abrogation of Rafulyadein from 40 + hadiths
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=504&CATE=2


All unbiased Muslims who are in pursuit of the truth will understand after having studied this short treatise, that the Hanafi practice of refraining from Rafa’ Yadain is not based on only rational/logical arguments, but is the product of authentic narrational evidence (Ahaadith). In view of the validity of the arguments and grounds of the Hanafi Mathhab, there is no controversy among the followers of the four Madhhabs on this issue. Each one follows the teachings of his Mathhab without attempting to denigrate the followers of the other Mathaahib.

Only followers of baatil such as the modernist Najdis, are bigoted in the matter of valid ikhtilaafaat (differences) based on Haqq (Truth). It is their baatil which constrains them to embark on their pernicious exercises of disparaging Al-Imaam Al-A’zam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayhi) in particular. But the Truth cannot be suppressed for too long.

"Truth has come and falsehood has perished. Verily falsehood (by its very nature)is perishable” (Holy Qur’aan)



Video 8

In this video he revealing his true racist face. He at 1:24 minutes blames Pathans that they not do proper Ruku. How can he blame all Pathans if he saw someone doing this.


He then also changes and interprts Hadees of Abu Dawud at 2:25 and makes his own theory.


I tell the right translation of those Hadees


Abu Dawud chapter 27 number 3823


Narrated Anas ibn Malik: When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was brought some old dates, he began to examine them and remove the worms from them.

3824
Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuTalhah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was brought some dates which contained worms. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect as the previous (Number 3823)


He wrongly imitating in a street person way and showing that Last Messenger peace be upon him is throwing dates in a strange manner. He is doing sin by doing such acting and telling that Last Messenger was throwing dates like a bad-tahzeeb person nauzobillah. I cant watch more video of this Zubair as I am angry on him because he doing such wrong actions. He should be sorry for the wrong imitation that he doing.

Show me some video of some sensible person and not this abu jahil. None of my points had been answered. It confirm that wahabi r biddati.


May Allah guide you to right path.

 

[Cheeko]

For Najdis I have one more Hadees and you judge and understand the reason why najdis want to change our namaz. Is it because they were cursed after every namaz.

Narrated Abu Bakr bin 'Abdur Rahman Ibn Harith bin Hisham and Abu Salama bin 'Abdur Rahman: Abu Huraira used to say Takbir in all the prayers, compulsory and optional -- in the month of Ramadan or other months. He used to say Takbir on standing for prayer and on bowing; then he would say, "Salmi'a-l-lahu Liman hamida," and before prostrating he would say "Rabbana walaka-l-hamd." Then he would say Takbir on prostrating and on raising his head from the prostration, then another Takbir on prostrating (for the second time), and on raising his head from the prostration. He also would say the Takbir on standing from the second Rak'a. He used to do the same in every Rak'a till he completed the prayer. On completion of the prayer, he would say, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is! No doubt my prayer is closer to that of Allah's Apostle than yours, and this was His prayer till he left this world." And Abu Huraira said, "When Allah's Apostle raised his head from (bowing) he used to say "Sami' a-l-lahu Liman hamida, Rabbana walakal-hamd." He Would invoke Allah for some people by naming them: "O Allah! Save Al-Walid bin Al-Walid and Salama bin Hisham and 'Aiyash bin Abi Rabi'a and the weak and the helpless people among the faithful believers O Allah! Be hard on the tribe of Mudar and let them suffer from famine years like that of the time of Joseph." In those days the Eastern section of the tribe of Mudar was against the Prophet.

I tell why one of my points raised that no dua after namaz by wahabi. Is it because they afraid that people will do sunnah of Last Messenger peace be upon him and curse Mudar tribe.

Not to make Dua after reading Farz Salah which is done by ghair muqalids is a new innovation of modern times, its no where proved from a single Sahih or even mawdo hadith.


Allah knows best.

 

[basim973]

Basim above in one post you told that your brother listend some Makki sahab who is Hanfi and now you showing video of modified Wahabi Zubair. You first lie or you dont now difference between muqallid and gair muqallid. Why I tell that Zubair is modified wahabi because he dont agree with Albani in full. He differ from Albani in some things. But the problem in Wahabis are that every molvi dont like other molvi even if wahabi.

It confirmed that you are ignorant and didnt read my post. The wrong actions that I point have no correct answer and the video you show are of a strange man. I will tell you video number and then give the correction. Many answer not in your video.

Video number 1

Just blah blah trying to tell that he from right group. No answer for my post and so useless for me. He is praising himself and his group as if they are even better than Sahaba nauzobillah.

Video number 2

He tells about Takbeer tehrima which every one know but he dont tell answer to my point. I again tell my point.

The action of saying Takbeer e Tahrima loudly in salah and muqtadis should say it silently is no where present in any hadith. Ghair muqalids again follow a fiqh and Imams [rah] here, or should I say follow them without it being in the hadith even.

No answer to my point in this video and he then goes to next step without telling that.


Video number 3

He says that Hadees of hands on chest which I tell the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah student Ibn Qayyim and also muqallid view.


لا يصلح للاستدلال . وذهب الشافعية . قال النووي وبه قال الجمهور إلى أن الوضع يكون تحت صدره فوق سرته . وعن أحمد روايتان كالمذهبين , ورواية ثالثة أنه يخير بينهما ولا ترجيح وبالتخيير قال ... وعن مالك روايتان إحداهما يضع تحت صدره والثانية يرسلهما ولا يضع إحداهما على الأخرى

Translation:
According to Imam Abu Hanifa, Sufyan al Thawri, Ishaq bin Rahwaih, Abu Ishaq, al Marwazi, the hands should be folded below the navel, according to Imam Shafi (the hadith regarding tying hands below navel) is Weak and cannot be taken as proof, In the Shafi’I school as Imam Nawawi (Rahimuhullah) said: The vast majority of scholars are of the opinion that Hands should be tied “BELOW THE CHEST” but above navel, There are 2 statements narrated from Imam Ahmed bin hanbal and according to another third he does not give preference to any of the two (i.e. one has choice to place them below the navel of above the navel under chest), from Imam Malik there are also 2 sayings narrated one of which is that hands should be tied “BELOW THE CHEST” and the second is that Hands should be left free
[Ibn Qayyim in Awn al Ma’bud, Volume No.1, Page No. 275]


Ibn Qayyim states again:

ويكره أن يجعلهما على الصدر ، وذلك لما روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه نهى عن التكفير وهو وضع اليد على الصدر

Translation: 'It is makrooh (disliked) to place the hands on the chest in view of the narration that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) forbade At-takfeer, which is to place the hands on the chest.'

(Ibn Qayyim in Bada'i al Fawa'id, Volume No. 2, Page No. 69, Published by Maktaba al Mishqat)

Majority of scholars agree that hands should be tied beneath the navel and even Shafi'i and Hanbli school prsrcibes hands "BELOW CHEST"

Still if you want to touch chest because Hadees in Imam Ahmed then ok. I can agree with you about this.

If he is telling hadees from Imam Ahmed and Imam Jawzi and Imam Khuzaimah and then he will later on tell Imam Hibbani then why dont he also follow the rest of Hadees which they tell in their books about intercession, mawlid and many other things. If you want Baseem then I can tell you Hadees from these people than you will be shocked because they favouring my Islamic beliefs. If you want then tell me and I will tell you which Hadees.


Video number 4

He translate Hadees wrongly and tells that elbows should be touched which is wrong.

In Sahih Bukhari chapter 12 number 706

Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd: The people were ordered to place the right hand on the left forearm in the prayer. Abu Hazim said, "I knew that the order was from the Prophet ."

He then tells Hadees of Abu Dawud and translates in wrong way. I tell you the easy way for translation if you dont know is to use an online Arabic to English translator like google.

Sa'id ساعد means forearm

And he interprting to touch elbow and this is wrong.

Elbow means (Koo') كوع

Then he also use word الذراع (Az-zira) in Hadees which means cubit and tells that it is zira and skips the az before zira.

ذراع (Zira) means arm which is above elbow and which is wrong meaning.

Cubit means from just below elbow to tip of middle finger and it is an old way of measuring size. It is an ancient measure of length based on the length of the forearm.

So in no Hadees word elbow or koo' is used but real wahabis touch their elbows and also the tips of thumb and index finger touches the arm.

I think looking at Zubair I tell you one Hadees and you tell what wrong from his head dress.

Abu Dawud chapter 32 number 4067

Narrated Ali ibn Rukanah: Ali quoting his father said: I heard the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) say: The difference between us and the polytheists is that we wear turbans over caps.

Basim when you meet Zubair tell him to wear turban over cap and not this red cloth.


Video 5 & 6

He tells about Ameen in detail but then makes his own interprtation for the point that I am telling. I tell you my points again which he dont mention.

Again in salah saying Sana'h and Tawooz silently is a fiqh issue, Ghair muqalids do taqleed of Imams.

He then interprts Hadees wrongly according to his wish and belief about using Ameen for siri namaz and silently in jari namaz.

In Salah of fajr , magrib , Esa the muqtadi saying ameen loudly and not saying it in Zuhr salah is again not in any hadith. This is practised by ghair muqalids and they again follow fiqh on this issue.

He tells two Hadees for Ameen in final minutes of video 6 and continues in video 7 and tells that one Hadees is for siri namaz and other is for jarri namaz and he makes it by himself. The truth is that there is no distinction about siri namaz and jarri namaz for Ameen in those Hadees and its a fiqah issue and decided by muqallids in fiqah which these wahabis copy and follow.

Video 7

Then he tells that saying Bismillah before the second surah after completing surah faitha is from Hadees and makes it himself. He tells that once a surah was revealed and Bismillah had to be said so also in namaz after surah fatiha one should say Bismillah before next surah. So it is clear that there is no clear Hadees and this is also copied by wahabis from muqallid fiqahs interprtation.

At 7 minute of this video he also tells that he dont agree with Albani about not saying any surah after surah fatiha in third and fourth rakat. So he even telling Albani wrong and so he is making some different group of wahabism.


But about Rafay Aadain he dont know that it was abrogated and I tell you by link. My point was

Is it proved from any hadith that Rafayadein was done by Prophet (saw) throughout his life , not even a single sahih hadith exists but muslims perform it and have this aqeeda.Remember I am asking about proof that if was performed through his life not the act,but the beliefs

Proofs of abrogation of Rafulyadein from 40 + hadiths
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=504&CATE=2


All unbiased Muslims who are in pursuit of the truth will understand after having studied this short treatise, that the Hanafi practice of refraining from Rafa’ Yadain is not based on only rational/logical arguments, but is the product of authentic narrational evidence (Ahaadith). In view of the validity of the arguments and grounds of the Hanafi Mathhab, there is no controversy among the followers of the four Madhhabs on this issue. Each one follows the teachings of his Mathhab without attempting to denigrate the followers of the other Mathaahib.

Only followers of baatil such as the modernist Najdis, are bigoted in the matter of valid ikhtilaafaat (differences) based on Haqq (Truth). It is their baatil which constrains them to embark on their pernicious exercises of disparaging Al-Imaam Al-A’zam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayhi) in particular. But the Truth cannot be suppressed for too long.

"Truth has come and falsehood has perished. Verily falsehood (by its very nature)is perishable” (Holy Qur’aan)



Video 8

In this video he revealing his true racist face. He at 1:24 minutes blames Pathans that they not do proper Ruku. How can he blame all Pathans if he saw someone doing this.


He then also changes and interprts Hadees of Abu Dawud at 2:25 and makes his own theory.


I tell the right translation of those Hadees


Abu Dawud chapter 27 number 3823


Narrated Anas ibn Malik: When the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was brought some old dates, he began to examine them and remove the worms from them.

3824
Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuTalhah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was brought some dates which contained worms. He then mentioned the rest of the tradition to the same effect as the previous (Number 3823)


He wrongly imitating in a street person way and showing that Last Messenger peace be upon him is throwing dates in a strange manner. He is doing sin by doing such acting and telling that Last Messenger was throwing dates like a bad-tahzeeb person nauzobillah. I cant watch more video of this Zubair as I am angry on him because he doing such wrong actions. He should be sorry for the wrong imitation that he doing.

Show me some video of some sensible person and not this abu jahil. None of my points had been answered. It confirm that wahabi r biddati.


May Allah guide you to right path.

My humble request to you brother, please watch your mouth. Every word you utter from your mouth, you 'll be held accountable in the court of Allah (SWT) who will cease our tongues and only allow it to speak the haq. Our body parts will be given power of speech and they 'll tell that what have been doing with them.

Talking about the hanfi alim first and a alim Tauseef-ur-Rehman and now this alim, why r so eager to put labels on ppl without listening and comparing their talks with the principles (the quran and the sunnah) of islam and use loose tongue so quickly.

This life is our only chance donot waste this in judging ppl and putting labels on. I repeat again my message is simple learn the principles of islam and get a good thing from even a shitan if it coincide with the principles of islam and reject a thing said by the ideal scholar if it clashes with the principle of islam.

May Allah guide us all.

 

[sngilani]

Most people often mistake Sufism as a sect of Islam. Sufism is more accurately described as an aspect or dimension of Islam. Sufi orders (Tariqas) can be found in Sunni, Shia and other Islamic groups. Ibn Khaldun, the 14th century Arab historian, described Sufism as:

‘’Sufism is dedication to worship, total dedication to Allah most High, disregard for the finery and ornament of the world, abstinence from the pleasure, wealth, and prestige sought by most men, and retiring from others to worship alone.’’
Ibn Khaldun, quoted in Keller, Nuh Ha Mim, The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam, www.masud.co.uk, 1995.

 

[basim973]

Most people often mistake Sufism as a sect of Islam. Sufism is more accurately described as an aspect or dimension of Islam. Sufi orders (Tariqas) can be found in Sunni, Shia and other Islamic groups. Ibn Khaldun, the 14th century Arab historian, described Sufism as:

‘’Sufism is dedication to worship, total dedication to Allah most High, disregard for the finery and ornament of the world, abstinence from the pleasure, wealth, and prestige sought by most men, and retiring from others to worship alone.’’
Ibn Khaldun, quoted in Keller, Nuh Ha Mim, The Place of Tasawwuf in Traditional Islam, www.masud.co.uk, 1995.

we r so good at quoting things from every where but the quran and the hadith. Some islamic things r in sufism but that does not make it islam, like there are many common thing in islam and Christianity but that does not make Christianity Islam....try 2 get my point, if u wana prove that sufism is in islam then please give references from the quran and the hadith.
Who was the first sufi in the time of the prophet (pbuh) and from his followers after his death.?
The for-father of sufi, Abdul-Qadir Jilani's book Guniyat-ul-Talbeen, please read it.

May Allah guide us all.

 

[basim973]

Shitan is our enemy no1. His attacks to divert ppl from the right path has always been the same. In Tafseer-Ibne-Kathir, how idel worship was ever first started is explained. After Prophet Nooh (PBUH), in a community of ppl were deceived by shitan that he 'll make pictures of some of the dead pious ppl from the community is the past, so that it will remind the living ppl the good teachings and deeds of the dead ppl. Time passes on, later shitan put ideas in ppl hear that pictures are getting fade lets make status. Time passes on, after couple of generations, ppl 4got the true reality of the ppl in the status and started thinking that their forfathers used to used them as wasila for their demands to the Lord, and so on.

Few years back a Pakistani student stabbed an news paper publisher in Genmany for (catroon publishing event), he was captured by the police and was killed in the jail. His dead body was brought and buried in pakistan (it was a big famous janazah). I was a shopkeep who i knew for some time put a picture of that student in his shop behind his seat on the wall. After some time (my be couple of generations) his sons will 4get the reality and think of this student a peer, baba or sufi etc. After about 6 months, the father of that student made an appeal (published in islam newspaper in rawalpindi) to the govt that some jali peer is had been threating him that they r going to the body of his son out and burry him somewhere else and then they will make shrine on it bcaz that student was their peer and the dead didn't even know that.

A brother asked a question on this forum abt the Ali Hajwari, Moeen-ud-Din Chicshti (rehmat Allah alhey). All we know about these is words of mouths and stories written in books (may be true and may be false) etc. SHitan's attacks are still the same only we r 4getting his tricks and falling into his traps again and again.

Please, my brothers in islam think carefully and question and research on every thing u get on the name of deen. If a thing is not mentioned in the quran and in the hadith then what is the guarantee that this thing is true or not?

May Allah Guide us all

 

[sngilani]

we r so good at quoting things from every where but the quran and the hadith. Some islamic things r in sufism but that does not make it islam, like there are many common thing in islam and Christianity but that does not make Christianity Islam....try 2 get my point, if u wana prove that sufism is in islam then please give references from the quran and the hadith.
Who was the first sufi in the time of the prophet (pbuh) and from his followers after his death.?
The for-father of sufi, Abdul-Qadir Jilani's book Guniyat-ul-Talbeen, please read it.

May Allah guide us all.

By saying this you cannot prove that a strict version of Islam is the only one correct and others are non-islam. Wahabism and other strict Islamic versions only stress on a bunch of rituals. They have always denied the inner purity and sense of cleaniness of Islam. They always remain fearful from God rather than loving Him. Where as Sufi tries to reach a place near to God where there is no difference remain between him and God.

 

[Cheeko]

My humble request to you brother, please watch your mouth. Every word you utter from your mouth, you 'll be held accountable in the court of Allah (SWT) who will cease our tongues and only allow it to speak the haq. Our body parts will be given power of speech and they 'll tell that what have been doing with them.

Talking about the hanfi alim first and a alim Tauseef-ur-Rehman and now this alim, why r so eager to put labels on ppl without listening and comparing their talks with the principles (the quran and the sunnah) of islam and use loose tongue so quickly.

This life is our only chance donot waste this in judging ppl and putting labels on. I repeat again my message is simple learn the principles of islam and get a good thing from even a shitan if it coincide with the principles of islam and reject a thing said by the ideal scholar if it clashes with the principle of islam.

May Allah guide us all.

Before requesting me you request this Zubair to stop telling wrongly. I tell you video after video in points where he wrong. He tell that Ibn Qayyim wrong and tell that Albani wrong. Also the najdi follower of Ibn Qayyim will tell after listening him that he wrong and najdi follower of Albani will tell that he wrong. You tell me where I tell wrong in my video to video points. He tellling wrongly video after video and then in video 8 he cross all limits and tells wrong translation of Hadees at 2:25 minutes and then most badly imitates the Last Messenger peace be upon him in a misbehaving action. I tell him to apologize with the whole Muslim world or his misbehavement.

What is wrong should be told wrong and they are not god that they cant be wrong. You making them like infallible that they cant be wrong. You are becoming shameless in love of these people. You not accepting that they r humans and they can make mistakes which I telling point by point.

I told you Hadees about najdis and you are not even reading Hadees of Sahih Bukhari and you telling that you ahle haadees. What ahle hadees you are.

May Allah guide us Ameen.

 

[Cheeko]

Shitan is our enemy no1. His attacks to divert ppl from the right path has always been the same. In Tafseer-Ibne-Kathir, how idel worship was ever first started is explained. After Prophet Nooh (PBUH), in a community of ppl were deceived by shitan that he 'll make pictures of some of the dead pious ppl from the community is the past, so that it will remind the living ppl the good teachings and deeds of the dead ppl. Time passes on, later shitan put ideas in ppl hear that pictures are getting fade lets make status. Time passes on, after couple of generations, ppl 4got the true reality of the ppl in the status and started thinking that their forfathers used to used them as wasila for their demands to the Lord, and so on.

Few years back a Pakistani student stabbed an news paper publisher in Genmany for (catroon publishing event), he was captured by the police and was killed in the jail. His dead body was brought and buried in pakistan (it was a big famous janazah). I was a shopkeep who i knew for some time put a picture of that student in his shop behind his seat on the wall. After some time (my be couple of generations) his sons will 4get the reality and think of this student a peer, baba or sufi etc. After about 6 months, the father of that student made an appeal (published in islam newspaper in rawalpindi) to the govt that some jali peer is had been threating him that they r going to the body of his son out and burry him somewhere else and then they will make shrine on it bcaz that student was their peer and the dead didn't even know that.

A brother asked a question on this forum abt the Ali Hajwari, Moeen-ud-Din Chicshti (rehmat Allah alhey). All we know about these is words of mouths and stories written in books (may be true and may be false) etc. SHitan's attacks are still the same only we r 4getting his tricks and falling into his traps again and again.

Please, my brothers in islam think carefully and question and research on every thing u get on the name of deen. If a thing is not mentioned in the quran and in the hadith then what is the guarantee that this thing is true or not?

May Allah Guide us all

You are telling strange things. I worry for najdis that they will make their religious people as gods one day. Its just been 200 years and they r like this. Sufis are there since 1400 years but most people not calling them gods. Every one calling them creation of Allah. Every one telling that worship is only for Allah.

Have any person told you to worship a sufi. If not then stop telling your lies. One day you will tell not put photo of Jinnah because Pakistanis will worship him. What type of mental being you have. Are you normal human being. I have doubt for your mental being now.

May Allah guide us Ameen.

 

[basim973]

By saying this you cannot prove that a strict version of Islam is the only one correct and others are non-islam. Wahabism and other strict Islamic versions only stress on a bunch of rituals. They have always denied the inner purity and sense of cleaniness of Islam. They always remain fearful from God rather than loving Him. Where as Sufi tries to reach a place near to God where there is no difference remain between him and God.

((My ummah will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them will be in the Fire except one?)), [Saheeh Muslim, no.976]
The prophet(pbuh) left us on one islam and that was and still is the true version of islam..........there was on sufism then nor now. Choice is yours fall into the traps of shitan or hold the true two sources of islam (quran and sunnah).

 

[Cheeko]

((My ummah will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them will be in the Fire except one?)), [Saheeh Muslim, no.976]
The prophet(pbuh) left us on one islam and that was and still is the true version of islam..........there was on sufism then nor now. Choice is yours fall into the traps of shitan or hold the true two sources of islam (quran and sunnah).

He already telling you he want to go where. He also telling you to come. You want to go to the jannat of dajjal then congratulation.

May Allah guide you Ameen.

 

[basim973]

You are telling strange things. I worry for najdis that they will make their religious people as gods one day. Its just been 200 years and they r like this. Sufis are there since 1400 years but most people not calling them gods. Every one calling them creation of Allah. Every one telling that worship is only for Allah.

Have any person told you to worship a sufi. If not then stop telling your lies. One day you will tell not put photo of Jinnah because Pakistanis will worship him. What type of mental being you have. Are you normal human being. I have doubt for your mental being now.

May Allah guide us Ameen.

Making pictures of living things:
"Allah , Most High said: "And who is more unjust than those who try to create the likeness of My creation? Let them create an atom, or let them create a wheat grain, or let them create a barley grain." (Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim)

Saying of Hazrat Ali on pictures and graves:
On the authority of Abul Hayaaj Al-Asadi, it is reported that `Ali (ra) said to him: "Shall I not send you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah's Messenger

?

"Do not leave any image without erasing it, nor any elevated grave without leveling it to the ground." (Narrated by Muslim)




Dear Brother only research, understand and follow the above two Hadiths. InshaAllah the sufism is out of your mind and set you free from the stuck up labels for muslims.


May Allah guide us all.


​

 

[basim973]

He already telling you he want to go where. He also telling you to come. You want to go to the jannat of dajjal then congratulation.

May Allah guide you Ameen.

My brother,
please donot get personal and get he hatred out of your mind this is stopping you to see and accept the truth.

For Allah's sake read, researh, think and seek Allah's help.
May Allah guide us all

 

[sngilani]

My brother,
please donot get personal and get he hatred out of your mind this is stopping you to see and accept the truth.

For Allah's sake read, researh, think and seek Allah's help.
May Allah guide us all

You are trying to explain Islam what u think is right. There is no such thing in Quran or sunna. You people spread hatred and call others muslims as non-musims. You are the followers of shaitan and terrorist. You terrorise people and encouage others to call them non-muslims and kill them. You are followers of Kharjee's. Islam is spread by Sufis of Islam called 'Olya Allah''. You should open your eyes and see the inside of your heart. Do'nt follow rituals, try to follow the essence of islam.
.

 

[Pakistani1947]

My brother,
please do not get personal and get he hatred out of your mind this is stopping you to see and accept the truth.

For Allah's sake read, reseach, think and seek Allah's help.
May Allah guide us all

Dear Basim, I have been reading your conversation with opponent party. I appreciate your patient and "Sabar". What ever you are saying is with the backing of Quraan and Hadeeth. In response, when they have no logical reply they would start personal attacks on you.

May Allah give you health and courage and best of reward for this Jihad. (Aameen)

 

[Cheeko]

Making pictures of living things:
"Allah , Most High said: "And who is more unjust than those who try to create the likeness of My creation? Let them create an atom, or let them create a wheat grain, or let them create a barley grain." (Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim)

Saying of Hazrat Ali on pictures and graves:
On the authority of Abul Hayaaj Al-Asadi, it is reported that `Ali (ra) said to him: "Shall I not send you on a mission on which I was sent by Allah's Messenger

?

"Do not leave any image without erasing it, nor any elevated grave without leveling it to the ground." (Narrated by Muslim)




Dear Brother only research, understand and follow the above two Hadiths. InshaAllah the sufism is out of your mind and set you free from the stuck up labels for muslims.


May Allah guide us all.


​

Brother you are interprting Hadees according to najdi way. Who worship picture is doing shirk. I think this enough to explain. These Hadees for those who worship picture and grave. I explained in one of my last post but you dont read so I post again.

Proofs of building Shrines/Tombs of Prophets



It is a Sunnah to build tombs/shrines around the graves of Prophets (alaih salam) ,Salafs (RA) and Awliya al-Ikraam (rah). Although for public graveyards and ordinary muslims it is not allowed.



The First tomb in islam

Grave of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is "INSIDE" room of the house of Ayesha (ra)

The Second tomb in islam

Grave of Sayyidna Abu Bakr (RA) is in a room of the house of Ayesha (ra) buried next to Prophet (Peace be upon him)

The Third tomb in islam

Grave of Sayyidna Umar Ibnul Khattab (ra) is in a room of the house of Ayesha (ra) buried next to Prophet (Peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (ra)

So it was a practice of Sahaba to bury Prophet (As) and Caliphs not openly but inside a Room or in other words a "CONSTRUCTED SHRINE"


Answering misquotation of Hadith and Objections



Hadith states Sahih Muslim Volume 2, Book 23, Number 414
Narrated 'Urwa:

Aisha said, "The Prophet in his fatal illness said, 'Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians because they took the graves of their Prophets as places for praying."

' Aisha added, " Had it not been for that the grave of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) would have been made prominent but I am afraid it might be taken (as a) place for praying.


The above hadith is quoted for jews and christians not for muslims who took their Prophets as God, Son/daughter of God. Lets see how the classical scholars view it.



Imam Ibn Hajar al - Haytami(in his Zawajir) quotes the hadith from Ahmad, Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians; they have taken the tombs of their prophets as places of worship."


He said, "The reason for considering it an enormity is obvious

He explains, however, that, “Taking a grave as a place of worship means to pray on the grave or towards it. The prohibition, moreover, applies exclusively to the grave of someone venerated... under the two conditions:

A) that the grave is of someone who is honored and venerated;

B) and that the prayer is performed towards or on the grave with the intention of gaining the blessing of it, or out of reverence for it. (from: al-Zawajir, Reliance w21)

And this is only if one prays so close to it that if praying the prayer of those attentive (looking down), the grave would be within one's sight.
[end quote ]


Hence praying salat towards the grave or doing sajda infront of it as christians/jews used to do it is haram.No one is history of Islam took this hadith as proof of prohibiting building of tombs/shrines over Pious muslims graves.





Proof 1 of building of tombs around a grave


Quran states:

Thus did We make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: those who prevailed over their affair said,"Let us surely build a place of worship over them." (Quran 18:21)




Authentic classical Tafsir for this verse




Tafsir Number 1

Qadhi Thana Ullah Panipatti (Rahimuhullah) writes in his great Tafsir al Mazhari: After the death of Ashaab al Kahf a dispute occurred between Muslims and non-muslims, The Muslims said that they will make a Masjid over them because they were of our faith whereas the disbelievers said they will build other buildings on it where people will live….This Ayah is proving that Mosques could be made near graves of Awliya in order to say salaat in them, Tabarruk is also attained through the tombs of Awliya [Tafsir al Mazhari Volume No.7, Page No. 123-124]




Tafsir Number 2


Tafsir by Imam Bayzawi (rah) says: "From this it is understood that to erect a Mausoleum for the special people, i.e. Pious Saints and Ulema, is permissible".




Tafsir Number 3


Tafsir by Imam Fakhrud'deen Razi (rah) writes:

أن بعضهم قال: الأولى أن يسد باب الكهف لئلا يدخل عليهم أحد ولا يقف على أحوالهم إنسان. وقال آخرون: بل الأولى أن يبني على باب الكهف مسجد وهذا القول يدل على أن أولئك الأقوام كانوا عارفين بالله معترفين بالعبادة والصلاة

Translation: Some people said that the door of the cave should be closed so that nobody can enter it and the Ahwaal (of Ashab e Kahf) are kept hidden. Some people said that It is better to build a mosque at the door, this saying proves that these people were “ARIFEEN OF ALLAH WHO BELIEVED IN WORSHIPPING AND PRAYER”[Tafsir al Kabeer, Volume No. 5, Page No. 475]



Imam al-Razi also said:

ثم قال تعالى: {قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُوا۴ عَلَىٰۤ أَمْرِهِمْ** قيل المراد به الملك المسلم، وقيل: أولياء أصحاب الكهف، وقيل: رؤساء البلد: {لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْهِم مَّسْجِدًا** نعبد الله فيه ونستبقي آثار أصحاب الكهف بسبب ذلك المسجد

Translation: And when Allah said {Those who prevailed over their affair** this refers to the “MUSLIM RULER” or the Awliya of Ashaab al Kahf (i.e. their momineen friends) or the leaders of town. {We will surely build a Mosque over them** so that we can “WORSHIP ALLAH” in it and due to it we will “PRESERVE THE RELICS OF ASHAAB AL KAHF”[Tafsir al-Kabeer, 5/475]





Tafsir Number 4

In "Tafseer Roohul Bayaan", Vol. 3, according to the verse: "To build over the graves of the Ulema, Awliya and the Saliheen is a permissible act with this condition that the motive is that the greatness of these pious people must be made apparent so that the people don't think that it is an ordinary grave."





Tafsir Number 5


Imam Hakim (Rehmatullah Alaih) said in his Tafsir

قال الذين غلبوا على أمرهم** وهم المؤمنون, وكانوا غالبين في ذلك الوقت

Translation: {Those who prevailed over their affair** refers to the “MOMINEEN” and they prevailed over this matter in that time [Tafsir al Wahidi under 18:21]





Tafsir Number 6


Imam Jalal ud-din Suyuti (Rehmatullah Alaih) and Al Muhalli (Rehmatullah Alaih) explain in Tafsir al Jalalyn:

يَتَنَـٰزَعُونَ** أي المؤمنون والكفار {بَيْنَهُمْ أَمْرَهُمْۖ** أمر الفتية في البناء حولهم {فَقَالُوۤا۴** أي الكفار {ٱبْنُوا۴ عَلَيْهِم** أي حولهم {بُنْيَـٰنًاۖ** يسترهم {رَّبُّهُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِهِمْۚ قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُوا۴ عَلَىٰۤ أَمْرِهِمْ** أمر الفتية وهم المؤمنون {لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْهِم** حولهم {مَّسْجِدًا** يصلى فيه، وفعل ذلك على باب الكهف.

Translation: They were disputing, that is, the believers and the disbelievers, among themselves their affair, the affair of the youths, with regard to building something around them [as a monument]; so they, the disbelievers, said, ‘Build over them, that is, around them, a building, to cover them up; their Lord knows them best.’ Those who prevailed regarding their affair, the affair of the youths, “NAMELY THE BELIEVERS"


We will verily set up over them, around them, a place of worship’, for prayers to be performed therein. And this indeed took place at the entrance of the cave.[Tafsir al Jalalyn, Volume No.1, Page No. 389]




Tafsir Number 7


Imam Nasafi (Rehmatullah Alaih) writes in his Tafsir al Nasafi:

قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُوا۴ عَلَىٰۤ أَمْرِهِمْ** من المسلمين وملكهم
وكانوا أولى بهم وبالبناء عليهم {لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْهِم** على باب الكهف {مَّسْجِدًا** يصلي فيه المسلمون ويتبركون

Translation: {Those who prevailed over their affair** these are the “MUSLIMS AND THE RULERS” who said to build over them i.e. on the door of cave a Masjid so that “MUSLIMS CAN PRAY IN IT AND SEEK TABARRUK” [Tafsir al Nasafi, Volume No.3, Page No. 18]





Tafsir Number 8


Imam Abu Hayyan al Andalusi (Rehmatullah Alaih) said:


وروي أن التي دعت إلى البنيان كانت كافرة أرادت بناء بيعة أو مصنع لكفرهم فمانعهم المؤمنون وبنوا عليهم مسجداً


Translation: The person who told to make a building over them was a Kafir woman, she told to make a Church over them where deeds of Kufr can take place, however the momineen stopped her and made a Masjid over there instead [Tafsir Bahr al Muheet, Volume No. 7, Page No. 158]




Tafsir Number 9


Allama Ibn Jawzi (Rehmatullah Alaih) who is considered the most strict scholar and revered highly by Salafi Muslims, he states in his Tafsir under 18:21


قال ابن قتيبة: يعني المُطاعين والرؤساء، قال المفسرون: وهم الملك وأصحابه المؤمنون اتخذوا عليهم مسجداً

Translation: Ibn Qutayba (Rehmatullah Alaih) said that the Mufasireen said: People who made Masjid were the (Muslim) King and his Momineen companions [Tafsir Zaad ul Maseer, Volume No. 5, Page No.124]






Tafsir Number 10



Imam Shahab ud-din Khafaji (Rehmatullah Alaih) wrote:

مسجد ايدل على جوازا لبناء على قبور الصلحاء ونحوهم كما اشار الي فى الكشاف وجواز الصلوة فى ذلك البناء

Translation: (Making mosque on cave) ”IS PROOF OF MAKING MOSQUES OVER THE GRAVES OF SALIHEEN” just like It is mentioned in Tafsir al Kashaaf and It is “PERMITTED” to pray inside this construction [Imam Khafaji in Inayatul Qadhi, Volume No. 6, Page No. 87, Published by Dar us Sadir, Beirut, Lebanon]





Tafsir Number 11


Mullah Ali Qari (Rehmatullah Alaih) writes:

أما من اتخذ مسجدا في جوار صالح أو صلى في مقبرة وقصد الإستظهار بروحه أو وصول أثر ما من أثر عبادته إليه لا للتعظيم له والتوجه نحوه فلا حرج عليه ألا ترى أن مرقد إسماعيل عليه السلام في المسجد الحرام عند الحطيم ثم أن ذلك المسجد أفضل مكان يتحرى المصلى لصلاته والنهي عن الصلاة في المقابر مختص بالقبور المنبوشة لما فيها من النجاسة كذا ذكره الطيبي وذكر غيره أن صورة قبر إسماعيل عليه السلام في الحجر تحت الميزاب وإن في الحطيم بين الحجر الأسود وزمزم قبر سبعين نبيا


Translation: Anyone who builds a mosque near the grave of an upright person or prays in the tomb (Maqbara) or intends to ask for help through the Ruh of that upright person or intends to seek barakah from his left overs, If he does all that without the intention of giving him Tazeem or doing tawajuh towards him ( in prayer) “Then there is nothing wrong in that, don't you see that Grave of Hadrat Ismail(A.S) is inside the Masjid ul Harram near the hateem and to Pray there is Superior than anything else ” however to pray near the graves is only forbidden when the soil becomes dirty because of Najasat of deceased… In the Hateem near Hajr al Aswad and Mizaab there are “Graves of 70 Prophets” [Mirqat, Sharh al Mishqaat, Volume No. 2, Page No. 202]





Mullah Ali Qari (Rehmatullah Alaih) also said:

وقد أباح السلف البناء على قبر المشايخ والعلماء المشهورين ليزورهم الناس ويستريحوا بالجلوس فيه


Translation: The early Muslims (Salaf) have considered it Mubah (i.e. allowed) to build over the graves of famous Mashaikh and Ulama so that people can visit them and sit there (easily) [Mirqaat Sharh al Misshqaat, Volume No. 4, Page No. 69]


So Indeed the Prophets, Mashaikh and Saliheen do not come under the prohibition because the grave of Prophet (Peace be upon him), Abu Bakr (Radhi’Allah anho), Umar (Radhi’Allah anho) and many other Prophets and Saliheen have remained “BUILT OVER”




Tafsir Number 12


Ibn khatir in his tafsir writes.


م { قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُواْ عَلَىٰ أَمْرِهِمْ لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْهِمْ مَّسْجِدًا ** حكى ابن جرير في القائلين ذلك قولين: [أحدهما] أنهم المسلمون منهم.

Translation: "When the people of the cave went into the cave, some people close to the entrance of the cave said, 'Build a mosque so we can worship Allah.' The people who said this were Muslims" [Tafsir Tabari, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Sura al-Kahf, verse 21]






Tafsir Number 13

The famous commentator of Sahih Bukhari and leading scholar in sight of Sunnis and Salafis/wahabisies.



Imam Ibn Hajr al Asqalani (rah) writes in his magnificent Fath ul Bari

In view of the fact that the Jews and Christians were taking the graves of their Prophets as their qibla for the purpose of respect, and were paying attention towards them at the time of their prayers, their graves took the position of idols. For this reason the Muslims have been forbidden from this action. However, if someone constructs a mosque near the grave of a pious person for the prupose of seeking tabarruk and not for prostration or paying attention towards them, he will never be included in this prohibition.( Ibn Hajr al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-bari, vol. 3, p. 208)





Proof 2 of building of tombs around a grave



Hadrat Umar (Ra) wish to get buried beside Tomb of Prophet(saw) in a Room


Al-Bukhari narrates in his Sahih, Book of Jana'iz:

When `Umar was stabbed he sent his son `Abd Allah with a message to `A'isha to "Ask her if I can be buried with my two companions," that is, in her room, next to the Prophet and Abu Bakr. `A'isha replied: "I wanted the spot for myself, but I shall put him [`Umar] before me today." It had been her habit that if a man from among the Companions asked her that spot she would always refuse. She herself gave the following instructions before her death: "Bury me with my lady-friends (the wives of the Prophet in al-Baqi`) [but do not bury me with the Prophet in the house, for I dislike to be held in reverence (inni akrahu an uzakka)." Ibn `Umar came back with the news, whereupon `Umar said: "NOTHING IN THE WORLD WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO ME THAN THAT RESTING-PLACE." [Narrated by al-Bukhari in his Sahih.]

Why did Hadrat Umar (ra) wanted to get buried in a room and not outside , Why is Hadrat Abu Baker (Ra) buried in a Room , A tomb is also a room built around the grave ,and it proves its a sunnah


The Tomb of Aqah Karim (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) is the greatest proof of this practice , Other tombs of Sahabas (Ra) were demolished by Al saud otherwise they too were present throughout history of islam.






Proof 3


Hadiths proving tombs of 70 Prophets (as) Tomb



5769- وعن ابن عمر أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال‏:‏
‏"‏في مسجد الخيف قبر سبعون نبياً‏"‏‏.‏
رواه البزار ورجاله ثقات‏.‏

Narrated by Ibn Umar (RA) from Prophet (salallaho alaihi wasalam) who said: In (fi) the Mosque of al-Khayf there is Qabr of 70 Prophets (together)

Imam al Haythami said that it is narrated by Al-Bazzar and all its narrators are trustworthy (i.e. Hadith is absolutely sahih)





Proof 4

Jesus Will Be Burried Next to our Prophet's (may God bless him and grant him peace) Tomb


Jesus, son of Mary, will come down to the world… He will marry, . . . live for 45 years and then die. He will be buried with me [Mohammed] in my grave. Then I and Jesus, son of Mary, will stand up in one grave between Abu Bakr and `Umar. (Mishkat-ul-Masabih, 40:4)

Jesus will marry and have a child after he returns. After he dies, the Muslims will perform his funeral prayer and bury him at the Rauza-i-Aqdas (Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Al-Qawl al-Mukhtasar fi `Alamat al-Mahdi al-Muntazar, 65)


This hadith itself proves that Hadrat Esa (aleh islam) will be buried in Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) Tomb along with him





Imam Shafi(Rehmatuallah aliye) visiting Tomb of Imam abu Hanifa (Rah)


Proof No:5

He describes his own experience about the blessings of the tomb of Imam Abū Hanīfah: I derive blessing from the person of Imam Abū Hanīfah and I visit his grave everyday. When I face a problem, I offer two optional cycles of prayer and visit his grave and (while standing) I pray to Allah to solve my problem. And I have not even left the place that my problem is solved.

Reference

►Khatīb Baghdādī has related the incident with a sound chain of transmission in his Tārīkh Baghdād (1:123)

►Ibn Hajar Haythamī, al-Khayrāt-ul-hisān fī manāqib-il-imām al-a‘zam Abū Hanīfah (p.94)

► Muhammad Zāhid Kawtharī, Maqālāt (p.381)

►Ibn ‘Ābidīn Shāmī in Radd-ul-muhtār ‘alā Durr-il-mukhtār (1:41).






Sheikh ul-Islam al-Hafiz al-Imam Nawawi (Rehmatuallah aliye)

Proof No:6


اعلم أنه ينبغي لكل من حجّ أن يتوجه إلى زيارة رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، سواء كان ذلك طريقه أو لم يكن، فإن زيارته صلى اللّه عليه وسلم من أهمّ القربات وأربح المساعي وأفضل الطلبات، فإذا توجَّه للزيارة أكثرَ من الصلاة عليه صلى اللّه عليه وسلم في طريقه، فإذا وقعَ بصرُه على أشجار المدينة وحَرمِها وما يَعرفُ بها زاد من الصلاة والتسليم عليه صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، وسألَ اللّه تعالى أن ينفعَه بزيارته صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، وأن يُسعدَه بها في الدارين، وليقلْ‏:‏ اللَّهُمَّ افْتَحْ عَليَّ أبْوَابَ رَحْمَتِكَ وَارْزُقْنِي في زِيارَةِ قَبْرِ نَبِيِّكَ صلى اللّه عليه وسلم ما رزقْتَهُ أوْلِياءَكَ وأهْلَ طَاعَتِكَ واغْفِرْ لي وارْحمنِي يا خَيْرَ مَسْؤُول


Section: Chapter regarding Visit to the Tomb of the Messenger of Allah (Salallaho alaihi wasalam), and the Dhikr made there"

It should be known that “EVERYONE” who performs the hajj should set out to visit the Messenger of Allah (Salallaho alaihi wasalam), “WHETHER IT IS ON ONE’S WAY OR NOT” because visiting him (Salallaho alaihi wasalam) is one of the most important acts of worship, the most rewarded of efforts, and best of goals. When one sets out to perform the visit, one should do much of the blessings and peace upon him (salallaho alaihi wasalam) on the way. And when one’s eye falls on the trees of Medina, and its sanctum and landmarks, one should increase sending the blessings and peace upon the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), asking Allah Most High to benefit one by one’s “VISIT TO HIM” (Allah bless him and give him peace)...and grant one felicity in this world and the next through it. One should say,"O Allah, open for me the doors of Your mercy, and bestow upon me, through the visit to the Grave of Your prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), that which You have bestowed upon Your friends, those who obey You. Forgive me and show me mercy, O Best of Those Asked" (Imam Nawawi in Kitab ul Adhkaar, Page No. 178)






Kharija ibn Zayd said: I can see myself when we were young men [boys] in the time of Uthman [ibn `Affan](ra)The strongest one of us in high jump was he who could jump over the grave of `Uthman ibn Maz`un and clear it


► cited by al-Bukhari in his Sahih chapter-title, "[Placing] a Stalk on Top of the Grave."

► Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Bari (3:256=1959 ed. 3:223 cf. Taghliq al-Ta`liq):

► "Al-Bukhari narrated it with its chain in al-Tarikh al-Saghir (1:42

It contains a proof for the licitness of raising high the grave and elevating it above the surface of the earth,

In second hadith it says high jump by sahabas (Ra) which is only possible if grave is high

Now according to above hadith Amir al-San`ani in Subul al-Salam said: "The Jumhur - vast majority - hold that the prohibition of building up and plastering graves is one of preference (tanzih) [i.e. not strictness (tahrim)] and that preference is for Qaboor of Laymen as Grave of Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) himself is elevated as stated in Sahih bukhari above ,



“BUILDING A MOUND OVER THE GRAVE...”

Under it he brings the hadith

Abu Hanifa informed us from Hammad that Ibrahim said: Someone informed me that they had seen the grave of Prophet (Peace be upon him), the grave of Abu Bakr (ra), and the grave of Umar (ra) with “mounds on top of them protruding prominently from the gournd” and on them pieces of white clay.

Imam Muhammad said: We (Ahnaaf) adhere to this, the grave is marked with a prominent mound, but it is not to be made in the form of a square and that is the “Verdict of Abu Hanifa” [Kitab ul Athaar, Page No. 145, Published by Turath Publishing]





The Wahabi sect claims that all graves should be flattened or destroyed, this is directly in opposition to Sunnah. The Hadith which they misuse refers to flattening the graves of Mushrikeen not momineen because the graves of Prophet, Abu Bakr, Umar and other sahaba is proven to be built in "MOUNDED SHAPE"



Shafi classical point of view for public graves


The great Shafi scholar and Sufi, Imam Abdul Wahab al-Sharani (rah) writes:
My teacher Ali (rah) and brother Afzal ud din (rah) used to forbid that domes should be build over graves of ordinary people and also to put the deceased in “COFFINS” and also to put sheets over their graves. They used to say that only Prophets and great awliya are deserving for domes and sheets, whereas we should be buried in the feet of people and also in their ways [Al-Anwar al Qudsiya, Page No. 593]



Imam Ibn Hibban (rah) the great Muhadith from Islaaf as Saliheen (rah) [d. 354 AH] said regarding visitation to tomb of Imam Ali Raza bin Musa (ra):


قد زرته مراراً کثيرة، وما حلّت بي شدّة في وقت مقامي بطوس، وزرت قبر علي بن موسي الرضا صلوات اﷲ علي جده وعليه، ودعوت اﷲ تعالي إزالتها عنّي إلا استجيب لي، وزالت عنّي تلک الشدّة وهذا شئ جرّبته مراراً فوجدته کذلک، أماتنا اﷲ علي محبة المصطفي وأهل بيته صلي اﷲ وسلم عليه وعليهم أجمعين.

I have done ziyarah of his tomb many times, during my stay at Tus, whenever I got into any difficulty I went to the grave of Imam Musa raza (ra) and asked Allah for the fulfillment of my need, every time I was answered and my difficulty was removed. This is such a reality that I found it to be true nomatter how many times I did it May Allah grant us death in the true love for Prophet (Peace be upon him) and his blessed Ahlul Bayt. [Ibn Abi Hatim Razi, Kitab al Thiqat, Volume No. 8, Page No. 457, Number: 14411]





Answering Objection : Prostrating towards a grave(doing sajda)


This is clearly haram even if sajda e tazeemi , Sunni muslims donot believe in doing Sajda towards a grave as Shariah prohibits it ,

it has already in miskat ul mabasih page 161 Vol 1 hadith 694


و عن عطا ء بن ىسار قال قال رسؤل الله صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلمااللهما كا تجعل قبرى وثنا يعبد اشتد غضب الله علئ قوم اتخز وا قبور انبيا حى ام مسا جد رواحما لق مرسلق

Hadrat Ata Bin Siyar narrated that Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) said that donot make my grave an idol after I die may Allah curse this nation who made graves of their Prophets (as) into prostration places (worship places)

Here above strictness forbidding prostration is narrated in the hadith , and by making places of worshipping it means making it prostration place, this has already been mentioned by imam ibn e hajar (Rah) in same thread

so any one who does Sajda to is haram, any muslims who does it is not follow ahle sunnah wal jammat



On the issue of kissing a Shrine/grave Or putting head on grave.


PROOF 1

It is also narrated that Mu`adh ibn Jabal and Bilal came to the grave of the Prophet and sat weeping, and the latter rubbed his face against it.

► Ibn Majah 2:1320,

►Ahmad,

►al-Tabarani,

►al-Subki, and Ibn `Asakir



PROOF 2

Dawud ibn Salih said: "[The governor of Madina] Marwan [ibn al-Hakam] one day saw a man placing his face on top of the grave of the Prophet. He said: "Do you know what you are doing?" When he came near him, he realized it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari. The latter said: "Yes; I came to the Prophet, not to a stone.,

► Ibn Hibban in his Sahih,

►Ahmad (5:422),

►Al-Tabarani in his Mu`jam al-Kabir (4:189) and his Awsat according to Haythami in al-Zawa'id (5:245 and 5:441 #5845 Book of Hajj, "Section on the honoring of the dwellers of Madina, chapter on placing one's face against the grave of our Master the Prophet " and #9252 Book of Khilafa, "Chapter on the leadership of those unworthy of it"),

►al-Hakim in his Mustadrak (4:515);

► both the latter and al-Dhahabi said it was sahih.

► It is also cited by al-Subki in Shifa' al-siqam (p. 126)

►and Ibn Taymiyya in al-Muntaqa (2:261f.)



Prophet's (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) Grave

Imam al-Dhahabi said: "Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about touching the Prophet's grave and kissing it and he saw nothing wrong with it. His son 'Abd Allah related this from him. If it is asked: "Why did the Companions not do this?" ]We reply: "Because they saw him with their very eyes when he was alive, enjoyed his presence directly, kissed his very hand, nearly fought each other over the remnants of his ablution water, shared his purified hair on the day of the greater Pilgrimage, and even if he spat it would virtually not fall except in someone's hand so that he could pass it over his face. Since we have not had the tremendous fortune of sharing in this, we throw ourselves on his grave as a mark of commitment, reverence, and acceptance, even to kiss it. Do you not see what Thabit al-Bunani did when he kissed the hand of Anas ibn Malik and placed it on his face saying: "This is the hand that touched the hand of the Messenger of Allah "? Muslims are not moved to these matters except by their excessive love for the Prophet , as they are ordered to love Allah and the Prophet more than their own lives, their children, all human beings, their property, and Paradise and its maidens. There are even some believers that love Abu Bakr and 'Umar more than themselves.
[Al-Dhahabi, Mu'jam al-Shuyukh (1:73 #58).]


"'Abd Allah ibn Ahmad said: "I saw my father take a hair that belonged to the Prophet , put it on his mouth, and kiss it. I believe I saw him put it on his eyes. He also dipped it in water and drank the water to obtain cure. I saw him take the Prophet's bowl (qas'a), wash it in water, and drink from it. I saw him drink Zamzam water in order to seek cure with it, and he wiped his hands and face with it." I say: Where is the quibbling critic of Imam Ahamad now?

It is also authentically established that 'Abd Allah asked is father about those who touch the pommel of the Prophet's e pulpit and touch the wall of the Prophet's e room, and he said: "I do not see any harm in it." May Allah protect us and you from the opinion of the Khawarij and from innovations!

[ Al-Dhahabi, Siyar A'lam al-Nubala' (9:457). Ch. on Imam Ah.mad, section entitled Min adabih]



Answering Objection To put pictures near grave




Narrated Aisha

Um Salama told Allah's Apostle about a church which she had seen in Ethiopia and which was called Mariya.She told him about the pictures which she had seen in it. Allah's Apostle said, "If any righteous pious man dies amongst them, they would build a place of worship at his grave and make these pictures in it; they are theworst creatures in the sight of Allah."

[sahih bukhari volume 1, number 426]

First thing to be noted is ahle sunnah wal jammat considers putting pictures at graves as haram and No muslim at any part of world does it, Worshipping (means doing sajda) according to hadith of Miskat and even Imam Ibn e Hajar (Rah) , there is no a single imam who took worshpiing as building shrines except some deviated people, As QURAN ITSELF SAYS THEY BUILD A PLACE OF WORSHIP AND EVEN MASJID R NABWI (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) is a Place of Worship ,

Making pictures is haram and has no justification

Secondly this hadith is stated for Christians and non muslims, And some people blindly quote such hadiths and verses for muslims



Answering Objection Hadith of Visiting only 3 mosques is allowed


Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Do not set out on a journey except for three mosques, i.e. Al-Masjid-Al-Haram, the Mosque of Allah's Apostle, and the Mosque of Al-Aqsa (Mosque of Jerusalem)." [Sahih bukhari volume 2,number 281]

Some people take this hadith literally to claim that going to any mosque or Shrine is Haram , According to this childish logic we see

► All scholars who go to any mosque in the world to give lectures or pay visits (which many do every year including wahabi(ghair muqaled) school scholars) are doing a haram act

Now let us see what Classical imams (rah) said regarding this issue


IMAM NAWAWI ON THIS HADITH quoting Salafs

Imam Nawawi write in Sharah of hadith 'Not to travel (for visiting) except for three mosques (Bukhari)' the true meaning of hadith, He (Nawawi) Write: In this haidth the Three Mosques status and thier high status as compaired to other mosques in the world is mentioned, because these are mosques of the Prophets (may Peace Be Upon Him) and this is why offering salat in them has greater blessing. (he writes more that many ulemas have different viewpoint regarding going to Graves and going to these three Mosques)

Near our Masters (i.e Shafi'I) right Concept is that those to whom Imam al-Harmain (Abu al-Mali Abdul Malik al-Jiyoni) and other researches of islam have permitted for them its neither Haram not Makruh to visit grave (qaboor) for Ziyarah,

According to them it means that to go for a journey for Sawab having intentions of complete and utmost blessing is only permissible for these three mosques. [Sharah Sahih Muslim, Nawawi, Volume 009, Page No. 106]



Ibn e taymiyah said

He said “It is also mustahabb (recommended) to visit the graves of the people of al-Baqee’ and the martyrs of Uhud, to pray for them and ask for forgiveness for them, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to do this, but this is prescribed for all the Muslim graves.” (Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 17/470)



Also Visiting mosque of Quba apart from 3 mosques


For those who still after views of Imam Nawawi Rah take that hadith literally ,

The hadeeth narrated in al-Saheehayn from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to come to Quba’ riding and walking.” According to another report: “and he would pray two rak’ahs there.” (narrated by al-Bukhaari and Muslim).

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also said, “Whoever purifies himself in his house then comes to the mosque of Quba’ and prays there, he will have a reward like that for ‘Umrah.”

►Narrated by Ahmad,

►al-Nasaa’i,

► Ibn Maajah

►and al-Haakim. Al-Haakim classed it as saheeh and al-Dhahabi agreed with him

► Also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6154
,
this proves that the hadith of only visiting three moques if taken literally is illogical , As Sahabas (Ra) used to Visit janat ul baqi and also visiting Masjid e Quba is recommended



Answering ObjectionOmer (radhiallah) cutting Tree where Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) took biyah fearing people will worship it

It states it is narrated that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allaah be pleased with him) heard that some people were visiting the tree under which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) had accepted the bay’ah of people, so he commanded that it should be cut down.”
[Narrated by Ibn Waddaah in his book al-Bida’ wa’l-Nahiy ‘anhaa, and by Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-Musannaf, 2/375. Its isnaad was classed as saheeh by Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 7/448]

people quote this narration to prove visiting dargahs are haram as people may worship graves so lets demolish them,

Reply

Some use this Hadith, wrongly, to prove that praying under the blessed tree was Shirk. Also, to search for Tabarruk and blessings of Nabi Muhammad (s) and pious people is Shirk and it is for this reason that Sayyidina Umar chopped the tree down.

This is a great lie and some people fabricate this to suit their own ideas and Sayyidina Umar (r) did chop the tree down, because he thought the people praying there were mushriks. (naoozbila)




That kind of a silly thought did not even occur his mind.

This incident -“as recorded in Sahih Bukhari (Kitab al-Maghazi) and Muslim (Kitab al-Imamah) -“ took place because there was controversy over which tree was the one where ba'yah was taken and reliable sources from amongst the Sahabah held that that tree was definitely the wrong tree and the original tree could no longer be located and had vanished .

Sahih Bukhari Book 52 Hadith 205
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:


When we reached (Hudaibiya) in the next year (of the treaty of Hudaibiya), not even two men amongst us agreed unanimously as to which was the tree under which we had given the pledge of allegiance, and that was out of Allah's Mercy.

The tree that the Tabi'een were visiting at the Hudaybiyyah , in the the time of Sayyidina Umar was not the real one, but it was in the same valley where the real one was.


Hence, the real reason Umar had the tree chopped down (because it was wrongly attributed to the Prophet (s).

In fact, the mysterious vanishing of the real tree by Allah (swt) shows how important it was


In the last moments of Jabir Bin Abdullah he had lost his sight he use to say: 'If I could see today I would show you where the tree was, where the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) received the Ba’ya of the companions”.

[Sahih Bukhari chap,Al-Magazi]


Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani says in the commentry: “Some people forgot where this place was like Sa’eed Bin Al-Musayib’s Father, and some knew where it was like Jabir Bin Abdullah”.


[Fathul bari, chapter Bay'a Ridwan]


Imam Tabari said:

During the period of Umar (Radiall hu anhu’s) Khalifet, he went for pilgrimage, when he passed Hudaiba' he asked:“Where is the tree under which the bay’a took place?” A person replied: 'This one”. Someone said: 'This one”. Umar (Radiall hu anhu) said: “Forget the inconvenience”.

[Tafsir Tafhemul Qur’an Surah Fata’h under verse 18 by Sayyid Maududi].





Answering Objection : Hadith of Sahih muslim on Building over the grave


Regarding Hadith of Sahih muslim And it was narrated that Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade plastering over graves, or sitting on them or building over them. Both reports were narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh

Sitting over not around ,the graves is forbidden and no one sits on as grave, I never saw a sane muslim doing it ,Similarly the Dome is like a room build around not over a grave and this has been proved from above what Prophet (صلی اللہ علیھ وآلھ وسلم) and first two caliphs(ra) of Islam were themselves buried in a room not in a open grave.
,By building over them it means structures made over them (not around ) during time of ignorance, Muslims build tomb or shrine around it



Examples of building over the grave by Christians and Jews, Muslims donot do it

This is what is meant by building over graves, Muslims build shrines around not over the graves , This is how Shrine of our Prophet Muhammad (salehalawaalihiwasalam) is, And this is how all shrines are built.Wahabis (salafis) need to take English and Arabic lessons to understand the difference between Over and Around





answering Objection: Issue of building mosque over a grave



Dawud Book 20 Hadith 3230

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed women who visit graves those who built mosques over them and erected lamps



This hadith can be explained by a simple logic that even Prophet Muhammad's grave is inside a mosque.Not in the main hall where Salat is offered but according to the most famous and respect historian Ibn khateer




Imam at-Tabari and Hafiz Ibn Kathir write, in 88 AH,
that the room of 'A'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) - where there are graves of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), Abu Bakr and 'Umar (may Allah be pleased with them)- was joined to the mosque of the Prophet

[Tareeh Tabari and Tar'ikh Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Chapter of Government of Walid ibn 'abd al-Malik]

This does not only answers right from Sunnah point of view but also fully refutes the Wahabi claims , Ahlus sunnah doesn't believes in building mosques over a grave or graves inside mosques but attaches graves to the mosque and main prayer and salat hall is still sepeared from the mosque which is a sunnah practice.

 

[Cheeko]

Dear Basim, I have been reading your conversation with opponent party. I appreciate your patient and "Sabar". What ever you are saying is with the backing of Quraan and Hadeeth. In response, when they have no logical reply they would start personal attacks on you.

May Allah give you health and courage and best of reward for this Jihad. (Aameen)

Every thing I tell is with refrence from Quran and Hadees. You will praise him because and you know that people realising that your propoganda is propoganda.

 

[sngilani]

Dear Basim, You are just fighting unneccerily. There is very minute difference between Sufi and you. Ultimate objective is the same in both. While all Muslims believe that they are on the pathway to God and hope to become close to God in Paradise — after death and after the "Final Judgment" — Sufis also believe that it is possible to draw closer to God and to more fully embrace the Divine Presence in this life.

Ref: Rumi, Mathnawi
Quoted by Shaykh 'Abd al-Halim Mahmud, former Shaykh al-Azhar