SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

[Mughal1]

Jazaa kallahu khair brothers, I am happy that we are moving towards consensus. That is the way things should be. We should not define islam in a way it cannot be defined that will only and only confuse us and divide us so it is better to have solid ground to stand upon. Likewise things that people do against islam ie things that are unlawful should be stopped by helping people understand islamic stance regarding them. Haraam kari is haraam kari no matter what we cannot condone haraam kari.

May allah have mercy on us and bess us all.

 

[atensari]

I know you will start mixing because you have no proper answer. If a Molvi and Imam is a gay then should I stop going to other Mosques and stand behind other Imam for prayers. If government is wrong then it dont means that democracy is wrong. Tell me few rules in Pakistan which are wrong.

In time of Hazrat Umar r.a. he told when there was qahat that the punishment for cutting hand for thief will be removed. He was right because sometimes changes can be made by relaxing punishment rules just like Hazarat Umar r.a. did.

This reason I voting for Imran Khan that next time he will give proper rules. I dont know who you want to be your leader or Khalifa and how you will choose him.

I told you that sufi music is also used or so many treatments. I also told that from Quran and Hadees that music for good purpose is allowed. How much effort do my beloved Last Messenger peace be upon him do for treatment of leprosy and TB. So if people doing something for treatment for diseases then is it haram. Is travelling on cars and aeroplane haram. Give something from Quran and Hadees.

Hazrat Umer relaxed one condition for specific time and area, and we relaxed everything.

Muhammad SAW came to cure sole and hearts and his tool was Quran not Music. He did not stop us from curing physical deceases

Will Imran implement Shariah?

Life of Muhammad SAW is the best example, for a Islamic revolution, first a disciplined non-violent Hizb Ullah will be created. Which will have no ambition but to ask for Allah’s rule on Allah’s earth. Aim is to arrange a mass protest just like Chief Justice restoration movement. With the demand "We will not go home until you promise Shariah". I am giving you a link if interested please listen it.

Just for your information I do listen and appreciate both Tahir ul Qadri, Imran Khan I wish if they also make efforts to restor lost Khalafah. It is professy of Muhammad SAW this will happen, when Allah knows.

 

[Mughal1]

Dear atensari, the quran is answer to the question, is islam the answer for the problems in the word?

All the diseases dr sahib is talking about are problems that face humanity as whole. If people do not learn to live like the quran guides us to do then these problem are nenevr going to go away. They never did in the past. It is all because man is enemy of man and this has to change to sense of brotherhood and unity and living for each other rather than against each other. We are stupid if we think we will get anywhere with animosity towards each other. This is the message of the quran, people must come together and work with each other for the good of each other.

Thanks for the videos, they are very infromative. regards and all the best.

 

[Cheeko]

Hazrat Umer relaxed one condition for specific time and area, and we relaxed everything.

Muhammad SAW came to cure sole and hearts and his tool was Quran not Music. He did not stop us from curing physical deceases
[video=youtube;f5oOe1R4jkA]http://www.youtube.com/w

I know you will mix all things. I also think you deaf because you cant even listen what Israr telling. I told that sufi music is used for depression and other psychology diseases. Israr is telling about heart diseases like greed and love for world and family and stuff. Still there is no place in Quran and Hadees where music for good purpose is haram. Show with refrence and not man made explanation of Israr. I also pointed out mistake and confusion of Israr on other thread yesterday and for me this man has no crediblty.

Depression and other psychology diseases r mental problems and music is also used for autism which also not a heart disease. I already told that if some other cheaper treatment available then people will go there. In Pakistan treating depression and psychology problem and autism by doctor not cheap. Which world you living.

I know that Hazrat Umar r.a. relaxed rule for one time but then it mean that whenever qahat then any ruler can relaxe rule if no other way. This is what learned from Hazrat Umar r.a.


I not telling that this government right and I just telling allowance of relaxing rule in problam circumstance. I also tell that if one Imam gay then I can go to other mosque for other imam instead of leaving Islam. But this thread not for democracy or not so I discuss some other day. I happy that you tell the word mass protest which itself mean gathering of many people on some specific agenda. This is democracy and in democracy people vote for best. You didnt tell how you choose Khalifa and who choose.

You are wrong by thinking that I listen to Tahir. No.

 

[atensari]

Dear atensari, the quran is answer to the question, is islam the answer for the problems in the word?

All the diseases dr sahib is talking about are problems that face humanity as whole. If people do not learn to live like the quran guides us to do then these problem are nenevr going to go away. They never did in the past. It is all because man is enemy of man and this has to change to sense of brotherhood and unity and living for each other rather than against each other. We are stupid if we think we will get anywhere with animosity towards each other. This is the message of the quran, people must come together and work with each other for the good of each other.

Thanks for the videos, they are very infromative. regards and all the best.

Yes Islam is the only answer to world problems.

Human get rid of imperialism, brought in democracy which hijacked by corporate world. Communism came in existence, which resulted in party dictator ship. Yet democracy is resisting but it failed to bring peace, equality. Corporate world is steering Governments to take control of available resources in other countries. Even Iqbal said that democracy is other face of imperialism.

What secularism gave to the world except free sex, teen single mothers, homosexuals, old age home, identity ignorance, and nudist?

Just to remind you 2nd video has 16 parts.

 

[Cheeko]

Yes Islam is the only answer to world problems.

Human get rid of imperialism, brought in democracy which hijacked by corporate world. Communism came in existence, which resulted in party dictator ship. Yet democracy is resisting but it failed to bring peace, equality. Corporate world is steering Governments to take control of available resources in other countries. Even Iqbal said that democracy is other face of imperialism.

What secularism gave to the world except free sex, teen single mothers, homosexuals, old age home, identity ignorance, and nudist?

Just to remind you 2nd video has 16 parts.

You are changing topic because you have no answer. He is telling east and you are telling west. I am laughing on your joking. Nobody telling that Islam is not right or is not solution.

 

[atensari]

You are changing topic because you have no answer. He is telling east and you are telling west. I am laughing on your joking. Nobody telling that Islam is not right or is not solution.

I am talking about Islam and Quran as Socio-Economical political System not just collection of moral teachings which are common in most religion and izms.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Is this Music and Poetry allowed in Islam?

You also tell that democracy is shirk. You want me to discuss about some qawali. You are filled with hatred for world and word shirk is taken by you for your own satisfaction of blaming every one mushrik. I dont understand the Panjabi so you translate then I tell if it allowed or not.

Cheeko Bhai,

Let me translate only the first line of this poetry which is enough to show the glimpse of the SHIRK in this poetry :

Panjabi line : ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????

Urdu Translation: "?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????"

Where a Muslim says : "?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????"

When we say to somebody "?? ???? ????" or " ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????" we intend to say "may Allah keep you safe from any hazard, accident or unforeseen loss". OLNY Allah has that divine power to protect someone from an accident or unforeseen loss . If somebody believe that someone other than Allah also have that divine power (Nauzobilla) then that person is committing SHIRK.When somebody arranges for a bodyguard (e.g., Zaid) to protect someone (e.g.,tahir ul qadri) , and Zaid is equipped with weapon and/or skill to be able to protect him, in case of an attack. If it is said that "Zaid you are resposible to keep tahir ul qadri safe", then there is no SHIRK since Zaid has means to try to protect tahir ul qadri.

The poet in this poetry is doing SHIRK by believing that tahir ul qadri has a divine power to protect him (Nauzobilla). It is very obvious that the poet does not intend to say in his poetry that "tahir ul qadri arrange a bodyguard to keep me safe" ("???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??" ).

Now Please read the following hadeeth rom Sahih Bukhari:

Malik al-Ashja'i reported: We, nine, eight or seven men, were in the company of the Messenger of Allah (??? ???? ???? ????) and he (??? ???? ???? ????) said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah? -while we had recently pledged allegiance. So we said: Messenger of Allah (??? ???? ???? ????), we have already pledged allegiance to you (??? ???? ???? ????). He (??? ???? ???? ????) again said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah? And we said: Messenger of Allah (??? ???? ???? ????), we have already pledged allegiance to you. He again said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah (??? ???? ???? ????)? We stretched our hands and said: Messenger of Allah (??? ???? ???? ????). we have already pledged allegiance to you. Now tell (on what things) should we pledge allegiance to you. He (??? ???? ???? ????) said I (You must pledge allegiance) that you would worship Allah only and would not associate with Him anything, (and observe) five prayers, and obey- (and he said one thing in an undertone) -that you would not beg people of anything. (And as a consequence of that) I saw that some of these people did not ask anyone to pick up the whip for them if it fell down. (Sahih Muslim Book #005, Hadith #2270)

The lesson (from the point of view of topic under discussion) learned from this hadeeth is that Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ????) took pledge from his companians (??????? ??????? ????????) that they would not associate with Allah anything (SHIRK) and that they would not beg people of anything. The companion of Prophet Muhammad knew that SHIRK is such a worst sin that there is no forgiveness for this sin (SHIRK) from Allah and as a consequences they (??????? ??????? ????????) were so careful and afraid of Allah that they did not ask anyone to pick up the whip for them if it fell down. Obviously it is not a SHIRK to ask someone to help picking a whip, but this Hadeeth shows the extra carefulness of the companion of prophet Muhammad (??????? ??????? ????????) trying not to involve in form of activity where there is slightest doubt of SHIRK.

May Allah give hidayat to this Umma and open their hearts to be able to understand the truth (Aameen)

 

[Cheeko]

I am talking about Islam and Quran as Socio-Economical political System not just collection of moral teachings which are common in most religion and izms.

I think you have no answer and thus a change of topic. Start another thread for democracy is shirk and I tell you there.

 

[Cheeko]

Cheeko Bhai,

Let me translate only the first line of this poetry which is enough to show the glimpse of the SHIRK in this poetry :

Panjabi line : رکھہ طاہر رکھہ طاہر سانو اپنی اماں وچ رکھہ طاہر

Urdu Translation: "اے طاہر ہمیں اپنی امان میں رکھہ"

Where a Muslim says : "اے الله ہمیں اپنی امان میں رکھہ"

When we say to somebody "فی امان الله" or " الله تمہیں اپنی امان میں رکھے" we intend to say "may Allah keep you safe from any hazard, accident or unforeseen loss". OLNY Allah has that divine power to protect someone from an accident or unforeseen loss . If somebody believe that someone other than Allah also have that divine power (Nauzobilla) then that person is committing SHIRK.When somebody arranges for a bodyguard (e.g., Zaid) to protect someone (e.g.,tahir ul qadri) , and Zaid is equipped with weapon and/or skill to be able to protect him, in case of an attack. If it is said that "Zaid you are resposible to keep tahir ul qadri safe", then there is no SHIRK since Zaid has means to try to protect tahir ul qadri.

The poet in this poetry is doing SHIRK by believing that tahir ul qadri has a divine power to protect him (Nauzobilla). It is very obvious that the poet does not intend to say in his poetry that "tahir ul qadri arrange a bodyguard to keep me safe" ("طاہر القادری میرے لیے باڈی گارڈ کا انتظام کر دو" ).

Now Please read the following hadeeth rom Sahih Bukhari:

Malik al-Ashja'i reported: We, nine, eight or seven men, were in the company of the Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and he (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah? -while we had recently pledged allegiance. So we said: Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم), we have already pledged allegiance to you (صلى الله عليه وسلم). He (صلى الله عليه وسلم) again said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah? And we said: Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم), we have already pledged allegiance to you. He again said: Why don't you pledge allegiance to the Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم)? We stretched our hands and said: Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وسلم). we have already pledged allegiance to you. Now tell (on what things) should we pledge allegiance to you. He (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said I (You must pledge allegiance) that you would worship Allah only and would not associate with Him anything, (and observe) five prayers, and obey- (and he said one thing in an undertone) -that you would not beg people of anything. (And as a consequence of that) I saw that some of these people did not ask anyone to pick up the whip for them if it fell down. (Sahih Muslim Book #005, Hadith #2270)

The lesson (from the point of view of topic under discussion) learned from this hadeeth is that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) took pledge from his companians (رَّضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ) that they would not associate with Allah anything (SHIRK) and that they would not beg people of anything. The companion of Prophet Muhammad knew that SHIRK is such a worst sin that there is no forgiveness for this sin (SHIRK) from Allah and as a consequences they (رَّضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ) were so careful and afraid of Allah that they did not ask anyone to pick up the whip for them if it fell down. Obviously it is not a SHIRK to ask someone to help picking a whip, but this Hadeeth shows the extra carefulness of the companion of prophet Muhammad (رَّضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ) trying not to involve in form of activity where there is slightest doubt of SHIRK.

May Allah give hidayat to this Umma and open their hearts to be able to understand the truth (Aameen)

I already replied but you missed so I reply again.

Translation of only first line that you tell is no shirk. They are telling that their sheikh keeps them in protection. A sheikh keep in protection by telling right and Islamic rules. They can go to wrong path because they are not sheikh and dont know full Islam but their sheikh tell them right thing about Allah and Islam. It is in that sense I think and if they think that Tahir will protect them instead of Allah Nauzobillah then that is shirk. But I think this is not what they praising as they are not using the word worship. You have to ask these question to Tahirs people and they will answer you better. I can only judge from what I see or hear.

If somebody tell that army keeps protection from India then is it shirk. It is clear that after Allah it is army that give protection.

I can easily understand but because you hate every one so you tell every thing shirk. I am laughing at your jokings.

May Allah guide us to the right path Ameen.

 

[Cheeko]

Some of you people telling that music is shirk some telling that lyrics is shirk and some telling that democracy is shirk and some telling that and that shirk. First you people decide what is shirk.

 

[atensari]

I already replied but you missed so I reply again.

I can easily understand but because you hate every one so you tell every thing shirk. I am laughing at your jokings.
May Allah guide us to the right path Ameen.

Keep laughing, dancing and listing music.

 

[Cheeko]

Keep laughing, dancing and listing music.

Is that crying all you can come with. I think you have accepted that you have no answer. You didnt tell this when Bush was dancing with Najdi prince in Najd. I will post video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRHLrXmqbc


May Allah guide us to the right path.

 

[atensari]

Is that all you can come with. I think you have accepted that you have no answer. You didnt tell this when Bush was dancing with Najdi prince in Najd. I will post video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRHLrXmqbc

May Allah guide us to the right path.

If dancing is wrong it is for everyone, either Najdi oor Qadri. The difference is who is spreading it on the name of Religion. Other hand Najdis are the biggest criminal of Nation. Quran is in their Language and they are making non-Muslims strategic friends.

 

[Cheeko]

If dancing is wrong it is for everyone, either Najdi oor Qadri. The difference is who is spreading it on the name of Religion. Other hand Najdis are the biggest criminal of Nation. Quran is in their Language and they are making non-Muslims strategic friends.

Good you call Najdis king and princes as criminals and I call them mushrik because they are afraid of USA and others. A muslims is only afraid of Allah and nothing else. One who accepts any other than Allah as master is mushrik for me.

The dancing of sufis is not actually wrong as it is just like exercise and a happy person just expresses his emotions. Whirlwinding actually again is good form of treatment for psychology and depression like diseases. I have already told about treatment by music and similarly whirling or dhamaal is just part of it. It is not to be done all the time but just occasionally when someone gets any psychological problems.

Your knowledge about science and treatment of psychological illlness by music and dance-like movements is not much and so you are not getting what I tell. Everything should be done with proper Islamic dress and so on. It is not farz like five times prayers. If someone wants this treatment then fine and if not then fine.

I already told you that pig insulin was used two three decades ago for insulin for sugar patients. It was allowed by Muslim scholars as other medications were very expensive and new products were not invented that time.


Can you tell me from Quran and Hadees that music and dancing cannot be used for treatment. Dear every one is not affording like you. People in Pakistan dont have money for food and how will they go for treatment from doctor. If hand cutting punishment can be left during qahat by Hazrat Umar r.a. then cheap treatment for depression should also be allowed for poverty people in these days in Pakistan.


I already told that our muslim kings in the last many centuries didnt focus on science and research and so sufis had no option but to find some treatment for poors. You should first curse those kings and malukiat if you tell that sufi music cannot be used for treatment.

May Allah help us to understand that there are 50 to 60% people in Pakistan living below poverty line Ameen.

 

[Straight]

Treatment for the psycholoigal ill people by Dance & Music

The dancing of sufis is not actually wrong as it is just like exercise and a happy person just expresses his emotions. Whirlwinding actually again is good form of treatment for psychology and depression like diseases. I have already told about treatment by music and similarly whirlwind or dhamaal is just part of it. It is not to be done all the time but just occasionally when someone gets any psychological problems. I tell that mix gatherings for this purpose is not right and mixed gatherings is wrong.

Your knowledge about science and treatment of psychological illlness by music and dance-like movements is not much and so you are not getting what I tell. Everything should be done with proper Islamic dress and also one should avoid mixed gatherings. It is not farz like five times prayers. If someone wants this treatment then fine and if not then fine.

I already told you that pig fat was used two three decades ago for insulin for sugar patients. It was allowed by Muslim scholars as other medications were very expensive and new products were not invented that time.

Can you tell me from Quran and Hadees that music and dancing cannot be used for treatment. Dear every one is not affording like you. People in Pakistan dont have money for food and how will they go for treatment from doctor. If hand cutting punishment can be left during qahat by Hazrat Umar r.a. then cheap treatment for depression should also be allowed for poor people in these days in Pakistan.

I already told that our muslim kings in the last many centuries didnt focus on science and research and so sufis had no option but to find some treatment for poors. You should first curse those kings and malukiat if you tell that sufi music cannot be used for treatment.

May Allah help us to understand that there are 50 to 60% people in Pakistan living below poverty line Ameen.

@Cheeko,

Thank you very much for prescribing the treatment for some of the psycholoigal ill people. Would you like to try the following treatment as well?

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Treatment for the psycholoigal ill people by Dance & Music

@Cheeko,

Thank you very much for prescribing the treatment for some of the psycholoigal ill people. Would you like to try the following treatment as well?

This video is funny and surprising for me. I have no depression so dont have to get any cheap or expensive treatment. I think this person is hypnotising people and this is nothing like sufi music. Sufi music takes you into trance and relaxes your tense nerves and muscles but this man is hypnotising. Science tells this is hypnotising and many people use this for other purposes. This is not sufi music or anything.

If his purpose is treating something then it cant be ruled again as shirk but I think you better ask this person and I not right person to answer dear.

 

[babadeena]

Some of you people telling that music is shirk some telling that lyrics is shirk and some telling that democracy is shirk and some telling that and that shirk. First you people decide what is shirk.

Since this is one of the post without kilometers long cut n paste and merits
to be answered:
Please visit the relevant thread, my post No.198, contains a definition and
without cut n paste, you are welcome to discuss it there.

Rest music is music, Sufi or non-sufi, and on Music there was already a long
discussion and thread, i suppose, is available.

 

[Cheeko]

Since this is one of the post without kilometers long cut n paste and merits
to be answered:
Please visit the relevant thread, my post No.198, contains a definition and
without cut n paste, you are welcome to discuss it there.

Rest music is music, Sufi or non-sufi, and on Music there was already a long
discussion and thread, i suppose, is available.

Forget what I post but since after Hazrat Adam a.s. people had been rejecting Islam and even Allah had to send a 114 surah long Quran to tell His point especially for those rejecting. I only post a small reply as compared and did when the people were telling everything shirk. So there is nothing wrong about posting long articles because I telling my point and I tell with solid proof.


Shirk is worship of other than Allah or along with Allah. So worship is only to Allah and this is the most simplest definition.


I am not interested in what you mean by shirk because you dont like Hadees but after Quran I follow Hadees books.


Dont act childish and just tell that you have no answer if you consider music for good purposes as haram and then cant justify it.

 

[babadeena]

Forget what I post but since after Hazrat Adam a.s. people had been rejecting Islam and even Allah had to send a 114 surah long Quran to tell His point especially for those rejecting.

I only post a small reply as compared and did when the people were telling everything shirk. So there is nothing wrong about posting long articles because I telling my point and I tell with solid proof.
(Since when your cut n paste has become equivalence of Quran, what kind of similitude you are giving???)

Shirk is worship of other than Allah or along with Allah. So worship is only to Allah and this is the most simplest definition.

I am not interested in what you mean by shirk because you dont like Hadees but after Quran I follow Hadees books.

(I doubt very much if you know even a,b,c of Quran, that is visible from your definition).

Dont act childish and just tell that you have no answer if you consider music for good purposes as haram and then cant justify it.

10 kilometers longs non-nonsensical posts are burning example of childish theory. Take trouble to google at this
same forum about "Music Thread", your halal and harram may have answer there.