SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

[Pakistani1947]

Quraan 8:35 ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????

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[FONT=&quot]Quraan 8:35 Their prayer at the House (of Allah. is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed." [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???
[/FONT]

 

[Cheeko]

Re: True face of sufi cult

Cheeko, you are again fooling around answer my question:



Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

Do you think Abu Huraira (???? ???? ???) would even think of doing Shytani acts like shown in this video (Nauzobillah)?

Poor najdis have been trying to justify najdism by maligning Islam. Their propoganda has been seen by the whole world and now they have unleashed their propoganda machine called anti-pakistani 1947. Who told you this is qawali or any other thing leave alone shirkia. This is not qawali and is either hypnotism or the transfer of ones current. It is proved by science that man can control and transform his electromagnetic field. Its something which science has accpeted but cant prove yet. Obviously your knowledge is lacking when it comes to science. Did you take arts.

Regarding Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. how can you tell that he was old at that time. But obviously I havent told that he listened or did any thing shirkia. You are just twisting my words.

 

[Malik495]

well i have just come to know this thread which is so active from last few days.. as usuall the topic of this thread is as clear it self as mirror.. My question is ..what kind of music is halaal in islam? answer: there is no place of music in islam thats it.. there is no sufi pop jazz or something else kind of a music is permitted in islam...

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, you are again and again fooling around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) went into Wajad after listening to Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????&am

[FONT=&quot]????? ????? ??????????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ???????????? ? ????????? ?????????? ????? ??????? ???????????[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Quraan 8:35 Their prayer at the House (of Allah. is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed." [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???[/FONT]

​

Now you are also giving out of context Ayat. In the Ayat it is clear about the prayers of the kafirs who didnt do anything but just whistling and clapping. The Muslims dont pray in this way because praying is Salat. Dhikr means remembering Allah and isnt prayer. Also in Dhikr one uses Allah's name or something Islamic. I will quote the Ayat.

And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved [8:35]


No Muslim does these sort of prayers in which there is just whistling and clapping. Zikr is not prayer but remembering Allah and is not prohibited as per the Hadees I showed you earlier.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

Now you are also giving out of context Ayat. In the Ayat it is clear about the prayers of the kafirs who didnt do anything but just whistling and clapping. The Muslims dont pray in this way because praying is Salat. Dhikr means remembering Allah and isnt prayer. Also in Dhikr one uses Allah's name or something Islamic. I will quote the Ayat.

And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved [8:35]

No Muslim does these sort of prayers.

My point is that Sufis have started immitating pre-Islamic culture.

Cheeko, you are again and again fooling around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) went into Wajad after listening to Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

 

[Cheeko]

well i have just come to know this thread which is so active from last few days.. as usuall the topic of this thread is as clear it self as mirror.. My question is ..what kind of music is halaal in islam? answer: there is no place of music in islam thats it.. there is no sufi pop jazz or something else kind of a music is permitted in islam...

Thats your view but a wrong view certainly. Music for good purpose is allowed and every one agrees with that. The debate currently is that which purpose can be said good.

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

My point is that Sufis have started immitating pre-Islamic culture.

Cheeko, you are again and again fooling around answer my question:

Originally Posted by Cheeko
Hadrat Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......





Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) went into Wajad after listening to Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.
​

Well even tawaf is a pre-Islamic culture. But that ritual has been modified and legalised. You are just not trying to read and are continuing your dirty najdi twist. I have already answered regarding Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. and it is obvious that the pain and hate in you has made you blind and mad. You arent even reading what I told. You are mixing qawali and this Hadees. Qawali is musical form of Hamd and Naat and Zikr. This creates an aura of ecstasy called wajad.

 

[sngilani]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

My point is that Sufis have started immitating pre-Islamic culture.

Cheeko, you are again and again fooling around answer my question:



Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (رضّى الله عنه) went into Wajad after listening to Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

Stop it. Do'nt spread hatred on this forum. I object strongly and demand from admin of Siasatpk to close this and similar threads permanently.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko , Do not Quote out of context hadith

Well even tawaf is a pre-Islamic culture. But that ritual has been modified and legalised. You are just not trying to read and are continuing your dirty najdi twist. I have already answered regarding Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. and it is obvious that the pain and hate in you has made you blind and mad.

No! you did not answer my question and trying to run away. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all!

Now, answer me and do not fool around.

 

[6sman]

Re: Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of kind of Bidats in Islam

I know you were trying to disapprove Qawali by quoting fabricated story from Kash-ul-Majoob. My point is that why you need "Kash-ul-Majoob to justify your point of view whereas you could easily use Authentic Hadeeths to disapprove Qawali. Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of all kind of Bidats in Islam. We should try to avoid anybody's quotes in religious matter, if we could find the answer in other Quraan and Hadeeths.

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

Actually my two posts were joined together creating this confusion. I have now separated them. Sorry for the confusion.

Salam,

You're right brother, but the reason why I did not use authentic Islamic sources (Qur'an and Sunnah) is because some people, if you tell them 'Qur'an or hadith says such and such...' they will not accept it (or alter it's meaning to suite themselves); only if you quote from their pir, murshid or shaykh would they accept, and this is indeed very very un-fortunate but true nevertheless.

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Cheeko , Do not Quote out of context hadith

No! you did not answer my question and trying to run away. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all!

Now, answer me and do not fool around.

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.


He [rah] states in his Ihya uloom ud din , vol 2, Pg 179

لأدب الرابع‏:‏ أن لا يقوم ولا يرفع صوته بالبكاء وهو يقدر على ضبط نفسه ولكن إن رقص أو تباكى فهو مباح فيجوز تحريكه‏.‏
ولو كان ذلك حراماً لما نظرت عائشة رضي الله عنها إلى الحبشة مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وهم يزفنون هذا لفظ عائشة رضي الله عنها في بعض الروايات‏.‏
وقد روي عن جماعة من الصحابة رضي الله عنهم أنهم حجلوا لما ورد عليهم سرور أوجب ذلك وذلك في قصة ابنة حمزة لما اختصم فيها على بن أبي طالب وأخوه جعفر وزيد بن حارثة رضي الله عنهم فتشاحوا في تربيتها فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم لعلي ‏”‏ أنت مني وأنا منك ‏”‏ فحجل علي وقال لجعفر ‏”‏ أشبهت خلقي وخلقي ‏”‏ فحجل وراء حجل علي وقال لزيد ‏”‏ أنت أخوناً ومولانا ‏”‏ فحجل زيد وراء حجل جعفر ثم قال عليه السلام ‏”‏ هي لجعفر لأن خالتها تحته والخالة والدة ‏”‏ وفي رواية أنه قال لعائشة رضي الله عنها ‏”‏ أتحبين أن تنظري إلى زفن الحبشة ‏”‏ والزفن والحجل هو الرقص

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of kind of Bidats in Islam

Salam,

You're right brother, but the reason why I did not use authentic Islamic sources (Qur'an and Sunnah) is because some people, if you tell them 'Qur'an or hadith says such and such...' they will not accept it (or alter it's meaning to suite themselves); only if you quote from their pir, murshid or shaykh would they accept, and this is indeed very very un-fortunate but true nevertheless.

No one doubts that Hadees and it is for those who participate in mujras. No need to use the name of any pir or anybody because the reply would hurt you.

 

[Cheeko]

Ibn E Taymiyyah on wajd

Book: Al Ubudiyyah: Being A True Slave Of Allah
Author: Ibn Taymiyah
Published: Ta-Ha Publishers
Adress: 1 Wynne Road, London,
PostCode: SW9 0BB
Country: UK

Page Number: 126
Chapter: Fana {"Oblivion"**

"An example of this is the concept of Fana {extinction of individual consciouness, recedence of the ego, obliteration of the self**. Fana is of three types:

1** The fana of the Prophets and Awliyah {Fana Fir'Rasool' & Fana Fil Awliyah** who have attained perfection.
2**The Fana of the Awliyah and the righteous peopl who are striving in the right direction even though they are not perfect.

Page Number: 127

3** The Fana of the hypocrites and heretics who liken Allah to His creation.

The first type of fana means the oblertation of the desire for anything except Allah so that a person does not love anyone or anything except Allah he does not worship anything except Him, he does not rely on anyone except Him and he deos not ask from anyone except Him. This is the sense which should be understood from the words of Seikh Abu Yazid {Al Bistami**: "I want to not to want anything except what He wants, what Pleases the beloved {Allah**." This is what is meant by the religios will of Allah. Perfection means that a man does not want love or like anything except what Allah wants loves and likes which is what He as caommanded and made wajib or mustahab. He only loves those whom Allah loves and such as the Angles, Prophets, and the righteous people. This is what is meant by their intrepration of the Ayah:



This is what is meant by their intrepration of the Ayah: "But only he will prosper who bring to Allah a sound heart." {26:89** They said its is sound and safe from evertthing ecept being a slave of Allah or everything ecvept wanting what Allah wants or everything except Loivng Allah. The meaning is the same and whether its is called fana or not it is the begining and end of Islam the foucus of entire religion."



The second type of fana is oblivion towards others which is attained by many of those who follow the path {triqah**, because their hearts are strongly attracted to remembering, wroshipping and loving Allah and distracted from noticing anyone or anything else. Nothing crosses their minds except thoughts of Allah; they are not even aware of anythng else, as was said in the interpretation of the ayah: "But there came to be a void in the heart of the mother of Musa. she was going almost to disclose his {case**, had We not strenthen her heart {with faith** ..." [28:10** They said: her heart was oblivious to ...
,

Page Number: 128

... everything except thoughts of Musa which is the kind of thing that often happens to thouse who are overwhelmed with some concern whether it be love or hope or fear - the heart is disracted from everything except that which is loved or hoped for or feared, so that it is unaware of anything else.
,


If this kind of fana overwhelms a person his focus on Allah becomes so intense that he is no longer aware of anything else, not his own existance or the dhikr he is doing and everything diminishes in his senses, every created being the person, himself and everyone else and there remains only the Lord. What is meant is that everything is diminished in persons perception, so that he longer notices or remebers anything, and is quite oblivious to what is going on around him.



If this feeling becomes so strong that the person becomes confused and can no longer make proper distinctions he may think that he is his beloved, as it was said that a man fell into the water and the one who loved him threw himself in after him. The former said: "I fell in by accident; what made you fall?" and the later replied: "I was so overwhelmed with love for you that i thought I was you."
,

The idea as caused many people to stumble so that they thought in the terms of phisical unity whereby there is no longer any difference between a person and the object of his love. This is incorrect, for the Creator can not be united with anything else without becoming somehting else altogather; ther essecne of the two things is lost when they unite, and they become a third of thing, neither this nor that as is the case when water and milk are mixed togather, or water or wine and so on. But what is loved and wanted by both becomes one, and what is hated and loathed by both becomes one, so they love ...



on page 129 ibn taymiyyah states about salafs


....... at the time of the Tabi'in, among the worshippers of Al Basra, among whom were some who would swooon or even die when they heard the Quran, such as Abu Juhayr Al Darir and Zararah Ibn Awfa the Qadi of Al Basra.


Some of the Sufi Shaykhs experience this kind of oblivios and and intoxication where they are unable to make proper distinctions, and when they are in that state they may say words which when they come round they realise are wrong

,. Such stories are reported about ...


... acetics such as Abu Yazid {al Bistami**, Abu'l Hasan Al Nuri and Abu Bakr Al Shibli and so on ...



on Page Number: 130


... unlike Abu Sulayman Al Darini, Maruf Al Khar'ki, and Al Fudayl Ibn Ayyad, let alone Al Junayd {Al Baghdadi** and so on, who remained of the sound mind throughou all their experiences and who never rell into states of oblivion or intoxication, etc. Those who have reached a level ofperfection have nothing in theri hearts except love of Allah and the desire to worship Him alone.[Book: Al Ubudiyyah: Being A True Slave Of Allahm Ta-Ha Publishers]




Ibn Taymiyyah again said again


The second category consists of those sufis whose experience of fana and intoxication (sukr) weakened their sense of discrimination, and made them utter words that they later realized to be erroneous when they became sober


► Majmu Fatawa vol. 10, pp. 220-1

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of kind of Bidats in Islam

Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti [rah]proves Raqs [dancing] in Love of Allah from Quran and Hadiths

وكيف ينكر الذكر قائما والقيام ذاكرا وقد قال الله تعالى (الذين يذكرون الله قياما وقعودا وعلى جنوبهم) وقالت عائشة رضي الله عنها كان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يذكر الله على كل أحيانه، وإن انضم إلى هذا القيام رقص أو نحوه فلا إنكار عليهم فذلك من لذات الشهود أو المواجيد وقد ورد في الحديث رقص جعفر بن أبي طالب بين يدي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لما قال له أشبهت خلقي وخلقي وذلك من لذة هذا الخطاب ولم ينكر ذلك عليه النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فكان هذا أصلا في رقص الصوفية لما يدركونه من لذات المواجيد وقد صح القيام والرقص في مجالس الذكر والسماع عن جماعة من كبار الأئمة منهم شيخ الإسلام عز الدين بن عبد السلام.

“How can one condemn making dhikr while standing, or standing while making dhikr, when Allah says, “. . . those who invoke Allah standing, sitting, and upon their sides” Qur’an 3:191. And Hazrat A`isha Siddiqa (RA) said,‘ The Prophet (SAW) used to invoke Allah at all of his times.’ Sahih Muslim, 1.282: 373 And if dancing is added to this standing, it may not be condemned, as it is of the joy of spiritual vision and ecstasy, and It is mentioned in the hadith that Ja`far ibn Abi Talib (RA) danced in front of the Prophet (Ssalallaho alaihi wasalam) when the Prophet (Salallaho alaihi wasalam) told him, ‘You resemble me in looks and in character,’ dancing from the happiness he felt from being thus addressed, and the Prophet did not condemn him for doing so, this being a basis for the legal acceptability of the Sufis dancing from the joys of the ecstasies they experience. ..Hence it is correct to stand and dance during gatherings of Dhikr and Sama according to a group of great scholars, among them being Shaykh al- Islam Izz ud-din bin Abdus Salam.”[Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti in Al-Hawi lil Fatawi, Volume No. 2, Page No. 406, Maktaba al Asriyyah Edition].

scanned page

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, Do not Run away - Answer my question

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.

Cheeko, Do not fool around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

[FONT=&quot]????? ????? ??????????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ???????????? ? ????????? ?????????? ????? ??????? ???????????[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Quraan 8:35 Their prayer at the House (of Allah. is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???[/FONT]

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Cheeko, Do not Run away - Answer my question

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

[FONT=&quot]وَمَا كَانَ صَلَاتُهُمْ عِندَ الْبَيْتِ إِلَّا مُكَاءً وَتَصْدِيَةً ۚ فَذُوقُوا الْعَذَابَ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْفُرُونَ[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Quraan 8:35 Their prayer at the House (of Allah. is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands: (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]اورکعبہ کے پاس ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجانے کے اور کچھ نہیں تھی سو عذاب سبب اس کے کہ تم کفر کرتے تھے[/FONT]

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.


Now you are the person quoting an out of context Ayat. In this Ayat it is clear about the prayers of the kafirs who didnt do anything but just whistling and clapping. The Muslims dont pray in this way because praying is Salat. Dhikr means remembering Allah and isnt prayer. Also in Dhikr one uses Allah's name or something Islamic and is not done during prayer times because during the prayer time one has to pray. I will quote the Ayat.

And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved [8:35]


No Muslim does these sort of prayers in which there is just whistling and clapping. Zikr is not prayer but remembering Allah and is not prohibited as per the Hadees I showed you earlier.



And whats your problem with me copy pasting something with references. Is it also shirk to copy paste O you misguided.

Its related to topic and to give references is a good way of discussion. You want me to debate on your conditions and this is not acceptable to me. I will debate like I wish. Who the hell are you to tell me how to debate. As long as I am not linking any Michael Jackson videos and am related to the topic the rest should be none of your business. If you want to go ahead then let me know otherwise we can stop.

 

[Cheeko]

And a few of the Hadees now with references.


Hadith

حدّثنا عبد الله حدثني أبي، ثنا عبد الصمد قال: ثنا حماد ، عن ثابت ، عن أنس قال: كانت الحبشة يزفنون بين يدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم ويرقصون ويقولون: محمد عبد صالح ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: ما يقولون؟ قالوا: يقولون: محمد عبد صالح

It is narrated by Anas (R.A) that the Habashis were present in front of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and “THEY WERE DANCING (Yarqasun)”
and saying: Muhammadun Abdun Salih (i.e. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم the righteous slave). The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) asked: What are they saying? They said: Muhammadun Abdun Salih
,
[Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume No.3, Page no. 152]
,
Note : All narrators of this hadith are those of Sahih bukhari and muslim
,
Shu’yb al Aran’ut said after this hadith:
,
إسناده صحيح على شرط مسلم
,
The Chain is “SAHIH” on the criteria of “MUSLIM” [ibid]

Imam Nawawi (rah) on Above hadithsaid

with commentary by Muhammad Shirbini Khatib It is not prohibited to dance ((Shirbini ) which is not unlawful because it is only motions made while standing or bowing. Furani and others have expressly stated that neither is it offensive, but rather, is permissible, as is attested to by the hadith related in the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) stood before ‘A’isha (Allah be well pleased with her) to screen her from view so that she could observe the Abyssinians sporting and dancing) – unless it is languid, like the movements of the effeminate (Mughni al-muhtaj ila ma’rifa ma’ani alfaz al-Minhaj (y73), 4.430)


Imam Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami (Rah) on above Hadith said about above hadith

Beating the kuba is prohibited… but dancing isn’t, being neither prohibited nor offensive, because it is only motions made while standing or bowing, and further because he (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) consented to the Abyssinians doing so in his mosque on the day of Eid, as related by Bukhari and Muslim.

The bold text is from the Minhaj of Imam Nawawi while the rest is Ibn Hajar’s commentary [Tuhfa al-Muhtaj fi Sharh al-Minhaj]


,
Now how many other imams [rah] of Hadith used the word Raqs "Dance" although a Salaf is enough proof in this case but still

1": Imam Tabarani [rah] used the word Raqs [dancing] Reference: Hadith #3 on page 121, Volume 9

2: Imam Nisai [rah] in Sunan Al Kubra using the word Dance "RAQS"] in page # 309, Vol 5 with same Sahih chain and says

that the Abysinians were standing in front of the door of the Holy Prophet e’s house and were ‘ecstatically dancing’ or performing raqs on anticipation of seeing the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)

3: Imam Zamakshari also explained the same haditth with a Sahih chain calling it Raqs , And said Qala al zafaru Al Raqs The word in the hadith means Raqs

4: Imam Suyuti [rah] in[ Sharh Sahih Bukhari pg 123, Al hajl Al tawseeh] said " Al hajalo al raqs biha til maqstatin "

5: Imam Juhri [in kitab ul lugat pg 46] Says Al zafl wa Raqs
,6: Imam murtaza Zubaide [rah] in Taj us uloom kitbah ul lugat ] says " Zafana zasfun zafana ie. It Stands for Raqs [dance]

7: Imam Ibn Manzoor [in lisan ul arab, most authnetic book of lugat pg 135 ] says Al Zafl Al Raqs (i.e it means Raqs )

8: Imam Nabawi [rah] writes in sharh sahih muslim pg 347 says Mana hu yarqusoon (i.e they did Raqs)


9: Qadi Iyad [rah] said in [sarh sahih muslim pg 429 ] Al zabl hu wal raqs

So ijma of imams [rah] agreed its Raqs [dancing] what came from Sahih hadith including Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah] who was a salaf himself


Hadith


‘Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) states:

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَسْوَدُ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَامِرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْبَأَنَا ‏ ‏إِسْرَائِيلُ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هَانِئِ بْنِ هَانِئٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَلِيٍّ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَجَعْفَرٌ ‏ ‏وَزَيْدٌ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏فَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِزَيْدٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ ‏ ‏ مَوْلَايَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِجَعْفَرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ أَشْبَهْتَ خَلْقِي وَخُلُقِي قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏زَيْدٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ لِي أَنْتَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْكَ قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلْتُ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏جَعْفَرٍ

Aswad narrated to us that Isra’il informed us from Abi Is-haaq from Haani ibn Haani’ from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib that he said, “I visited the Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) with Ja’far [ibn Abī Tālib] and Zayd [ibn Harithah]. The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) said to Zayd, “You are my freedman (mawlā’i), whereupon Zayd began to Hajala (hop on one leg- a type of dancing) around the Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam). The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to Ja’far: “You resemble me in my physical form and character” (Khalqī wa Khuluqī), whereupon Ja’far began to do the same behind Zayd. The Nabi (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to me, “You are a part of me and I am a part of you” (anta minnī wa anā mink) whereupon I began to do the same behind Ja’far.”

References

►This is reported by Imām Ahmad in his Musnad (1:537 #857)2.

► Ash-Shākir declared it authentic in his review of the Musnad.

► Al-Bazzār in his Musnad with a sound chain according to Imām Al-Haythamī in his Majma’ Az-Zawā’id (5:157).

►Also reported by Imām Al-Bayhaqī in his Sunan Al-Kubrā (8:6 #15548, 20816)

►as well as Ibn Abī Shaybah in his Musannaf.

►Ibn Sa’ad reported this in Mursal form in his Tabaqāt, 4:22.




Authenticity of Above Hadith

Regarding one narrator Hani bin Hani who some ignorants use to prove above hadith weak

Imam Dhahabi (rah) said in full in his Meezan,

هانئ بن هانئ عن على رضى الله عنه. قال ابن المدينى: مجهول. وقال النسائي: ليس به بأس. وذكره ابن حبان في الثقات

Translation: Hani bin Hani narrated from Ali (Radhi Allaho Anho). Ibn Mudayni said he is Majhool. Imam Nasai (rah) said: “THERE IS NO HARM IN HIM” and Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his “THIQAAT (Reliable narrators)” [Mizan ul Aitidal (7/71)]


Imam Tirimdhi declared many ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “HASAN SAHIH” [SunnanTirimdhi Volume No.5, Hadith #3798]

Imam Ibn Majah (rah) narrated from him and did Sukoot [Sunnan Ibn Majah, Muqadma, Hadith # 143]

Imam Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his Kitab ul Thiqaat (5/508)

Muhadith Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir in his Tahqiq of Musnad Ahmad where he said: “Its chain is sound (إسناده صحيح)“ [Musnad Ahmad Volume 001, Page No. 537, Hadith Number 857, FN: 2]

Imam Ibn Hajr al Haythami (rah) said about ahadith having Hani bin Hani

ورجال أحمد والبزار رجال الصحيح غير هانىء بن هانىء وهو ثقة

Translation: The Rijaal of Ahmed and Bazaar are those of Sahih except Hani bin Hani who is “THIQA” [Majma az Zawaid (8/102)]

Imam Hakim declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Mustadrak al Hakim (3/179)]



Imam al Ajli (rah) said:

1885 ـ هانىء ابن هانىء، كوفي، تابعي ثقة.

Translation: Hani bin Hani, Kufi “TABI AND THIQA” [Thiqat al Ajli Volume No.1, Page No. 454]

Even famous and controversial Wahabi[salafi ] sheikh Nasir ud-din Albani declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Sahih Sunnan Ibn Majah by Albani, (1/119)

Scanned page of above hadith from Musnad of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah]

Also


Imam Baihaqi (rah) proves Raqs from this hadith

Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Hajr Haythami (rah) said: “All narrators are those of Sahih (رجاله رجال الصحيح)“ [Majma’ Az-Zawa’id, Volume 005, Page No. 157]


Imam Bayhaqi made a whole chapter on permissibility of Raqs and after citing this hadith he said: In this (hadith) is“SAHIH PROOF” and "PERMISSIBILITY" of hoping (dancing) which includes “RISING UP OR JUMPING IN STATE OF JOY” and also that of doing “RAQS” which is similar to it [Sunnan al Baihaqi al Kubra (15/333)]

Imam Bayhaqi also states in Shu’yb ul Imaan:

وأما الرقص فإن لم يكن فيه تكسر وتخنث فلا بأس فإنه روي أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
قال لزيد أنت مولانا فحجل وهو أن يرفع رجلا ويقفز إلى الأخرى من

الفرح وقال لجعفر أشبهت خلقي وخلقي فحجل

Translation: As regarding “Raqs” If it does not include going wild and one does not act like the women then “THERE IS NO HARM IN IT” as the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said to Zayd (ra): You are my freedman (anta Mawlay), at this Zayd began to hop on one leg (hajala) around the Prophet (Peace be upon him), and he did this in joy, then the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said to Jafar (ra): You resemble me in my creation and my manners, at this Jafar also began to hop behind Zayd [Shu’yb ul Imaan, Volume No.4, Page No. 483-484]




Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani (rah) said : “Yes! Verily Ja’far ibn Abi Taalib Radhiya Allahu ‘Anhu did raqsin the presence of Rasulullah when he told Ja’far ‘You resemble me in my created form and in my character.’ It would have been necessary for the Nabi (alayhis salaam) to clarify whether it was halaal or haraam, yet the Nabi (’alayhis salaam) did not reject it. This is known in Mustalah Al-Hadith as “Iqraar“, or the acceptance and approval of the Prophet Muhammad . And the Nabi (’alayhis salaam) would not have remained silent regarding the Haraam (forbidden) or the Makruh (hated).”

Reference

► Shaykh Yusuf Khattaar Muhammad references As-Suyuti’s quote from As-Sayf Al-Qaati’ and also Al-Ilhamaat Al-Ilhiyah of Shaykh Mahmuh Abi Shaamaat; See the Maws’uah page 185 published in Damascus in 1999, third edition

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Cheeko, Do not Run away - Answer my question

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy with your old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Cheeko, Do not Run away - Answer my question

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy you old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

I have already replied. Read again.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. It is a difference of opinion between me and you but certainly my intention is not to misguide anyone. What about the other Hadees. What about the views of all the other Ulema whom I quoted regarding raqs and wajad.


And what do you mean by my calibre and qualification because I think you are beginning to get personal. I am sure about it that I am a hundred times better qualified than you. Still keep these petty things out of this discussion. I wont like to discuss worldly matters so keep your focus on the topic.

And whats your problem with me copy pasting something with references. Is it also shirk to copy paste O you misguided. You do it at times as well when needed. One of your last copy pastes was from the najdi website. Have you forgotten that already meetha meetha hub hub kora kora thu thu. Strange logic.

Its related to the topic and to give references is the right approach for a discussion. You want me to debate on your conditions and this is not acceptable to me. I will debate like I wish. Who the hell are you to tell me how to debate? As long as I am not linking any Michael Jackson videos and am related to the topic the rest should be none of your business. If you want to go ahead then let me know otherwise we can stop.