SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

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babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones?
Your above type of question reminds me something from Quran:
"Bring something from sky some Qarbani and then Fire should consume that Qarbani, even then we will not believe....." something like that,
I presume "HOW ON EARTH DID YOU COME TO KNOW", do you wish him to above skies to come to know.
Oh bhai, Khuda ka Khauf karo.
 

basim973

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Your above type of question reminds me something from Quran:
"Bring something from sky some Qarbani and then Fire should consume that Qarbani, even then we will not believe....." something like that,
I presume "HOW ON EARTH DID YOU COME TO KNOW", do you wish him to above skies to come to know.
Oh bhai, Khuda ka Khauf karo.
I agree with brother babadeena. The prophet (pbuh) could to convince his beloved uncle Talib, as ther was no hidayah in his naseeb. We tried to do wot Allah asked the prophet (pbuh) to do is to convey the message and then its in the hand of Allah to make his life change.
May Allah accept our attempt and forgive our humanly mistakes and at the end with a pray for the guidance of brother CHeeko and Singilani. In this forum these r the only 2 supporters left of this cult.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Quraan 6:37 - اور کہتے ہیں اس کے رب کی طرف سے اس پر کوئی ن

Your above type of question reminds me something from Quran:
"Bring something from sky some Qarbani and then Fire should consume that Qarbani, even then we will not believe....." something like that,
I presume "HOW ON EARTH DID YOU COME TO KNOW", do you wish him to above skies to come to know.
Oh bhai, Khuda ka Khauf karo.
how on earth did you come to know[/B] that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones?
Dear Cheeko,

Why am I asking an authetic Hadith from Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari? The reason is that the concept of "wajad" is central or integral part of sufi cult. If you remove this concept all structure of this cult would be on the floor. So for such an "important" concept there has to be a at least one authentic Hadith in any of the two book, Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Babadeena, are you looking for following verse?

وَقَالُوا لَوْلَا نُزِّلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِ ۚ قُلْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَادِرٌ عَلَىٰ أَن يُنَزِّلَ آيَةً وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
Qur'aan 6:37 They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "(Allah) hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not.
اور کہتے ہیں اس کے رب کی طرف سے اس پر کوئی نشانی کیوں نہیں اتری کہہ دو الله اس پر قادر ہے کہ نشانی اتارے اور لیکن ان میں سے اکثر نہیں جانتے
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I agree with brother babadeena. The prophet (pbuh) could to convince his beloved uncle Talib, as ther was no hidayah in his naseeb. We tried to do wot Allah asked the prophet (pbuh) to do is to convey the message and then its in the hand of Allah to make his life change.
May Allah accept our attempt and forgive our humanly mistakes and at the end with a pray for the guidance of brother CHeeko and Singilani. In this forum these r the only 2 supporters left of this cult.

Aameen!

Both Cheeko and SnGilani are our brother. InshaAllah Allah will give them Hidayat (Aameen)

May Allah forgive all of us for making humanly mistakes (Aameen)
 
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Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Aameen!

Both Cheeko and SnGilani are our brother. InshaAllah Allah will give them Hidayat (Aameen)

May Allah forgive all of us for making humanly mistakes (Aameen)

You are not answering me. Stop beating around the bush and answer me now.

I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees? I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones? This question is relevant to my future discussion and your answer will only take this discussion further. The answer to your questions will be delivered after you answer my simple question.

We are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your religious teacher, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly not filtered through your religous teacher.
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Your above type of question reminds me something from Quran:
"Bring something from sky some Qarbani and then Fire should consume that Qarbani, even then we will not believe....." something like that,
I presume "HOW ON EARTH DID YOU COME TO KNOW", do you wish him to above skies to come to know.
Oh bhai, Khuda ka Khauf karo.

Oh bhai khuda ka khauf karo and you still havent answered to me about the detail of namaz from Quran. Just say that you have no answer.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees?

Cheeko, I was not expecting anything better than this from you. You are capable of copy and paste only. As soon as I asked why did you use irrelevant Hadeeths and even "Hasan Zaeef" Hadith to justify your sufi cult, all the air from your balloon is leaked out.

You could not answer any of my question so you started deviating the topic tactics. You do all your tactics but you can not hide yourself from Allah.


Do not listen to your ego. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be there to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly, not filtered through your Peer-o-Murshad.

It is unbelievable that you are so "dheet" (
ڈھیٹ) that you are even copying and pasting my paragraphs as if those are your words. Shame on you! !

Anyway, you are still my Muslim brother. I hope that Allah will insha-Allah show you the right path (Aameen)

May Allah forgive our humanly mustake and keep on the straight path (Aameen)

(Allah knows best)
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Cheeko, I was not expecting anything better than this from you. You are capable of copy and paste only. As soon as I asked why did you use irrelevant Hadeeths and even "Hasan Zaeef" Hadith to justify your sufi cult, all the air from your balloon is leaked out.

You could not answer any of my question so you started deviating the topic tactics. You do all your tactics but you can not hide yourself from Allah.


Do not listen to your ego. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be there to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly, not filtered through your Peer-o-Murshad.

It is unbelievable that you are so "dheet" (
ڈھیٹ) that you are even copying and pasting my paragraphs as if those are your words. Shame on you! !

Anyway, you are still my Muslim brother. I hope that Allah will insha-Allah show you the right path (Aameen)

May Allah forgive our humanly mustake and keep on the straight path (Aameen)

(Allah knows best)

You are not answering me. Stop beating around the bush and answer me now. Its a basic class one question for a madrassa going kid.

I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees? I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones? Who classified them as authentic?This question is relevant to my future discussion and your answer will only take this discussion further. The answer to your questions will be delivered after you answer my simple question.

We are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your religious teacher, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly not filtered through your religous teacher.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
How we can claim Sahih Bkhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most Authentic Books of Hadeth?

I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees?

Cheeko, I know you are trying to deviate from the topic to avoid answering the questions I raised in my earlier post. Anyway here is the answer to your question:

Imam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) died in 256 AH, i.e., 245 years after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, not as your Shi’i friend claims. But these people are natural liars so this claim comes as no surprise. That does not mean that al-Bukhaari could have narrated directly from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); this is not what is meant at all. Rather we mention this here for the purpose of making things clear.


But how can we depend upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari when al-Bukhaari never met the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in person?
The answer is that in his Saheeh, al-Bukhaari did not narrate anything directly from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), rather he narrated from trustworthy shaykhs, who attained the highest degree of memorization, precision and trustworthiness, who in turn had narrated from equally reliable shaykhs, all the way back to the Sahaabah who narrated from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The smallest number of narrators between al-Bukhaari and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is three. So we rely upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari because he chose the narrators from whom he transmitted hadeeth with the utmost care, and they are the most trustworthy. Moreover, he would not write down any hadeeth in his Saheeh until he had done ghusl, then prayed two rak’ahs and prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah to guide him with regard to writing down this hadeeth; then he would write it down. It took him sixteen years to write this book, which the ummah accepted and unanimously agreed that what is narrated in it is saheeh; and Allaah has protected this ummah from agreeing upon misguidance.


Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his introduction to Sharh Muslim (1/14): “The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) are agreed that the most sound of books after the Qur’aan are the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim, which were accepted by the ummah. The book of al-Bukhaari is the more sound and the more beneficial of the two.” And Allaah knows best. source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20153/

According to the scholar , these types of questions are raised by Raafidi (Shi’i), which is simply the first step in attacking the Sunnah which demonstrates that their madhhab is false and their beliefs are corrupt. They cannot help but try to stir up trouble with these misguided notions. But they can never succeed, for the truth is clear and falsehood is confused.

Now answer my listed below question and do not try to run away by deviating from the topic.

Hadees of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a

This is strictly for wajad purposes that I told and doesnt include music. Wajad or ecstacy means overpowering emotion characterized by loss of self-control and sometimes a of temporary loss consciousness and in that state one can lose his control and also go into a state of shock called psychogenic shock and become unconsciousness. Now in the event told in the Hadees it is clear that one person asks Hazrat Abu Huraira about a Hadees. Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a before telling the Hadees fell unconscious three times because of the intensity of his emotions that he had because of two reasons:

1) This was one of the Hadees that he had heard from the Last Messenger peace be upon him. The person asking specifically asked him this question and why not anyone would feel intensely joyous or emotional by telling any Hadees that one learned directly from him.

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.

Cheeko, Do not fool around answer my question:
Hadrat Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

I have already replied. Read again.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. It is a difference of opinion between me and you but certainly my intention is not to misguide anyone. What about the other Hadees. What about the views of all the other Ulema whom I quoted regarding raqs and wajad.
Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy with your old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajad" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.



Could you answer my following questions:

1.
"What is the relevancy of your quoted Hadeeth to support your argument to justify the concept of "wajad" in your sufi cult". Now, do not talk about singing as we will debate later. So that you may not try mix two issue and try to seek a hide out.

2. The concept of "wajad" is the basis of your sufi cult.
Why could not you find any authentic Hadith in Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari to justify your major believe of sufu cult?

3. Even your quoted Hadith does not support the concept of "wajad" in sufi cult.
Can you show me any video where your peer (dead or alive) entered into the stage of "wajad" while narating a hadith?

3. Are you trying to say that it was only Abu Huraira (RA) was the narrator of hadth who went into "wajad" while narrating a hadith and that no other Sahaba (RA) reached to that excellent to attain the stage of "wajad". If there were other sahaba (RA).
Could you please provide any hadith from sahih satta where any other Sahaba (RA) had attain the stage of "wajad" while narrating a hadith.

4. According to your hadeeth
" narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he." Why prophet Muhammad pbuh chose to talk to Abu haraira (RA) about this very important matter secretly.

5. Why are you hiding the fact that this hadith is classifed "hasan ghareeb" by imam tirmidhi (“Hasan Ghareeb” is weaker than the one about which he says “Hasan”)
.

6. Why you quoted half version of your
“Hasan Ghareeb” Hadith: The full version is as follows:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom
people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious.
He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. The first of those who are summoned will be a man who had memorised the Qur’an, a man who was slain in Allah’s path and a man who had much wealth Allah will say to the reciter of the Quran, ‘Did I not teach you what I had revealed to My Messenger?’ He would answer, ‘Certainly, O my Lord! He would ask, ‘So what did you do with what you had learnt?’. He would say, ‘I stood up with it in the night and during day in prayer Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will say to him, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say to him, ‘Rather, you hoped to be cited as a reciter and that has been done’. The man of wealth will be presented next and Allah will say ‘Did I not give you plenty so that you may not depend on anyone?’. He would confirm, ‘Certainly, O my Lord!’ He will ask, ‘Then what did you do with that which I gave you?’ He would answer, ‘I joined ties of relationship and gave sadaqah’. Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will also say, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say, ‘Rather, you loved to be referred to as a philanthropist and that was done’. Then the one who was slain in Allah’s path will be presented and Allah will ask, ‘Why were you killed?’ He will say, ‘you commanded (us) to wage jihad in Your path, so I fought till I was killed’. Allah will say to him ‘You lie,’ and the angels will affirm, ‘You have lied’. And, Allah will say, ‘Rather, you hoped to be called brave and that was done’. After that, Allah’s Messenger patted me on my knee and said, ‘O Abu Hurayrah! They are the first three of Allah’s creatures with whom the fire will be kindled on the Day of Resurrection’.

Cheeko Brother, we are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin and for this sin their is no "Shafaaat" from anybody or forgive by Allah. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quraan and Sunnah directly not filtered through Peer-o-Murshid.

(Cheeko, the above paragraph is my wording which I posted earlier on this forum. Please do not copy and paste my wording to show as if it yours.)
 
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Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: How we can claim Sahih Bkhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most Authentic Books of Hadeth?

Cheeko, I know you are trying to deviate from the topic to avoid answering the questions I raised in my earlier post. Anyway here is the answer to your question:

Imam al-Bukhaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) died in 256 AH, i.e., 245 years after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, not as your Shi’i friend claims. But these people are natural liars so this claim comes as no surprise. That does not mean that al-Bukhaari could have narrated directly from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); this is not what is meant at all. Rather we mention this here for the purpose of making things clear.


But how can we depend upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari when al-Bukhaari never met the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) in person?
The answer is that in his Saheeh, al-Bukhaari did not narrate anything directly from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), rather he narrated from trustworthy shaykhs, who attained the highest degree of memorization, precision and trustworthiness, who in turn had narrated from equally reliable shaykhs, all the way back to the Sahaabah who narrated from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The smallest number of narrators between al-Bukhaari and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is three. So we rely upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari because he chose the narrators from whom he transmitted hadeeth with the utmost care, and they are the most trustworthy. Moreover, he would not write down any hadeeth in his Saheeh until he had done ghusl, then prayed two rak’ahs and prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah to guide him with regard to writing down this hadeeth; then he would write it down. It took him sixteen years to write this book, which the ummah accepted and unanimously agreed that what is narrated in it is saheeh; and Allaah has protected this ummah from agreeing upon misguidance.


Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his introduction to Sharh Muslim (1/14): “The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) are agreed that the most sound of books after the Qur’aan are the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim, which were accepted by the ummah. The book of al-Bukhaari is the more sound and the more beneficial of the two.” And Allaah knows best. source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20153/

According to the scholar , these types of questions are raised by Raafidi (Shi’i), which is simply the first step in attacking the Sunnah which demonstrates that their madhhab is false and their beliefs are corrupt. They cannot help but try to stir up trouble with these misguided notions. But they can never succeed, for the truth is clear and falsehood is confused.

Now answer my listed below question and do not try to run away by deviating from the topic.



Could you answer my following questions:

1. "What is the relevancy of your quoted Hadeeth to support your argument to justify the concept of "wajad" in your sufi cult". Now, do not talk about singing as we will debate later. So that you may not try mix two issue and try to seek a hide out.

2. The concept of "wajad" is the basis of your sufi cult. Why could not you find any authentic Hadith in Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari to justify your major believe of sufu cult?

3. Even your quoted Hadith does not support the concept of "wajad" in sufi cult. Can you show me any video where your peer (dead or alive) entered into the stage of "wajad" while narating a hadith?

3. Are you trying to say that it was only Abu Huraira (RA) was the narrator of hadth who went into "wajad" while narrating a hadith and that no other Sahaba (RA) reached to that excellent to attain the stage of "wajad". If there were other sahaba (RA). Could you please provide any hadith from sahih satta where any other Sahaba (RA) had attain the stage of "wajad" while narrating a hadith.

4. According to your hadeeth " narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he." Why prophet Muhammad pbuh chose to talk to Abu haraira (RA) about this very important matter secretly.

5. Why are you hiding the fact that this hadith is classifed "hasan ghareeb" by imam tirmidhi (“Hasan Ghareeb” is weaker than the one about which he says “Hasan”).

6. Why you quoted half version of your “Hasan Ghareeb” Hadith: The full version is as follows:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom
people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious.
He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. The first of those who are summoned will be a man who had memorised the Qur’an, a man who was slain in Allah’s path and a man who had much wealth Allah will say to the reciter of the Quran, ‘Did I not teach you what I had revealed to My Messenger?’ He would answer, ‘Certainly, O my Lord! He would ask, ‘So what did you do with what you had learnt?’. He would say, ‘I stood up with it in the night and during day in prayer Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will say to him, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say to him, ‘Rather, you hoped to be cited as a reciter and that has been done’. The man of wealth will be presented next and Allah will say ‘Did I not give you plenty so that you may not depend on anyone?’. He would confirm, ‘Certainly, O my Lord!’ He will ask, ‘Then what did you do with that which I gave you?’ He would answer, ‘I joined ties of relationship and gave sadaqah’. Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will also say, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say, ‘Rather, you loved to be referred to as a philanthropist and that was done’. Then the one who was slain in Allah’s path will be presented and Allah will ask, ‘Why were you killed?’ He will say, ‘you commanded (us) to wage jihad in Your path, so I fought till I was killed’. Allah will say to him ‘You lie,’ and the angels will affirm, ‘You have lied’. And, Allah will say, ‘Rather, you hoped to be called brave and that was done’. After that, Allah’s Messenger patted me on my knee and said, ‘O Abu Hurayrah! They are the first three of Allah’s creatures with whom the fire will be kindled on the Day of Resurrection’.

Cheeko Brother, we are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin and for this sin their is no "Shafaaat" from anybody or forgive by Allah. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quraan and Sunnah directly not filtered through Peer-o-Murshid.

(Cheeko, the above paragraph is my wording which I posted earlier on this forum. Please do not copy and paste my wording to show as if it yours.)

Although you fail to give a complete answer but I will give you some grace marks and carry the debate further.

You are quoting Imam Nawawi. Thus it means if he is the person to tell us that those two books are more sahih or authentic than the rest of the books then he is also the same person who also confirms that the two Hadees of Musnad Ahmed about raqs of sahabas and going into ecstacy are sahih and that is why I supported it with so many references including Imam Nawawi.

The hadees experts of those days who classified Bukhari and Muslim as Sahih have also classified the hadees of other books other than sahai sitta as sahih or zaeef. The reason for classifying Bukhari and Muslim as more authentic was because they contained more number [quantity] of sahih hadees than other books as per their opinion. But they also classified the hadees found in other books as sahih or gareeb or zaeef and so for Islamic debates the sahih or authentic hadees are quoted as reference [regardless of from which hadees book] and it is not in any way wrong. The najdis and modernists have a problem with this but it is their problem and not mine. Therefore your aspersion and insistence of finding sahih hadees only from Bukhari and Muslim only shows that you dont even have the basic knowledge of the study and authentification of hadees. Study of Hadees my brother is a science itself and Muhaddis are the people who have expertise in this alone. So anything which an Aulia Allah did is as per Quran and Sunnah and Hadees. These people only preached Quran and Hadees and that is why for centuries the muslims of the world were following Quran and Hadees and not because of the Najdis.


Just for your information the original name of Sahih Bukhari kept by Imam Bukhari r.a was al-Jaami’ al-Sahih al-Musnad al-Mukhtasar min Umur Rasool Allah wa sunanihi wa Ayyamihi and it was changed to Sahih Bukhari by the same later era hadees experts and not by Imam Bukhari r.a


Now focusing back to answer your questions:

Answer to 1 & 5)

The Hadees of Imam Tirmidhi which I quoted about Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. is a sahih hadees and not hasan gareeb.

Hadees of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a

This is strictly for wajad purposes that I told and doesnt include music. Wajad or ecstacy or swoon means overpowering emotion characterized by loss of self-control and sometimes a of temporary loss consciousness and in that state one can lose his control and also go into a state of shock called psychogenic shock and become unconsciousness. Now in the event told in the Hadees it is clear that one person asks Hazrat Abu Huraira about a Hadees. Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a before telling the Hadees fell unconscious three times because of the intensity of his emotions that he had because of two reasons:

a] This was one of the Hadees that he had heard from the Last Messenger peace be upon him. The person asking specifically asked him this question and why not anyone would feel intensely joyous or emotional by telling any Hadees that one learned directly from him.

b] But most importantly in this Hadees it is told that Allah the exalted will come down himself on Qayamat which itself for a slave of Allah is a very joyous and emotional thing because on that day one will be in a very close company of Allah. Also the fear of that day for every believer is itself an emotional feeling.

Only if you would have attained some scientific education then would have you understood the simple reason why Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a fell unconscious temporarily three times. It was because of the intensity of the emotions and this is in other words called ecstacy or wajd.


There are various sahih hadees in other books about swoon. The next Hadees is sahih and confirmed by various hadees experts and it is in many hadees books quoted with various and different authentic narrators which strengthens its value.

Abu Saeed Khudri r.a narrates that the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said Remember Allah (SWT) so much that people start saying that he has gone mad.
.
References:
► Ahmad ibn Hambal, al-Musnad (3:68#11671)
► Ahmad ibn Hambal, al-Musnad (3:71#11692)
► Ibn Hibban, as-Sahih (3:99#817)
► Abu Yala, al-Musnad (2:521#1376)
► Abd ibn Humayd, al-Musnad (1:289#925)
► Hakim, al-Mustadrak (1:677#1839)
► Bayhaqi, Shuab-ul-iman (1:397#526)
► Daylami, al-Firdaws bima thur al-khitab (1:72#212)
► Ibn Rajab, Jami-ul-ulum wal-hikam (1:444)
► Mundhiri, at-Targhib wat-tarhib (2:256#2304)



Intensity of emotions or swoon or ecstacy is not a new phenomena in the Hadees. Going into swoon is also there in Quran but you dont want to read it.

Yusuf Ali: When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." [7:143]

Shakir: And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers [7:143]


Hadees
Narrated Abu Said: The Prophet said, 'People will be struck unconscious on the Day of Resurrection and I will be the first to regain consciousness, and behold! There I will see Moses holding one of the pillars of Allah's Throne. I will wonder whether he has become conscious before me of he has been exempted, because of his unconsciousness at the Tur (mountain) which he received (on the earth)." [Sahih Bukhari chapter 55 number 610]


Emotional involvement while remembering Allah and becoming very joyous or fearul is not shirk

"The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His Verses (this Qur'an) are recited unto them, they increase their Faith; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone)." [Al-Anfaal (8):2]

Shivering of the skin when reciting or hearing Quran being recited is not shirk. How many times has your skin shivered with fear and I am talking about your skin and not the fear in heart. You might say never or once or twice and many people never had that experience so how do you expect each and every sahaba to have the same reaction and going into ecstasy or their skins shiver.

Allah sent to us the Qur'an and "the skins of those who fear their Lord shiver from it (when they recite it or hear it). Then their skin and their heart soften to the remembrance of Allah." [39:23]

Can you show me any Hadees from Bukhari and Muslim where the skins of all the Sahabas shivered with fear? I am not telling that they didnt fear Allah but answering to that question of yours in which you foolishly asked in one of your posts that why only Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. fell unconsciousness due to swoon or ecstasy. These things are difficult for you to understand as your religous teacher doesnt has the calibre to grasp these various phenomenons. He thinks that every person reacts the same and has a similar psychology whereas science tells that different people react differently to different situations and scenarios. So it isnt necessary for every person to go into wajd. Even in gatherings of zikr and raqs today you wont see everyone going into wajd or ecstacy and becoming unconscious. Most of the people dont become unconscious and only a few.




Answer to 2 & 3)

It is not necessary that I find everything in Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim because I already know that going into swoon is a psychogenic emotional phenomenon already mentioned in Quran. There are many things which you wont find in Sahih Bukhari. The word Mahdi for Imam Mahdi is not to be found in Sahih Bukhari according to my limited knowledge. Do show me if you find the word Mahdi.

There are many concepts present in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim related to Islam which Sahabas did and are followed by other Aulia Allah

a] Loud Dhikr in gatherings in circles

b] 46th part of prophecy via dreams

c] Relation with Last Messenger peace be upon him via dreams

d] Tabarruk or blessings from His [peace be upon him] hair and other belongings

e] Intercession and we do get to know that Last Messenger peace be upon him and Aulia Allah will intercede on qayamat for forgiveness of sins. Now because everything is not necessary to find in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim but we know from Quran that Allah does grant the power to intercede in exceptional circumstances. The Ayat for intercession on qayamat is different and the intercession for other occasions are separately told. Intercession for other occasions is also allowed and the details can be found in other hadees which are labelled sahih or authentic by the same hadees experts who say that Bukhari and Muslim are Sahih.

That Day, no intercession will benefit except one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word [20:109]

The other Ayaat dont mention about intercession for qayamat

Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great [2:255]

And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand [34:23]



f] We also get the indication that music for good purposes on festive occasions is also allowed as per Bukhari and the details can be found in other hadees which are also labelled sahih or authentic by the same hadees experts who say that Bukhari and Muslim are Sahih.

The integral part of true Islam and what the Aulia Allah have preached is the belief in one Allah and belief in Prophets and Books and Angels and the qayamat and predestination. The five pillars are Tawheed and Salat and Zakat and Saum and Hajj.

The rest of actions are ways to do zikr or remember Allah and his beloved beings and are done when the minimum required actions of Ibadah have been performed and we have free time or on special festive occasions.


Answer to 4)

This one is a very irrelevant question as not related to topic. Focus on the topic. Only if you give me some sane reason for this inquiry then perhaps I can help you.


Answer to 6)

It dooesnt make a difference if I quote half a Hadees to save web space or quote full hadees as long as the theme doesnt change. So again you are asking questions which reveal your intellect and calibre. Only if you give me some sane reason for this inquiry then perhaps I can help you.






Why shouldnt I copy your paragraph? Is this shirk also? Debate with logic rather than acting childishly.

We are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your religious teacher, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly not filtered through your religous teacher.
 
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cefspan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Another Addition ,
sami_yusuf0731.jpg

Sami Yusuf , the muslim rockstar!
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mushrikana Hajj in Pakistan

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Mushrikana Hajj in Pakistan - 16
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
Music In Islam

Let’s analyse it:

Clip 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg2HkQ46snI

In this clip he says there is NO AYAH IN QURAN DIRECTLY PROHIBITING the music but only indications as he quotes Surah Luqman, furthe to it he mentions HADITH and argues playing music instrument is HARAM but some scholar(????) have allowed it.

In same clip he mentions three more HADITH which says only DUFF or TAMBURI (Name of musical instrument) are allowed and little girls could beat it.

Clip 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIuLxxAd7ZM&feature=related

Person asks a question about Music in ADVERTISEMENT is Halal or Haram?

He answers HARAM IS HARAM whether it is INDIA, USA etc. So according to him music is Haram whether used in Advertisement or anywhere else.

As everyone knows you need advertisement for running expanses etc but he claims he would close the CHANNEL but won’t do such things that are HARAM (Music).

In same clips he mentions that WE CAN USE NATURAL VOICES AS SUBSITUTE that are close to REAL (Music) like birds chirping, thunder, rain fall etc.

Clip 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1ZbEEq3ohE&feature=related

He goes one step ahead and declares ISLAM IS AGAINST POETRY as mentioned in SURAH SHU’ARA.

Then he says in INDIAN FILMS poetry is UNREALISTIC.

Clip 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9-XR3FIsww&feature=related

Again he argues UNREALISTIC APPROACH OF POETRY and he says IT MAY HAVE SOME GOOD POINTS also as he quotes AYAH FROM SURAH BAQRAH which is actually condemning uses of ALCOHOL.

Summary of Above Clips
No verse in Quran that directly prohibits music.
Indications are there to prove it Haram.
Among musical instrument Duff is permissible. (All other are Haram then?)
Haram is haram whether it is in India or somewhere else. [Meaning if one act is declared haram then no matter if you change location (use it in advertisement) it will be still haram]
Subtitute of music is available in form of live sounds such as birds chirping etc.
[There are two things:
Musical Instrument
Its sound
So he declares sound is Halal as he has mentioned SUBSITUTE.
So if sound is Halal then what made instrument Haram???
Is it its physical dimension?]
He will prefer to close channel rather to do an act of Haram. (Means music won’t be played at all)
He argues Unrealistic approach of lyrics.
He goes ahead and says POETRY IS AGAINST ISLAM. (How about Hazrat Hassan Bin Sabit Razi Allah Tala Anho?)
He says although there are some advantages but disadvantages are immense. (He quotes a Mansookh Ayah (An Ayah which is though recited but acting upon it, is prohibited. This is actually for use of Alcohol in initial days when use of Alcohol was allowed but after some period of time Alcohol was totally banned. So how come you relate it to music?)

Now look at the following clip in which music is being played on Channel:

Clip 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoq-mxPoJsA

Music is being played.
Poetry is there.
Little girls are a kind of dancing.
Huge crowd is witnessing them.

(Remember: In Hadith quoted by him, it’s just mentioned little girl was playing duff in house in presence of Hazrat Ayesha Razi Allah Tala Anha and Rasool Allah Sal Lallah O Wasalm not in front of Audience!)

Recall the summary above and try to compare and contrast.

Yousuf Estes

Same clan, just to prove listen to his ideology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APqWghdS2Mc

Now listen to his views about Music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0aHS_kWL5w&feature=related

He argues everything is Islam has limits, in worshiping everything is HARAM except Allah but in LIFE YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING WHAT YOU WANT TO EXCEPT YOU FIND EVIDENCE against.

So Haram is that could be proved through Quran and Sunnah so MUSIC is PERMISSABLE with a lot of limitation because there is no statement BANNING ALL MUSIC, he even says some people take QURAN AS MUSIC.

He says Rasool Allah Sal Lallah O Wasalam liked NASHEED (Songs) so NASHEED is not Haram as long as content is Islamic.

Now recall the summary above and try to compare and contrast.

Judge Yourself.

Now look at some random videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoRHLrXmqbc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA6I_s53Gn0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WGmHWiXZIE&feature=channel

King Faisal is dancing on music at 03:42/10:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11OCZcxrCxw

So may any one be able to dare to ask such scholars to issue fatwa against people in these clips?

Is it only Auliya Karam against whom they can issue fatwas?

Can they tempt to turn people against those Auliya who were torch bearer in this region?

Think...........
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
Good poetry is allowed and only devious poetry is forbidden

Yusuf Ali: And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them [26:224]

Yusuf Ali: Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley? [26:225]

Yusuf Ali: And that they say what they practise not? [26:226]

Yusuf Ali: Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of Allah, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take [26:227]
 
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