Good-Bye Pakistan: I have decided to leave

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You have given some examples of Hadees but they are not relevant to blasphemy , so I thought I should give you some examples of Hadees which are about blasphemy .

First Hadees. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4348)

“A blind man had a freed concubine (Umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. A child fell between her legs, and became covered by blood. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I ask by Allah the man who has done this action and I order him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”

Second Hadees (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4349)
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.


My point it through two authentic Hadees is, it is evident that when one committed blasphemy , Prophet Muhammad PBUH approved that person's killing even without investigation. He didn't ask the 2 killers of the accused women , that they should have come to the prophet before killing them. He didn't ask them that they should have allowed those women to repent before you killed them. Or the Qazi should have decided if they deserved the death penalty. He could have said, you don't provide death penalty only the court does.

So if you find someone who is using inappropriate language towards our Prophet , then you have a licence in islam to kill him or her on the spot. This is the reason all the Muslim Ulmah's supported Mumtaz Qadri. This is the reason Ilm-deen is taught in children's book. In Islam no court is needed for a trial for killing of a person who commits blasphemy ,, the person witnessing the blasphemy can kill the blasphemer on the spot and there will not be any charges.

You will not find one example in 6 Saha Satta Hadees books where our beloved prophet Muhammad let the blasphemer live or asked the court investigation. Now you will know that every single Muslim scholar is united for killing of Aasis bibi even when Supreme court found her innocent. In their opinion high court finding her guilty is more than enough to take her life.

It is our religion , We must accept it.

In all the Hadiths that you quoted above, Prophet (PBUH) himself was there to decide. He was Chief Justice as well. After the departure of Prophet(PBUH), we need investigations and judges to decide on every matter including the matter of blasphemy. We have three-tier judicial system. No one can be hanged without passing through all tiers. If you don't accept decision of the highest court, you commit sedition and you very well know the punishment of sedition. No Scholar can hand-over punishment on any matter including the matter of Blasphemy.
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have read what you have written but don't understand your conclusion! If you look at the history of Pakistan over the past 70 years these things have been prevalent throughout
But, I myself haven't experienced what happened in 1950s and 1970s. Reading from books and experiencing yourself are different things altogether. Aren't they? Another thing. My father who has experienced many events over past 50 years says that he never saw so much intolerance and religious fanaticism in Pakistan as he has seen over past few years.
 
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bhutt-dari

Senator (1k+ posts)
First of all, my introduction. I have been on Siasat.pk website since 2011. I am a 38-year old Muslim Pakistani currently working and living in Lahore.I did my BS in Electrical Engineering from a famous public-sector University, and my MS and PhD in Electrical Engineering from a top US University and was funded through TA-ship and RA-ship. My economic background is middle-class. My religious background is that I am a moderate (neither liberal nor fundamentalist) Muslim who firmly believes in the last prophet-hood of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) and who tries his best to discharge his religious obligations.

I came back to Pakistan partly because of my family-reasons and partly because of my desire to work for my country. Over the past many years, I have been witnessing increasing intolerance in Pakistan. I saw Taliban taking over few parts of the country which Pakistani State took back after many years of intense fighting. During all those years when Pakistani State was fighting with Taliban I was never extremely worried or dejected b/c I knew that Taliban's support-base was limited, both in number and geography. I never became despondent because of rampant corruption b/c I knew that a new party (PTI) was struggling against it and was drawing positive response from public. However, a new phenomenon has arisen ever since Mumtaz Qadri was hanged on account of assassinating ex-Governor, Salman Taseer and this is what has bothered me the most. It is TLP (Tehreek Labbaik Pakistan).

Last year, TLP successfully blocked various parts of the country and made State of Pakistan surrender by forcing two of its ministers to resign. When the then govt asked military to take action against protesters, military refused. This year, they achieved bigger success and Pakistan suffered bigger capitulation. They not only made country stand-still for three days but also gave 'Fatwas' of killing Supreme Court Judges, declared COAS as Qadiani, incited army's ranks-n-files to stage rebellion against its own Chief, and declared Prime Minister of the country as Jew. And guess, after all this, they not only got away with it but also forced Govt to sign another agreement of capitulation. On the other hand we see that many people have been booked in Pakistan under sedition charges. Latest example was of Altaf Hussain of MQM.

I just couldn't understand why the country was blocked in the first place. Highest Court in our country has given a decision (by setting free a christian woman of Blasphemy charges) and we want to set-up our own court and hang that woman. You can disagree with any judgement of any court but you can't disobey the judgement. Blasphemy is not what you think. Blasphemy is what Court decides. This is no argument that when two courts declared her as Blasphemous, then how could the third court declared her non-blasphemous. Supreme Court's decision is not one out of three decisions. It is the only decision that matters. There are numerous examples from the past history of Pakistan when lower courts declared a person guilty and SC freed him/her. There are many examples where lower courts freed a person and SC found him/her guilty. In all these cases, it was the SC decision that mattered, and got implemented.

Another point to worry here is that TLP was supported by all religious parties and all sects of Muslims. Yesterday, I offered Juma prayer in a Deobandi Masjid. The Khateeb was shedding light on Namoos-e-Rasool. At one point, he said that his Bazurgaan (older scholars) have stated that Namoos-e-Risaalat should be protected even if whole Muslim Ummah gets destroyed. He gave no reference of Quraan or Hadith to support this very statement (That way he was justifying the destruction of properties of Pakistanis). This made me shudder. No Muslim can have any doubt on Namoos-e-Risaalat. It is part of his faith. What our scholars should have talked about in Juma was, "what is punishment for those who refuse to accept highest court's decision on any matter including Namoos-e-Risaalat matter?" Isn't it tantamount to sedition (Baghawat)? what is punishment of sedition in Islam? But, alas! no Muslim scholar chose this topic. Everyone wants easy path to Jannah!

I tell you an incident that is much more pertinent to the case-at-hand (i.e. The SC's decision in favor of Asia Bibi) than what our scholars have been saying over the past three days. The incident is about a legal case between Hazrat Ali and a Jew. Hazrat Ali filed a lawsuit against a Jew that his (Ali's) armor was missing and was currently in possession of that particular Jew. Qazi (CJ of that time) asked the Jew if Armor belonged to Hazrat Ali. Jew denied it. Qazi asked Hazrat Ali to bring two witnesses in support of his claim. He brought Hazrat Hassan (his son) and his freed-slave as witnesses. Qazi said that I accept the witness of your freed-slave but not that of your son, so bring second witness. Hazrat Ali said that he didn't have any other witness. Qazi gave verdict in favor of Jew.

Did Sahaaba and Tabaeen take out processions against Qazi that how did he dare give decision against Ameer-ul-Momineen and in favor of a Jew? Did Qazi think that Ali was (Naoozobillah) telling a lie and Jew was speaking a truth? No. No one criticized Qazi. Neither did Hazrat Ali. Qazi gave verdict based on principles and not based on the fact that plaintiff was Ameer-ul-Momineen/Damaad-e-Rasool and defendant was a Jew.

Lastly, I narrate an authentic Hadith about the decisions made by Qazi. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said. "If the judge rules and strives his utmost to work it out and gets it right, he will have two rewards, and if he rules and strives his utmost to work it out and gets it wrong, he will have one reward".(Sahih Al-Bukhari: 7352, Sahih Al-Muslim: 1716).

The present arrangement made by our govt will not last long. Those who have read the detailed verdict of SC can tell you the fate of review petition. SC's original decision will be upheld, TLP will not accept it again, and we will witness the repeat of the last three-days but at bigger scale. You see that TLP didn't agree to write this point in the last-night agreement that all parties will accept the decision of review petition.

Keeping in view all the above, I have started looking out for Post-Doc and other jobs in my field abroad and hope to get some good offer soon. Pakistan has become a den of extremists. Everyone fears them be it Army, Police, Judges, Politicians etc.
you wrote that:
"I saw Taliban taking over few parts of the country which Pakistani State took back after many years of intense fighting. During all those years when Pakistani State was fighting with Taliban I was never extremely worried or dejected b/c I knew that Taliban's support-base was limited, both in number and geography"
let me correct that these were implanted terrorists under the name of "taliban", and which defamed real talibans.
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
you wrote that:
"I saw Taliban taking over few parts of the country which Pakistani State took back after many years of intense fighting. During all those years when Pakistani State was fighting with Taliban I was never extremely worried or dejected b/c I knew that Taliban's support-base was limited, both in number and geography"
let me correct that these were implanted terrorists under the name of "taliban", and which defamed real talibans.

I talked about TTP in my post. TTP had many groups in it. Some were implanted by foreign elements. Some were genuinely our own who people working for bringing Sharia to Pakistan as per their own understanding.
 

Anuuge67

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Brain drain is done via destabilization in countries that do NOT follow Jew Controlled West, especially DAJJAL USA.

IT IS A TACTICAL POLICY OF ALL FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES AGAINST DEVELOPING NATIONS.
CHINA NUKED THIS CRIMINAL POLICY.

LOOK AT THE PAKISTANI RETARDED ILLITERATE FRAUDS MASQUERADING IS RELIGIOUS LEADERS?
THE OPTICS SHOWN ON TV STATIONS?
SITTING IN WEST, WHAT DO THE WHITES SEE? A GUY WITH A BLACK BEARD HOLDING A TALWAAR ?
OVER A DECISION OF SUPREME COURTS OF SUPPOSED BLASPHEMY OF OUR BELOVED PROPHET?

COURT RULED ACCORDINGLY.. THE END..
THE BEARDED LUNTATIC TRIBE OF INSANE RIZVI HAD TO BLACK MAIL AND TEST THE RESOLVE OF STATE OF PAKISTAN..

BITCH RAW PIMP KANJUR RIZVI WILL PAY A PRICE.. CHINESE POLICY OR EVEN WORSE WILL BY APPLIED BY THE STATE OF PAKISTAN.

ISI WILL AVENGED THE RAW/CIA MOSSAD HIT ON SAMI UL HAQ.

LINE MUST BE DRAWN. IN THE SAND...BY THE STATE OF PAKISTAN..ENOUGH OF INSANITY OF THESE CHARLATANS WHO USE ISLAM AS A BUSINESS AND FOOL IGNORANT MASSES.

ALL MOLVIS SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED FOR SOURCE OF INCOME..NAB FIA..

WHAT QUALIFICATIONS DO THESE MOLVIS HAVE? DEGREES? BAN ALL IF THEY CANNOT PROVIDE PROOF.

JAIL ALL AGITATORS. MY CHOICE DEATH BY FIRING SQUAD.

THIS MUST STOP.

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD. HANG EM HIGH.Y
 

Ali Sha

Senator (1k+ posts)
We should separate religion from state and most of our problems will be solved. Religion can't mix with politics because religion is pure and politics is dirty. The two nation theory we talk about is already obsolete after the separation of Bangladesh, they have managed to raise a more tolerant society than us. In short Zia butt raped this country and its moral fabric.
 

farooqak

Minister (2k+ posts)
it will take ages for things to change
you can still serve your country by going abroad and sending remittances as we need dollars :)

i also think IK will lose all his hair in running this country and his hair style will be just like his friend Nawaz Sharif
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We should separate religion from state and most of our problems will be solved. Religion can't mix with politics because religion is pure and politics is dirty. The two nation theory we talk about is already obsolete after the separation of Bangladesh, they have managed to raise a more tolerant society than us. In short Zia butt raped this country and its moral fabric.
Zia-u-Haq is the founder of all the religious extremism that we are witnessing in Pakistan.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Religions are based on faith not on evidence. Faith by definition means believing something without any evidence. Rest of the world understands this but in Pakistan people are still 300 years behind thinking that religions, fairies, ghosts, ginis, angels literally are true. With this delusion they are creating laws and writing them into the constitution. Result is in-front of you.

Secular laws are based on reason. We talk to each other and come to a conclusion on what should be allowed and what should not be allowed after a thorough discussion. The laws and system in West are not perfect, there are still old laws that are legacy of the religious past but overall this system seems to work better than theocracy of Saudi, Iran and Pakistan.

As long as Pakistanis live in this delusion that they can use holy books to make judgements and make laws, there is no future. But on the bright side there are many intellegent people in Pakistan. They are in the minority but things will change slowly and sanity will prevail.

First of all, my introduction. I have been on Siasat.pk website since 2011. I am a 38-year old Muslim Pakistani currently working and living in Lahore.I did my BS in Electrical Engineering from a famous public-sector University, and my MS and PhD in Electrical Engineering from a top US University and was funded through TA-ship and RA-ship. My economic background is middle-class. My religious background is that I am a moderate (neither liberal nor fundamentalist) Muslim who firmly believes in the last prophet-hood of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) and who tries his best to discharge his religious obligations.

I came back to Pakistan partly because of my family-reasons and partly because of my desire to work for my country. Over the past many years, I have been witnessing increasing intolerance in Pakistan. I saw Taliban taking over few parts of the country which Pakistani State took back after many years of intense fighting. During all those years when Pakistani State was fighting with Taliban I was never extremely worried or dejected b/c I knew that Taliban's support-base was limited, both in number and geography. I never became despondent because of rampant corruption b/c I knew that a new party (PTI) was struggling against it and was drawing positive response from public. However, a new phenomenon has arisen ever since Mumtaz Qadri was hanged on account of assassinating ex-Governor, Salman Taseer and this is what has bothered me the most. It is TLP (Tehreek Labbaik Pakistan).
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We should separate religion from state and most of our problems will be solved. Religion can't mix with politics because religion is pure and politics is dirty. The two nation theory we talk about is already obsolete after the separation of Bangladesh, they have managed to raise a more tolerant society than us. In short Zia butt raped this country and its moral fabric.

This separation might not be possible because the way country was created and the way its citizens have been groomed over past 70 years. Alternatively, State could take control of religion as is in Iran and Saudi Arabia. Khateebs are given written sermons by the State. Madrassas are funded by the State.
 

Hussain1967

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Religions are based on faith not on evidence. Faith by definition means believing something without any evidence. Rest of the world understands this but in Pakistan people are still 300 years behind thinking that religions, fairies, ghosts, ginis, angels literally are true. With this delusion they are creating laws and writing them into the constitution. Result is in-front of you.

Secular laws are based on reason. We talk to each other and come to a conclusion on what should be allowed and what should not be allowed after a thorough discussion. The laws and system in West are not perfect, there are still old laws that are legacy of the religious past but overall this system seems to work better than theocracy of Saudi, Iran and Pakistan.

As long as Pakistanis live in this delusion that they can use holy books to make judgements and make laws, there is no future. But on the bright side there are many intellegent people in Pakistan. They are in the minority but things will change slowly and sanity will prevail.

Pakistan is not even theocratic like Iran and Saudi Arabia. In those countries, state has the monopoly over religion. Another country where religion is controlled by the state is Israel. Israel is not a secular state by any means but look at the GDP, Scientific output, and number of high-tech companies of Israel. In Pakistan, no Moulana of any sect allows state to control his Madrasah and Masjid.
 

c'estmoi

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
it will take ages for things to change
you can still serve your country by going abroad and sending remittances as we need dollars :)

i also think IK will lose all his hair in running this country and his hair style will be just like his friend Nawaz Sharif

I thought hair transplant was permanent....:sneaky:
 

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