How Can you Beat them? Even the Kids, Women, Old and the Disabled are Imran

[shehzadakram]

بولے نہیں وہ لفظ جو ایمان میں نہ تھے
لکھی نہیں وہ بات جو اپنی نہیں تھی بات​

People of Pakistan didn't burn down the buildings, ransack the street and created mess in the cities .

then who were they? chinese or were they japani?

 

[Siberite]

May be you have read the version of history that differs from rest of the world. It was not like that. Watch the videos of Bhutto who while drunk openly chanted the slogan you stay there and we here.

It was not because of Bengalis, it was because of the political parties of west Pakistan not accepting their mandate and treating them like third class citizens

I think you need to revisit that infamous sentence in the history. However, I agree with you that it was the political parties which could not accommodate each other and refused to sit together. Wheater it was the Bhutto's PPP or Mujeeb's Awami League.

Mujeeb was the fundamental in rising people of East Pakistan against the rest of the country. He had a legit grievance which could only be resolved among politicians.

But using that leverage of the grievances and working to break the country is mutiny. At no cost, any political leader should take people on that path.

Indian MB was operating in east Pakistan a long time before the dispute came on surface. They were supplying arms and training Bengalis against the Pak force even before the whole fiasco came into existence.

 

[Masud Rajaa]

یہ جو دہشت گردی ہے، اس کے پیچھے وردی ہے

 

[Siberite]

then who were they? chinese or were they japani?

It is not difficult to find out. Majority of them were Afghans. Who you think was facilitating Kulbhooshan in Pakistan ?

 

[shehzadakram]

It is not difficult to find out. Majority of them were Afghans. Who you think was facilitating Kulbhooshan in Pakistan ?

I am an ethnic Punjabi and i will be very offended if you call me " Indian Sikh" just because of the fact that Punjabies exist on both sides of the border.
Pakistani has following big ethnic groups:

1. Punjabies ( you might label them Indian Sikhs)
2. Pashtuns/Pathans ( you might label them Afghans)
3. Sindies
4. Balochs ( You might want to kill them)

Do u see the different shades/colors here? Let's not be racist!

 

[ahameed]

People of Pakistan didn't burn down the buildings, ransack the street and created mess in the cities .

The ones who did it can be put in the jails, BUT, no BLOODY FAUJI/POLICIA is allowed to kill anyone

 

[FaisalKh]

I think you need to revisit that infamous sentence in the history. However, I agree with you that it was the political parties which could not accommodate each other and refused to sit together. Wheater it was the Bhutto's PPP or Mujeeb's Awami League.

Mujeeb was the fundamental in rising people of East Pakistan against the rest of the country. He had a legit grievance which could only be resolved among politicians.

But using that leverage of the grievances and working to break the country is mutiny. At no cost, any political leader should take people on that path.

Indian MB was operating in east Pakistan a long time before the dispute came on surface. They were supplying arms and training Bengalis against the Pak force even before the whole fiasco came into existence.

Again you are just blaming a person and not looking at the bigger picture why it all happened. If MB was trying for long, it is our political parties gave them the chance to strike and the handling of our Army generals.

There is no doubt about that Raw is active in Pakistan and same is true for ISI working in India so that's not a new thing. It is just the way how they counter it is all matters.

The bigger picture i am referring to is the mandate of the people specially Bengalis which the losing party outright refused to accept and that should not be tolerated in any Civil society and also the treatment of their political leaders.

It is happening again today that because PDM is not popular they won't hold elections. All the excuses they came up with just fell on their face in last 2 days.

Fighting own people never ends well on either side

 

[FaisalKh]

I think you need to revisit that infamous sentence in the history. However, I agree with you that it was the political parties which could not accommodate each other and refused to sit together. Wheater it was the Bhutto's PPP or Mujeeb's Awami League.

Mujeeb was the fundamental in rising people of East Pakistan against the rest of the country. He had a legit grievance which could only be resolved among politicians.

But using that leverage of the grievances and working to break the country is mutiny. At no cost, any political leader should take people on that path.

Indian MB was operating in east Pakistan a long time before the dispute came on surface. They were supplying arms and training Bengalis against the Pak force even before the whole fiasco came into existence.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Siberite]

I am an ethnic Punjabi and i will be very offended if you call me " Indian Sikh" just because of the fact that Punjabies exist on both sides of the border.
Pakistani has following big ethnic groups:

1. Punjabies ( you might label them Indian Sikhs)
2. Pashtuns/Pathans ( you might label them Afghans)
3. Sindies
4. Balochs ( You might want to kill them)

Do u see the different shades/colors here? Let's not be racist!

Afghans are not Pakistanis. Their sympathies lie with Afghanistan. Pakistanis Sympathies should be with Pakistan. It is never an ethnic issue.
I speak Punjabi Potahari, can speak fluent Urdu and Pahari. But I am Pakistani. I am sure you know that there are millions of Afghans who are living in Pakistan .

 

[FaisalKh]

It is not difficult to find out. Majority of them were Afghans. Who you think was facilitating Kulbhooshan in Pakistan ?

See this is what I was referring to treating a certain group different than the rest.
Do you not consider Afghans as Pakistanis? If this is the mentality then why do you think it is wrong that they breakaway from Pakistan?

 

[shehzadakram]

See this is what I was referring to treating a certain group different than the rest.
Do you not consider Afghans as Pakistanis? If this is the mentality then why do you think it is wrong that they breakaway from Pakistan?

Dangerous thinking. I already asked him of all Punjabies in Pakistan are Indian Sikhs.

 

[FaisalKh]

Afghans are not Pakistanis. Their sympathies lie with Afghanistan. Pakistanis Sympathies should be with Pakistan. It is never an ethnic issue.
I speak Punjabi Potahari, can speak fluent Urdu and Pahari. But I am Pakistani. I am sure you know that there are millions of Afghans who are living in Pakistan .

Someone has told you the wrong facts. Let me correct it for you.
There are roughly 25 millions Afghans living in Khyber Pukhtunkhwa. They are PAKISTANI as KPK is part of Pakistan since 1947. Hundreds of thousands of them are working in law enforcement

Afghans from tribal area helped to liberate Azad Kashmir in 1947 even would have gone further had it not been the political engineering at place.

There are some 2.5 million refugees from Afghanistan and they are not the whole KPK

 

[FaisalKh]

Dangerous thinking. I already asked him of all Punjabies in Pakistan are Indian Sikhs.

Exactly and whatever happened in East Pakistan is not that just started overnight.

I have relatives who are brainwashed because of the mistreatment and having different treatment compared to the other parts of Pakistan and it is just fuelling the feeling of rebellion. Same is happening in Balochistan even it has started happening in Hazara community when they see they are being treated differently than Afghans/Pashtoons

 

[Siberite]

Again you are just blaming a person and not looking at the bigger picture why it all happened. If MB was trying for long, it is our political parties gave them the chance to strike and the handling of our Army generals.

There is no doubt about that Raw is active in Pakistan and same is true for ISI working in India so that's not a new thing. It is just the way how they counter it is all matters.

The bigger picture i am referring to is the mandate of the people specially Bengalis which the losing party outright refused to accept and that should not be tolerated in any Civil society and also the treatment of their political leaders.

It is happening again today that because PDM is not popular they won't hold elections. All the excuses they came up with just fell on their face in last 2 days.

Fighting own people never ends well on either side

There are lot of misconceptions when you compare the situation of East Pakistan to the current political divide. The Bengalis of East Pakistan had very few things common between them and the people of West Pakistan. Their language, cultural values were lot closer to Hindus than with the people of West Pakistan. Beside religion, there is hardly anything you can find which can keep them coexisting with West Pakistan.
Mujeeb exploited those differences to achieve his interest to rule and he never rose above himself to keep the larger interest of nation. It was much easier for him to threaten to breakup the country until and unless the power is not given to him . There is no doubt that he deserved to rule the country as a result of the elections.
Now, the result of those election did nothing to bring stability to the country but caused a bigger rift than it was there to begin with.

As far as I am concerned, I see this as a gross failure of political parties than the army defeat. Had Bhutto not resisted the invitation of Mujeeb for all political candidates to assemble in East Pakistan, we might have avoided the fall of Dhakka. The mistakes were made from both parts, and it was not mere depriving the east Pakistani people their right to govern. Mujeeb was in cahoots with Indians from the day one.

This is why I said that anyone who refused, stop and resist the negotiations and meeting is not really a politician. Politicians meet with their sworn enemy to find the solutions of the problems. Ik being stubborn and totally egotistic, refuse any talk and any viable solution.
I don't think this situation is anywhere critical as we seen back in 1971 except that when you condole violence and burn the properties than force must be used to prevent destruction. Any election under this poisonous environment will only destabilize the country and push it in to a series of crisis. Only solution out is through talk and negotiation.

 

[jigrot]

Stop advocating the mobs and its mentality. Stop destroying your country. Th arrest of IK is not above the stability and security of the country .

Follow the law. Did you have arrest warrants ?

 

[Siberite]

See this is what I was referring to treating a certain group different than the rest.
Do you not consider Afghans as Pakistanis? If this is the mentality then why do you think it is wrong that they breakaway from Pakistan?

Look man , if you really think that way than those millions of Urdu speaking people who migrated to Pakistan rightfully call themselves Muhajirs. Those Afghanis who still have not become the nationals of country stays Afghans and this is what you call them. Those Muhajirs who left India too came to Pakistan are Pakistanis, not Indian Muhajirs after 75 years of living here. What is so difficult about it.

 

[Siberite]

Follow the law. Did you have arrest warrants ?

Follow the Law ?. The arrest could not have taken place without warrants . Even IK admitted that he was shown the arrest warrant. Now the CJ wants a guest in his house. What the nation or the law enforcement agencies can do about it.

 

[FaisalKh]

There are lot of misconceptions when you compare the situation of East Pakistan to the current political divide. The Bengalis of East Pakistan had very few things common between them and the people of West Pakistan. Their language, cultural values were lot closer to Hindus than with the people of West Pakistan. Beside religion, there is hardly anything you can find which can keep them coexisting with West Pakistan.
Mujeeb exploited those differences to achieve his interest to rule and he never rose above himself to keep the larger interest of nation. It was much easier for him to threaten to breakup the country until and unless the power is not given to him . There is no doubt that he deserved to rule the country as a result of the elections.
Now, the result of those election did nothing to bring stability to the country but caused a bigger rift than it was there to begin with.

As far as I am concerned, I see this as a gross failure of political parties than the army defeat. Had Bhutto not resisted the invitation of Mujeeb for all political candidates to assemble in East Pakistan, we might have avoided the fall of Dhakka. The mistakes were made from both parts, and it was not mere depriving the east Pakistani people their right to govern. Mujeeb was in cahoots with Indians from the day one.

This is why I said that anyone who refused, stop and resist the negotiations and meeting is not really a politician. Politicians meet with their sworn enemy to find the solutions of the problems. Ik being stubborn and totally egotistic, refuse any talk and any viable solution.
I don't think this situation is anywhere critical as we seen back in 1971 except that when you condole violence and burn the properties than force must be used to prevent destruction. Any election under this poisonous environment will only destabilize the country and push it in to a series of crisis. Only solution out is through talk and negotiation.

Let's leave Bengalis aside as I completely agree that partition of east and west was inevitable hainv a giant enemy in the middle.

Coming to current political scenario, PTI did take part in negotiations and they put forward their legit demands which were outright refused simply because elections does not suit the other party.

For this one cannot hold PTI responsible as they tried their part but the other party was simply using delay tactics.

And why would a party that is desperately trying to make atmosphere so that they can have elections resort to violence? It just does not make any sense.

You just don't burn the whole city down for few miscreants. Same happened in 2007 when BB was assassinated but Army did not fire on protesters even when they were burning and destroying everything. They could have done the same this time too but they were inciting people by torturing them and mistreating protesters and then the rest was done by people coming out of military truck. I am sure you have seen that video on this forum

 

[FaisalKh]

Look man , if you really think that way than those millions of Urdu speaking people who migrated to Pakistan rightfully call themselves Muhajirs. Those Afghanis who still have not become the nationals of country stays Afghans and this is what you call them. Those Muhajirs who left India too came to Pakistan are Pakistanis, not Indian Muhajirs after 75 years of living here. What is so difficult about it.

Afghans that you are talking about have been living in KPK for thousands of years. Afghan is not a nationality it is caste just like Punjabi. Caling someone Punjabi does not make them anti Pakistan. Same is true with Muhajirs if they call themselves Muhajirs what is wrong about that? Never heard of them calling themselves Indian Muhajir.

This is a fact they migrated from India but they do consider themselves as Pakistani but if you keep reminding them that you are not from here and have moved from India and do not give them their rights then again I will ask you why it is wrong for them to breakaway from Pakistan?

 

[Siberite]

Let's leave Bengalis aside as I completely agree that partition of east and west was inevitable hainv a giant enemy in the middle.

Coming to current political scenario, PTI did take part in negotiations and they put forward their legit demands which were outright refused simply because elections does not suit the other party.

Who told you that ? He was given a date in late August to have the general election of all assemblies together. He refused to accept it and kept insisting that it must be done in May and it will only be Punjab assembly election. What's wrong with August election?

For this one cannot hold PTI responsible as they tried their part but the other party was simply using delay tactics.

They can't take their responsivity out when they quit the negotiation and abandoned the talk on the direction of IK.

And why would a party that is desperately trying to make atmosphere so that they can have elections resort to violence? It just does not make any sense.

There is a issue with having election on different dates. And this goes back to the flaw within the system. To address the concerns of the political parties and came up with the idea of interim government which are responsible to hold the fair elections. If the one province or other will have the elections earlier, then the party which win that election will control the electoral proceeding and the other parties will not accept the result of those elections. This is why it is important that elections should be done on a same day .
what If Ik lose the eelction ? Would he accept his defeat ? Lets consider if the interim Governemnt rig the election . We will have an even bigger issue on our hand

You just don't burn the whole city down for few miscreants. Same happened in 2007 when BB was assassinated but Army did not fire on protesters even when they were burning and destroying everything. They could have done the same this time too but they were inciting people by torturing them and mistreating protesters and then the rest was done by people coming out of military truck. I am sure you have seen that video on this forum

Who was inciting people ? PTI lower leadership and local leaders could be heard passing on the instructions to their goons to burn down the buildings .