Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

This debate will never end. I request everyone to respect each others religion. There are many doors to paradise. Quran is the main source that everyone should refer to and not youtube. I bet most of us dont even know 1% of the Qurans meaning. Start from the first ayaat and first learn yourself then debate with others.

lā ilaha (there is no God)



illela Allahu, Muhammad ur-rasul Ullah (but Allah, Muhammad [peace be upon him] is the messenger of Allah)


First Allah then his Rasool pbuh

Those who believe there is God but someone else who equals with Muhammad pbuh (God forbid) Then there is no God for you.


Quran is the most interesting book yet most of us dont take interest in it.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Yahan believe se murad Prophet (PBUH) pe believe hai... yani k Muslim Qaum.

Believe se murad Allah pe believe nahi hai because Allah pe believe ki separate condition issi ayyet main hai.

So it is lamha-e-Fikriya for those present day Muslims .... jin k liye Nabi ki zaat Allah se bhi ziada zaroori hai....



Ya baat ap ko is Ayat ny kub batai Explain please.



k yahaan believe se murad Prophet (PBUH) pe believe hai


Ayat main tu nai hy


Just to nulify your stance further

Sura Hadid
(28. O you who believe! Have Taqwa of Allah,and believe in His Messenger, He will give you a double portion of His mercy, and He will give you a light by which you shall walk (straight). And He will forgive you. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) (29. So that the People of the Scriptures may know that they have no power whatsoever over the grace of Allah, and that (His) grace is in His Hand to bestow it on whomsoever He wills. And Allah is the Owner of great bounty.)
 
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iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Ya baat ap ko is Ayat ny kub batai Explain please.



k yahaan believe se murad Prophet (PBUH) pe believe hai


Ayat main tu nai hy


Just to nulify your stance further

Sura Hadid
(28. O you who believe! Have Taqwa of Allah,and believe in His Messenger, He will give you a double portion of His mercy, and He will give you a light by which you shall walk (straight). And He will forgive you. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) (29. So that the People of the Scriptures may know that they have no power whatsoever over the grace of Allah, and that (His) grace is in His Hand to bestow it on whomsoever He wills. And Allah is the Owner of great bounty.)

iss ayyet (2:62) main believe ka specific meaning hai jo k Khuda pe believe nahi hai ... Prophet (PBUH) pe beieve hai... because Khuda pe believe ka issi ayyet main separate condition k taur pe zikkar hai...

Lehaza doosri aayyat ko quote kar k 2:62 main 'believe' ka meaning determine nahi kiya ja sakta....

57:28 ka better translation (in the light of preceding verses) Ashraf Thanwi Sahib ka following hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont][/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اے (عیسیٰؑ ) پر ایمان رکھنے والو تم اللہ سے ڈرو اور اس کے رسول ﷺ پر ایمان لاؤ اللہ تعالیٰ تم کو اپنی رحمت سے (ثواب کے ) دو حصے دے گا اور تم کو ایسا نور عنایت کرے گا کہ تم اسکو لئے ہوئے چلتے پھرتے ہوگے اور تم کو بخشدیگا اوراللہ غفورو رحیم ہے ۔ (۲۸)

[/FONT]
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Aur ab ye na kehna shuru ho jaana k ye ayyet 2:62/5:69 ko negate kar rahi hai... Balke ye ayyet 2:62/5:69 ko mazeed explain kar rahi hai ... Jo christian Allah k dar k sath Rasool pe bhi eman le aayein gy on ko sawab k [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]two superior parts[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] milein gy.

Next ayyet k muttabiq ye aisa Allah ka fazzal ho ga k even 2:62/5:69 wale ahl-e-Kitaab tak bhi Khuda k iss fazzal ki rassai nahi ho gi.

Secondly ... 57:28 main Christians k liye compulsory Hukkam nahi hai balke optional offer hai. Jo option ko accept karein gy wo ziada faede main rahein gy....[/FONT]
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

please read about these concepts of translations
Fidelity
transparency


AND AND
concept of BACK TRANSLATION and why it is used


next time please respond when you have read about it.

you are yet to answer that wich word of the Ayath is translated as Communities

Dear brother, you need to realise that almost all quranic translations are based upon make beliefs of translators. This is very much obvious in any translation that you pick out for yourself.

Many a time you will see additions based upon hadith which themselves are not necessarily authentic so it is they who you need to question not me.

From my point of view the quran is not an ordinary text that you can put it in to category and render it that way. It is a book that needs figuring out for the best over all context, surah context and verse context and that is why it then needs to be translated as such. It is fundamental to try and see who is the quran addressing and why it is addressing the people that it does or how it addressing etc etc. All this then can be made part of over all sense one gets by reading the quran as a whole, as a part in sense of a surah or verse. If you try and translate the quran any other way, you are going to take a verse in many different directions just because of meanings the words have. This is why people are able to see their all sorts of make beliefs in the quran. This does not mean my translation is free of that bias but that I an using rules of wisdom as basis then taking the quranic meanings in accordance to that rather than interpreting each word and then saying well this means this and that and that as well so one can have this belief as well as that because that is in the quran.

For example, look at translations by brelavies and deobandies. You will see that things they differ about they detail those words in the verses their own ways eg compare transaltions of ahmad raza khan marhoom and ashraf ali thanavi marhoom. You can compare wahabi translation with them and again you will see same thing. There is hardly any translation without additions of words that you are complaining about. The difference is only as I pointed out. So to expects unexpected is not right particularly when people have accepted this for centuries. You may not have read translations by shah brothers ie shah abdul qaadir and shah rafi uddeen and if you compared them to later translations you will see later translators add more explanations in their translations.

See also modoodi translation and see words added in it or left out of it.

http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/001/surah_all.htm
http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/002/surah_all.htm


Today as world is becoming a global village and quran is spread throughout and lot of objections have been raised and the only way these objections could answered is by adding further explanations within the translations. So we have muslim and muslim discusion and muslim and nonmuslim discusion and each has its own problems which in my view can be solved if we all worked according to ideas expressed by muslim scholars throughout time ie sticking to facts and formulas rather than mere make beliefs.

The quranic translations by their very nature bend the quranic understanding towards the understanding of the translators. The problem is whether any of those understandings can be back up by logic and facts or not.

http://www.nooremadinah.net/Al-Quran/TransComparisonEnglish/TransComparisonEnglish.asp

See following link, this is about translation of the quran by ahmad raza khan. See surahs one and two. In here have a look at bismillah translation. Can you explain why it is taken as such when like you say there are no arabic words to match these words? I hope you know that brelavi muslims are a great majority in india and pakistan and ahmad raza khan is their imaam.

http://www.alahazrat.net/alquran/Quran/index.html

Not only that but there are words in the quran that are left out of translation because they are though to be extra and therefore are not needed. This means people are omitting some words of the quran from their translations. Again it is because if you tried to convert them in any other language they will mess up the translations. This is proof enough that people translate the quran the way the text makes sense to them. They also justify their translations by putting forth their arguments which people accept and tat is why they follow them.

This is why to me whether you add any word in translation or leave out is not a big issue and it never was for past translations of the quran. The only valid point is whether you can back it up logically or not.

The other point is not to take the quran like any other document for its translation because human works are human works and they are produced by people with a particular purpose in mind which is common knowledge. Therefore some of the rules of translations apply more to them than religious texts. The difference is that we do not translate legal documents in sense of what we believe but what is required by law of the land. We have well defined legal terms which we use etc etc. Likewise when we translate a scientific document we are familiar with scientific terminology etc etc. Despite this translations could end up wrong that is why courts deal with lots of cases of copyright materials for example and likewise disputes of other nature. All this due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding, misrepresentation and human errors. So at the end of the day it is arguments that help court decide a case not mere accuracy of translation.

Religious text are translated by individuals to express their understanding of the message and it is not necessary that it is true representation of the original. If your mind accepts it fine it does not then move on to another. This is why people change from sect to sect or religion to religion and even from religions to nonreligion and nonreligion to religion. You read one translation and think religion is rubbish yet you read another and think it is great.

To think a lol of different ways about things needs a lot of experience in life. sir syed, farahi, iqbal, parwez etc spent a lot of life studying various aspects of islam in contrast to reality of real world and drew some rules and those rules are 100% valid even though they themselves were not able to complete their works on the quran and islam as a whole.

For anyone to reach that stage one has to become a free thinker and that is hell of long and hard struggle particular from within muslim society because when one leaves make beliefs one is condemned from all sides so one has to be strong enough to take all this beating upon himself and come through unscathed. This is why a mullahs is a mullah and not sir syed. A mullahs is a mullahs and not farahi, a mullahs is a mullahs and not iqbal, a mullahs is a mullah and not parwez. I think ghamdi is well on his way but whether he reaches that stage remains to be seen. Even though I would not categorise modoodi, dr israr and dr qadri, dr adeel etc as mullahs but they are far too close to mullahs to be categorised as muslim free thinkers of islam.

I hope you try and understand what has ben pointed out so far.

regards and all the best.


Surah 93 verse 7

Did He not find you wandering and guide you? (An English Translation published in Beirut Lebanon by Dar-Al-Choura).

And He found thee wondering, and He gave the guidance. (Abdullah Yousuf Ali).

And found thee lost on the way and guided thee? (Mohammad Asad).

And He found thee wandering in search for Him and guided thee unto Himself. (Maulvi Sher Ali Qadiani).

And He found thee wandering, so He guided thee. (Abdul Majid Daryabadi).

And found thee groping, so He showed the way. (Maulana Mohammad Ali Lahori Qadiani).

And He found you uninformed of Islamic Laws so He told you the way of islamic laws. (Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi),

Did He not find thee erring and guided thee? (Arberry).

Did He not find thee wandering and direct thee? (Pickthal).

And saw you unaware of the way so showed you straight way. (Maulana Fateh Mohammad Jallendhri).


" And He found you drown in His Love therefore gave way unto Him "
(Aalahazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan).
 
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iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You said
Islam prophet (PBUH) pe eman ka naam nahi hai.

ok agar Koi Muslaman hazoor SW par emaan na laye tu bhi wo Muslaman he hoa??


And is Ayat ko Ap ki logic pay parkhain tu phir Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko Man na zaroori nahi. kyn k is Ayat main tu unk liye asi koi sharat nahi hy.


(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

and is Aayt main bhi

(69. Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

Tu is ka matlab hoa 2:62 and 5:69 k mutabik Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko man na lazim nahi na man kar bhi gham sy nijat yafta hoon gy???? THINK then answer.

and by they way have you forget 5:68

(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .'' Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve.)

Quran is saying they have nothing if they do not act on Injeel Tawarah and WHAT have send down . Injeel and Tawarah and WHAT have send down sub Hazoor SW par emaan laina ka kahty hain wo Hazoor SW par emaan na la kar Injeel tawaraw and What have sent down par ACT nahi kar rahy so they have nothing as per this Ayath.


By the way
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
[/FONT]

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
Is Ayat k baad kis bartay par kahty ho k wo JEW Christain rahna chahin tu Rah sakty hain.
Un sy Allah ny wada lia wo Tora unk Baap DADA ny hukam dia wo nahi mana magar phir bhi Gham sy nijat yafta ???? Kuch socho


and think ka 2:62 ki roo sy tu Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW par eman lazim nahi hy kaya asa he hy in your point of view??




[/FONT]

I think all points are already covered in my previous replies.
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
[/FONT]

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
Is Ayat k baad kis bartay par kahty ho k wo JEW Christain rahna chahin tu Rah sakty hain.
Un sy Allah ny wada lia wo Tora unk Baap DADA ny hukam dia wo nahi mana magar phir bhi Gham sy nijat yafta ???? Kuch socho


[/FONT]

Islam Khuda ki obediance ka naam hai aur 2:62/5:69/7:159 wale Christians/Jews Haqooq Allah poore karte hain. Wo siraf "Muslim Qaum" main shamil nahi hain.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iss ayyet (2:62) main believe ka specific meaning hai jo k Khuda pe believe nahi hai ... Prophet (PBUH) pe beieve hai... because Khuda pe believe ka issi ayyet main separate condition k taur pe zikkar hai...

Lehaza doosri aayyat ko quote kar k 2:62 main 'believe' ka meaning determine nahi kiya ja sakta....

57:28 ka better translation (in the light of preceding verses) Ashraf Thanwi Sahib ka following hai....

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اے (عیسیٰؑ ) پر ایمان رکھنے والو تم اللہ سے ڈرو اور اس کے رسول ﷺ پر ایمان لاؤ اللہ تعالیٰ تم کو اپنی رحمت سے (ثواب کے ) دو حصے دے گا اور تم کو ایسا نور عنایت کرے گا کہ تم اسکو لئے ہوئے چلتے پھرتے ہوگے اور تم کو بخشدیگا اوراللہ غفورو رحیم ہے ۔ (۲۸)

[/FONT]
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Aur ab ye na kehna shuru ho jaana k ye ayyet 2:62/5:69 ko negate kar rahi hai... Balke ye ayyet 2:62/5:69 ko mazeed explain kar rahi hai ... Jo christian Allah k dar k sath Rasool pe bhi eman le aayein gy on ko sawab k [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]two superior parts[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] milein gy.

Next ayyet k muttabiq ye aisa Allah ka fazzal ho ga k even 2:62/5:69 wale ahl-e-Kitaab tak bhi Khuda k iss fazzal ki rassai nahi ho gi.

Secondly ... 57:28 main Christians k liye compulsory Hukkam nahi hai balke optional offer hai. Jo option ko accept karein gy wo ziada faede main rahein gy....[/FONT]


(29. So that the People of the Scriptures may know that they have no power whatsoever over the grace of Allah, and that (His) grace is in His Hand to bestow it on whomsoever He wills. And Allah is the Owner of great bounty.)

Is Ayat ko Mila kar apni translation ko check karloo. and 28 main [FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور تم کو بخشدیگا[/FONT]
Bakhs dainay k liye ka condition hy is Ayat main?? Post karna zara


Waisay 5:13 main tu 2:89 main koi OPTIONAL offer nai thi but wahaan par bhi you did not accept.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Islam Khuda ki obediance ka naam hai aur 2:62/5:69/7:159 wale Christians/Jews Haqooq Allah poore karte hain. Wo siraf "Muslim Qaum" main shamil nahi hain.

Is Ayat main DEEN bhi Islam ko hi Pasand farmaya ka kaha gaya hy.
Ub jo Jew/ Christain rahy ga wo Apny RUB , Baap Dada sub ki baat ko rad kary ga
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I think all points are already covered in my previous replies.


No you dont

(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .'' Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve.)

Quran is saying they have nothing if they do not act on Injeel Tawarah and WHAT have send down . Injeel and Tawarah and WHAT have send down sub Hazoor SW par emaan laina ka kahty hain wo Hazoor SW par emaan na la kar Injeel tawaraw and What have sent down par ACT nahi kar rahy so they have nothing as per this Ayath.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother, you need to realise that almost all quranic translations are based upon make beliefs of translators. This is very much obvious in any translation that you pick out for yourself.

Many a time you will see additions based upon hadith which themselves are not necessarily authentic so it is they who you need to question not me.

From my point of view the quran is not an ordinary text that you can put it in to category and render it that way. It is a book that needs figuring out for the best over all context, surah context and verse context and that is why it then needs to be translated as such. It is fundamental to try and see who is the quran addressing and why it is addressing the people that it does or how it addressing etc etc. All this then can be made part of over all sense one gets by reading the quran as a whole, as a part in sense of a surah or verse. If you try and translate the quran any other way, you are going to take a verse in many different directions just because of meanings the words have. This is why people are able to see their all sorts of make beliefs in the quran. This does not mean my translation is free of that bias but that I an using rules of wisdom as basis then taking the quranic meanings in accordance to that rather than interpreting each word and then saying well this means this and that and that as well so one can have this belief as well as that because that is in the quran.

For example, look at translations by brelavies and deobandies. You will see that things they differ about they detail those words in the verses their own ways eg compare transaltions of ahmad raza khan marhoom and ashraf ali thanavi marhoom. You can compare wahabi translation with them and again you will see same thing. There is hardly any translation without additions of words that you are complaining about. The difference is only as I pointed out. So to expects unexpected is not right particularly when people have accepted this for centuries. You may not have read translations by shah brothers ie shah abdul qaadir and shah rafi uddeen and if you compared them to later translations you will see later translators add more explanations in their translations.

See also modoodi translation and see words added in it or left out of it.

http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/001/surah_all.htm
http://www.tafheemulquran.org/Tafhim_u/002/surah_all.htm


Today as world is becoming a global village and quran is spread throughout and lot of objections have been raised and the only way these objections could answered is by adding further explanations within the translations. So we have muslim and muslim discusion and muslim and nonmuslim discusion and each has its own problems which in my view can be solved if we all worked according to ideas expressed by muslim scholars throughout time ie sticking to facts and formulas rather than mere make beliefs.

The quranic translations by their very nature bend the quranic understanding towards the understanding of the translators. The problem is whether any of those understandings can be back up by logic and facts or not.

http://www.nooremadinah.net/Al-Quran/TransComparisonEnglish/TransComparisonEnglish.asp

See following link, this is about translation of the quran by ahmad raza khan. See surahs one and two. In here have a look at bismillah translation. Can you explain why it is taken as such when like you say there are no arabic words to match these words? I hope you know that brelavi muslims are a great majority in india and pakistan and ahmad raza khan is their imaam.

http://www.alahazrat.net/alquran/Quran/index.html

Not only that but there are words in the quran that are left out of translation because they are though to be extra and therefore are not needed. This means people are omitting some words of the quran from their translations. Again it is because if you tried to convert them in any other language they will mess up the translations. This is proof enough that people translate the quran the way the text makes sense to them. They also justify their translations by putting forth their arguments which people accept and tat is why they follow them.

This is why to me whether you add any word in translation or leave out is not a big issue and it never was for past translations of the quran. The only valid point is whether you can back it up logically or not.

The other point is not to take the quran like any other document for its translation because human works are human works and they are produced by people with a particular purpose in mind which is common knowledge. Therefore some of the rules of translations apply more to them than religious texts. The difference is that we do not translate legal documents in sense of what we believe but what is required by law of the land. We have well defined legal terms which we use etc etc. Likewise when we translate a scientific document we are familiar with scientific terminology etc etc. Despite this translations could end up wrong that is why courts deal with lots of cases of copyright materials for example and likewise disputes of other nature. All this due to misinterpretation or misunderstanding, misrepresentation and human errors. So at the end of the day it is arguments that help court decide a case not mere accuracy of translation.

Religious text are translated by individuals to express their understanding of the message and it is not necessary that it is true representation of the original. If your mind accepts it fine it does not then move on to another. This is why people change from sect to sect or religion to religion and even from religions to nonreligion and nonreligion to religion. You read one translation and think religion is rubbish yet you read another and think it is great.

To think a lol of different ways about things needs a lot of experience in life. sir syed, farahi, iqbal, parwez etc spent a lot of life studying various aspects of islam in contrast to reality of real world and drew some rules and those rules are 100% valid even though they themselves were not able to complete their works on the quran and islam as a whole.

For anyone to reach that stage one has to become a free thinker and that is hell of long and hard struggle particular from within muslim society because when one leaves make beliefs one is condemned from all sides so one has to be strong enough to take all this beating upon himself and come through unscathed. This is why a mullahs is a mullah and not sir syed. A mullahs is a mullahs and not farahi, a mullahs is a mullahs and not iqbal, a mullahs is a mullah and not parwez. I think ghamdi is well on his way but whether he reaches that stage remains to be seen. Even though I would not categorise modoodi, dr israr and dr qadri, dr adeel etc as mullahs but they are far too close to mullahs to be categorised as muslim free thinkers of islam.

I hope you try and understand what has ben pointed out so far.

regards and all the best.


Surah 93 verse 7

Did He not find you wandering and guide you? (An English Translation published in Beirut Lebanon by Dar-Al-Choura).

And He found thee wondering, and He gave the guidance. (Abdullah Yousuf Ali).

And found thee lost on the way and guided thee? (Mohammad Asad).

And He found thee wandering in search for Him and guided thee unto Himself. (Maulvi Sher Ali Qadiani).

And He found thee wandering, so He guided thee. (Abdul Majid Daryabadi).

And found thee groping, so He showed the way. (Maulana Mohammad Ali Lahori Qadiani).

And He found you uninformed of Islamic Laws so He told you the way of islamic laws. (Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi),

Did He not find thee erring and guided thee? (Arberry).

Did He not find thee wandering and direct thee? (Pickthal).

And saw you unaware of the way so showed you straight way. (Maulana Fateh Mohammad Jallendhri).


" And He found you drown in His Love therefore gave way unto Him "
(Aalahazrat Imam Ahmed Raza Khan).


It can be said in few lines bhai :(

any way

1) No matter how much greater Imam or Scholor someone is if he OMIT or ADD words to any translation of Quran without clearifying that I add these words etc.. he is doing wrong.
2) If a word have many meaning and a person use one meaning and other user second then there is no issue. BUT if someone use A word that is no way can be translated it in that word then it is wrong.




So using Range of avialble words can be justified but using out of range words is Dishonesty with the translation.
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[MENTION=13100]Abdul Allah[/MENTION]

I have read your all points. You have nothing solid. So enjoy yourself. You Win...!!!
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

@Abdul Allah

I have read your all points. You have nothing solid. So enjoy yourself. You Win...!!!


It is not a matter of winning or losing.

lets referesh the discussion.

1) They break Convent
Breaking convent Allah said Curse(No exception in that exception was not for Allah curse)

2) Then did not believe on Quran and did not act on it also they did not act on injeel/Tawarah
No exception given at all
Allah said those who did not belive on Allah's Book are cursed

3) They remain Jew and Christains
Allah said only deen is Islam their fore fathers(prophets) said they must become Muslims and die as muslim
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

@Abdul Allah

I have read your all points. You have nothing solid. So enjoy yourself. You Win...!!!


2:112


[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جو کوئی شخص[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] بھی اپنا رُخ الله تعالیٰ کی طرف جھکاوے اور وہ مخلص بھی ہو تو ایسے شخص کو اس کا عوض ملتا ہے اس کے پروردگار کے پاس پہنچکر اور نہ ایسے لوگوں پر (قیامت میں) کوئی اندیشہ ہے اور نہ ایسے لوگ (اس روز) مغموم ہونے والے ہیں[/FONT]

Is Ayat main Jo koi Shahkhs kaha gya hy and Hazoor SW ko man ny ki sharat bhi nahi hy

So It means Kisi par bhi Hazoor SW par EMan laina faraz nahi hy?? even for muslims??

If No then Why

If yes Then WHy
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

1) They break Convent
Breaking convent Allah said Curse(No exception in that exception was not for Allah curse)

They don't break convent relating to Haqooq Allah and Haqooq-al-ibaad. They are few in number. And they are not under curse.

2) Then did not believe on Quran and did not act on it also they did not act on injeel/Tawarah
No exception given at all
Allah said those who did not belive on Allah's Book are cursed

2:62/5:69 wale log Haqooq Allah poore karte hain so they believe in Allah's book/s

3) They remain Jew and Christains
Allah said only deen is Islam their fore fathers(prophets) said they must become Muslims and die as muslim

I already explained all these points ... you are now left with no point except to repeat your points to make illuision that you are still in. In fact you are out but are not ready to go back to povilion. So it is better that I go to povilion so you keep on standing on wicket bare handed without bat (any solid point).

Leave this topic now ... at least you might have learned that it is not so simple a matter as to just change wording of few verses and everything becomes smooth.


Good bye and take care
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

2:112


[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جو کوئی شخص[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] بھی اپنا رُخ الله تعالیٰ کی طرف جھکاوے اور وہ مخلص بھی ہو تو ایسے شخص کو اس کا عوض ملتا ہے اس کے پروردگار کے پاس پہنچکر اور نہ ایسے لوگوں پر (قیامت میں) کوئی اندیشہ ہے اور نہ ایسے لوگ (اس روز) مغموم ہونے والے ہیں[/FONT]

Is Ayat main Jo koi Shahkhs kaha gya hy and Hazoor SW ko man ny ki sharat bhi nahi hy

So It means Kisi par bhi Hazoor SW par EMan laina faraz nahi hy?? even for muslims??

If No then Why

If yes Then WHy

You are again wrong ... despite I already explained points which you now raise. If you say no I did not explain tis point then I will copy my previous reply.

What I said was that .... wo "shakhs" mukhlis hai ... lehaza agar wo already Muslim hai phir wo Khuda ko iss tarah daj nahi kare ga ... apne mukhlis hone ki waja se wo Muslim methods ko follow kare ga. Agar wo Muslim nahi bhi hai ... aur ye conditions fulfill kar raha hai ... phir Allah zaroor apna wada poora kare ga.

Aik zamana tha (jis ka Quran bhi gawah hai) jab Jews/Christians kahte thay siraf hum log he jannat main jaein gy. Aur ab ye zamana hai ... .... Muslims kehte hain k siraf wo Jannat main jaen gy.

"Muslim Qaum ki haalat Jews se mushaba ho jae gi" .... (Hadith)
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

They don't break convent relating to Haqooq Allah and Haqooq-al-ibaad. They are few in number. And they are not under curse.



2:62/5:69 wale log Haqooq Allah poore karte hain so they believe in Allah's book/s



I already explained all these points ... you are now left with no point except to repeat your points to make illuision that you are still in. In fact you are out but are not ready to go back to povilion. So it is better that I go to povilion so you keep on standing on wicket bare handed without bat (any solid point).

Leave this topic now ... at least you might have learned that it is not so simple a matter as to just change wording of few verses and everything becomes smooth.


Good bye and take care

HaqooQ Allah puray katy hain So they Believe in Allah's Book? Are you in your senses??? Kaya Book of Allah main aur kuch nahi hy

(89. And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur'an) from Allah confirming what is with them (the Tawrah) and the Injil (Gospel), although aforetime they had invoked Allah in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the curse of Allah be on the disbelievers.)

Kahaan likha hy k HaqooQ puray karny sy Book par Believe hogaya?? Kahaan likha hy k Apni marzi ki batoon ko man kar Book par believe ho gaya

is Main Book par believe ka likha hy HaqooQ ka nahi.

So jis ny Book ka aik part bhi nai mana wo Is Ayath k under a jata hy.

Kuch Kuaf-e-Khuada karloo.


Ayat main Convent break karny ka hy Adha Tota paja Wada pura karny ka nahi.


You have sense less argumetns like

Unhoon ny Haqooq Allah puray kiye so They belive on Book.
 
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Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You are again wrong ... despite I already explained points which you now raise. If you say no I did not explain tis point then I will copy my previous reply.

What I said was that .... wo "shakhs" mukhlis hai ... lehaza agar wo already Muslim hai phir wo Khuda ko iss tarah daj nahi kare ga ... apne mukhlis hone ki waja se wo Muslim methods ko follow kare ga. Agar wo Muslim nahi bhi hai ... aur ye conditions fulfill kar raha hai ... phir Allah zaroor apna wada poora kare ga.

Aik zamana tha (jis ka Quran bhi gawah hai) jab Jews/Christians kahte thay siraf hum log he jannat main jaein gy. Aur ab ye zamana hai ... .... Muslims kehte hain k siraf wo Jannat main jaen gy.

"Muslim Qaum ki haalat Jews se mushaba ho jae gi" .... (Hadith)


Kaya ya is Ayat main hay?? k AGAR wo Muslim hy tu Ya warna Wo warna falaan??? is main likha hy k Jo Shakhas

So do not go here and there and just answer.
 

iceburg

Banned
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

^^ I am replying without reading your post. Now I will not read your reply. Jo marzi samajhte raho .... Ye pehle se Muqqaddar tha k Muslims ne Jews se Mushaba hona he tha.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

@Abdul Allah

I have read your all points. You have nothing solid. So enjoy yourself. You Win...!!!



(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .

Surah Al-Maeda : Verse 68

They Have nothing untill they act on injeel/Tawarah and Quran. (it is not said k jitna dil karay utna)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

^^ I am replying without reading your post. Now I will not read your reply. Jo marzi samajhte raho .... Ye pehle se Muqqaddar tha k Muslims ne Jews se Mushaba hona he tha.


Did they said it according to thier books of Allah??

I am saying everthing as per Book of Allah
(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .

Surah Al-Maeda : Verse 68

They Have nothing untill they act on injeel/Tawarah and Quran. (it is not said k jitna dil karay utna)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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