Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Bhai 5:13 kahti k jis ny promise PURA nai kia wo Allah k curse ka hakdar hy

Ub agar ap ya kahty ho k 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 main jin ka zikar hy unhoon y promise nai PURA kia phir tu ya 5:13 ki Mojodgi main possible nahi hy.

Durguzar ka taluk Exception sy nahi hy Ayath k Tasalsul check karo
And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook

Exception ka zikar deceit sy hy k kuch hain jo deceit nai karty. is context main "But forgive them and overlook" ko parho.


mujhy yakeen nai ata k 5:13 main saaf likha k jis ny Wada PURA nai kia yaan you can say WADA TORA wo curse main hain Allah k and you are saying k 5:69,2:62 and 7:159 main jo log hain unhoon y wada pura nai kia.

5:13 is subject to an exception. It is quite easy exception. You also understand well. So you better not try to deliberately complicate things with intention to make deceptions.

5:13 is subject to exception. And I am not going to explain it further as I understand that you understand that exception. Only thing is that you are not willing to accept. And I am not here to make you accept anything.

I only advise you to be honest with yourself and with Word of God.

Regards!

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I asked you so you should answer .

should i go and read all your posts to get answer of my few lines??

and please post "Translation" of the Ayath i post.

Will try to go through the links but i have listen this guys but he failed to prove a scholor. his speech on Shan Nazool was so baseless that even a child could have answer him.


Any way please

Post the Translation "Translation" not interpretations. "Tarjuma" not Tafseer

Brother Abdullah, you are saying that alaama parwez is no scholar because he refutes concept of shaane nazool. Do you know his stance on shaane nazool as to why he does not accept it as a valid concept?

It is because he is looking at the quran as guidance for mankind by their creator. If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that? Is that how your parents guided you and is that how you are going to guide your children or guidance is supposed to be given well ahead of people making mistakes so that they learn and stay safe?

Anywhere you take on a new job, you are given all necessary instructions before you start so that you do not make mistakes and ruin the company you work for. They do not wait till you have ruined the company and then tell you, you should not do this or that or that you should do this or that. shaane nazool turns the purpose of revelation of the quran in to a nonsense. It is the reason the idea was invented to take the quranic text out of its proper context by means of instilling wrong concepts in minds of people right from their childhood. This is why kings did not build ilmi darsgahs but madrassas and masjid and put in them teachers and imaams who indoctrinated children and adults with their objectively set out agendas. This is why ummah turned in to slaves of ruling elite and mullahs and sarmayadars. This is how and why brotherhood of muslims on basis of the quran was ended and muslms became enemies of each other instead.

Your problem is you are not trying to understand the connection between various anti islam parties in order to use and abuse masses. This is what divide and rule is all about.

So if you want to understand the quran then you must leave alone make belief ideas as basis for your understanding of the quranic message. As for my translation of the quran, it is going to take time because it is not an easy task to accomplish. It is because the quranic text is far too complex to make sense of it. If you have read the quran with presence of mind you would have noticed that this text conveys various valid concepts within the very same piece of text. Not only that but it emphasis one aspect as compared to others and while in doing so it changes emphasis between various fields of knowledge along the way. It is because the quran is all about set up of a great human society and such a society needs to be comprised of very knowledgeable individuals therefore people need to become those individuals before they could really understand the quranic message. This is why any translator has to keep going back and forth in order to keep the context of the quranic text consistent in his translation as well. This is why it proves to be beyond creation of humanity because it deal with such vast amount of information in such a short text to such a highest level of thinking. Despite all efforts by all people quran cannot be translated perfectly in to any other language ever because other languages lack similar words and their uses and meanings. It therefore only makes perfect sense in its own original language to those who also are aware of what it is talking about.

Let us take it for example from the very 2nd verse of surah 20 TAA HAA. It starts, MAA ANZALNAA ALAIKAL QURAANA LI TASHQAA. I take it to mean, We have not sent this quran to you the people to let you continue living in tyranny,

Here the address particle ie the 2nd person pronoun in singular form is not for the prophet but the prophet and all his supporters or his ummah ie you the people as a whole to whom the quran is given by Allah. This shows the purpose for revelation of God is not to cause sectarianism or divide among people but to unite them by removing divide based upon exploitation of masses by a few.

TASHQAA is from root SHEEN, QAAF and YAA. It does have various meanings eg distress, difficulty, problem, hardship etc etc. Which meanings would fit better with context remains to be seen as we go through this surah verse by verse together.

The reason I am taking it to mean this is because quran is all about bringing about a good human community. You cannot bring about a good human society unless you approach other people with your message and share your concerns for society and its people and convince them to your thinking or point of view.

What do you think the next verse means and why? BTW you are free to be critical of my translation of the verse, it will only help us both to learn from each other.

regards and all the best

 

[Hadith]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

When you just listen from others and comment it is difficult to analyse, I suggest you to read Pervaiz books in detail and all of them then think with open mind, and its not only him its true for all scholors you read, suggestion is do not make decision and then start reading, be open and then, there may be things which I disagree with prevaiz writing, but I just keep my brain open and question everything and analyse it.
For his books RULE # 1 I adopted is one thing is true as first Hadith book was written about 300 years after prophetPBUH death, there cannot be a direct direct statement, so as by reading Bokhari, Muslim etc I came to conclusion that there are many things in them which can be challanged for its health, while the latest news was that about 3000 hadith were taken out of those books recently, so the hadith books at the most can be said as evolving and in process of scrutiny,as its human writings.RULE # 2 is a research rule which I learned during my PhD in USA, to check a sample we only campare it with purest results and then think about variation, we do not twist pure to match our results but we challange results on base of comparison to purity. Now when we consider that Quran to be perfect and unchanged the if any hadith which goes against Quranic rules should be re evaluated. and this is due to reasons given in Hadith books,
#1 Do not spread rumors( which means listened from others) without verification.and every hadith has minimum of 10 to 15 people who state that they just listened from elders or heard someone said.Now you make decision by self.
#2 If any hadith challange quran just disregard it, as we do not change measuring tools for every observation, scale is always standard which is decided as quran.
This will explain pervaiz,thinking and his logic.
At the end
I myself in my life have seen this hadith varied ie
In last speech Prophet PBUH said while riding his camel, that" I am leaving one thing among you, if you keep it as your guide you will never lose path"
Now it has become "I am leaving two things among you.... and rest remain same.
I argue that what has changed to make this addition?
and those who say it was not changed " I say I am living witness" i wish we had records of books from my time in pakistan. but I have my copy. but the point is
There is another Hadith which says"Nabi do not say and do anything other than what is wahi on him" and all the wahi is saved in quran and it unchanged as we have set our standard for it, then why the books appearing after 300 years(300 hijra) are showing things which has nothing to do with deen, Now this word Deen was used by Pervaiz to start(as he took it from quran) and he differentiated it from Muzhab.And its a big difference. I have no religion anyway but I strive for the truth.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Brother Abdullah, you are saying that alaama parwez is no scholar because he refutes concept of shaane nazool. Do you know his stance on shaane nazool as to why he does not accept it as a valid concept?

It is because he is looking at the quran as guidance for mankind by their creator. If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that? Is that how your parents guided you and is that how you are going to guide your children or guidance is supposed to be given well ahead of people making mistakes so that they learn and stay safe?

Anywhere you take on a new job, you are given all necessary instructions before you start so that you do not make mistakes and ruin the company you work for. They do not wait till you have ruined the company and then tell you, you should not do this or that or that you should do this or that. shaane nazool turns the purpose of revelation of the quran in to a nonsense. It is the reason the idea was invented to take the quranic text out of its proper context by means of instilling wrong concepts in minds of people right from their childhood. This is why kings did not build ilmi darsgahs but madrassas and masjid and put in them teachers and imaams who indoctrinated children and adults with their objectively set out agendas. This is why ummah turned in to slaves of ruling elite and mullahs and sarmayadars. This is how and why brotherhood of muslims on basis of the quran was ended and muslms became enemies of each other instead.

Your problem is you are not trying to understand the connection between various anti islam parties in order to use and abuse masses. This is what divide and rule is all about.

So if you want to understand the quran then you must leave alone make belief ideas as basis for your understanding of the quranic message. As for my translation of the quran, it is going to take time because it is not an easy task to accomplish. It is because the quranic text is far too complex to make sense of it. If you have read the quran with presence of mind you would have noticed that this text conveys various valid concepts within the very same piece of text. Not only that but it emphasis one aspect as compared to others and while in doing so it changes emphasis between various fields of knowledge along the way. It is because the quran is all about set up of a great human society and such a society needs to be comprised of very knowledgeable individuals therefore people need to become those individuals before they could really understand the quranic message. This is why any translator has to keep going back and forth in order to keep the context of the quranic text consistent in his translation as well. This is why it proves to be beyond creation of humanity because it deal with such vast amount of information in such a short text to such a highest level of thinking. Despite all efforts by all people quran cannot be translated perfectly in to any other language ever because other languages lack similar words and their uses and meanings. It therefore only makes perfect sense in its own original language to those who also are aware of what it is talking about.

Let us take it for example from the very 2nd verse of surah 20 TAA HAA. It starts, MAA ANZALNAA ALAIKAL QURAANA LI TASHQAA. I take it to mean, We have not sent this quran to you the people to let you continue living in tyranny,

Here the address particle ie the 2nd person pronoun in singular form is not for the prophet but the prophet and all his supporters or his ummah ie you the people as a whole to whom the quran is given by Allah. This shows the purpose for revelation of God is not to cause sectarianism or divide among people but to unite them by removing divide based upon exploitation of masses by a few.

TASHQAA is from root SHEEN, QAAF and YAA. It does have various meanings eg distress, difficulty, problem, hardship etc etc. Which meanings would fit better with context remains to be seen as we go through this surah verse by verse together.

The reason I am taking it to mean this is because quran is all about bringing about a good human community. You cannot bring about a good human society unless you approach other people with your message and share your concerns for society and its people and convince them to your thinking or point of view.

What do you think the next verse means and why? BTW you are free to be critical of my translation of the verse, it will only help us both to learn from each other.

regards and all the best

1) for you Shan nazool concept and logic. ( as you said If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that?)

Answer to your self by thinking on that

Why Quran did not revealed AT ONCE to Muhammad SW?

Why it takes 23 year to revealed Quran.

as per your logica (If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that?)

it should have been sent AT ONCE. any way this concept of yours have many silly points that can be answered even by a child any way you just post the translation of the verse i am asking

Me waiting.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

5:13 is subject to an exception. It is quite easy exception. You also understand well. So you better not try to deliberately complicate things with intention to make deceptions.

5:13 is subject to exception. And I am not going to explain it further as I understand that you understand that exception. Only thing is that you are not willing to accept. And I am not here to make you accept anything.

I only advise you to be honest with yourself and with Word of God.

Regards!

"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

That is the line of exception

"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

So you are being dishonest to related it to the Convent.
as Ayat no way saying that exception is for breaching Convent.

Bcz For breaching convent Allah first said that those who breach convent are cursed no exception is there then Allah said


"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

So exception is not for breaching convent AND YOU KNOW THAT

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

When you just listen from others and comment it is difficult to analyse, I suggest you to read Pervaiz books in detail and all of them then think with open mind, and its not only him its true for all scholors you read, suggestion is do not make decision and then start reading, be open and then, there may be things which I disagree with prevaiz writing, but I just keep my brain open and question everything and analyse it.
For his books RULE # 1 I adopted is one thing is true as first Hadith book was written about 300 years after prophetPBUH death, there cannot be a direct direct statement, so as by reading Bokhari, Muslim etc I came to conclusion that there are many things in them which can be challanged for its health, while the latest news was that about 3000 hadith were taken out of those books recently, so the hadith books at the most can be said as evolving and in process of scrutiny,as its human writings.RULE # 2 is a research rule which I learned during my PhD in USA, to check a sample we only campare it with purest results and then think about variation, we do not twist pure to match our results but we challange results on base of comparison to purity. Now when we consider that Quran to be perfect and unchanged the if any hadith which goes against Quranic rules should be re evaluated. and this is due to reasons given in Hadith books,
#1 Do not spread rumors( which means listened from others) without verification.and every hadith has minimum of 10 to 15 people who state that they just listened from elders or heard someone said.Now you make decision by self.
#2 If any hadith challange quran just disregard it, as we do not change measuring tools for every observation, scale is always standard which is decided as quran.
This will explain pervaiz,thinking and his logic.
At the end
I myself in my life have seen this hadith varied ie
In last speech Prophet PBUH said while riding his camel, that" I am leaving one thing among you, if you keep it as your guide you will never lose path"
Now it has become "I am leaving two things among you.... and rest remain same.
I argue that what has changed to make this addition?
and those who say it was not changed " I say I am living witness" i wish we had records of books from my time in pakistan. but I have my copy. but the point is
There is another Hadith which says"Nabi do not say and do anything other than what is wahi on him" and all the wahi is saved in quran and it unchanged as we have set our standard for it, then why the books appearing after 300 years(300 hijra) are showing things which has nothing to do with deen, Now this word Deen was used by Pervaiz to start(as he took it from quran) and he differentiated it from Muzhab.And its a big difference. I have no religion anyway but I strive for the truth.

#2 If any hadith challange quran just disregard it, as we do not change measuring tools for every observation, scale is always standard which is decided as quran.
This will explain pervaiz,thinking and his logic.



Well this is an OLD rule in Ilmul Hadith so no credit for prevaiz on that.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

That is the line of exception

"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

So you are being dishonest to related it to the Convent.
as Ayat no way saying that exception is for breaching Convent.

Bcz For breaching convent Allah first said that those who breach convent are cursed no exception is there then Allah said


"And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them. But forgive them and overlook"

So exception is not for breaching convent AND YOU KNOW THAT

Yes they have breached convent. But few of them (who breached convent) are not under curse. Because not only Prophet will "overlook" and forgive them,,,, Allah LOVES those few ppl despite they breached convent.

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]تو صرف ان کی عہد شکنی کی وجہ سے ہم نے ان کو اپنی رحمت سے دور کردیا اور ہم نے ان کے قلوب کو سخت کردیا وہ لوگ کلام کو اس کے مواقع سے بدلتے ہیں اور وہ لوگ جو کچھ ان کو نصیحت کی گئی تھی اس میں سے اپنا ایک بڑا حصّہ فوت کربیٹھے اور آپ کو آئے دن کسی نہ کسی (نئی) خیانت کی اطلاع ہوتی رہتی ہے جو ان سے صادر ہوتی ہے بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے سو آپ ان کو معاف کردیجئیے اور ان سے درگزر کیجئیے۔بلاشبہ الله تعالیٰ خوش معاملہ لوگوں سے محبت کرتا ہے۔ (۱۳)

[/FONT]​

So Allah loves them and you say they are under curse.

​

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Yes they have breached convent. But few of them (who breached convent) are not under curse. Because not only Prophet will "overlook" and forgive them,,,, Allah LOVES those few ppl despite they breached convent.

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]تو صرف ان کی عہد شکنی کی وجہ سے ہم نے ان کو اپنی رحمت سے دور کردیا اور ہم نے ان کے قلوب کو سخت کردیا وہ لوگ کلام کو اس کے مواقع سے بدلتے ہیں اور وہ لوگ جو کچھ ان کو نصیحت کی گئی تھی اس میں سے اپنا ایک بڑا حصّہ فوت کربیٹھے اور آپ کو آئے دن کسی نہ کسی (نئی) خیانت کی اطلاع ہوتی رہتی ہے جو ان سے صادر ہوتی ہے بجز ان میں کے معدودے چند شخصوں کے سو آپ ان کو معاف کردیجئیے اور ان سے درگزر کیجئیے۔بلاشبہ الله تعالیٰ خوش معاملہ لوگوں سے محبت کرتا ہے۔ (۱۳)

[/FONT]​

So Allah loves them and you say they are under curse.

​

Allah k Nadan banday

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بلاشبہ الله تعالیٰ خوش معاملہ لوگوں سے محبت کرتا ہے

is not for them it is for those who forgive and over look.
[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]"Verily, Allah loves the doers of good."

Wada taurny waloon ko Doers of Good kaisay kaha jaskat Inti si baat bhi samjhna mushkil hy?
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]

 

[Muslimpower]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[HI]For those who want to know detailed knowledge about Fina-e-Parvazi
[/HI]

http://www.archive.org/stream/GhulamAhmedPervez-ShakhsiyatAurKirdarByShaykhSyedKhaleeqSajidBukhari#page/n0/mode/1up

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Allah k Nadan banday

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]بلاشبہ الله تعالیٰ خوش معاملہ لوگوں سے محبت کرتا ہے

is not for them it is for those who forgive and over look.
[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]"Verily, Allah loves the doers of good."

Wada taurny waloon ko Doers of Good kaisay kaha jaskat Inti si baat bhi samjhna mushkil hy?
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]

Yes you are right. I wanted you to raise this opoint yourself. So lehaza wo Khush Muamla iss liye hain k jin ko muaf karna hai on ko muaf kar diya ... na k on ko under curse samjha

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Yes you are right. I wanted you to raise this opoint yourself. So lehaza wo Khush Muamla iss liye hain k jin ko muaf karna hai on ko muaf kar diya ... na k on ko under curse samjha

Maufi ka taluk

. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them

Sy hy na k

Convent breach karny par

Convent breach karny walay par Allahg k curse hy

So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Maufi ka taluk

. And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them

Sy hy na k

Convent breach karny par

Convent breach karny walay par Allahg k curse hy

So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard

Aur phir aik exception bhi bata di gayi.

basically present day Muslims are no different to those ancient Jews/Christieans who used to alter and hide places of words to complicate the things and to justify their wrong beliefs.

So carry on. I don't care

 

[TruPakistani]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

The Corrupt Kitab-ul-Taqdir of Pervez

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?7lea2yc51hqhkwh

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

1) for you Shan nazool concept and logic. ( as you said If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that?)

Answer to your self by thinking on that

Why Quran did not revealed AT ONCE to Muhammad SW?

Why it takes 23 year to revealed Quran.

as per your logica (If Allah wants to guide people then why does he need to wait till people make mistakes and suffer consequences for those mistakes and then give them guidance? Where is sense in that?)

it should have been sent AT ONCE. any way this concept of yours have many silly points that can be answered even by a child any way you just post the translation of the verse i am asking

Me waiting.

Dear brother, revelation means different things in different contexts. For example, when we talk about revelation from God to a messenger it means different thing than when we talk about revelation of divine message by the messenger to the people of his time and then the revelation of the divine message from one people to the other.

We do not have any detailed reliable record from the prophet explaining how or when or why the quran was revealed. If we read reports about revelation of the quran in the hadith books they have problems. Other than Allah and his messenger none can explain the nature or mechanism of revelation. All we are told is that Allah revealed the quran to the messenger. It is because revelation from Allah is a unique thing in its nature therefore we can only speculate about it as far as our knowledge goes. Asking the question how exactly God revealed his message to his messengers is like asking how exactly did God create the universe. Just as we cannot understand one, we cannot understand the other. All we know is that universe is there and so is revelation and that both complement each other in a unique way and just as universe was not created by any human nor was any divine revelation. This is why the challenge that if you think the universe was not created by God or the revelation was not sent by God then go ahead and produce them and to do so join all of you together.

Therefore it is not right to claim that Allah revealed the quran to the prophet over 23 years. What makes sense is that even though Allah may have revealed the quran to the prophet at once as a complete program to carry out yet the prophet and the people needed time to implement this program by following a course of action to accomplish the set out goal. It is like some one you are working for tells you to do something for him eg set up a company for doing something and gives you an overall picture or a complete program or complete stages of the program and then you after getting the program make sense of it and carry it out as per your own circumstances and situations. After all islam is a revolutionary ideology for accomplishing peace in the world. This revolution was initiated by the prophet but still has to become accomplished worldwide. The prophet only completed it as much as he could and rest was left to his followers. So mission is not complete yet. From reports we can only say that once the prophet began at age of 40 he continued till he passed away. So his missionary life was 23 years.

If we try to read too much into stories about revelations and things then that gives rise to far too much criticism of reports and their authenticity. It would just prove a waste of time exercise. If you still want to look in to that criticism then read shia books that are critical of sunni hadith books and read sunni books that are critical of shia hadith books and based upon them criticism of islam as a whole by nonmuslims. This is why keeping things simple is better than try to create as many controversies as possible by attaching too many unreliable sources to islam as fundamental part of islam.

Coming to shaane nazool, if you read various tafaseer books then you will see a lot of conflicting reports in them as regard when a surah or any verse or verses were revealed. This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that these reports are not reliable to be relied upon as foundation of islam.

As I said before we need to leave conflicting ways of thinking about islam or things do not look good. The reason is islam is not for us muslims to make whatever we like of it and hold on to it but we have serious responsibility of delivering the message worldwide but at the same time sensibly therefore we are forced by the quran to be sensible and prove that to others. If we remain ignorant and prove to others the same are they going to be convinced that we have the message of God for them? Not only that by being senseless we will not even stop fighting among ourselves, so where is sense in any of this? It is very clear that we are in a lose lose situation whereas we are supposed to be the ones successful which is supposed to indicate to other how good islam is. This is why it is important that we help each other think logically and follow evidence. If we do not go the way of proof and proving and just believe anything then who are you to say I am wrong or who am I to say you are wrong? It is because our beliefs and actions cause concern for each others that we must confront each other and that confrontation is better through learning and teaching rather than through guns. If we are only going to decide our differences through fights like animals then what is humanity about? This is why the quran tells us to spread islam through best possible ways not worst possible ways. We are supposed to help turn each other in to good human beings not animals.

I hope this explains things as I understand them. Regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Aur phir aik exception bhi bata di gayi.

basically present day Muslims are no different to those ancient Jews/Christieans who used to alter and hide places of words to complicate the things and to justify their wrong beliefs.

So carry on. I don't care

Exception Convent breach karny par nahi hy\



And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them

Is par hy

Convent jis ny breach kia un ko Allah ny kaha

So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[HI]For those who want to know detailed knowledge about Fina-e-Parvazi
[/HI]

http://www.archive.org/stream/Ghula...haykhSyedKhaleeqSajidBukhari#page/n0/mode/1up

Dear muslimpower Mullahs disagree with parwez is not the issue but to prove his stand is wrong is the issue.

To do so first and foremost mullahs need to prove their stance is 100% correct because only that gives them right to claim others are so wrong that they need proper condemnation. If mullahs have no leg to stand upon then what right they have to claim they are the only ones' right?

When we critically study mullah given concepts about islam some of them fall apart. This only proves mullahs are wrong. If we study concepts as explained by parwez they make sense so no matter how much noise mullahs make it does not solve their real problem which is mullahs must prove they are talking sense.

We need to wake up to issue of mullahs even if parwez is 100% wrong. That only makes both of them wrong so where are real concepts of islam? This is why we need to use our brains and take whatever is right as true and leave the rest because it is all human effort in trying to interpret the word of God. Some of us will succeed in some points and others in other points but we are better working together than causing problems because this way we reinforce each other in whatever is proper. This is why ilmo aqal par mabni ikhtilaaf rehmat hai is ko zehmay main tabdeel karna achhi baat nahin hai kyun keh ye hamare liye nuqsaan deh hai.

regards and all the best.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

The Corrupt Kitab-ul-Taqdir of Pervez

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?7lea2yc51hqhkwh

jis baat ka rona har post main aap aaj ro rehe ho woh mullahs ki manghadat definition of taqdeer hai. It is very nicely explained by parwez sb in his quranic lectures.

http://archive.org/details/DarseQuranSuraAlMaaidah04Ayah87To90ByGhulamAhmedParwez

http://archive.org/details/DarseQuranSuraAlMaaidah04Ayah103To105ByGhulamAhmedParwez

43 surah az Zukhruf Ayah 19 To 25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2UwgZHHJC4&feature==related

43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 26 To 32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Ka0TzOU8E&feature=related

43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 33 To 56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KVpfHxtlro&feature=related

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother, revelation means different things in different contexts. For example, when we talk about revelation from God to a messenger it means different thing than when we talk about revelation of divine message by the messenger to the people of his time and then the revelation of the divine message from one people to the other.

We do not have any detailed reliable record from the prophet explaining how or when or why the quran was revealed. If we read reports about revelation of the quran in the hadith books they have problems. Other than Allah and his messenger none can explain the nature or mechanism of revelation. All we are told is that Allah revealed the quran to the messenger. It is because revelation from Allah is a unique thing in its nature therefore we can only speculate about it as far as our knowledge goes. Asking the question how exactly God revealed his message to his messengers is like asking how exactly did God create the universe. Just as we cannot understand one, we cannot understand the other. All we know is that universe is there and so is revelation and that both complement each other in a unique way and just as universe was not created by any human nor was any divine revelation. This is why the challenge that if you think the universe was not created by God or the revelation was not sent by God then go ahead and produce them and to do so join all of you together.

Therefore it is not right to claim that Allah revealed the quran to the prophet over 23 years. What makes sense is that even though Allah may have revealed the quran to the prophet at once as a complete program to carry out yet the prophet and the people needed time to implement this program by following a course of action to accomplish the set out goal. It is like some one you are working for tells you to do something for him eg set up a company for doing something and gives you an overall picture or a complete program or complete stages of the program and then you after getting the program make sense of it and carry it out as per your own circumstances and situations. After all islam is a revolutionary ideology for accomplishing peace in the world. This revolution was initiated by the prophet but still has to become accomplished worldwide. The prophet only completed it as much as he could and rest was left to his followers. So mission is not complete yet. From reports we can only say that once the prophet began at age of 40 he continued till he passed away. So his missionary life was 23 years.

If we try to read too much into stories about revelations and things then that gives rise to far too much criticism of reports and their authenticity. It would just prove a waste of time exercise. If you still want to look in to that criticism then read shia books that are critical of sunni hadith books and read sunni books that are critical of shia hadith books and based upon them criticism of islam as a whole by nonmuslims. This is why keeping things simple is better than try to create as many controversies as possible by attaching too many unreliable sources to islam as fundamental part of islam.

Coming to shaane nazool, if you read various tafaseer books then you will see a lot of conflicting reports in them as regard when a surah or any verse or verses were revealed. This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that these reports are not reliable to be relied upon as foundation of islam.

As I said before we need to leave conflicting ways of thinking about islam or things do not look good. The reason is islam is not for us muslims to make whatever we like of it and hold on to it but we have serious responsibility of delivering the message worldwide but at the same time sensibly therefore we are forced by the quran to be sensible and prove that to others. If we remain ignorant and prove to others the same are they going to be convinced that we have the message of God for them? Not only that by being senseless we will not even stop fighting among ourselves, so where is sense in any of this? It is very clear that we are in a lose lose situation whereas we are supposed to be the ones successful which is supposed to indicate to other how good islam is. This is why it is important that we help each other think logically and follow evidence. If we do not go the way of proof and proving and just believe anything then who are you to say I am wrong or who am I to say you are wrong? It is because our beliefs and actions cause concern for each others that we must confront each other and that confrontation is better through learning and teaching rather than through guns. If we are only going to decide our differences through fights like animals then what is humanity about? This is why the quran tells us to spread islam through best possible ways not worst possible ways. We are supposed to help turn each other in to good human beings not animals.

I hope this explains things as I understand them. Regards and all the best.

All of your Long post and theory you present is answered By this Ayath

Sura 2

(219. They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit.'' And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is (spare) beyond your needs.'' Thus Allah makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought.)


do i need to explain it any more



any way i am waiting for the Translation of the verse i send (Translation not interprations)

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Exception Convent breach karny par nahi hy\



And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of them

Is par hy

Convent jis ny breach kia un ko Allah ny kaha

So, because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them and made their hearts grow hard

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]پھر ان کی عہد شکنی کے باعث ہم نے اُن پر لعنت کی اوراُن کے دلوں کوسخت کر دیا وہ لوگ کلام کو ا سکے ٹھکانے سے بدلتے ہیں اور اس نصیحت سے نفع اٹھانا بھول گئے جو انہیں کی گئی تھی اور [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]تو ہمشیہ ان کی کسی نہ کسی خیانت پر اطلاع پاتا رہے گا[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]مگر تھوڑے ان میں سے سو انہیں معاف کر اور درگزر کر[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] بے شک الله نیکی کرنے والوں کو پسند کرتا ہے (۱۳)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Read this translation very carefully. Few ppl wo log hain jinhon ne promise zaroor break kiya ... [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]lakin Khayanat nahi ki

on logon ke promise break karne k amal ko he muaf kiya jaana hai ... because at least onhon ne khayanat nahi ki.

Agar onhon ne promise break nahi kiya tha phir on ko muafi dene ki kya zaroorat hai...???

Agar onhon ne promise poora kiya phir they are Muslims and there is no need to forgive them.

And they are not under curse despite they broke promise. Because under curse wo hain jinhon ne promise bhi poora nahi kiya aur ooper se khayanat bhi ki.

lakin there are few ppl among those who broke promise ... those few ppl however did not commit dishonesty and did not misplace words of Kalam. So Allah makes safarish before Rasool ... k on few ppl ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar guzar kijiye.

Agar wo under curse thay bhi (for the sake of just arguments) ... then the fact that Prophet (PBUH) forgives them and overlooked .... due to this fact the curse is vanished. [/FONT]

​

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]پھر ان کی عہد شکنی کے باعث ہم نے اُن پر لعنت کی اوراُن کے دلوں کوسخت کر دیا وہ لوگ کلام کو ا سکے ٹھکانے سے بدلتے ہیں اور اس نصیحت سے نفع اٹھانا بھول گئے جو انہیں کی گئی تھی اور [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]تو ہمشیہ ان کی کسی نہ کسی خیانت پر اطلاع پاتا رہے گا[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]مگر تھوڑے ان میں سے سو انہیں معاف کر اور درگزر کر[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont] بے شک الله نیکی کرنے والوں کو پسند کرتا ہے (۱۳)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Read this translation very carefully. Few ppl wo log hain jinhon ne promise zaroor break kiya ... [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]lakin Khayanat nahi ki

on logon ke promise break karne k amal ko he muaf kiya jaana hai ... because at least onhon ne khayanat nahi ki.

Agar onhon ne promise break nahi kiya tha phir on ko muafi dene ki kya zaroorat hai...???

Agar onhon ne promise poora kiya phir they are Muslims and there is no need to forgive them.

And they are not under curse despite they broke promise. Because under curse wo hain jinhon ne promise bhi poora nahi kiya aur ooper se khayanat bhi ki.

lakin there are few ppl among those who broke promise ... those few ppl however did not commit dishonesty and did not misplace words of Kalam. So Allah makes safarish before Rasool ... k on few ppl ko muaf kar dijiye ... on se dar guzar kijiye.

Agar wo under curse thay bhi (for the sake of just arguments) ... then the fact that Prophet (PBUH) forgives them and overlooked .... due to this fact the curse is vanished. [/FONT]

​

Keep changing interprations.

Any way.


Is Ayat main Hazoor SW ko Darguzar karny ka hukam Chand Logoon k liye nahi hy Balkay UN SAB k LIYE hay. Darguzar k humkam [FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]مگر تھوڑے ان میں[/FONT]

k liye nahi balkhy [FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]انہیں[/FONT] k liye hay aur yaahaan [FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]انہیں [/FONT]par sy murad Wo sub hain yahi main ap ko samjha raha hoon k khayanat karny waloon sy darguzar k hukam hy.

Ap ko ya baat is tarahhan sy samjh a sakti agar ap is baat ka jawaab socho honest ho kar.

k agar Sir [FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]مگر تھوڑے ان میں[/FONT] sy Darguzar k hukam hy tu phir baki logoon sy Hazoor SW Darguzar na karain?? unk sath Hazoor SW kaya salook karain??

It is clear in THIS ayat k Allah ny kaha k wada torny walaoon par curse hy Allah ka. exception wada torny par nahi hy