Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

No Comments. Take care

You may say this in this world but what will you do in front Allah

any way think

Kaya 2:62 waly wo hain jinhoon ny Quran k inkar nai kia??

Kaya ya answer hy Apka? kaya is answer main mojood itna bara jhool ap ko nazar nai ata k wo Hazoor SW ko na man kar Quran ka inkar karchukay balkay Injeel aur Tawarh ko bhi neglect kar chukay

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

No Comments. Take care

No matter you like it or not

any way think

Kaya 2:62 waly wo hain jinhoon ny Quran k inkar nai kia??

Kaya ya answer hy Apka? kaya is answer main mojood itna bara jhool ap ko nazar nai ata k wo Hazoor SW ko na man kar Quran ka inkar karchukay balkay Injeel aur Tawarh ko bhi neglect kar chukay

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

as far as your saying that you are not violating any thing

please read about these concepts of translations
Fidelity
transparency


AND AND
concept of BACK TRANSLATION and why it is used


any way you do not know why brakets are used in any language and you term it as (correcting the mistakes of Allah)??? then what can one say about your whole believes about translation etc..
most of the time it is used to remove language barriers and if you do not know that then it looks bad that you are talking about translation.

By the way you are against adding brackets and you your self CHANGE THE COMPLETE TEXT of Quran in your translation of Sura Taha

فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى
Which word is translated as communities you are yet to answer this. and in the light of your answer judge your words about () and think who is saying that(Allah should have put this and this and that)


By the way
in past Muslim research on the basis of Quran and done great job
but now people like GAP change Quran according to the research and look what we have these days

Dear brother Abdullah, please think about which way you are going. You are not making sense at all. Please put my explanations and yours side by side and see which ones make better sense. The sole primary objective of translation of any text is conveying its message and not in how many words. Pick up any dictionary worth the name that explains a word in detail and see how many words are used just to explain only one word for its meanings. A word or sentence not only has apparent meanings but also implied meanings as well as intended meanings and infered meanings etc etc. So no matter how you try to justify insertions or omissions you have to accept that insertions and omission become necessary as per understanding of the translator because you cannot translate anything without making some sense of something be it wrong or right. You have been distinguishing between translation and interpretation on wrong basis because translation is basically interpretation and the only difference is that one is oral the while other is written. You think translation is about converting words and interpretation is about explaining words but that is not the case. Both are fundamentally about conveying the sense of the message as faithfully as possible.

Tafseer is basically translation but it can also be your commnetary on the text you are analysing which includes other related information eg historical origin of the text or its back ground and development over time etc etc. In your understanding interpretation and tafseer is the very same thing but that is incorrect. As I said please do not try to argue with me otherwise I am not interested. I want you to use your head and try to explain things your way sensibly so that you could realise difficulties in trying to explain things. I can criticise you better than you can criticise me but I do not like to be padantic. This is not what this thread is about. So far you are showing signs of how influenced you are by mullah mindset that you hardly have any original thoughts on the matter.

As far researches of past scholars I do not discredit them nor can I or even you or anyone else for that matter because works carry their own merits within themselves. People pass away but their works pull their own weight so long as they survive. To me even if a nonmuslim talks sense he is right and if a claimant of islam talks nonsense he is wrong. It is because we have lost sense of loyalty to the truth that we have become personality cults divided in to so many sects. That is why we are not producing any worthwhile works that could influence thinking minds even among ourselves instead we are attracting much heavier criticisms and then we turn round and blame the other party and call it names to cool down our anger through senseless firing of words on others. This thread is evidence of that if you read some of the responses to it. People are clearly showing the sense they have about things.

As I said before please kindly provide your own stuff where you disagree with me and thereby prove that you are right. Any research you have on the quran that proves it divine constitution that sets out an objective for mankind ie purpose of life for them is welcome. If the tafaseer you rely upon ignore this then that is a major lack in them. Without knowing this very basic point they have no context of the quran therefore no framework to interpret the quran correctly. Islam is the set out purpose or goal for humanity to achieve but that is not what tafaseer discuss. They are more based upon ritualism as their central theme. This does not fulfil any need of Allah nor works for human benefit. They are more about securing ruling elite, mullaism and sarmayadari nizaam. They are mostly therefore diverting the message of islam instead of supporting it. This is main reason we should not take seriously mullahs and their baseless researches and explorations for support of islam because in the main these works themselves show they are anti islam.

Have you seen mullahs defining ribaa in context of the quran? Have you seen them explaining what is constitution and what is its role for a human society? What exactly is rule of law and why each and every person must understand it for oneself realising rights and responsibilities concerning oneself and society at large? All important points that support the correct quranic interpretation are removed through alternatives. This is mullahs magic the quran talks about in story of MOOSA v PHARAOH and his magicians.

You cannot even explain story of moosa and magicians from the tafaseers you are basing yourself upon. Due to mullahs influence on your mindset you are not prepared to give up the ghost and you are looking for ways to justify your make beliefs which you cannot in light of the quran using your own sense. I am inviting you to use of your own head though I realise it takes time. So rather than responding to my posts just for sake of it please give yourself time to realise the problems I am pointing out. If you do not realise these problems then you cannot understand my solutions nor offer better ones yourself. That is the problem.

I hope you give yourself time to think. regards and all the best.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Dear brother Abdullah, please think about which way you are going. You are not making sense at all. Please put my explanations and yours side by side and see which ones make better sense. The sole primary objective of translation of any text is conveying its message and not in how many words. Pick up any dictionary worth the name that explains a word in detail and see how many words are used just to explain only one word for its meanings. A word or sentence not only has apparent meanings but also implied meanings as well as intended meanings and infered meanings etc etc. So no matter how you try to justify insertions or omissions you have to accept that insertions and omission become necessary as per understanding of the translator because you cannot translate anything without making some sense of something be it wrong or right. You have been distinguishing between translation and interpretation on wrong basis because translation is basically interpretation and the only difference is that one is oral the while other is written. You think translation is about converting words and interpretation is about explaining words but that is not the case. Both are fundamentally about conveying the sense of the message as faithfully as possible.

Tafseer is basically translation but it can also be your commnetary on the text you are analysing which includes other related information eg historical origin of the text or its back ground and development over time etc etc. In your understanding interpretation and tafseer is the very same thing but that is incorrect. As I said please do not try to argue with me otherwise I am not interested. I want you to use your head and try to explain things your way sensibly so that you could realise difficulties in trying to explain things. I can criticise you better than you can criticise me but I do not like to be padantic. This is not what this thread is about. So far you are showing signs of how influenced you are by mullah mindset that you hardly have any original thoughts on the matter.

As far researches of past scholars I do not discredit them nor can I or even you or anyone else for that matter because works carry their own merits within themselves. People pass away but their works pull their own weight so long as they survive. To me even if a nonmuslim talks sense he is right and if a claimant of islam talks nonsense he is wrong. It is because we have lost sense of loyalty to the truth that we have become personality cults divided in to so many sects. That is why we are not producing any worthwhile works that could influence thinking minds even among ourselves instead we are attracting much heavier criticisms and then we turn round and blame the other party and call it names to cool down our anger through senseless firing of words on others. This thread is evidence of that if you read some of the responses to it. People are clearly showing the sense they have about things.

As I said before please kindly provide your own stuff where you disagree with me and thereby prove that you are right. Any research you have on the quran that proves it divine constitution that sets out an objective for mankind ie purpose of life for them is welcome. If the tafaseer you rely upon ignore this then that is a major lack in them. Without knowing this very basic point they have no context of the quran therefore no framework to interpret the quran correctly. Islam is the set out purpose or goal for humanity to achieve but that is not what tafaseer discuss. They are more based upon ritualism as their central theme. This does not fulfil any need of Allah nor works for human benefit. They are more about securing ruling elite, mullaism and sarmayadari nizaam. They are mostly therefore diverting the message of islam instead of supporting it. This is main reason we should not take seriously mullahs and their baseless researches and explorations for support of islam because in the main these works themselves show they are anti islam.

Have you seen mullahs defining ribaa in context of the quran? Have you seen them explaining what is constitution and what is its role for a human society? What exactly is rule of law and why each and every person must understand it for oneself realising rights and responsibilities concerning oneself and society at large? All important points that support the correct quranic interpretation are removed through alternatives. This is mullahs magic the quran talks about in story of MOOSA v PHARAOH and his magicians.

You cannot even explain story of moosa and magicians from the tafaseers you are basing yourself upon. Due to mullahs influence on your mindset you are not prepared to give up the ghost and you are looking for ways to justify your make beliefs which you cannot in light of the quran using your own sense. I am inviting you to use of your own head though I realise it takes time. So rather than responding to my posts just for sake of it please give yourself time to realise the problems I am pointing out. If you do not realise these problems then you cannot understand my solutions nor offer better ones yourself. That is the problem.

I hope you give yourself time to think. regards and all the best.

Come out of your Mullah Phobia.

I am not under influnce on any Mullah.

Y you did not answer the question but post lenghty post without any thing related to what i seek??


فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى
Which word is translated as communities you are yet to answer this.
That is my question.

I am not talking about Ghosts or story of Musa etc.. I am talking about your way of thinking about Quran.

that

on what basis you translat
فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى
it and add Communites stuff in it.


Isnt it a simple thing dear to answer?


Note: I understand what you are trying to say over and over again but you are fail to unerstand what i am asking

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

No Comments. Take care

THINK THINK THINK


Kaya 2:62 waly wo hain jinhoon ny Quran k inkar nai kia??

Kaya ya answer hy Apka? kaya is answer main mojood itna bara jhool ap ko nazar nai ata k wo Hazoor SW ko na man kar Quran ka inkar karchukay balkay Injeel aur Tawarh ko bhi neglect kar chukay

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

THINK THINK THINK


Kaya 2:62 waly wo hain jinhoon ny Quran k inkar nai kia??

Kaya ya answer hy Apka? kaya is answer main mojood itna bara jhool ap ko nazar nai ata k wo Hazoor SW ko na man kar Quran ka inkar karchukay balkay Injeel aur Tawarh ko bhi neglect kar chukay

Tum ko khud koi apni baat main jhool nazar nahi aata...???

2:62 ko as it is tum accept karte he nahi. You know more than Quran. Lehaza Jo alfaaz Quran bhool gaya tha (Nauzo-Bi-Allah) tum wo alfaz Quran main add karte ho.

Meri tu barri simple position hai. Khuda kehta hai saare Jews Hell main jaen gy. I accept. Quran kehta hai 2:62 k criteria ko meet karne waale Jews Hell main nahi jaein gy. I accept. I don't question any logical anomaly. But you trust more on your own logics.

Islam prophet (PBUH) pe eman ka naam nahi hai. Islam Khuda ki obediance ka naam hai. Khuda Prophet (PBUH) pe emaan laane walon ko he nawazta hai. lakin Khuda logon ki positive khoobiyon ka ajar Prophet pe eman ki condition k baghair bhi deta hai. (2:262)

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جو لوگ اپنا مال الله کی راہ میں خرچ کرتے ہیں پھر خرچ کرنے کے بعد نہ تو (اس پر) احسان جتلاتے ہیں اور نہ (برتاوٴ سے) اس کو آزار پہنچاتے ہیں اُن لوگوں کو ان (کے اعمال) کا ثواب ملے گا ان کے پروردگا ر کے پاس اور نہ ان پر کوئی خطر ہوگااور نہ یہ مغموم ہونگے۔ (۲۶۲)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Jo deen Islam Khuda ko Maqbool hai wo asal main Deen-e-Ibrahim hai aur Muslims ka deen bhi apni asal main deen-e-Ibrahim he hai. (2:131,132)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
.
[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Note: Yahan 'Jab on se' se murad Hazrat Ibrahim hain.[/FONT]​

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Kaya 2:62 waly wo hain jinhoon ny Quran k inkar nai kia??

Kaya ya answer hy Apka? kaya is answer main mojood itna bara jhool ap ko nazar nai ata k wo Hazoor SW ko na man kar Quran ka inkar karchukay balkay Injeel aur Tawarh ko bhi neglect kar chukay

Koi jhool nahi hai iss position main. Jo christians/Jews Quran pe eman laate hain aur Quran ko Khuda ka kalam samajhte hain wo 2:62 ko bhi read karte hain aur 5:69 ko bhi samajhte hain. Quran on ki apni books ko confirm kar raha hota hai lehaza they officially follow their own books. They also understand 5:48 jis k mutabiq as long as they are not official Muslims, on ka aakhrat ka hissab on ki apni books se he ho ga.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Come out of your Mullah Phobia.

I am not under influnce on any Mullah.

Y you did not answer the question but post lenghty post without any thing related to what i seek??


فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى
Which word is translated as communities you are yet to answer this.
That is my question.

I am not talking about Ghosts or story of Musa etc.. I am talking about your way of thinking about Quran.

that

on what basis you translat
فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى
it and add Communites stuff in it.


Isnt it a simple thing dear to answer?


Note: I understand what you are trying to say over and over again but you are fail to unerstand what i am asking

mere pyare bhai aap meri baat ko nahin samjhe, let me try again. You need to realise that only quran is quran and whatever anyone says about the quran is not quran instead it is that person's own understanding of the quran. The words one uses to tell us things about the quran are that person's own words and their meanings are according to the person who chose those words with the intention that person has about those words in his mind. He want to convey the message of the quran in his own words according to sense of the message which he gets from the message.

You need to realise that only if Allah himself revealed quran in urdu or english or whatever language then that would be the quran. No translation is quran nor even true representation of the meanings of the quran nor even true understanding of the quran as intended by Allah because Allah did not reveal that understanding to the translator so all a person can do is try his best to understand the message and render it as one sees best in trying to convey the message.

Now in doing so not everyone will do the same thing some people will use my idea and some your idea and the argument here is that my idea seems to be better because it is more likely to do the job better. In other word you are trying to explain things by using less number of words and my objection to that is a) your basic idea is wrong that you think you are actually conveying message of the quran as it is, in other words you are trying to prove translation is quran which it is not. And b) the use of less number of words leaves things in confusion because from that kind of translation the reader cannot get any sense at all either as quranic message or your explanation of it, so what has such like idea of translation achieved so far? It is for this reason I am saying let us do this differently because that will makes thing clear at least from pointm of view of the translator.

My point is, no matter what we cannot avoid use of words which you take for extra in brackets and I take them as part of the message. The advantage of looking at things my way is that then one cannot raise objection against the quran that actual text of the quran is broken and it needs repairing through use of extra words by people.

I am very much sure that the quran is talking about the community otherwise why do we need tableegh or dawa and constitution and community laws etc etc? I know it is a bit difficult concept to understand but we do need to understand it. The sooner the better. All new ideas were opposed by muslims even the so called translations of the quran in other languages and even letting nonmuslim touch the quran was a big issue once upon a time. Nonetheless we should keep moving in the right direction. The simple idea to remember is that anything that helps understand islam better is good and as it improves understanding about islam it also removes objections against islam. This will in time help more and more people come and join us in our struggle for peace in the word in the hope of reward in here after as well.

If you still do not understand my idea please give yourself time. We all learn things in our own time ie at our own pace so no problem. In time of prophet, people came to islam because they were convinced about its set out aims and objectives for humanity and that is the main reason people put their time and effort into its message in sense of copying it, memorising it, understanding it and spreading it etc etc. It is a message worth the time and effort.

Although we argue with each other passionately because we each are concerned about various aspects of it but main thing to realise and remember is that we do it in good faith. You oppose my translation of the quran because you think I am changing the quran it is because you fail to realise that I am not claiming my translation is quran. It is what I make of the quran as per my understanding of its text. If I were really changing the quran then your concern would be justified but then you are taking your kind of translation very seriously and my concern is that that translation misrepresents the message of the quran and leads to confusion on one hand and a lot more objections on the other. If your translation did not raise lot more objections then my concern would not be valid either.

All I can say is may Allah bless all of us with better understanding of his message so that we could unite on basis of what is right and proper.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Koi jhool nahi hai iss position main. Jo christians/Jews Quran pe eman laate hain aur Quran ko Khuda ka kalam samajhte hain wo 2:62 ko bhi read karte hain aur 5:69 ko bhi samajhte hain. Quran on ki apni books ko confirm kar raha hota hai lehaza they officially follow their own books. They also understand 5:48 jis k mutabiq as long as they are not official Muslims, on ka aakhrat ka hissab on ki apni books se he ho ga.

Quran pe eman laate hain aur Quran ko Khuda ka kalam samajhte hain??? REALLY??

Quran par emaan laity hain tu Kaya Quran main HAzoor SW par emaan lainy ka hukam nahi hy?? Ineel aur Tawarah main bhi tha

Wo Hazoor SW ko na maan kar Quran /injeel Tawarah sub ko jhutla rahain hain and you are saying k Quran par emaan laity hain..

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

mere pyare bhai aap meri baat ko nahin samjhe, let me try again. You need to realise that only quran is quran and whatever anyone says about the quran is not quran instead it is that person's own understanding of the quran. The words one uses to tell us things about the quran are that person's own words and their meanings are according to the person who chose those words with the intention that person has about those words in his mind. He want to convey the message of the quran in his own words according to sense of the message which he gets from the message.

You need to realise that only if Allah himself revealed quran in urdu or english or whatever language then that would be the quran. No translation is quran nor even true representation of the meanings of the quran nor even true understanding of the quran as intended by Allah because Allah did not reveal that understanding to the translator so all a person can do is try his best to understand the message and render it as one sees best in trying to convey the message.

Now in doing so not everyone will do the same thing some people will use my idea and some your idea and the argument here is that my idea seems to be better because it is more likely to do the job better. In other word you are trying to explain things by using less number of words and my objection to that is a) your basic idea is wrong that you think you are actually conveying message of the quran as it is, in other words you are trying to prove translation is quran which it is not. And b) the use of less number of words leaves things in confusion because from that kind of translation the reader cannot get any sense at all either as quranic message or your explanation of it, so what has such like idea of translation achieved so far? It is for this reason I am saying let us do this differently because that will makes thing clear at least from pointm of view of the translator.

My point is, no matter what we cannot avoid use of words which you take for extra in brackets and I take them as part of the message. The advantage of looking at things my way is that then one cannot raise objection against the quran that actual text of the quran is broken and it needs repairing through use of extra words by people.

I am very much sure that the quran is talking about the community otherwise why do we need tableegh or dawa and constitution and community laws etc etc? I know it is a bit difficult concept to understand but we do need to understand it. The sooner the better. All new ideas were opposed by muslims even the so called translations of the quran in other languages and even letting nonmuslim touch the quran was a big issue once upon a time. Nonetheless we should keep moving in the right direction. The simple idea to remember is that anything that helps understand islam better is good and as it improves understanding about islam it also removes objections against islam. This will in time help more and more people come and join us in our struggle for peace in the word in the hope of reward in here after as well.

If you still do not understand my idea please give yourself time. We all learn things in our own time ie at our own pace so no problem. In time of prophet, people came to islam because they were convinced about its set out aims and objectives for humanity and that is the main reason people put their time and effort into its message in sense of copying it, memorising it, understanding it and spreading it etc etc. It is a message worth the time and effort.

Although we argue with each other passionately because we each are concerned about various aspects of it but main thing to realise and remember is that we do it in good faith. You oppose my translation of the quran because you think I am changing the quran it is because you fail to realise that I am not claiming my translation is quran. It is what I make of the quran as per my understanding of its text. If I were really changing the quran then your concern would be justified but then you are taking your kind of translation very seriously and my concern is that that translation misrepresents the message of the quran and leads to confusion on one hand and a lot more objections on the other. If your translation did not raise lot more objections then my concern would not be valid either.

All I can say is may Allah bless all of us with better understanding of his message so that we could unite on basis of what is right and proper.

please read about these concepts of translations
Fidelity
transparency


AND AND
concept of BACK TRANSLATION and why it is used


next time please respond when you have read about it.

you are yet to answer that wich word of the Ayath is translated as Communities

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Quran pe eman laate hain aur Quran ko Khuda ka kalam samajhte hain??? REALLY??

Quran par emaan laity hain tu Kaya Quran main HAzoor SW par emaan lainy ka hukam nahi hy?? Ineel aur Tawarah main bhi tha

Wo Hazoor SW ko na maan kar Quran /injeel Tawarah sub ko jhutla rahain hain and you are saying k Quran par emaan laity hain..

This is what you say. Because you don't want to believe 5:69/2:62/7:159/5:48

These verses are also definate part of Quran. And there are clear instructions for them. They don't need your special instructions...!!!

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Tum ko khud koi apni baat main jhool nazar nahi aata...???

2:62 ko as it is tum accept karte he nahi. You know more than Quran. Lehaza Jo alfaaz Quran bhool gaya tha (Nauzo-Bi-Allah) tum wo alfaz Quran main add karte ho.

Meri tu barri simple position hai. Khuda kehta hai saare Jews Hell main jaen gy. I accept. Quran kehta hai 2:62 k criteria ko meet karne waale Jews Hell main nahi jaein gy. I accept. I don't question any logical anomaly. But you trust more on your own logics.

Islam prophet (PBUH) pe eman ka naam nahi hai. Islam Khuda ki obediance ka naam hai. Khuda Prophet (PBUH) pe emaan laane walon ko he nawazta hai. lakin Khuda logon ki positive khoobiyon ka ajar Prophet pe eman ki condition k baghair bhi deta hai. (2:262)

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جو لوگ اپنا مال الله کی راہ میں خرچ کرتے ہیں پھر خرچ کرنے کے بعد نہ تو (اس پر) احسان جتلاتے ہیں اور نہ (برتاوٴ سے) اس کو آزار پہنچاتے ہیں اُن لوگوں کو ان (کے اعمال) کا ثواب ملے گا ان کے پروردگا ر کے پاس اور نہ ان پر کوئی خطر ہوگااور نہ یہ مغموم ہونگے۔ (۲۶۲)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Jo deen Islam Khuda ko Maqbool hai wo asal main Deen-e-Ibrahim hai aur Muslims ka deen bhi apni asal main deen-e-Ibrahim he hai. (2:131,132)

[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
.
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[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]Note: Yahan 'Jab on se' se murad Hazrat Ibrahim hain.[/FONT]​

You said
Islam prophet (PBUH) pe eman ka naam nahi hai.

ok agar Koi Muslaman hazoor SW par emaan na laye tu bhi wo Muslaman he hoa??


And is Ayat ko Ap ki logic pay parkhain tu phir Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko Man na zaroori nahi. kyn k is Ayat main tu unk liye asi koi sharat nahi hy.


(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

and is Aayt main bhi

(69. Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

Tu is ka matlab hoa 2:62 and 5:69 k mutabik Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko man na lazim nahi na man kar bhi gham sy nijat yafta hoon gy???? THINK then answer.

and by they way have you forget 5:68

(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .'' Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve.)

Quran is saying they have nothing if they do not act on Injeel Tawarah and WHAT have send down . Injeel and Tawarah and WHAT have send down sub Hazoor SW par emaan laina ka kahty hain wo Hazoor SW par emaan na la kar Injeel tawaraw and What have sent down par ACT nahi kar rahy so they have nothing as per this Ayath.


By the way
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
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[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
Is Ayat k baad kis bartay par kahty ho k wo JEW Christain rahna chahin tu Rah sakty hain.
Un sy Allah ny wada lia wo Tora unk Baap DADA ny hukam dia wo nahi mana magar phir bhi Gham sy nijat yafta ???? Kuch socho


and think ka 2:62 ki roo sy tu Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW par eman lazim nahi hy kaya asa he hy in your point of view??




[/FONT]

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

This is what you say. Because you don't want to believe 5:69/2:62/7:159/5:48

These verses are also definitate part of Quran. And there are clear instructions for them. They don't need your special instructions...!!!

My special instructions???

Quran/injeel/Tawarah sub kah rahy and you name it my instrcutions ?? OPEN you eyes please.



2:62 par ap ki logic k mutabik tu Muslims bhi Hazoor SW par emaan na lain tu Koi maslan nahi hain na??

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

My special instructions???

Quran/injeel/Tawarah sub kah rahy and you name it my instrcutions ?? OPEN you eyes please.

No comments .... because you know you are wrong and you know you don't believe in 5:69/2:62/7:159/5:148

2:62 par ap ki logic k mutabik tu Muslims bhi Hazoor SW par emaan na lain tu Koi maslan nahi hain na??

You are not good in logic. Agar koi "Muslim" hai wo Prophet (PBUH) ka already follower hai.

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

You said
Islam prophet (PBUH) pe eman ka naam nahi hai.

ok agar Koi Muslaman hazoor SW par emaan na laye tu bhi wo Muslaman he hoa??


And is Ayat ko Ap ki logic pay parkhain tu phir Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko Man na zaroori nahi. kyn k is Ayat main tu unk liye asi koi sharat nahi hy.


(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

and is Aayt main bhi

(69. Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)

Tu is ka matlab hoa 2:62 and 5:69 k mutabik Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW ko man na lazim nahi na man kar bhi gham sy nijat yafta hoon gy???? THINK then answer.

and by they way have you forget 5:68

(68. Say: "O People of the Scripture! You have nothing till you act according to the Tawrah, the Injil, and what has been sent down to you from your Lord .'' Verily, the revelation that has come to you from your Lord makes many of them increase in rebellion and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve.)

Quran is saying they have nothing if they do not act on Injeel Tawarah and WHAT have send down . Injeel and Tawarah and WHAT have send down sub Hazoor SW par emaan laina ka kahty hain wo Hazoor SW par emaan na la kar Injeel tawaraw and What have sent down par ACT nahi kar rahy so they have nothing as per this Ayath.


By the way
[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
[/FONT]

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]جب ان سے ان کے پروردگار نے فرمایا کہ اسلام لے آؤ تو انہوں نے عرض کی کہ میں رب العالمین کے آگے سر اطاعت خم کرتا ہوں (۱۳۱) [/FONT][FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]اور ابرہیم نے اپنے بیٹوں کو اسی بات کی وصیت کی اور یعقوب نے بھی (اپنے فرزندوں سے یہی کہا) کہ بیٹا خدا نے تمہارے لیے یہی دین پسند فرمایا ہے تو مرنا ہے تو مسلمان ہی مرنا (۱۳۲)
[/FONT]​

[FONT=PDMS_IslamicFont]
Is Ayat k baad kis bartay par kahty ho k wo JEW Christain rahna chahin tu Rah sakty hain.
Un sy Allah ny wada lia wo Tora unk Baap DADA ny hukam dia wo nahi mana magar phir bhi Gham sy nijat yafta ???? Kuch socho


and think ka 2:62 ki roo sy tu Muslims ko bhi Hazoor SW par eman lazim nahi hy kaya asa he hy in your point of view??




[/FONT]

I will read this long post in spare time.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I will read this long post in spare time.

Post is not long if you THINK and LOOK With care

it have few Ayat posted and few Line breaks so that you may look into it carefully

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

No comments .... because you know you are wrong and you know you don't believe in 5:69/2:62/7:159/5:148




You are not good in logic. Agar koi "Muslim" hai wo Prophet (PBUH) ka already follower hai.

I do belive in the light of Quran.

By the way

You are funny

Quran says First Muslim was Prophet Abrahim

any way

Is AYat main tu asa kuch nai likha hoa so

Now again answer
2:62 par ap ki logic k mutabik tu Muslims bhi Hazoor SW par emaan na lain tu Koi maslan nahi hain na?? If yes then why if no then why??

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

I do belive in the light of Quran.

By the way

You are funny

Quran says First Muslim was Prophet Abrahim

any way

Is AYat main tu asa kuch nai likha hoa so

Now again answer
2:62 par ap ki logic k mutabik tu Muslims bhi Hazoor SW par emaan na lain tu Koi maslan nahi hain na?? If yes then why if no then why??

Mujhe andaza tha k aisa silly question karo gy. Pehle bhi main ne kaha tha k "Muslims" ka deen apni asal main deen-e-Ibraheem hai.... Jis sense main main ne "Muslim" wahan kaha tha ... ab bhi osi sense main he hai aur 2:62 main bhi osi sense main he hai. Ye Muslim Qaum ka zikar hai ... "Islam" deen ka zikar nahi jo k Allahko 2:62 ki conditions k baghair bhi maqbool hai.....

It also means k khali "Muslim" hona kaafi nahi

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mujhe andaza tha k aisa silly question karo gy. Pehle bhi main ne kaha tha k "Muslims" ka deen apni asal main deen-e-Ibraheem hai.... Jis sense main main ne "Muslim" wahan kaha tha ... ab bhi osi sense main he hai aur 2:62 main bhi osi sense main he hai. Ye Muslim Qaum ka zikar hai ... "Islam" deen ka zikar nahi jo k Allahko 2:62 ki conditions k baghair bhi maqbool hai.....

It also means k khali "Muslim" hona kaafi nahi

Idhar udhar mat ghumain sarkar



2:62 main hy k

(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)


Now you just answer k

2:62 k mad-e-nazar rakhty hoay is ka matlab hoa ka Muslims (matlab ap/main etc.. ) par bhi Hazoor SW ko Man na lazim nahi ?
Agar nahi tu kis base par

Agar haan tu kis base par

 

[iceburg]

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Idhar udhar mat ghumain sarkar



2:62 main hy k

(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)


Now you just answer k

2:62 k mad-e-nazar rakhty hoay is ka matlab hoa ka Muslims (matlab ap/main etc.. ) par bhi Hazoor SW ko Man na lazim nahi ?
Agar nahi tu kis base par

Agar haan tu kis base par

Yahan believe se murad Prophet (PBUH) pe believe hai... yani k Muslim Qaum.

Believe se murad Allah pe believe nahi hai because Allah pe believe ki separate condition issi ayyet main hai.

So it is lamha-e-Fikriya for those present day Muslims .... jin k liye Nabi ki zaat Allah se bhi ziada zaroori hai....