adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
yups.. but the person made an incorrect statement that india doestn have such ppl ... it has got its chunk of intolerant religious goons as well..
Is It a Lie? or Truth
- Thread starter Unicorn
- Start date
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
no ones denying that. i am an indian muslim myself. but there is a world of difference between bal thackrey and indira gandhi. and india's secular polity has been damaged mainly starting in the late 1980's after indiras death. before that there were riots, but never political parties implicitly or explicity involved. bal thackey also rails more against pakistan than muslims. he is a career anti-secularist. he first fired a lot of vitriol against the tamil migrants in bombay. when that politics failed he shifted the target of his hate politics againsst muslims. so everyone know who he is. and shiv sena has never been back in power in maharashtra since 1998.
also the other difference is that even of their are riots, that does not change the national narrative. we think of riots as aberration to our national narrative, rather than the norm. unlike pakistan, where there is still huge lack of clarity as to what the whole purpose and nature of the state should be (islamic/secular/sunni/deobandi etc.) in india there is no mix up. we are clearly and intently focussed on the fact that we are a secular polity. no negotiations. if any party tomorrow says that we want a hindu state and stands for elections, they will not get the votes of the household members. all this may change, but its a constant battle against anti-secular forces. inshallah we will keep them at bay.
also the other difference is that even of their are riots, that does not change the national narrative. we think of riots as aberration to our national narrative, rather than the norm. unlike pakistan, where there is still huge lack of clarity as to what the whole purpose and nature of the state should be (islamic/secular/sunni/deobandi etc.) in india there is no mix up. we are clearly and intently focussed on the fact that we are a secular polity. no negotiations. if any party tomorrow says that we want a hindu state and stands for elections, they will not get the votes of the household members. all this may change, but its a constant battle against anti-secular forces. inshallah we will keep them at bay.
A.Ali.T
Minister (2k+ posts)
I vaguely remember hearing this statement myself, but before I can say for sure I have to be certain. I am checking this on youtube, these interviews were conducted shortly after 1971 war.
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
there is no definiteive thing in todays media... ull start conspiracy theories then.. like osama dead or alive sorta thingie.... u just have to look into the person who is reportiing and the context...
in context .. nasim zehra is one of the leading journalist and a very responsible one unlike some idiots who simply write rubbish... like orya maqbool etc had orya maqbool said this i wud hve my doubts....
also given the fact muslims did rule over hindu majority and 1971 was a war time .... and this was a big victory for india.... call it a slip or tongue or what ever.. may not be a national policy or narrative... but it seems totally cool to me that she might have said that....
in context .. nasim zehra is one of the leading journalist and a very responsible one unlike some idiots who simply write rubbish... like orya maqbool etc had orya maqbool said this i wud hve my doubts....
also given the fact muslims did rule over hindu majority and 1971 was a war time .... and this was a big victory for india.... call it a slip or tongue or what ever.. may not be a national policy or narrative... but it seems totally cool to me that she might have said that....
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
as a side question.. why doesnt indian courts book him?? he incites violence.. threatens international teams of dire consequence?? so who is supopriting him so hes away from being dragged to courts ???
Unicorn
Banned
I wouldn't doubt that every Tom Dick and Harry is making them. Check out the links that cefspan has posted. I find it amazing that no one ells is coming forward and saying " yes I have seen this documentary too ". I also checked you tube quite vigorously and no results.
Unicorn
Banned
Yes we definitely have them.
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
well i am sure it will be hard to prove cases of incitement. he will probably get away on some technicality. also typically what happens is that if the system tries to go after him, the BJP and right wing put political pressure on the congress which is in power. you have to understand that most systems are designed in such a way that its very hard to prosecute the rich and powerful.
also if you take the example of godhra riots, the secular forces have spent an enormous amount of energy to go after modi's administration. the law has caught up with modi's home minister Amit shah. but then since law and order is a state matter, the state government keeps getting in the way of the investigation and the prosecuaiton. ts very complicated. just as an example remeber the raymond davis case. how hard was it to prosecute him? but u could not right. he got away on some technicality. Why? if he was a common criminal in the roads who did what he did, he would be hanging by now. but the rich and the powerful in corrupt countries like india and pakistan always know how to tweak the system. but i can assure you as the days pass, these state sponsored riots are becoming a thing of the past. there is also a Communal violence bill in the making. finally we greatly need police reforms. several committees and studies have been done, but there is not yet any act which formalizes a police free of political pressures.
also if you take the example of godhra riots, the secular forces have spent an enormous amount of energy to go after modi's administration. the law has caught up with modi's home minister Amit shah. but then since law and order is a state matter, the state government keeps getting in the way of the investigation and the prosecuaiton. ts very complicated. just as an example remeber the raymond davis case. how hard was it to prosecute him? but u could not right. he got away on some technicality. Why? if he was a common criminal in the roads who did what he did, he would be hanging by now. but the rich and the powerful in corrupt countries like india and pakistan always know how to tweak the system. but i can assure you as the days pass, these state sponsored riots are becoming a thing of the past. there is also a Communal violence bill in the making. finally we greatly need police reforms. several committees and studies have been done, but there is not yet any act which formalizes a police free of political pressures.
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
well naseem zehra said that the documentary said that an aide of indira said that indira said "thousand years". even if the documentary is ever found, it is still unsubstantiated. it removes one layer of unsubstantiation. but who is to conform that the documentary got it right, (after all there is a difference between documentary and news). then who is to confirm that the aide said the right thing. what if she made it up. its a classical he said/she said scenario.
safely speaking unless it came as an official press release, or indira was videotaped/audiotaped saying this, or if atleast one more witness came up and said the same thing it is a rumour. how come Mrs. gandhi who lived for another 13 years after 1971, never repeated anything similar.
lastly dude however cool you are with the statement, as in indian muslim i think if she said that, its totally uncool. and its more important what i think than what you think, becuz it is my country. no offence intended.
safely speaking unless it came as an official press release, or indira was videotaped/audiotaped saying this, or if atleast one more witness came up and said the same thing it is a rumour. how come Mrs. gandhi who lived for another 13 years after 1971, never repeated anything similar.
lastly dude however cool you are with the statement, as in indian muslim i think if she said that, its totally uncool. and its more important what i think than what you think, becuz it is my country. no offence intended.
kya baat, kya baat........cha gaye aap to.......(clap)
hawaskapujari
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
there is a world of difference between saying pakistan should not exist and the much more malicious "thousand year" quote. some indians think pakistan should not exist since in their opinion pakistan is a state that sponsors terrorism in india.
but its never part of our national narrative that we avanged 1000 years of slavery in 1971. for e.g. our history books write glowingly about the mughal age especially at the time of akbar. we read extensively about his administration, the arts, mughal painting etc.etc. similarly the taj mahal is a sign of pride for indians, not a memorial of our slavery. in the 1700's when the marathas became all powerful (before 1761, 3rd battle of panipat), our history books doesnt call the maratha rise a war of independence against the muslims. but 1857 is called first war of independence against british. sher shahs suri is another king about whom there are glowing terms used.
we also read extensively about allauddin khiljis rule, his taxation system (he was the first king to bring about centralized tax and excise collection on agriculture). nowhere does it say that we were slaves.
but its never part of our national narrative that we avanged 1000 years of slavery in 1971. for e.g. our history books write glowingly about the mughal age especially at the time of akbar. we read extensively about his administration, the arts, mughal painting etc.etc. similarly the taj mahal is a sign of pride for indians, not a memorial of our slavery. in the 1700's when the marathas became all powerful (before 1761, 3rd battle of panipat), our history books doesnt call the maratha rise a war of independence against the muslims. but 1857 is called first war of independence against british. sher shahs suri is another king about whom there are glowing terms used.
we also read extensively about allauddin khiljis rule, his taxation system (he was the first king to bring about centralized tax and excise collection on agriculture). nowhere does it say that we were slaves.
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Butchered by Mukti Bahni!
By the same token would you like Pakistan's military involvement in Makbooza Kashmir to prevent the butcher being perpetrated by the indian occupying forces?
How about the butchery of the Sikhs in indian Punjab? Who should go to help them?
What about the butchery of the 2000 muslims in Gujarat, is it time to rescue them from further tyrany?
madam kabhi to galti se pate ki baat kar liya karen......
Unicorn
Banned
I think he definitively did, I don't think he was prepared for this statement because he probably never heard of it. No one in India is aware of it anyway.
I found one BBC documantry about her live. 1971 war starts at 32 minutes and goes on for 10 minutes with a few interviews with people close to her.
[video=google;-1510624062539044486]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1510624062539044486[/video]
TruPakistani
Minister (2k+ posts)
Indira gandhi's plans are pretty much clear in this BBC interview. She is claiming Yahya Khan to be Hitler...:lol:
Unicorn
Banned
When India refuses to grant them the right to form there governments following legally held elections and these people start arriving in Pakistan for refuge than the world has the responsibility to do something about it.
Unicorn
Banned
She went out to different countries to put pressure on Pakistan to remove their troops for East Pakistan. Had the world done it there was no need for the refugees to arrive in India and there be no invasion.
Unicorn
Banned
This thread is picked up by other web sites (bigsmile). We will get to the bottom of this.
http://pakistantvdekho.com/showthread.php?110946-Is-It-a-Lie-or-Truth-watch-online-written-update
http://pakistantvdekho.com/showthread.php?110946-Is-It-a-Lie-or-Truth-watch-online-written-update
bons
Minister (2k+ posts)
Actions speak louder than words. What is the significance of the statement after the Indian attack on East Pakistan?
Indian policy is BAGHAL MAIN CHHURI MONH MAIN RAM RAM.
Dont waste you time on this useless research. Do research on you creator and the purpose of your life.
Do you really understand english.......where did she claim yahya khan to be hitler?
