Prophet saw Musa praying in his grave

NailaFirdous

MPA (400+ posts)
Lol...it's almost as if you can see through his home cooked BS but don't wanna call it out because you yourself wanna believe in that BS. He was just trying to show off his Excel gradutation to you. You took it too far. Otherwise you know it he is full of it.
Please be careful about make judgements about other people, what do you know about me to make any conclusions? I am simply asking a question to another person and you are jumping in to judge me and others, this is a major sin in Islam. Be careful.
 

NailaFirdous

MPA (400+ posts)
Bukhari chose these narrations from a collection of 600,000 narrations he had collected over 16 years. The narrations are distributed across 97 chapters covering fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), among other subjects. Each chapter contains references to relevant verses from the Quran.

I know about Bukhari and other hadith books, I am an academic based in a university in the UK. I am interested in the reference of those figures that you gave. Purely for academic purposes. Thanks in advance.
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I know about Bukhari and other hadith books, I am an academic based in a university in the UK. I am interested in the reference of those figures that you gave. Purely for academic purposes. Thanks in advance.
You may google it to find the references. I just posted the Wikipedia link above.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
hadith from muslim itself wherein certain orders were given by my prophet SAW against writing of hadith, but you lack the context of it,
Oh context! Baby you don't who you are messing with. I've provably forgotten more about hadith than your entire clan put together remembers about hadith.

Your context is that later on some bhaand mullahs like Al Nawawi and Ibn Hajar came along and did some verbal gymnastics, jumped through a lot of mental hoops and made up BS about how, without any real proof mind you, just making wild guesses and assumptions, that oh he must have forbade it only for a certain time so that the Quran and hadith don't get mixed up.

And others like always when in doubt just made up more hadith. So more was made up hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth 😂 Just typing it out I couldn't help myself LOL and how ridiculous that sounds!

So yeah put back your context where it belongs 😉
So as a rejector of basic pillars of Islam
Ooooo the famous imaginary so called "pillars of Islam" the last resort of the sectarian mushrik. So such thing exist in the Quran, and FYI which pillars? Shia or Sunni? lol

Go read Islamic history and the background of your pillars, your own bhaand moulvis say there were no established so called "pillars of Islam" even during the Prophet's time. They have not always been the same and changed over time and taken centuries to become what you know today as the pillars of Islam. Go read a book called The Development Of Islamic Rituals and learn something for a change.

But of course you wont, because you mushirks have no where to go except following blindly, even your moulvis accept this

Your Prophet is Bhukari and your Quran the Hadith.

 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
I am not disagreeing with you, it's just that I had a figure of 124,000 forged ahadith for Bukhari but didn't have the figures for other and just wanted to know where you got them from.
There is actually tons of literature with this kind of information, new and old, which all the hadithist seem to agree upon.. So its really hard to pinpoint to a single source. Which is hard for an ancient work of fiction like so called Sahih Bhukari. They really have no real proof that Bhukari even actually wrote any of it, because no surviving manuscript of his survives. All of today's Bhukari can be traced back to one of his alleged students, and unknown individual, Abdullah Al Farabri ( forget his full name now) but out of the 100s if not 1000s of students Bhukari was supposed to only he claimed to have Bhukaris work ( this is also disputed as many of Frabaris student said what he had was mostly incomplete and they "filled in" quite a bit of it )

And if you know anything about the bogus science of hadith, if there is any unknown person in a chain of narrations then there is no way that hadith can be classified as Sahih but has to be classified as Dhaif, i.e weak, which is just a step above fabricated.

To solve this conundrum the mullahs as they always do came up with the brilliant solution, that one of them two centuries after Frabari having never met him or any one related to him vouched for him that yes Frabari was a reliable honest man of sound mind hence no longer an unknown narrator and all could by hunky dory in hadith land once again.

So back to sources there are websites like sunnah.org to books like Hadith: Muhammad's Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World by Johnathan Brown to The Biography Of Imam Bhukari by Salaah-ud-Din Ibn Ali ibn Abu Al Mujood. And there are tons of classical texts in Arabic by their renowned scholars and stuff etc etc.
 

NailaFirdous

MPA (400+ posts)
There is actually tons of literature with this kind of information, new and old, which all the hadithist seem to agree upon.. So its really hard to pinpoint to a single source. Which is hard for an ancient work of fiction like so called Sahih Bhukari. They really have no real proof that Bhukari even actually wrote any of it, because no surviving manuscript of his survives. All of today's Bhukari can be traced back to one of his alleged students, and unknown individual, Abdullah Al Farabri ( forget his full name now) but out of the 100s if not 1000s of students Bhukari was supposed to only he claimed to have Bhukaris work ( this is also disputed as many of Frabaris student said what he had was mostly incomplete and they "filled in" quite a bit of it )

And if you know anything about the bogus science of hadith, if there is any unknown person in a chain of narrations then there is no way that hadith can be classified as Sahih but has to be classified as Dhaif, i.e weak, which is just a step above fabricated.

To solve this conundrum the mullahs as they always do came up with the brilliant solution, that one of them two centuries after Frabari having never met him or any one related to him vouched for him that yes Frabari was a reliable honest man of sound mind hence no longer an unknown narrator and all could by hunky dory in hadith land once again.

So back to sources there are websites like sunnah.org to books like Hadith: Muhammad's Legacy in the Medieval and Modern World by Johnathan Brown to The Biography Of Imam Bhukari by Salaah-ud-Din Ibn Ali ibn Abu Al Mujood. And there are tons of classical texts in Arabic by their renowned scholars and stuff etc etc.
Yes I am familiar with some of this literature, the reason I find it very difficult to overlook the hadith is because without it 90% of rituals practised in Islam collapse like a wall made of sand. I wonder why people in the past never questioned this.
Practice and fard order of 5 daily prayers is only found in hadith.
 

Shimaz

MPA (400+ posts)
Oh context! Baby you don't who you are messing with. I've provably forgotten more about hadith than your entire clan put together remembers about hadith.

Your context is that later on some bhaand mullahs like Al Nawawi and Ibn Hajar came along and did some verbal gymnastics, jumped through a lot of mental hoops and made up BS about how, without any real proof mind you, just making wild guesses and assumptions, that oh he must have forbade it only for a certain time so that the Quran and hadith don't get mixed up.

And others like always when in doubt just made up more hadith. So more was made up hadeeth forbidding writing down ahaadeeth was abrogated by these ahaadeeth 😂 Just typing it out I couldn't help myself LOL and how ridiculous that sounds!

So yeah put back your context where it belongs 😉

Ooooo the famous imaginary so called "pillars of Islam" the last resort of the sectarian mushrik. So such thing exist in the Quran, and FYI which pillars? Shia or Sunni? lol

Go read Islamic history and the background of your pillars, your own bhaand moulvis say there were no established so called "pillars of Islam" even during the Prophet's time. They have not always been the same and changed over time and taken centuries to become what you know today as the pillars of Islam. Go read a book called The Development Of Islamic Rituals and learn something for a change.

But of course you wont, because you mushirks have no where to go except following blindly, even your moulvis accept this

Your Prophet is Bhukari and your Quran the Hadith.

You and your BS man. have you been molested by a "bhaand molvi" of mohalla that you can't complete a single sentence without dragging one in it. Molvis are thaikaydaars of islam like you cultists are trying to be one. Anyway...emm..

I asked you a simple thing and your cultist fellow here to come clean on your cultist beliefs that you follow in contrary to established Islam. A to Z.

If you can't do that and seems like you won't, then don't mind filling up pages here dumping all your notepad crap you cooked up in your miserable cultist life.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Yes I am familiar with some of this literature, the reason I find it very difficult to overlook the hadith is because without it 90% of rituals practised in Islam collapse like a wall made of sand. I wonder why people in the past never questioned this.
Practice and fard order of 5 daily prayers is only found in hadith.
Well the question you have to ask yourself is whether to follow something which is without a doubt the one true book from Allah and the only one he promised to protect, or to follow books written by men centuries after the prophet passed away, something they had no authorization to do from either the prophet or from Allah, and books which have such sketchy and unreliable foundations.

As for the rituals, Quran says its a detailed book and contains everything you need to know in it ( religion wise ) if these rituals were so important why is no detailed account on how to perform them? The Quran talks about many thing is the minutest detail but then somehow Allah forgot to mention how to perform these rituals forget perform doesn't even mention all their times!

For arguments sake lets say there are or were some kind of rituals to be performed or the Prophet performed them how do we know what those rituals were? I know some will say they were preserved by "tawattur" as in handed down generation to generation en masse, you think Allah would leave such an important piece of worship if we are to believe todays mullahs that the ritual prayer is the first thing Allah will ask you when the day comes and literally could mean an eternity in heaven or hell, to mass transmission? Just in todays world you can see every sect has its own way of praying, so which one right?

And you bring up a very good point about hadith, I always ask people to answer a hypothetical question of mine ( and no one has yet answered it ) imagine if today there was no Quran in the world and only hadith, how much of a difference would it make to the Muslim worlds belief and practices, also on the flip side, imagine if there was no hadith and only the Quran, how much of difference would it make to the Muslim worlds belief and practices?

When you truthfully answer these questions you'll realize what todays Muslims are actually following is not the Quran but man made hadith. And so many practices which if you really think about it are shirk have creeped in, like the so called 1st kalima and darood. Quran clearly states do not that do not call out to anyone besides Allah in your prayers and duas and yet Muslims call out to Mohammad and Ibrahim AND their families (??!!??) 5 times a day! Why do we call out to these two prophets when Quran clearly says all prophets are equal, ok through some verbal gymnastic we justify that then why are we calling out to their families????

They say there is no god but Alllah AND Mohammad is his messenger meaning you are putting Allah and his messenger on the same level, you go to their mosques and you see Allah written there and right next to it Muhammad and people bow to it all day long?

No wonders the early westerners in the first contact with Muslims never called them Muslims but rather Mohammadens, because thats what they saw, a bunch of people worshipping God and Muhammad.

And I know you find it difficult because even today I do, because it was the hardest things I've probably done in my life. And I still question myself regularly. You see just like everyone else I grew up in a traditional sunni Muslim house and followed the traditional ways learnt prayer, Quran, went on hajj into my mid 40s, I'm probably one of the few people here who has actually read the entire Sahih Bhukari cover to cover and chunks of the other sahih sitta.

But then this little pesky bugger started to make all sorts of outlandish claims that hadith is fake and we don't follow the Quran etc etc what blasphemy! Astaghfirullah I had never heard such preposterous claims in my life before and worse was I really didn't have any good arguments to get at him. That really ticked me off, so I said the only way to "defeat" this guy is arm myself with real knowledge and beat him down with it.

So I went into this deep dive research into hadith and the more I read the more of his claims started to sound true, and I would say over a period of anywhere between 1.5 to 2 years of researching hadith it had become clear to me that I was on the wrong path and had been following some perverted version of Islam. Heart breaking, which gave me this huge lump in my gut feeling so wronged.

But I also was also scared and constantly questioned myself, this can't be right, its not possible so many people for so many centuries are following something so crooked! What makes me so special and smarter than all the millions of "scholars" over time who have devoted every waking moment to the deen, that I was able to realize something so obvious and they weren't. WHAT IF I'm wrong! I'll surely burn in hell for this.

So in a nutshell it was far from easy.

Also people have always questioned hadith from day 1 of Islam, this is not something new as some might want to you believe, some western conspiracy to create division among the Muslims!!!

Here read this thread of mine on the history of hadith. You might find it useful


P.S : Sorry for the long post! If you find them difficult to read let me know.
 

Shimaz

MPA (400+ posts)
You people have nothing to defend or debate with any logic or evidence. You go around in circles, pretending to be a genius when it comes to Islam. I have always countered with the Quranic verses but, the ignorants are adamant about not paying any heed to them because they are Anti Quanrist.
Yeah is that your final statement before you crawl back in your hole? i told you several times...You and your cultist boy friend need to prove first the BS excel file you posted here and prove to everyone how you cooked up a number of 98.5443% whatever. Then come clean on your cultist beliefs...dont keep going round n round in circles...i dont have time to waste on your kindergarten confusions...
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Molvis are thaikaydaars of islam
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂that really is the funniest shit Ive read today.

follow in contrary to established Islam. A to Z.
Which established Islam? The Sunni established Islam or the Shia established Islam or maybe the Dawoodi Bohra established Islam? Or maybe the Ismaili established Islam Or maybe the Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, Sunnah Al Jamah, Brelvi, Deobandi!

Rest of your post was just a hissy fit because you got caught with your pants down again! 😂😂😂😂
 

Shimaz

MPA (400+ posts)
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂that really is the funniest shit Ive read today.


Which established Islam? The Sunni established Islam or the Shia established Islam or maybe the Dawoodi Bohra established Islam? Or maybe the Ismaili established Islam Or maybe the Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, Sunnah Al Jamah, Brelvi, Deobandi!

Rest of your post was just a hissy fit because you got caught with your pants down again! 😂😂😂😂
Again dodged the questions. Tu insaan hay ya suzuki...

Yeh dono boy friends kabhi line pay aa kar baat nahi karain gay...ider uder ki bakwas say 4 page bhar diay hain...

Apni life story likh ra hay ... point pay kabhi nahi aaey ga...

Ask that idiot how he came up with 98.665% figure...lol...
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Yeah is that your final statement before you crawl back in your hole? i told you several times...You and your cultist boy friend need to prove first the BS excel file you posted here and prove to everyone how you cooked up a number of 98.5443% whatever. Then come clean on your cultist beliefs...dont keep going round n round in circles...i dont have time to waste on your kindergarten confusions...
Ah yes now its coming back to me, you're that obnoxious religious patwaran who just likes to constantly "interrogate" others while moving the goals posts, tell me this tell me that tell me x tell me y and yet cannot address even the simplest of questions herself! 😂

No one here is your fathers servant who you can boss around, first learn how to have a proper discussion/debate/argument with. You are not some SHO of some thana where you are questioning mulzims! lol
 

Shimaz

MPA (400+ posts)
Ah yes now its coming back to me, you're that obnoxious religious patwaran who just likes to constantly "interrogate" others while moving the goals posts, tell me this tell me that tell me x tell me y and yet cannot address even the simplest of questions herself! 😂

No one here is your fathers servant who you can boss around, first learn how to have a proper discussion/debate/argument with. You are not some SHO of some thana where you are questioning mulzims! lol
Right...you can't then... i knew it you will never. Neither will he. I ve been asking him long enough now..both dodged it every time. Close your note pad now.

you're wasting my time.

Na tujhay apna pata hay na 99.885% ki figure ka..

teray bf nay paste kar dee aur tu nay maan li...

lekin 1400 kay quran aur hadith say problem hay isss ko...

lanat esi zindgi pay yar ...
 

Shimaz

MPA (400+ posts)
Please be careful about make judgements about other people, what do you know about me to make any conclusions? I am simply asking a question to another person and you are jumping in to judge me and others, this is a major sin in Islam. Be careful.
By others you mean the cult you're trying to befriend with?
They are la deen munkirs of hadith. ALL of it. Every single one. All sunnah...they claim to be following quran but they do not. If you'll ask him about salah..he'll cook up something salah means counting fairies in sky...

what i meant to tell you was...muster up courage and ask him where did he come up with those fabricated figures and youll know who is lying here...
 

Wake up Pak

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Yeah is that your final statement before you crawl back in your hole? i told you several times...You and your cultist boy friend need to prove first the BS excel file you posted here and prove to everyone how you cooked up a number of 98.5443% whatever. Then come clean on your cultist beliefs...dont keep going round n round in circles...i dont have time to waste on your kindergarten confusions...
Come to the point and show me the verse of Gabriel being an angel, or prove that your Namaz has all the details in your fake and contradictory books of ahadith.
Your nonsense here again proves that a bearded goat mullah must have molested you, and you want revenge by not accepting the Quran as the final Book of Allah.
 

Citizen X

President (40k+ posts)
Right...you can't then... i knew it you will never. Neither will he. I ve been asking him long enough now..both dodged it every time. Close your note pad now.

you're wasting my time.

Na tujhay apna pata hay na 99.885% ki figure ka..

teray bf nay paste kar dee aur tu nay maan li...

lekin 1400 kay quran aur hadith say problem hay isss ko...

lanat esi zindgi pay yar ...
Oh chal oye jaa ni. Aab yeh dialogue bohat purana hogaya hai, jub se tu is forum pe bakwas ker raha hai yeh dailogue ragard raha hai

See people who are really interested in exchange of ideas even if opposing your POV I'm all for it, see how I go into great details with others.

Worthless cretins like you are least interested in an exchange of you just want to shove your point of view down other peoples throats and show them how superior you are!

Chal jaa nuss itho, wadda aya thanedaar da puttar! lol