Saudi Arabian woman challenges male guardianship laws

Night_Hawk

Siasat.pk - Blogger
29 June 2011 Last updated at 07:05 ET

Saudi Arabian woman challenges male guardianship laws

By Dave Lee BBC World Service
_53719679_80358832.jpg

Guardianship rules severely restrict the freedom of women in Saudi Arabia .
When she was a little girl, Samia* would practice medical procedures on watermelons.
Back then, her dream was to become a successful surgeon and to marry a good man.
"I started to dream of the [wedding] gown when I was 10 or 11 years old. I dreamed of forming a small family - having a kid like my mum and to be a surgeon at the same time".
More than 30 years on, Samia is a fully-qualified doctor.
But in a country where the guardianship system means a woman's life is not her own, her dreams of a happy marriage - with a man of her own choosing - have been taken away from her.
Now, as she prepares to take her father before the Saudi Supreme Court, she spoke to Outlook on the BBC World Service about her hopes that her experience may pave the way to a "girl rebellion".
Arranged marriage In Saudi Arabia, a highly conservative Islamic state, women must have a male guardian.
Until marriage, guardianship will typically be the job of the father, but this role can be performed by uncles, brothers, and even sons.
Under this tradition, Saudi women must obtain permission from their guardian to work, travel, study, marry, or even access certain types of healthcare.
For Samia, it meant months of trying to persuade her father, a successful businessman, that going to a mixed-gender medical school was a good idea for her future.
"I made a bargain with my parents," she remembers. "I tried to convince them that... if I submitted my papers to the medical school, I will get a big salary, and the salary would be in their hands. They accepted this deal."
As she began medical school, much of Samia's monthly income was taken by her family - but more importantly to her, her choice of male suitor was a decision she was not allowed to make.
Start Quote
Immediately after I stepped out of court, [my father] took me home and beat me, and locked me up in my room for three months
Samia
"A lot of [colleagues from medical school] had proposed to me," she said. "But they had been refused by my parents for nonsense reasons."
The men were, her father and brothers warned, not from their tribe or were looking to steal her money.
For Samia, there was only one special man, who proposed after she graduated from medical school. Although he comes from a well-known and religious family, and is himself wealthy, her family still refused, she says.
"But I am very attached and I insisted on this guy," Samia says.
Instead, her father found a husband for her - a cousin, she says, who was much younger and less educated than her.
"He told me 'I'm offering you to him'," she recalls.
Locked up By 2002, aged 33, Samia says her battles with her father were going nowhere.
Eventually, she went to the courts and filed a complaint against him. But, according to Samia, he was able to convince the judge that her chosen marriage candidates were unsuitable.
After the court case, her father and brothers became violent towards her, she says.
"Immediately after I stepped out of court, [my father] took me home and beat me, and locked me up in my room for three months," Samia remembers.
Desperate to get back to her studies, Samia agreed to drop the issue of marriage. By 2006, she had qualified as a surgeon and was earning an impressive wage, most of which was being taken by her family.
By now she was 38 and felt she was running out of time to get married.
Yet, just as before, approaching her father about the possibility of granting permission for marriage was met with anger. Samia was once again locked in her room for months - her father telling the hospital where Samia worked that she was mentally unstable.
It was then that one of her sisters managed to smuggle a mobile phone into Samia's room. She rang a human rights society, which told her to send a letter asking for help. She threw the letter out of her first-floor window to a friend waiting below.
_53731229_116563827.jpg

Many Saudi women flouted driving bans recently amid efforts to gain more rights
Representatives from the rights group came with the police to rescue her from her father's home in the city of Medina, she says. They placed her in a government shelter in another Saudi city and helped Samia take her case back to court. Again, she lost.
She now works as the duty doctor at the shelter on wages well below what she would earn as a surgeon. But she fears that her family would track her down at a hospital.
After telling a journalist her story, news of her plight spread across Saudi Arabia and a lawyer agreed to take on her case pro-bono.
After years of failed appeals, Samia and the human rights society are gearing up to face the Saudi Supreme Court which, according to Amnesty International's Saudi Arabia researcher Dina el-Mamoun, will be a tough battle.
"It's difficult to win these cases because there are no clear guidelines in terms of what they have to prove. The judges have huge discretion in relation to these cases. The outcome really depends on which judge gets the case and who rules on it," says Ms Mamoun.
Samia's case is not a one off. Across the oil-rich desert kingdom, dozens of women are taking guardianship grievances to court. And they are gaining public support.
"I think in terms of public opinion, you do see a lot of sympathy with these women," says Ms Mamoun.
Samia, now 43, is still clinging to her childhood dream of having a family. Her special man, she says, is waiting for her and fighting bravely alongside her.
"I'm still dreaming," she says. "The flame will be alive until my death."
*We have withheld Samia's real name for privacy reasons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13932287
 
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awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I will now summarize the expected responses.

1) You want a sex free society 'madar-pidar azaad' like in europe???
2) First look at your own society before pointing fingers at Saudi Arabia. ([MENTION=5463]QaiserMirza[/MENTION] will be the first one to point this out)
3) The Saudi government has spent xyz million dollars recently on building abc center for helping women. (@simple_and_peacefull will highlight this fact)
4) Are you being paid by the Zionists to flame unnecessary issues to casue unrest in the best country in the world? ([MENTION=8825]gazoomartian[/MENTION] and his fan following will hunt down the zionists)
5) Mile long posts by [MENTION=14588]pakistan1947[/MENTION] extolling the virtues of women staying in the home and not getting an education. This will in the end kill the thread by making it cumbersome to read and reply to.
 
Last edited:
M

mimran301

Guest
Saudi Arabia is devastating land for women,...it is total men run show going on in that country.
Every 2nd day we read a news that certain Pakistani is going to get beheading and no one speaks out.
I am happy that at-least Indonesian got the balls to say...no, to their insanity.
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ناخلف اولاد اور کیسے کہتے ہیں
والدین اپنی اولاد پر ظلم نہیں کرتے
وہ اپنی اولاد کے لیے بہتر ہی سونچتے ہیں
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
I dont understand why you people show hater to islam, practically islam is the best religion dont look to western there life is heck, Islam knows what best for women and what best for men so dont confuse from the questions of west just follow your prophet PBUH, below is one example those peoples are happy who followed islam


and this video is for all of you please please watch this .................



Saudi Arabia is devastating land for women,...it is total men run show going on in that country.
Every 2nd day we read a news that certain Pakistani is going to get beheading and no one speaks out.
I am happy that at-least Indonesian got the balls to say...no, to their insanity.
 
Last edited:

SalmanKhanN

MPA (400+ posts)
This Article has nothing to do with Islam, or the Saudi government..this has to do with mentally sick saudi family members..Our prophet PBUH said: "When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks to marry your daughter, comply with his request. If you do not do so, there will be corruption and great evil on earth. " (Tirmidhi)...clearly our Prophet PBUH said that if the person who proposed is religiously committed marry ur daughters to them..

This is not the problem of guardianship..guardianship is best..because it is what Allah SWT has ordered us through Prophet PBUH.. this is a problem of sick minded family members..their daughters should be allowed to accept/reject proposals ..the only criteria to reject is his religious commitment..She cannot change the law of guardianship as far as i know as it is in Islam..it is not some law made by humans..but i do agree, these parents..just like in Pakistan india and other countries..are selfish and not following islam..that is why as our Prophet PBUH said..there will be corruption..hence u see this lady being deprived of marriage..May Allah SWT help her to get married soon and be able to enjoy the right Allah SWT has given her
I will now summarize the expected responses.

1) You want a sex free society 'madar-pidar azaad' like in europe???
2) First look at your own society before pointing fingers at Saudi Arabia. ([MENTION=5463]QaiserMirza[/MENTION] will be the first one to point this out)
3) The Saudi government has spent xyz million dollars recently on building abc center for helping women. (@simple_and_peacefull will highlight this fact)
4) Are you being paid by the Zionists to flame unnecessary issues to casue unrest in the best country in the world? ([MENTION=8825]gazoomartian[/MENTION] and his fan following will hunt down the zionists)
5) Mile long posts by [MENTION=14588]pakistan1947[/MENTION] extolling the virtues of women staying in the home and not getting an education. This will in the end kill the thread by making it cumbersome to read and reply to.
 
Last edited:

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
29 June 2011 Last updated at 07:05 ET

Saudi Arabian woman challenges male guardianship laws

By Dave Lee BBC World Service
_53719679_80358832.jpg

Guardianship rules severely restrict the freedom of women in Saudi Arabia .
When she was a little girl, Samia* would practice medical procedures on watermelons.
Back then, her dream was to become a successful surgeon and to marry a good man.
"I started to dream of the [wedding] gown when I was 10 or 11 years old. I dreamed of forming a small family - having a kid like my mum and to be a surgeon at the same time".
More than 30 years on, Samia is a fully-qualified doctor.
But in a country where the guardianship system means a woman's life is not her own, her dreams of a happy marriage - with a man of her own choosing - have been taken away from her.
Now, as she prepares to take her father before the Saudi Supreme Court, she spoke to Outlook on the BBC World Service about her hopes that her experience may pave the way to a "girl rebellion".
Arranged marriage In Saudi Arabia, a highly conservative Islamic state, women must have a male guardian.
Until marriage, guardianship will typically be the job of the father, but this role can be performed by uncles, brothers, and even sons.
Under this tradition, Saudi women must obtain permission from their guardian to work, travel, study, marry, or even access certain types of healthcare.
For Samia, it meant months of trying to persuade her father, a successful businessman, that going to a mixed-gender medical school was a good idea for her future.
"I made a bargain with my parents," she remembers. "I tried to convince them that... if I submitted my papers to the medical school, I will get a big salary, and the salary would be in their hands. They accepted this deal."
As she began medical school, much of Samia's monthly income was taken by her family - but more importantly to her, her choice of male suitor was a decision she was not allowed to make.
Start Quote
Immediately after I stepped out of court, [my father] took me home and beat me, and locked me up in my room for three months
Samia
"A lot of [colleagues from medical school] had proposed to me," she said. "But they had been refused by my parents for nonsense reasons."
The men were, her father and brothers warned, not from their tribe or were looking to steal her money.
For Samia, there was only one special man, who proposed after she graduated from medical school. Although he comes from a well-known and religious family, and is himself wealthy, her family still refused, she says.
"But I am very attached and I insisted on this guy," Samia says.
Instead, her father found a husband for her - a cousin, she says, who was much younger and less educated than her.
"He told me 'I'm offering you to him'," she recalls.
Locked up By 2002, aged 33, Samia says her battles with her father were going nowhere.
Eventually, she went to the courts and filed a complaint against him. But, according to Samia, he was able to convince the judge that her chosen marriage candidates were unsuitable.
After the court case, her father and brothers became violent towards her, she says.
"Immediately after I stepped out of court, [my father] took me home and beat me, and locked me up in my room for three months," Samia remembers.
Desperate to get back to her studies, Samia agreed to drop the issue of marriage. By 2006, she had qualified as a surgeon and was earning an impressive wage, most of which was being taken by her family.
By now she was 38 and felt she was running out of time to get married.
Yet, just as before, approaching her father about the possibility of granting permission for marriage was met with anger. Samia was once again locked in her room for months - her father telling the hospital where Samia worked that she was mentally unstable.
It was then that one of her sisters managed to smuggle a mobile phone into Samia's room. She rang a human rights society, which told her to send a letter asking for help. She threw the letter out of her first-floor window to a friend waiting below.
_53731229_116563827.jpg

Many Saudi women flouted driving bans recently amid efforts to gain more rights
Representatives from the rights group came with the police to rescue her from her father's home in the city of Medina, she says. They placed her in a government shelter in another Saudi city and helped Samia take her case back to court. Again, she lost.
She now works as the duty doctor at the shelter on wages well below what she would earn as a surgeon. But she fears that her family would track her down at a hospital.
After telling a journalist her story, news of her plight spread across Saudi Arabia and a lawyer agreed to take on her case pro-bono.
After years of failed appeals, Samia and the human rights society are gearing up to face the Saudi Supreme Court which, according to Amnesty International's Saudi Arabia researcher Dina el-Mamoun, will be a tough battle.
"It's difficult to win these cases because there are no clear guidelines in terms of what they have to prove. The judges have huge discretion in relation to these cases. The outcome really depends on which judge gets the case and who rules on it," says Ms Mamoun.
Samia's case is not a one off. Across the oil-rich desert kingdom, dozens of women are taking guardianship grievances to court. And they are gaining public support.
"I think in terms of public opinion, you do see a lot of sympathy with these women," says Ms Mamoun.
Samia, now 43, is still clinging to her childhood dream of having a family. Her special man, she says, is waiting for her and fighting bravely alongside her.
"I'm still dreaming," she says. "The flame will be alive until my death."
*We have withheld Samia's real name for privacy reasons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13932287



This may be a fake news created by miscreants who want to create a situation in KSA similar to Libya/Egypt.

I do wonder very much why all women's lib, democracy crap, or dictatorship news come out of West specially the BBC. It seems that there is a certain person or group that contracted with ABC to spread fabricated news against Islamic countries.

There is nothing wrong with the status of women in KSA, as a matter of fact its the BEST. On the flip side, women in UK/US/Europe are FREE, or are they?

They are not free, they are victim of men's social atrocities. They are coaxed into porn movies, bought every minute of the hour, sexed with false promise of marriage, they end up carrying illegitimate children, STD, AIDS, herpes, child support, you name it and THEY ARE FREE

I can name a dozen women in a jiffy that have been a 'soft' victim of social atrocity of the 'male dominated' US.

Women in kSA should shut and be thankful for what they have and stop conspiring with the west
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This may be a fake news created by miscreants who want to create a situation in KSA similar to Libya/Egypt.

I do wonder very much why all women's lib, democracy crap, or dictatorship news come out of West specially the BBC. It seems that there is a certain person or group that contracted with ABC to spread fabricated news against Islamic countries.

There is nothing wrong with the status of women in KSA, as a matter of fact its the BEST. On the flip side, women in UK/US/Europe are FREE, or are they?

They are not free, they are victim of men's social atrocities. They are coaxed into porn movies, bought every minute of the hour, sexed with false promise of marriage, they end up carrying illegitimate children, STD, AIDS, herpes, child support, you name it and THEY ARE FREE

I can name a dozen women in a jiffy that have been a 'soft' victim of social atrocity of the 'male dominated' US.

Women in kSA should shut and be thankful for what they have and stop conspiring with the west


Khud Canada kyun betha hay !??

Ja na KSA!!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I dont understand why you people show hater to islam, practically islam is the best religion dont look to western there life is heck, Islam knows what best for women and what best for men so dont confuse from the questions of west just follow your prophet PBUH, below is one example those peoples are happy who followed islam


and this video is for all of you please please watch this .................


Thank you brother for sharing these beautiful videos.
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Khud Canada kyun betha hay xxxxxxxxx!??

Ja na KSA!!!

I thought when you are discussing the issues about our faith and religion, you must be a nice person.
Contrary to that your language shows different picture of yours.

That person is bad when others are hurt by his tounge.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
محمد رفیی صاھب کا گانا

بے پردہ ہو جاے شمع تو کوئی تکنے کو بھی تیار نہیں
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I thought when you are discussing the issues about our faith and religion, you must be a nice person.
Contrary to that your language shows different picture of yours.

That person is bad when others are hurt by his tounge.

Awan4never has been hurt a couple of times by the Canadian immigration dept of the high commission. He has been refused visa each time he applied. he is hurting deep. He should try for a job in Saudia. If I were an employer, I would have sponsored him but *** sigh ***
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I thought when you are discussing the issues about our faith and religion, you must be a nice person.
Contrary to that your language shows different picture of yours.

That person is bad when others are hurt by his tounge.


Im not a nice person.

As you can see from my signature I am on the payroll of some very bad people.
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Awan4never has been hurt a couple of times by the Canadian immigration dept of the high commission. He has been refused visa each time he applied. he is hurting deep. He should try for a job in Saudia. If I were an employer, I would have sponsored him but *** sigh ***

That is the stupidest comeback I have ever seen!!
It doesnt even make sense!!!

Im talking about your love for the Saudis yet you are a citizen of a 'kaffir nation'.
Why dont you migrate to the land where women have it so good instead of living in the west where women can be so easily "coaxed into porn movies" as you so elegantly pointed out?? :p

Im probably going back to Norway...so no thank you..Canada is too far away. :p
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
you are just sick salman
This Article has nothing to do with Islam, or the Saudi government..this has to do with mentally sick saudi family members..Our prophet PBUH said: "When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks to marry your daughter, comply with his request. If you do not do so, there will be corruption and great evil on earth. " (Tirmidhi)
This is not the problem of guardianship.. this is a problem of sick minded family members..their daughters should be allowed to accept proposals they like..the only criteria to reject is his religious commitment..She cannot change the law of guardianship as far as i know it is in Islam..it is not some law made by humans..but i do agree these parents..just like in Pakistan india and other countries..are selfish and not following islam..that is why as our Prophet PBUH said..there will be corruption..hence u see this lady being deprived of marriage..May Allah SWT help her to get married soon and be able to enjoy the right Allah SWT has given her