SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

[Pakistani1947]

Salam,
Instead of sharing my own thoughts guess it's better to present the views straight from a master mouth. Many a great Sufi masters of the past have renounced practicing Qawwaali, among them were eminent shaykhs like Junayd al-Baghdadi, `Abdul-Qadir of Jeelan, Mujaddid Alif Thani, Sayyid Ahmed Brelwi (may Allaah have mercy on them). What follows could be taken as the opinion of `Ali b. `Uthman al-Hujwiri[r] on the issue;

As for little bit of music un-related with religion then there's no harm in it, but using music as a religious act i.e. taking music as means to attain Allaah's closeness is futility and sin.
Salam!

6sman, your "Kash-ul-Majoob" is superior to Authentic Hadeeth in Sahih Muslim. Why are you using fabricated stories from Kash-ul-Majoob to justify your point of view, instead you could easily use Authentic Hadeeths to disapprove Qawali. Why are you ashamed of presenting Qur'aan and Hadeeth for this purpose?

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

 

[6sman]

Salam Pakistan1947,

Think you didn't at all read what I posted from `Ali Hujwiri[r], he actually disproves Qawwali, so read again;

And as for Qawwali being sin then I said clearly

As for little bit of music un-related with religion then there's no harm in it, but using music as a religious act i.e. taking music as means to attain Allaah's closeness is futility and sin.

Salam!

 

[babadeena]

Salam Pakistan1947,

Think you didn't at all read what I posted from `Ali Hujwiri[r], he actually disproves Qawwali, so read again;

And as for Qawwali being sin then I said clearly



Salam!

So then what will be all those involved in Qawali: Writers, Singers, Composers, Listners, At least give them
some name, who commit this thing (Sarray Nabi Taray Dar kay Swalee), Even Ibrahim(as) who is the
IMAMulnaas, he is also swalee?

 

[Cheeko]

It clear that Tousif Rahman is one of their teachers. The few people left have shown their true face.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of kind of Bidats in Islam

Salam Pakistan1947,

Think you didn't at all read what I posted from `Ali Hujwiri[r], he actually disproves Qawwali, so read again;

And as for Qawwali being sin then I said clearly

Salam!

I know you were trying to disapprove Qawali by quoting fabricated story from Kash-ul-Majoob. My point is that why you need "Kash-ul-Majoob to justify your point of view whereas you could easily use Authentic Hadeeths to disapprove Qawali. Not using Quraan and authentic hadeeth to find solution to religious issues is the main cause of all kind of Bidats in Islam. We should try to avoid anybody's quotes in religious matter, if we could find the answer in other Quraan and Hadeeths.

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

6sman, your "Kash-ul-Majoob" is superior to Authentic Hadeeth in Sahih Muslim. Why are you using fabricated stories from Kash-ul-Majoob to justify your point of view, instead you could easily use Authentic Hadeeths to disapprove Qawali. Why are you ashamed of presenting Qur'aan and Hadeeth for this purpose?

Actually my two posts were joined together creating this confusion. I have now separated them. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Reality of Qawali - ????? ?? ?????

Qawali is even worst than any form of non-religious Music.

The reason is simple, the difference is the same between as in next two acts; for example, doing a sin knowingly that it is sin and doing a sin and thinking that it is a "Sawab" and Allah will (Nauzobillah) will give reward.

One can always correct himself /or herself if she/he understand that it is a sin. But the person who is doing a sin thinking that he will get reward will very rarely correct himself / herself.

See what happens if you start contaminating Islam with biddat like Qawali. Please do not behave like an ignorant by saying that "Oh! it is coming from a Wahabi", listen what he is saying. If someone can response logically, fine, otherwise please keep quite:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

 

[sngilani]

 

[Cheeko]

People telling about Tousif Rahman r well aware of his bad views about four mazhabs and also know that he tells yazeed raziallah and so on. He can tell anything what he likes and you can twist as you like. He has no crediblty for people of four mazhabs and also shias. This means he has no crediblty for majority muslims of the world. There r many videos on you tube which answer Tousif blame game but because he is no body for me so I dont have to waste my time on him. The good point is that his followers have been revealed.

 

[Pakistani1947]

SnGilani, please do not quote Iqbal in religious issues.

The saying of Iqbal has zero value in front of Quraan and Hadeeth.

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

 

[basim973]

For the attention of all my brothers:
Zikar is the core of sufism.......no muslim deny the importance of zikar but most important zikar is salat, faraz on each muslim 5 times a day. If a muslim donot get salat right then wot is the worth of rest of the nafali zikar.

Following is the namaz I used to follow and which is the namaz of most of the pakistani people.

http://www.trueislam.info/groupmails/namaz.htm

From part1-3 Ayats from Quran and Hadith are used and from part4-onward only Alamgiri and dur-e-mukhtar is mentioned. Same Hadith books mentioned in part1-3 have got the full Tariqa of namaz from the prophet (pbuh), why part4-onward they donot mention these hadith books again?
WHy on part4-onward women namaz is different from men, when there is no such prove from any authentic hadiths was provided.

For some of my brother, an escape route would be that I am Wahabi, salafi, ahle-hadith, najdi etc., Allah key bundoo, please pay attention and do a little bit of tadabur and research and seek Allah's help.

May Allah guide us all.

Brothers Babadeena and cheeko were talking abt namaz, please read the quote carefully and think.

 

[basim973]

People telling about Tousif Rahman r well aware of his bad views about four mazhabs and also know that he tells yazeed raziallah and so on. He can tell anything what he likes and you can twist as you like. He has no crediblty for people of four mazhabs and also shias. This means he has no crediblty for majority muslims of the world. There r many videos on you tube which answer Tousif blame game but because he is no body for me so I dont have to waste my time on him. The good point is that his followers have been revealed.

Brother you really have an understanding problem, your mind is locked and your really donot seem to understand the simple things, yet try to pretend that you have done a good research ............. do something abt this brother.

 

[sngilani]

SnGilani, please do not quote Iqbal in religious issues.

The saying of Iqbal has zero value in front of Quraan and Hadeeth.

انسانی حواس صرف پانچ نہیں بلکہ ان کے علاوہ بھی ایک حس موجود ہے جس سے کوہستان کی بلند و پست چوٹیوں اور تاروں کی بکھری ہوئی محفل میں رشتہ وحدت نظر آتا ہے اور کائنات میں ایک روح ، ایک قوّت ناظمہ اور مشیت قاہرہ کا احساس ہوتا ہے - اس حس کا نام ہے وجدان اور وجدان کو چمکانے کا نام تصوّف ہے جسے خدا شناسی بھی کہتے ہیں ؛

خودی مے گم ہے خدائی تلاش کر غافل
خدا کرے تجھے تیرے مقام سے آگاہ

 

[babadeena]

Brothers Babadeena and cheeko were talking abt namaz, please read the quote carefully and think.

I was cooking him in my posts 264 and 272, you Brother, thrown him from
Frying Pan into Fire. He is a kid, strongly under the influence of a particular group,
has got sterotype material on flash drive, like a tape-recorder, he was
pasting the same material again and again, until i braked him a little. Now you
may have noticed that he is no more making such long posts either, because
those were bifurcated and divided into pieces.

 

[sngilani]

تصوّف کوئی فلسفیانہ نظریہ حیات نہیں بلکہ نظام حیات ہے جس سے کائنات کے متعلق تصور ہی بدل جاتا ہے -
قرآن کائنات کو بیکار نہیں سمجھتا بلکہ بار بار مشاہدہ موجودات کی ہدایت کرتا ہے اور پھر مرئی حقائق سے اک غیر مرئی عالم کی طرف لے جاتا ہے -

الله ایک چراغ ہے جو کائنات میں جل رہا ہے اور اس کا تصور وہ قمقمہ ہے جو سینہ انسان میں فروزاں ہے - یہ دیا بوجھ جائے تو قلب و نظر پہ تاریکیاں مسلط ہو جاتی ہیں اور اس تاریک ماحول میں حیات بھٹکنے لگتی ہے اور بارے بارے حادثوں سے دو چار ہوتی ہے - میرے نقطۂ نگاہ سے سب سے بڑا حادثہ الله سے کٹ جانا ہے -

 

[Pakistani1947]

انسانی حواس صرف پانچ نہیں بلکہ ان کے علاوہ بھی ایک حس موجود ہے جس سے کوہستان کی بلند و پست چوٹیوں اور تاروں کی بکھری ہوئی محفل میں رشتہ وحدت نظر آتا ہے اور کائنات میں ایک روح ، ایک قوّت ناظمہ اور مشیت قاہرہ کا احساس ہوتا ہے - اس حس کا نام ہے وجدان اور وجدان کو چمکانے کا نام تصوّف ہے جسے خدا شناسی بھی کہتے ہیں ؛

خودی مے گم ہے خدائی تلاش کر غافل
خدا کرے تجھے تیرے مقام سے آگاہ

SnGilani, please do not introduce your personal views in religious issues.

Again, either Iqbal or you say, it has zero value in front of Quraan
and Hadeeth.

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

 

[sngilani]

SnGilani, please do not introduce your personal views in religious issues.

Again, either Iqbal or you say, it has zero value in front of Quraan and Hadeeth.

سرور عالم حضورپر نور صلے الله علیھ و سلّم ہر نماز کے بعد عموماً یہ دعا مانگا کرتے تھے ، ترجمہ؛ "اے رب ! لوگوں کو میرا اور مجھے لوگوں کا محبوب بنا"

محبوبیت کا یہ مقام بڑا عظیم ہے جسے حاصل کرنے کے لئے بڑی کٹھن راہوں سے گزرنا پڑتا ہے - اور عام مشاہدہ یہ ہے کہ عبادت اور طاعت کا بھی اس مے بڑا دخل ہے - جنید و با یزید ، اویس و سلیمان ، اور دیگر ہزارہا اہل دل اس منزل تک اسی راہ سے پہنچے تھے - شوھرت اور محبوببیت میں زمین آسمان کا فرق ہے ، بے شک چنگیز و ہلاکو، ہٹلر اور نپولیون عالمگیر شوھرت کے مالک تھے لیکن وہ کسی ایل دل میں بھی اپنا مقام نہ بنا سکے اور دوسری طرف حسین و حیدر ، فاروق و صدیق اور رومی و غزالی کا نام سنتے ہی کروڑوں مسلمانان عالم کی گردنیں تعظیماً جھک جاتی ہیں

 

[Cheeko]

Brother you really have an understanding problem, your mind is locked and your really donot seem to understand the simple things, yet try to pretend that you have done a good research ............. do something abt this brother.

Brother Basim you really have an understanding problem, your mind is locked and your really donot seem to understand the simple things, yet try to pretend that you have done a good research ............. do something abt this brother

 

[Cheeko]

I was cooking him in my posts 264 and 272, you Brother, thrown him from
Frying Pan into Fire. He is a kid, strongly under the influence of a particular group,
has got sterotype material on flash drive, like a tape-recorder, he was
pasting the same material again and again, until i braked him a little. Now you
may have noticed that he is no more making such long posts either, because
those were bifurcated and divided into pieces.

Break. Biurcate. frying pan. fire. I am laughing at you.

 

[sngilani]

SnGilani, please do not introduce your personal views in religious issues.

Again, either Iqbal or you say, it has zero value in front of Quraan
and Hadeeth.

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)

پاکستان کی کسی بستی میں چلے جاہیں وہاں بلھے شاہ، فرید، باہو، (نیز رحمان بابا و لطیف وغیرہ ) کی کافیوں کا چرچا پائیں گے - مولانا رومی کی مثنوی ، جامی کی یوسف زلیخا اور سادی کی گلستان صدیوں سے پڑھی جا رہی ہیں اور دوسری طرف خود ہمارے عہد میں ایسے سینکڑوں شعراء و ادباء جن کی تخلیقات سے ان کے ہمسائے تک نہ آشنا ہیں - انہیں نہ قبول عام حاصل ہے، نہ رنگ دوام - حالانکہ ان میں بعض کے کلام میں فصاحت و بلاغت کے تمام اوصاف پائے جاتے ہیں اور خیال میں بھی خاصی پرواز و ندرت ہے - بعض ایسے ادیب بھی ہیں جن کے نام سے تو سب آشنا ہیں لیکن ان کا کلام عظمت و احترام سے محروم ہے -
سوال یہ پیدا ہوتا ہے کہ اس قبول عام و احترام کی کیا وجہ ہے؟ اس سوال کے کئی جواب ہو سکتے ہیں ، مثلاً ادیب کا اسلوب انوکھا تھا، شاعر کے خیالات میں پرواز تھی، موضوع کلام کا بلند تھا - و قس علی هذا - اسی سوال کا ایک جواب قرآن نے دیا ہے اور وہ یہ کہ
انّا نا شئیہ اللیل ھی اشد و طاء و ا قوم قیل... (مزمل)
اس آیت میں "ا قوم" کا لفظ تشریح چاہتا ہے - اس کا مادہ ق-و-م ہے جس سے مختلف مشتاقف تیار ہوئے - مثلا قیام ، تقوم ، اقامت ، قوام ، قیم ، قائم ، استقامہ ، وغیرہ ...ان کے مانے جدا جدا ہیں - لیکن ایک مفہوم ایسا ہے جو ان تمام میں مشترک ہے اور وہ ہے ثبات ، مضبوطی یا استحکام، تو ا قوم کے مانے ہوں گے، بہت مضبوط، پائدار، اور محکم اور آیت کا ترجمہ ہو گا
" تحقیق شب خیزی نفس کو کچلنے اور کلام کو محکم اور پائدار بنانے میں بہت ممد ہے -"

 

[Cheeko]

Brothers Babadeena and cheeko were talking abt namaz, please read the quote carefully and think.

I can answer and shatter your myth but for sake of wisdom me letting people see your true stance about four mazhabs which is Jamaat Ahlus Sunnah. You people have been played into it. Ouch it hurts. Those people who r from Jamaat Ahlus Sunnah and were believing in your propoganda should see and know your views which eventually end up hating Jinnah and Iqbal and Pakistan.

Pakistan was created by Muslims and these were those Muslims those who dont believe in your propoganda and were in majority. They had same beliefs of Sunnis and Shias of today which you call kafirs. You people r proving that Pakistan was not made by Muslims but by mushriks and kafirs. Me enjoying very much and people should see your true face.