Taqlid - The Ahle Sunnah wal Jamah Concept

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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Taqlid can be defined as the acceptance of a mujtahid's statements (fatawa) without knowing his references (evidences) [an-Nawawi, Tazeeb; and Qadi Shawkani, Irshad al-Fahul]



There is a consensus amongst the majority of Muslims that we should follow the four major Imams in matters of Shari'a. Such matters include:


Those matters in which there is no direct, single and clear meaning in sources of Shari'a
When there exists a difference of opinion between the Sahaba upon an issue, the Imams have tried to show the similarities in them
We only observe taqlid in matters of fiqh, not in our 'aqida. The unity of Allah, the finality of the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and the Day of Judgement etc. are matters of 'aqida so they are not concerned with taqlid.
Some say that it is a form of shirk (polytheism) to observe taqlid of anyone apart from Allah. In particular, to follow only one Imam is a bid'a. They say that the evidence from all the Imams should be read and weighed in order that only those verdicts based upon strong evidence can be accepted and weak ones rejected.



The view of the Ahl as-Sunna wa'l-Jama'a is that it is impossible for an ordinary Muslim to go directly to the Qur'an and Sunna and extract religious laws. This is due to the fact that these sources of knowledge contain many matters which are unclear - thus requiring research into many other sources along with the application of rules which assist in understanding the matter under study. In order to do this, a person needs to possess both a deep and broad knowledge of Islam, which is both impractical and not incumbent upon each and every Muslim. Allah does not expect all Muslims to become scholars, rather He orders them to refer to those who have knowledge. Consider the following verse:
"And ask those who recall, if you know not"
[Sura 16, verse 43]


Also, in Sura Nisa:
"If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
[Sura 4, verse 83]


For those who have the necessary pre-requisites, such as being a master of 'ulum al-Qur'an, master of ahadith and their principles, 'aqa'id, fiqh principles, Tafsir and its principles, and jarh wa ta'dil (the science of hadith narrators). They are allowed to take ahkam (legal rulings) from the Shari'a. Such a person can be called a mujtahid. However, many great scholars who were qualified to perform ijtihad, followed Imams. For example, Qadi Abu Yusuf, Imam Muhammad and Imam Zafar were able to perform ijtihad but followed the opinion of Imam Abu Hanifa.



There are many categories of hadith such as mutawatir (rigourously authenticated), authentic, not authentic, weak and those which are fabricated.Some are mansukh, which means that certain matters were at first permissible but later made impermissible - for instance talking during the salat during the early period of Islam was permissible but later on made unlawful. This is why taqlid is a necessity - the scholars have taken all the above into consideration before issuing their verdict.
[h=3]
Rejectors of taqlid
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Those who tried to reject taqlid, like Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya, were unsuccessful. He was, however, not a muqallid (one who must do taqlid of a mujtahid) like the ordinary people. Nether the less, his works of literature contain influences from the Hanbali school of thought. He always preferred his fatwas to Imam Ahmad's. His followers also claim that they are not muqallid to anyone and taqlid is bid'a. But, they always perform taqlid of Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya and quote fatawa from his books. The following is one such example:
Shaykh Ibn Baaz (the late popular government scholar of Saudi Arabia) wrote one fatwa against Milad an-Nabi and another against travelling to the grave of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). He wrote that it is impermissible to celebrate the Milad, as Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya's research had stated that this was bid'a.Likewise, he stated that to visit the Prophet's (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) grave is impermissible because this was the opinion of Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya [Ibn Baaz, Milad an-Nabi; and Ziyara Roza Sharif]



We can see how Shaykh Ibn Baaz is blindly depending upon Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya's research. The Shaykh also performs taqlid to scholars such as Hafiz Ibn al-Qayyim, Hafiz Ibn Kathir, Ibn al-Hadi, Shawkani and Albani.
This is quite astonishing! These people follow their Imams but still claim that they are not blind followers and call the followers of the four Imams blind followers! In reality, everyone does taqlid in one way another. Some follow Imam Abu Hanifa, some follow Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya. Furthermore, when they are told that a hadith is weak, authentic or fabricated, they accept this without researching it themselves. Cosequently, they blindly follow Imam al-Bukhari, Ibn Abi Hatim, Hafiz Mizayy, Hafiz al-'Asqalani, Hafiz adh-Dhahabi, and Hafiz Maqdasi. The fact is that these people do not conduct their own research, but 'blindly' follow the research of their scholars.
When rejectors of taqlid label a hadith as being authentic, weak or fabricated, they actually imitate scholars of Hadith who have previously categorised ahadith into the above groups. Also, the technical terms used by the classical scholars to describe the different ahadith, such as mursal, mu'dal, shadhdh, mu'allal, 'aziz, and gharib, are not mentioned in the Qur'an or Sunna. To utilise these terms is also a form of taqlid.



Similarly, to accept principles of Hadith and Tafsir and also to interpret the Qur'an and Sunna in the light of these principles is to follow the imams who have developed these sciences. People who do not follow imams should find out the strength of a hadith directly without referring to any imam. They should also find new terms to describe the hadith, instead of mursal, shadhdh etc. They should invent their own principles of Hadith and Tafsir and then study the Qur'an and Sunna in the light of these new principles. Only then can they save themselves from 'shirk and bid'a'.


[h=3]Doubts Raised by the Objectors to Taqlid[/h]
Those who oppose taqlid argue that there is no need to follow one particular Imam. They conduct their own personal research, in the hope that they will find the Imam that has the best opinion.If they think that a particular opinion is wrong they will try and find another until such a time that they follow aspects from all the four Imams. We say that this is not possible because the Imams have already performed thorough research into the Islamic sources and have utilised their own principles to determine the best opinions. Thus, you have to follow one Imams principle. Otherwise, you are using your own principles that are most likely to be that of your desires, such as that which is easy to perform.



Here are some examples: Imam ash-Shafi'i is of the opinion that if you touch a woman your wudu breaks. On the other hand, Imam Abu Hanifa says that this action does not break the wudu.Furthermore, Imam ash-Shafi'i does not accept mursal hadith, unlike Imam Abu Hanifa. If there exists two hadith, one explaining the Prophet's (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) words and the other explains the Prophet's (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) practice, Imam Abu Hanifa accepts the words to have more authority, whereas Imam ash-Shafi'i says that the practices have more authority.From these examples we know that we cannot follow two Imams. So how can we follow four or more Imams at one time?
Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya says that when a person begins to follow one particular Imam without any valid Islamic reason he begins to follow another Imam - he is actually following his own wishes and not the other Imam and this is haram. The great scholars have strongly discouraged for a person to sometimes follow the fiqh of ash-Shafi'i and at other times the fiqh of Abu Hanifa [Fatawa Ibn Taymiyya, vol. 20, Chapter of Taqlid]



Thus, from Hafiz Ibn Taymiyya's fatwa we have understood that at one time we should follow one Imam and taqlid is a necessity.
 

zeshaan

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Hazoor pak kee zindagee Quraan,Sunnat ahoor hadees kaa majmooaa hay,
QURAN PAK kay bataay huay asooloon aoor rastay per zindagee guzaree,
QURAAN PAK kay kahay huaay per ammal kia. yeh sunnat hay.
AOOR joo kuch Ap nay batlaya,Woh HADEES_E_NABVEE hay.

Phir tazzad aoor tafarqa kaisa?
 

such bolo

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم

[MENTION=13572]modern fakir[/MENTION]

کیا ایک سوال کا جواب دسکتے ہیں؟؟؟ امام ابو حنیفہ رحمہ اللہ کے والد کیا تھے؟؟؟ وہ کس کے مقلد تھے؟


 

Malang009

Citizen
بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم

@modern fakir

کیا ایک سوال کا جواب دسکتے ہیں؟؟؟ امام ابو حنیفہ رحمہ اللہ کے والد کیا تھے؟؟؟ وہ کس کے مقلد تھے؟


سب سے پہلے تو یہ فقیر صاحب کے مضمون کا کوی رد نہیں بلکہ شوشہ چھوڑنے والا سوال ہے جسکی ساخت سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ شرارت کرنے کے لیے چھوڑا گیا ہے ۔ لیکن پھر بھی میں آپکو جواب دے دیتا ہوں ، امام ابو حنیفہؒ کے والد اگر خود مجتہد نہیں تھے تو اپنے علاقے کے کسی مجتہد کے مقلد تھے ۔ امید ہے آپ کی تسلی ہو گئی ہو گی ۔

ایک سوال آپ نے کیا تھا ایک ہم کرتے ہیں جس جاہل شخص کو اردو بھی پڑھنی نہیں آتی وہ قرآن اور حدیث پر بغیر کسی مجتہد کے کیسے عمل کرے گا ؟؟؟
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
Jo jahil hai usay chahya k wo kisi alim say quran o hadeeth ki roshni main masla pochay aur us per amal karay yeh taqleed nahi kehlati

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سب سے پہلے تو یہ فقیر صاحب کے مضمون کا کوی رد نہیں بلکہ شوشہ چھوڑنے والا سوال ہے جسکی ساخت سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ شرارت کرنے کے لیے چھوڑا گیا ہے ۔ لیکن پھر بھی میں آپکو جواب دے دیتا ہوں ، امام ابو حنیفہؒ کے والد اگر خود مجتہد نہیں تھے تو اپنے علاقے کے کسی مجتہد کے مقلد تھے ۔ امید ہے آپ کی تسلی ہو گئی ہو گی ۔

ایک سوال آپ نے کیا تھا ایک ہم کرتے ہیں جس جاہل شخص کو اردو بھی پڑھنی نہیں آتی وہ قرآن اور حدیث پر بغیر کسی مجتہد کے کیسے عمل کرے گا ؟؟؟
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
Yeh modern fakir k pesh ki gai ahadeeth per koi aetabar nahi, maine modern fakir bhai say kai dafa kaha hai k jo hadeeth pesh karain us ka hawala thik say dya karain takay hum follow kar sakain, jo hawalay aaj tk dya hai modern fakir nay mjhay tu aaj tk nahi milay
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
TAQLEED is a system promoted by imperial mullahs to make muslims ignorant about their deen so that then people could be taken away from deen and used and abused by their kings and rulers.

Why would Allah send so many prophets telling each person to use his own sense and not listen others unless they talk with proof in line with divine revelation.

By taqleed you are willingly becoming slaves of mullahs and rulers. Be a grown up person, don't be a baby mind.

It is lack of thought process about the quran that today many muslims are grave worshippers rather than leading others alright.

The very lack of knowledge about islam in muslims demands that taqleed should be thrown in dustbin of history where it belongs.

Don't deceive yourselves by thinking you are doing any service to islam by following others like sheep.

The quran tells us story of mullahs of bani israel and condemns them, why? Because people left the message of Allah and started listening to their mullahs. Islam has no place for personality cults.

Why no prophet encouraged taqleed in the stories of the quran? They lacked resources more than us so they had more right to taqleed ie there was no printing press.

Today we almost all have direct access to the divine message, so why do we need to listen to others till we learn how to judge whether they are leading us or misleading us?

Individual free thought on quran and islam is totally gone from islamic world thanks to mullahs who push for taqleed and the like that spreads ignorance amongst muslims.

My advice please discourage taqleed at each and every opportunity if you want to see islam make a come back. Think yourself and encopurage others to do the same to break out of this evil trap. Go to molvies and question them to encourage thought process in them as well.
 
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Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Also, in Sura Nisa:
"If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
[Sura 4, verse 83]

Following is the complete translation of the verses of Quraan you are using in support of Taqleed:
وَإِذَا جَاءَهُمْ أَمْرٌ مِّنَ الْأَمْنِ أَوِ الْخَوْفِ أَذَاعُوا بِهِ ۖ وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ ۗ وَلَوْلَا فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَاتَّبَعْتُمُ الشَّيْطَانَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا
Yusuf Ali 83: When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of Allah unto you, all but a few of you would have fallen into the clutches of Satan. (Quraan 4:83)
اور جب ان کے پاس کوئی خبر امن یا ڈر کی پہنچتی ہے تو اسے مشہور کر دیتے ہیں اور اگر اسے رسول او راپنی جماعت کے ذمہ دار اصحاب تک پہنچاتے تو اس کی تحقیق کرتے جو ان میں تحقیق کرنے والے ہیں اوراگر تم پر الله کا فضل اوراس کی مہربانی نہ ہوتی تو البتہ تم شیطان کے پیچھے ہو لیتے سوائے چند لوگوں کے

The above verse has nothing to do with Taqleed. It is related to rumors spread by enemies to harm Muslim during the time of wars. During the period of excitement, rumors were on the air from many quarters. Sometimes baseless and exaggerated reports were received that caused alarm in Madinah and its outskirts. Then some cunning enemy would send news that all was quiet in the enemy camp, merely to conceal some impending danger and to keep the Muslims off their guard. Only those people who loved excitement, took keen interest in such rumors; who did not take the conflict between Islam and un-Islam to be a serious matter; and who did not realize the grave consequences of indulging in such baseless rumors. Whenever they heard any rumor, they would spread it from place to place, without considering the great harm their pastime was causing. In this verse, such people have been warned of the gravity of their offense and strictly admonished to refrain from spreading rumors. They have been told to report any news they heard to the responsible people and then keep silent about it.

Modern fakir, please have some "Khauf-e-Khuda" (خوف خدا) while posting anything to do with religion. Your post may be viewed by thousand of members and if you write something against the Islamic believes you may be answerable on the day of Judgment in front of Allah. These Peers you blind follow will not be able to save you on the day of judgment. Being ignorant of any religious matter is different than being arrogant after truth (Haq) is clearly delivered to you. If someone tells you with the reference of Quraan and authentic Hadeeths about any religious matter which is against the understanding of your Peer /imam then you must investigate and follow the decision based on Quraan and authentic Hadeeths and reject the saying of your Peer / Imam. This is what said by all four Imam that if you find anything in them which is against the Quraan and authentic Hadeeths then reject their saying and follow Quraan and authentic Hadeeths. Point to be noted that non of the four Imam imposed blind following (Taqleed) on themselves.
 
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such bolo

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
سب سے پہلے تو یہ فقیر صاحب کے مضمون کا کوی رد نہیں بلکہ شوشہ چھوڑنے والا سوال ہے جسکی ساخت سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ شرارت کرنے کے لیے چھوڑا گیا ہے ۔ لیکن پھر بھی میں آپکو جواب دے دیتا ہوں ، امام ابو حنیفہؒ کے والد اگر خود مجتہد نہیں تھے تو اپنے علاقے کے کسی مجتہد کے مقلد تھے ۔ امید ہے آپ کی تسلی ہو گئی ہو گی ۔

ایک سوال آپ نے کیا تھا ایک ہم کرتے ہیں جس جاہل شخص کو اردو بھی پڑھنی نہیں آتی وہ قرآن اور حدیث پر بغیر کسی مجتہد کے کیسے عمل کرے گا ؟؟؟


بسم اللہ الرحمٰن الرحیم

آپ نے بڑی آسانی سے میرے سوال کو ٹال دیا...بھائی یہ بات تو بعد میں آئیگی کے آیا آپ امام ابو حنیفہ رحمہ اللہ کی انکے سارے مسائل میں تقلید کرتے ہیں یا نہیں، یا یہ صرف دھوکہ ہے جو علما لوگوں کو دیتے ہیں...امام کے والد صاحب کے بارے میں آپ نے کہدیا کسی مجتہد کے مقلد ہونگے...یعنی آپکے پاس ایسا کوئی ریکارڈ موجود نہیں جس سے انکے اس خاص مجتہد کا نام معلوم ہوسکے جس کے نام سے وہ خود کو منسوب کرتے تھے؟؟ یعنی منصوری یا خالدی یا سفیانی وغیرہ؟؟؟؟

دراصل میرا مقصد یہ ثابت کرنا ہے کے اپنے آپ کو کسی خاص فقہ سے منسوب کرنے کی بدعت (تقلید شخصی کی حیثیت ) سے بعد میں رواج ہوئی...اور بقول شاہ ولی اللہ رحمہ اللہ یہ چار سوسال بعد رائج ہوئی اس سے پہلے تقلید شخصی کا کوئی وجود نہ تھا

اب رہا آپ کا سوال تو بھائی آپ کو تقلید کی تعریف ہی نہیں معلوم، قول امام کو بلا دلیل تسلیم کرلینا تقلید ہے اگر تو کوئی ان پڑھ، عالم کے پاس جا کر قرآن اور حدیث کے مطابق مسلہ پوچھے اور اسے یہ یقین ہوجاے کے مسلہ بتانے والا قرآن اور حدیث کے مطابق مسلہ بتا رہا ہے تو یہ تقلید نہ ہوئی یہ تو اتباع ہوئی اللہ اور اسکے رسول کی اور یہی مطلوب ہے ہر مسلمان سے، اگر پڑھا لکھا ہے تو خود دلائل کو پڑھ لے بہت اچھا ہے اور مزید ان پر تحقیق کر لے تو اور بہتر ہے یہ ساری چیزیں اسکے یقین میں اضافے کا سبب بنیں گی، بشرطیکہ کے نیت اللہ کی نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کی اتباع ہو

کیا جو لوگ ان پڑھ ہیں وہی اپنے آپ کو حنفی مالکی وغیرہ کہتے ہیں ؟؟؟ نہیں ایسا ہر گز نہیں... وہ علما جو مدارس میں پڑھتے ہیں پڑھاتے ہیں کتابیں لکھتے ہیں ..جن کے بڑے بڑے نام ہیں، شیخ الحدیث ہیں، وہ بھی تو مقلد ہیں اور اپنے آپ کو بڑے فخر سے حنفی وغیرہ کہتے ہیں....انکے بارے میں کیا کہیگا؟؟؟ بات ظاہر ہے کے مسلہ ان پڑھ ہونے کا نہیں بلکے مسلہ ہے کے کسی خاص امام سے تعصب برتنے کا یا اس امام کو دوسرے امام سے برتر اور کامل سمجھنے کا اور دوسرے معنوں میں اس امام کو معصوم ماننے کا یعنی نبی کے درجے تک پونھچانے کا ہے!!!ھ

ہمارے نزدیک معصوم صرف اور صرف اللہ کے نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کی ذات ہے، اس دنیا میں ہر ایک کی راے قبول بھی کی جا سکتی ہے اور رد بھی...صرف اللہ کے نبی کی ذات ایسے ہے جن کی بات رد نہیں کی جا سکتی

 
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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Certainly you and your like minded bunch here are not an authority on Taqlid either onlykami...The references that I have given you are from AUTHENTIC AHLE SUNNAH WAL JAMAAH scholars ..by you simply verbally negating them doesnt prove anything. Come and bring forth references from the Quran and Sunnah which prove what is Taqlid according to your definition

You come up here and you cry the biggest foul about u not being able to locate hadiths because YOU Ahave probably never even touched a book on Hadith ...So how will you be able to find one ?..IS this my fault ? :)

Look my friend IGNORANCE is not BLISS !...If you cant find it GO AND ASK an AHLE SUNNAH wal JAMAH Scholar and he will show it to you ! - Simple.

But the problem with people like you is "YOU EXPECT EVERYTHING TO BE PROVEN TO YOU" - NO - You have to rise to the LEVEL..it is YOU who cant find it ..I have provided the references using which everyone else including the scholars can find it ..That simply means u need an education !

Now instead of posting these half printed pages with no reference to the books to prove your lost cause - COME BACK WITH SOLID PROOFS AFTER YOU HAVE STUDIED AND CONSULTED A REAL AHLE SUNNAH WAL JAMAH SCHOLAR AND SEEN THE HADITHS iVE MENTIONED - Thats your Homework for today !

Here are some steps for you to follow :-

0. Before you leave do Wudu :)
1. Goto mommy and ask for some Money (printed paper which has value)
2. Take a Bus to the local Ahle Sunnah Mosque
3. Talk to the Imam about learning ISLAM :)
4. Ask him to show you a reference to the Hadith i mentioned (maybe take a printout)
5. Read and repent for all the Mischief you have caused till now
6. Be good boy !
7. Have a lollypop on me ;) !

hahaha

Salam !


سب سے پہلے تو یہ فقیر صاحب کے مضمون کا کوی رد نہیں بلکہ شوشہ چھوڑنے والا سوال ہے جسکی ساخت سے پتا چلتا ہے کہ شرارت کرنے کے لیے چھوڑا گیا ہے ۔ لیکن پھر بھی میں آپکو جواب دے دیتا ہوں ، امام ابو حنیفہؒ کے والد اگر خود مجتہد نہیں تھے تو اپنے علاقے کے کسی مجتہد کے مقلد تھے ۔ امید ہے آپ کی تسلی ہو گئی ہو گی ۔

ایک سوال آپ نے کیا تھا ایک ہم کرتے ہیں جس جاہل شخص کو اردو بھی پڑھنی نہیں آتی وہ قرآن اور حدیث پر بغیر کسی مجتہد کے کیسے عمل کرے گا ؟؟؟
 
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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
:) Pehlay to yaar is bunday ko koi CHASHMA la kerday ...Is article mein menay KAHAN HADITH mention ki hai ?? (bigsmile)... Yaar ager ainak ka number kheraab hojaye na to eye doctor ko dikhana chahiyay ..Mager yeh kami jesay logon ka maqsad Ilm hasil kerna nahi ..sherarat create kerna hai !

Yaar aik dafa ager article ko perhliya hota na ..to kum say kum is zalalat say buch jaatay !


What you cant even find verses in the QURAN NOW ?...How illiterate are you ?? :D

"If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
[Sura 4, verse 83]

Is this verse really so difficult to find ?

I do offer come classes in "Elementary reading" ..You can sign up by sending me a private message !
(bigsmile)


Yeh modern fakir k pesh ki gai ahadeeth per koi aetabar nahi, maine modern fakir bhai say kai dafa kaha hai k jo hadeeth pesh karain us ka hawala thik say dya karain takay hum follow kar sakain, jo hawalay aaj tk dya hai modern fakir nay mjhay tu aaj tk nahi milay
 
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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Pakistan1947 ...I must congratulate you on sounding like a nagging wife (bigsmile)... As far as Yusuf Ali's Tafseer goes then thats fine ...But all the other rubbish underneath it "This verse has nothing to do with Taqlid... " ?. Do you have a reference for this ?

Or is this Quranic Commentary according to Pakistan1947
:).. Do you have anything known as SHAME left in you Man.


Your selective saber rattling is not going to do any good Man - Remember Falsehood is BOUND to PERISH !

Here Read this quranic commentary explanation from Renowned scholars and which includes the reference to the tafseer from Hazrat Ibn Abbas (RA)

The concept of Taqleed in the Quran


Both classifications of Taqleed, in the form mentioned above, are found in the
Quran. The following verses of the Quran demonstrates this:

Verse Number 1:
"O you who believe! Follow Allah; follow the Messenger and those of
authority (Amr) amongst you." (Surah Al-Nisaa: 59)


That of authority (Amr) has been explained by some as Muslim rulers while others have
viewed them as jurists. The latter view was the opinion of Abdullah ibn Abbas (Reference 6),

So now Pakistan1947 ..Do you know more about Quranic Commentary than Hazrat Ibn ABBAS (RA) ?

Mujahid, `Ataa ibn Abi Rabah, `Ataa ibn Saib, Hasan of Basra, Abu 'Aliyah and many

others. After substantiating the proofs for this second view, Imam Razi gives preference
to it and writes:


"So taking those of Amr to mean scholars is more appropriate." 7


Imam Abu Bakr Jassas position is that there is no contradiction between the two
opinions. In fact, both are implied. Rulers should be followed in political matters and
jurists should be followed in legal issues. 8


Imam Ibn Qayyim says that following the rulers is in effect following the scholars since
rulers are also required to follow scholars in legal issues. Hence, "...following rulers is
subject to following scholars." 9

Reference List


6 This explanation of Abdullah ibn Abbas has been narrated from Mu'awiyah ibn Salah from Ali ibn
Talha which is regarded as a very sound chain (Ibn Jarir Vol. 5 Page 88 c.f. Al-Itqaan: Number 80)
7 Tafseer Kabir: Vol 3, page 334
8 Ahkaamul Qura'n, by Jassas. Vol.2, page 256 http://www.central-mosque.com/ Page 12 of 80
9 'Ilaamul Muqi'een, by Ibn Qayyim. Vol.1, page 7

-----------------------------------------------

So you see Pakistan1947 people and the likeminded bunch that you have ..dont have the essence of true scholarship as you are self educated hicks ..who have never studied under a proper sheikh. Some of you cannot even locate hadiths in a book let alone being able to produce any legible ( i wont even use the word credible, because that would be an insult to the word when applied to you people, but you can cry the world here and no one gives a DAMN (bigsmile)


Following is the complete translation of the verses of Quraan you are using in support of Taqleed:
وَإِذَا جَاءَهُمْ أَمْرٌ مِّنَ الْأَمْنِ أَوِ الْخَوْفِ أَذَاعُوا بِهِ ۖ وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَىٰ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ ۗ وَلَوْلَا فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَاتَّبَعْتُمُ الشَّيْطَانَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا
Yusuf Ali 83: When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them (direct). Were it not for the Grace and Mercy of Allah unto you, all but a few of you would have fallen into the clutches of Satan. (Quraan 4:83)
اور جب ان کے پاس کوئی خبر امن یا ڈر کی پہنچتی ہے تو اسے مشہور کر دیتے ہیں اور اگر اسے رسول او راپنی جماعت کے ذمہ دار اصحاب تک پہنچاتے تو اس کی تحقیق کرتے جو ان میں تحقیق کرنے والے ہیں اوراگر تم پر الله کا فضل اوراس کی مہربانی نہ ہوتی تو البتہ تم شیطان کے پیچھے ہو لیتے سوائے چند لوگوں کے

The above verse has nothing to do with Taqleed. It is related to rumors spread by enemies to harm Muslim during the time of wars. During the period of excitement, rumors were on the air from many quarters. Sometimes baseless and exaggerated reports were received that caused alarm in Madinah and its outskirts. Then some cunning enemy would send news that all was quiet in the enemy camp, merely to conceal some impending danger and to keep the Muslims off their guard. Only those people who loved excitement, took keen interest in such rumors; who did not take the conflict between Islam and un-Islam to be a serious matter; and who did not realize the grave consequences of indulging in such baseless rumors. Whenever they heard any rumor, they would spread it from place to place, without considering the great harm their pastime was causing. In this verse, such people have been warned of the gravity of their offense and strictly admonished to refrain from spreading rumors. They have been told to report any news they heard to the responsible people and then keep silent about it.

Modern fakir, please have some "Khauf-e-Khuda" (خوف خدا) while posting anything to do with religion. Your post may be viewed by thousand of members and if you write something against the Islamic believes you may be answerable on the day of Judgment in front of Allah. These Peers you blind follow will not be able to save you on the day of judgment. Being ignorant of any religious matter is different than being arrogant after truth (Haq) is clearly delivered to you. If someone tells you with the reference of Quraan and authentic Hadeeths about any religious matter which is against the understanding of your Peer /imam then you must investigate and follow the decision based on Quraan and authentic Hadeeths and reject the saying of your Peer / Imam. This is what said by all four Imam that if you find anything in them which is against the Quraan and authentic Hadeeths then reject their saying and follow Quraan and authentic Hadeeths. Point to be noted that non of the four Imam imposed blind following (Taqleed) on themselves.
 
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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
This rubbish you have written up here has no basis in ANY QURAN or SUNNAH so please refrain from posting your own religious ideology here !... We are only Discussing Islam Here ....take this to "the other religion page" ....thank you (bigsmile)


TAQLEED is a system promoted by imperial mullahs to make muslims ignorant about their deen so that then people could be taken away from deen and used and abused by their kings and rulers.

Why would Allah send so many prophets telling each person to use his own sense and not listen others unless they talk with proof in line with divine revelation.

By taqleed you are willingly becoming slaves of mullahs and rulers. Be a grown up person, don't be a baby mind.

It is lack of thought process about the quran that today many muslims are grave worshippers rather than leading others alright.

The very lack of knowledge about islam in muslims demands that taqleed should be thrown in dustbin of history where it belongs.

Don't deceive yourselves by thinking you are doing any service to islam by following others like sheep.

The quran tells us story of mullahs of bani israel and condemns them, why? Because people left the message of Allah and started listening to their mullahs. Islam has no place for personality cults.

Why no prophet encouraged taqleed in the stories of the quran? They lacked resources more than us so they had more right to taqleed ie there was no printing press.

Today we almost all have direct access to the divine message, so why do we need to listen to others till we learn how to judge whether they are leading us or misleading us?

Individual free thought on quran and islam is totally gone from islamic world thanks to mullahs who push for taqleed and the like that spreads ignorance amongst muslims.

My advice please discourage taqleed at each and every opportunity if you want to see islam make a come back. Think yourself and encopurage others to do the same to break out of this evil trap. Go to molvies and question them to encourage thought process in them as well.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Further Explanation on Surah Nisa - Verse 83

"And when there comes to them a matter concerning (public) safety or fear, they
relay it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority
(Amr), those who can investigate and extract (information) among them would know
(the rumor's validity)...." (Surah Al-Nisaa: 83)


The background to this verse is that the hypocrites of Madinah would spread
rumors regarding war and peace. Simple-minded Muslims would believe these rumors
and exacerbate the situation, creating an atmosphere of insecurity and panic in the city.
The verse quoted above prevented Muslims from taking this approach and advised them
to refer news of war and peace to those of Amr and not to spread rumors. Thus, capable
individuals investigating the rumors would be able to reach the truth of the issue and
inform others concerned. The role of the lay person was not to take any action except to
refer such rumors and reports to those of Amr.


Although this verse was revealed for a specific reason - it is very well established
in the principles of Tafseer and jurisprudence that in extracting rules and laws from
specific circumstances of revelation, the specific details gives way to the general meaning
of the text - such a general principle is contained in the verse quoted above. The principle
is that: Those who do not possess the tools of investigation should refer to those who
can. This is precisely Taqleed.


Imam Razi writes concerning this verse:
"So it is established that Istinbaat [the legal process of extracting rules from the
Quran and Sunnah] is a proof. Analogy is either Istinbaat in itself or is included
in it. So analogy (Qiyas) should also be a proof. This verse denotes several rules.
The first is that there are some incidents and issues, which are not apparent from
(Divine) text. The second is that Istinbaat is a proof. The third is that a lay person
should follow scholars in the rules of events and in issues" (12)


Certain people have objected to this line of reasoning claiming that this verse is
peculiar to the state of war and should not be analogous to a state of peace.(13)

A response has already been furnished previously to this question that specific circumstances of the

verse extend to the general principles of the verse. Imam Razi writes:



"Allah's statement: `And when there comes to them a matter....' Includes all affairs
relating to war and to any other incident relating to Islamic Law. This is because the
states of war and peace include very legal command. Hence there is nothing in the verse
which restricts the command to the state of war only." (14)


Imam Abu Bakr Jassas has also given a similar detailed answer to this question, he has
also refuted many doubts which relate to this question.(15)

This is the reason why the famous scholar of the Ahle Hadith, Nawwab Siddiq has allowed Qiyas (analogy) giving

his reasoning based on this verse:

"There is a hint in this verse to the permissibility of Qiyas and that there are some issues
of knowledge which can be perceived by intellectual deduction." (16)


If there is no guidance in the verse regarding the state of peace, how would substantiating
Qiyas from the verse be permissible ?



12 Tafseer Kabir - vol. 3, page 272

13 Tahreeke Azadi Fikr, by Maulana Muhammed Ismail Salfi - page 31
14 Tafseer Kabir - vol. 3, page 273
15 Ahkamul Qura'n, by Jassas - vol. 2 page 63
16 Tafseer of Fathul Bayan, by Nawwab Siddiq vol. 2, page 33
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
You are very happy to comment this but i am talking about your old post and i atleast everytime ask you about this thats why i write this that i cant believe you now

:) Pehlay to yaar is bunday ko koi CHASHMA la kerday ...Is article mein menay KAHAN HADITH mention ki hai ?? (bigsmile)... Yaar ager ainak ka number kheraab hojaye na to eye doctor ko dikhana chahiyay ..Mager yeh kami jesay logon ka maqsad Ilm hasil kerna nahi ..sherarat create kerna hai !

Yaar aik dafa ager article ko perhliya hota na ..to kum say kum is zalalat say buch jaatay !


What you cant even find verses in the QURAN NOW ?...How illiterate are you ?? :D

"If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"
[Sura 4, verse 83]

Is this verse really so difficult to find ?

I do offer come classes in "Elementary reading" ..You can sign up by sending me a private message !
(bigsmile)
 

onlykami

MPA (400+ posts)
I simply say open your some last posts and read your references you even cant locate them, your references are like " sahih muslim vol1 page 345 " is that what you say reference????? and also try to behave we are here to learn no to defend some ideology if you have some guts then come up with quran and sahih ahadeeth with references so that we follow dont write fake references like you did before ...............



Certainly you and your like minded bunch here are not an authority on Taqlid either onlykami...The references that I have given you are from AUTHENTIC AHLE SUNNAH WAL JAMAAH scholars ..by you simply verbally negating them doesnt prove anything. Come and bring forth references from the Quran and Sunnah which prove what is Taqlid according to your definition

You come up here and you cry the biggest foul about u not being able to locate hadiths because YOU Ahave probably never even touched a book on Hadith ...So how will you be able to find one ?..IS this my fault ? :)

Look my friend IGNORANCE is not BLISS !...If you cant find it GO AND ASK an AHLE SUNNAH wal JAMAH Scholar and he will show it to you ! - Simple.

But the problem with people like you is "YOU EXPECT EVERYTHING TO BE PROVEN TO YOU" - NO - You have to rise to the LEVEL..it is YOU who cant find it ..I have provided the references using which everyone else including the scholars can find it ..That simply means u need an education !

Now instead of posting these half printed pages with no reference to the books to prove your lost cause - COME BACK WITH SOLID PROOFS AFTER YOU HAVE STUDIED AND CONSULTED A REAL AHLE SUNNAH WAL JAMAH SCHOLAR AND SEEN THE HADITHS iVE MENTIONED - Thats your Homework for today !

Here are some steps for you to follow :-

0. Before you leave do Wudu :)
1. Goto mommy and ask for some Money (printed paper which has value)
2. Take a Bus to the local Ahle Sunnah Mosque
3. Talk to the Imam about learning ISLAM :)
4. Ask him to show you a reference to the Hadith i mentioned (maybe take a printout)
5. Read and repent for all the Mischief you have caused till now
6. Be good boy !
7. Have a lollypop on me ;) !

hahaha

Salam !
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This rubbish you have written up here has no basis in ANY QURAN or SUNNAH so please refrain from posting your own religious ideology here !... We are only Discussing Islam Here ....take this to "the other religion page" ....thank you (bigsmile)

Dear fakir, there is a lot of info about your islam on the internet but I do not like getting into that side of things. Following is just a sample with apologies of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZVKWJKGSbU&feature=related

You can do that yourself when you have time.

regards and all the best
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Does this make sense ? ..OK. First off, your not making sense to me !

Now if you are referring to my EARLIER posts then I HAVE PROVIDED references .. BUT your not EDUCATED enough to LOCATE those references !

So go and get some classes on how to locate and validate hadiths ..You see reading and extracting Hadith is an ACTUAL SCIENCE ..its not a dog and pony show which a lay man can interpret !

You understand ?...

Oh and by the way ...if you dont trust what i say ..then i could care less ..Since your opinion doesnt Count ! ..Your basically a NOBODY !



You are very happy to comment this but i am talking about your old post and i atleast everytime ask you about this thats why i write this that i cant believe you now
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Dude !.... I seriously think you need some English Classes !!!

I said if you cant locate the Hadith based on the references i provide then thats NOT MY PROBLEM. ..! .. if you are incompetent why am i to pick up ur slack.. ???

Go get an education in reading and locating hadith..Their are several proper places in Pakistan and all over the world and they will teach you all about HADITH and how to find those references

I dont have time for people like you ...who come up here to stir mischief !
:)

I simply say open your some last posts and read your references you even cant locate them, your references are like " sahih muslim vol1 page 345 " is that what you say reference????? and also try to behave we are here to learn no to defend some ideology if you have some guts then come up with quran and sahih ahadeeth with references so that we follow dont write fake references like you did before ...............
 
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