What is shirk (شرک کیا ہے) ??
- Thread starter Pakistani1947
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Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Prostrating Allah's creature is SHIRK
Dear Brother Abdul Allah,
[FONT="]Quraan 41:37 Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. [/FONT]
This verse explains that in Islam, the prostration is the right of the Creator only and therefore, we should not prostrate to any creature, be it the moon, the sun, a Prophet, a saint, a jinn or any angel. If someone maintains that making a prostration to a creature was permissible in the earlier religions, for instance, the angels prostrated to Adam {Peace be upon Him** and Prophet Yaqub {Peace be upon Him** prostrated to Prophet Yusuf {Peace be upon Him** and hence there is no harm if we make a prostration to a saint as a token of showing our respect to him. We must remember that such a thing proves and confirms one's SHIRK and thoroughly deprives him of Faith. According to the laws which were prevalent during the period of Adam {Peace be upon Him**, it was permissible to marry one's sisters. Presenting this fact as an evidence, what is the harm if these people marry their sisters. But harm does certainly lie there, because the incestuous relationship with one's sisters is a matter which is forbidden forever and is not permissible under any circumstances.
The crux of the matter is that a human being must comply with the instructions of Allah. Any Divine injunction should be acknowledged and acted upon without reluctance and without engaging oneself in a controversial argumentation by employing phony excuses like saying: "It was not ordained to the earlier people, why the same has been forced down our necks?" This type of argumentation leads one into being a disbeliever. To elaborate it further, let us presume that a certain statute was put into effect by a king which was being observed for a long time. Now the legislators replaced it with another law by abrogating the former one, and therefore, it is now necessary to enact this new law and to abide by it. If someone insists that he will only recognize the old law and not the new one, such a person shall be deemed a rebel and a rebel is punishable with imprisonment. Similarly, Hell-fire is the punishment for the ones who rebel against Allah's authority.
Dear Brother Abdul Allah,
[FONT="]وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ ۚ لَا تَسْجُدُوا لِلشَّمْسِ وَلَا لِلْقَمَرِ وَاسْجُدُوا لِلَّهِ الَّذِي خَلَقَهُنَّ إِن كُنتُمْ إِيَّاهُ تَعْبُدُونَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اور اس کی نشانیوں میں سے رات اور دن اور سورج اور چاند ہیں سورج کو سجدہ نہ کرو اور نہ چاند کو اور اس الله کو سجدہ کرو جس نے انہیں پیدا کیا ہے اگر تم اسی کی عبادت کرتے ہو[/FONT]
This verse explains that in Islam, the prostration is the right of the Creator only and therefore, we should not prostrate to any creature, be it the moon, the sun, a Prophet, a saint, a jinn or any angel. If someone maintains that making a prostration to a creature was permissible in the earlier religions, for instance, the angels prostrated to Adam {Peace be upon Him** and Prophet Yaqub {Peace be upon Him** prostrated to Prophet Yusuf {Peace be upon Him** and hence there is no harm if we make a prostration to a saint as a token of showing our respect to him. We must remember that such a thing proves and confirms one's SHIRK and thoroughly deprives him of Faith. According to the laws which were prevalent during the period of Adam {Peace be upon Him**, it was permissible to marry one's sisters. Presenting this fact as an evidence, what is the harm if these people marry their sisters. But harm does certainly lie there, because the incestuous relationship with one's sisters is a matter which is forbidden forever and is not permissible under any circumstances.
The crux of the matter is that a human being must comply with the instructions of Allah. Any Divine injunction should be acknowledged and acted upon without reluctance and without engaging oneself in a controversial argumentation by employing phony excuses like saying: "It was not ordained to the earlier people, why the same has been forced down our necks?" This type of argumentation leads one into being a disbeliever. To elaborate it further, let us presume that a certain statute was put into effect by a king which was being observed for a long time. Now the legislators replaced it with another law by abrogating the former one, and therefore, it is now necessary to enact this new law and to abide by it. If someone insists that he will only recognize the old law and not the new one, such a person shall be deemed a rebel and a rebel is punishable with imprisonment. Similarly, Hell-fire is the punishment for the ones who rebel against Allah's authority.
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6sman
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Salam,
How long will it take Muslims to reach an agreement on this issue? I mean you don't have to be rocket scientist to discern between Tawhid and Shirk when all of us read and believe in the same Qur'an. It cannot be that hard to figure out that invoking deceased entities is almost as bad as entreaty towards lifeless idols, unless one erroneously considers idolaters (idol-worshipers) sheer idiots, which obviously they are not.
The problem is not whether the preceding texts have ambiguity or contain contranyms, the core difficulties we face actually lie within us; we don't have right attitude when embarking on the search for truth, even though we might think or claim innocence. Agree or not agree, the fact is majority of us, when indulging in such contentions, aim primarily to 'defeat' the 'opponent', as is evident from all molvi munazharas you watch and the language used in discussions as our's. Hardly ever do we really seek rectification (islah) and sincerely hope of guiding our brother. At times we're affectatious seeking self-promotion and just wanna showoff the 'knowledge' we have. If anyone be tainted with such behavior then it's actually better to abstain from religious talk. The day we change our attitudes will be the day majority of our disputes will end. Get your intentions (niyat) aright in seeking purely Allaah's blessed Countenance in discussion, when this happens, no dispute is in-solvable.
If you read the first post and not get lost in what follows (as I almost got), it contains some oft-repeated loquacious notes (qawwali lyrics) famous among a large portion of people. What these notes portray is the legality of invoking for aid (making dua) to individuals already passed away. Parallel are responses from the Qur'an for all to see which in my opinion are clearly not misinterpretations or plucking isolated texts as someone alleged.
I have a concise and beneficial couple of papers that I intended to share dealing with this very issue, the reason I couldn't was fear of deletion (removal). But now seeing our moderators are are more open to allow contentious religious dialogue, insha'Allaah I'll post it soon, but not in this thread since it deserves separate posting.
How long will it take Muslims to reach an agreement on this issue? I mean you don't have to be rocket scientist to discern between Tawhid and Shirk when all of us read and believe in the same Qur'an. It cannot be that hard to figure out that invoking deceased entities is almost as bad as entreaty towards lifeless idols, unless one erroneously considers idolaters (idol-worshipers) sheer idiots, which obviously they are not.
The problem is not whether the preceding texts have ambiguity or contain contranyms, the core difficulties we face actually lie within us; we don't have right attitude when embarking on the search for truth, even though we might think or claim innocence. Agree or not agree, the fact is majority of us, when indulging in such contentions, aim primarily to 'defeat' the 'opponent', as is evident from all molvi munazharas you watch and the language used in discussions as our's. Hardly ever do we really seek rectification (islah) and sincerely hope of guiding our brother. At times we're affectatious seeking self-promotion and just wanna showoff the 'knowledge' we have. If anyone be tainted with such behavior then it's actually better to abstain from religious talk. The day we change our attitudes will be the day majority of our disputes will end. Get your intentions (niyat) aright in seeking purely Allaah's blessed Countenance in discussion, when this happens, no dispute is in-solvable.
If you read the first post and not get lost in what follows (as I almost got), it contains some oft-repeated loquacious notes (qawwali lyrics) famous among a large portion of people. What these notes portray is the legality of invoking for aid (making dua) to individuals already passed away. Parallel are responses from the Qur'an for all to see which in my opinion are clearly not misinterpretations or plucking isolated texts as someone alleged.
I have a concise and beneficial couple of papers that I intended to share dealing with this very issue, the reason I couldn't was fear of deletion (removal). But now seeing our moderators are are more open to allow contentious religious dialogue, insha'Allaah I'll post it soon, but not in this thread since it deserves separate posting.
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
To understand the meaning of Verse#55 of Sura Al-Maeda we need to read this verses 51-57 of this Sura. In these verses, in view of the degenerate moral condition of the Jews and the Christians, the Believers have been warned not to make them their friends and confidants. Likewise they should be on their guard against the evil designs of the hypocrites, the disbelievers and the like and should rely on the true Believers alone. The people of the Book have, in their turn been exhorted to give up their enmity and adopt the right attitude, for they cannot get salvation without this.
Read the following verses in continuity, it would be very unfair if someone draw conclusion from these verses that it is allowed to do SHIRKIA acts around the grave of a saint such as Prostration to the grave, asking help from the grave etc.
[FONT="] يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَىٰ أَوْلِيَاءَ ۘ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اے ایمان والو یہود اور نصاریٰ کو دوست نہ بناؤ[/FONT][FONT="] وہ آپس میں ایک دوسرے کے دوست ہیں اور جو کوئی تم میں سے ان کے ساتھ دوستی کرے تو وہ ان میں سے ہے الله ظالموں کو ہدایت نہیں کرتا[/FONT]
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[FONT="]فَتَرَى الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ يُسَارِعُونَ فِيهِمْ يَقُولُونَ نَخْشَىٰ أَن تُصِيبَنَا دَائِرَةٌ ۚ فَعَسَى اللَّهُ أَن يَأْتِيَ بِالْفَتْحِ أَوْ أَمْرٍ مِّنْ عِندِهِ فَيُصْبِحُوا عَلَىٰ مَا أَسَرُّوا فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ نَادِمِينَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]پھر تو ان لوگوں کو دیکھے گا جن کے دلوں میں بیماری ہے ان میں دوڑ کر جا ملتے ہیں کہتے ہیں کہ ہمیں ڈر ہے کہ ہم پر زمانے کی گردش نہ آ جائے سو قریب ہے کہ الله جلدی فتح ظاہر فرماد ے یا کوئی اور حکم اپنے ہاں سے ظاہر کرے پھر یہ اپنے دل کی چھپی ہوئی بات پر شرمندہ ہوں گے
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[FONT="]وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَهَـٰؤُلَاءِ الَّذِينَ أَقْسَمُوا بِاللَّهِ جَهْدَ أَيْمَانِهِمْ ۙ إِنَّهُمْ لَمَعَكُمْ ۚ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فَأَصْبَحُوا خَاسِرِينَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اور مسلمان کہتے ہیں کیا یہ وہی لوگ ہیں جو الله کے نام کی پکی قسمیں کھاتے تھے کہ ہم تمہارے ساتھ ہیں ان کے اعمال برباد ہو گئے پھر وہ نقصان اٹھانے والے ہو گئے[/FONT]
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[FONT="]يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ ۚ ذَ*ٰلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اے ایمان والو جو کوئی تم میں سے اپنے دین سے پھر جائے گا تو عنقریب الله ایسی قوم کو لائے گا کہ الله ان کو چاہتا ہے اور وہ اس کو چاہتے ہیں مسلمانوں پر نرم دل ہوں گے اور کافروں پر زبردست الله کی راہ میں لڑیں گے اور کسی کی ملامت سے نہیں ڈریں گے یہ الله کا فضل ہے جسے چاہے دیتا ہے اور الله کشائش والا جاننے والا ہے
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[FONT="]إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]تمہارا دوست تو الله اور اس کا رسول اور ایمان دار لوگ ہیں جو نماز قائم کرتے ہیں اور زکواة دیتے ہیں اور وہ عاجزی کرنے والے ہیں
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[FONT="]وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اور جو شخص الله اور اس کے رسول اور ایمان داروں کو دوست رکھے تو الله کی جماعت وہی غالب ہونے والی ہے[/FONT]
[FONT="]يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَتَّخِذُوا الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا دِينَكُمْ هُزُوًا وَلَعِبًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ وَالْكُفَّارَ أَوْلِيَاءَ ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ[/FONT]
[FONT="]اے ایمان والو! ان لوگوں کو اپنا دوست نہ بناؤ جنہوں نے تمہارے دین کو ہنسی اور کھیل بنا رکھا ہے[/FONT][FONT="] ان لوگو ں میں سے جنہیں تم سے پہلے کتاب دی گئی اور کافروں کو اور الله سے ڈرو اگر تم ایمان دار ہو[/FONT]
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nasir ahmed
Voter (50+ posts)
i think some one set of the wahabi bandwagon I think everyone knows that. One question in namaz we read the durrod shrif the ibrahimi one if ibadat only for Allah then why do we read it explain.
nasir ahmed
Voter (50+ posts)
in the quran it is stated the believers have many helpers the surah are followed by the verses:
[FONT="]4:75
66:4
3:52
5:55
8:64
5:2 .
26:89
26:100
17:80 .
2:87 .
18:95
And the quran states that the [/FONT][FONT="]righteous can help others even after their death.
[/FONT][FONT="]3:81
21:107
34:28
2:89
[/FONT][FONT="]The Sinners gain blessings due to the Pious
18:82
52:21
4:69
The pious are [/FONT]Intermediaries in the court of Allah (swt). For example taking medicine is shirk cus only Allah (swt) is the one to heal but we take it has intermedate matter but the cure is from Allah (swt)
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Also the intercission of the muslims by the prophet(saw) for the ummah is asking the prophet to intercede for us in the court of Allah (swt).
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[FONT="]4:75
66:4
3:52
5:55
8:64
5:2 .
26:89
26:100
17:80 .
2:87 .
18:95
And the quran states that the [/FONT][FONT="]righteous can help others even after their death.
[/FONT][FONT="]3:81
21:107
34:28
2:89
[/FONT][FONT="]The Sinners gain blessings due to the Pious
18:82
52:21
4:69
The pious are [/FONT]Intermediaries in the court of Allah (swt). For example taking medicine is shirk cus only Allah (swt) is the one to heal but we take it has intermedate matter but the cure is from Allah (swt)
[FONT="]
Also the intercission of the muslims by the prophet(saw) for the ummah is asking the prophet to intercede for us in the court of Allah (swt).
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QaiserMirza
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
??? ????? ???????? ???? ??????????? ??????? ????????? ??????????? ?????????????? ????? ???????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ????????????? ????? ???????? ????????????? ????????? ??????? ???????? ???????????? 79??
??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??
????? ???????????? ???? ??????????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ?????????? ? ?????????????? ??????????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????????????
80??????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?
?Al-Imraan Ayah 79-80
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
This is a very important Surah in which light has been thrown on some questions of grave significance with reference to some incidents concerning the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace). If would be very unfair if somebody conclude from this Surah that the angels and the saints inside the graves can help them. Read following verses in continuity and Insha-Allah you will understand the meaning.
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ ۖ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
اے نبی آپ کیوں حرام کرتے ہیں جو الله نے آپ کے لیے حلال کیا ہے آپ اپنی بیویوں کی خوشنودی چاہتے ہیں اور الله بخشنے والا نہایت رحم والا ہے
قَدْ فَرَضَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ تَحِلَّةَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ ۚ وَاللَّهُ مَوْلَاكُمْ ۖ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ
الله نے تمہارے لیے اپنی قسموں کا توڑ دینا فرض کر دیا ہے اور الله ہی تمہارا مالک ہے اوروہی سب کا جاننے والا حکمت والا ہے
وَإِذْ أَسَرَّ النَّبِيُّ إِلَىٰ بَعْضِ أَزْوَاجِهِ حَدِيثًا فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَتْ بِهِ وَأَظْهَرَهُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ عَرَّفَ بَعْضَهُ وَأَعْرَضَ عَن بَعْضٍ ۖ فَلَمَّا نَبَّأَهَا بِهِ قَالَتْ مَنْ أَنبَأَكَ هَـٰذَا ۖ قَالَ نَبَّأَنِيَ الْعَلِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ
اور جب نبی نے چھپا کر اپنی کسی بیوی سے ایک بات کہہ دی اور پھر جب اس بیوی نے وہ بات بتا دی اور الله نے اس کو نبی پر ظاہر کر دیا تو نبی نے اس میں سے کچھ بات جتلا دی اور کچھ ٹال دی پس جب پیغمبر نے اس کو وہ بات جتلا دی تو بولی آپ کو کس نے یہ بات بتا دی آپ نے فرمایا مجھے خدائے علیم و خبیر نے یہ بات بتلائی
إِن تَتُوبَا إِلَى اللَّهِ فَقَدْ صَغَتْ قُلُوبُكُمَا ۖ وَإِن تَظَاهَرَا عَلَيْهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ مَوْلَاهُ وَجِبْرِيلُ وَصَالِحُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ بَعْدَ ذَ*ٰلِكَ ظَهِيرٌ
اگر تم دونوں الله کی جناب میں توبہ کرو تو (بہتر) ورنہ تمہارے دل تو مائل ہو ہی چکے ہیں اوراگر تم آپ کے خلاف ایک دوسرے کی مدد کرو گی تو بے شک الله آپ کا مددگار ہے اور جبرائیل اور نیک بخت ایمان والے بھی اور سب فرشتے اس کے بعد آپ کے حامی ہیں
Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet used to stay (for a period) in the house of Zainab bint Jahsh (one of the wives of the Prophet ) and he used to drink honey in her house. Hafsa and I decided that when the Prophet entered upon either of us, she would say, "I smell in you the bad smell of Maghafir (a bad smelling raisin). Have you eaten Maghafir?" When he entered upon one of us, she said that to him. He replied (to her), "No, but I have drunk honey in the house of Zainab bint Jahsh, and I will never drink it again." Then the following verse was revealed: 'O Prophet ! Why do you ban (for you) that which Allah has made lawful for you?. ..(up to) If you two (wives of the Prophet turn in repentance to Allah.' (66.1-4) The two were 'Aisha and Hafsa And also the Statement of Allah: 'And (Remember) when the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives!' (66.3) i.e., his saying, "But I have drunk honey." Hisham said: It also meant his saying, "I will not drink anymore, and I have taken an oath, so do not inform anybody of that ' (Sahih Bukhari Book #78, Hadith #682)
In this Surah it is mentioned that the powers to prescribe the bounds of the lawful and the unlawful, the permissible and the forbidden, are entirely and absolutely in the hand of Allah and nothing has been delegated even to the Prophet of Allah himself, not to speak of any other man. The Prophet as such can declare something lawful or unlawful only if he receives an inspiration from Allah to do so whether that inspiration is embodied in the Qur'an, or imparted to, him secretly. However, even the Prophet is not authorized to declare anything made permissible by Allah unlawful by himself, much less to say of another man.
Another point we learn from this discourse is that about the Holy Messenger himself, whose reverence and respect Allah Himself has enjoined as a necessary part of the Faith of His servants, it has been stated in this Surah that once during his sacred life he made a thing declared lawful by Allah unlawful for himself only to please his wives; then Allah has severely reproved for their errors those very wives of the Holy Prophet, whom He Himself has declared as mothers of the faithful and worthy of the highest esteem and honor by them.
Respect of the Prophet has not been enjoined because he is infallible, but because he is a perfect representative of Divine Will, and Allah has not permitted any of his errors to pass by unnoticed. This gives us the satisfaction that the noble pattern of life left by the Prophet wholly and fully represents the will of Allah. Likewise, the Companions of the holy wives of the Prophet, were human, not angels or super men. They could commit mistakes. Whatever ranks they achieved became possible only because the guidance given by Allah and the training imparted by Allah's Messenger had moulded them into the finest models. Whatever esteem and reverence they deserve is on this very basis and not on the presumption that they were infallible. For this reason, whenever in the sacred lifetime of the Prophet (upon him be peace) the Companions or holy wives happened to commit an error due to human weakness, they were checked. Some of their errors were corrected by the Holy Prophet, as has been mentioned at many places in the Hadith; some other errors were mentioned in the Qur'an and Allah Himself corrected them so that the Muslims might not form any exaggerated notion of the respect and reverence of their elders and great men, which might raise them from humanity to the position of gods and goddesses.
All these instances are found in the Qur'an itself, in the same Qur'an in which Allah Himself has paid tribute to the Companions and the holy wives for their great merits, and granted them the certificate of His good pleasure, saying: "Allah became well pleased with them and they with Allah."
Besides, another truth that we learn from this Surah is that the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) did not receive from Allah only that knowledge which is included and recorded in the Qur'an, but he was given information about other things also by revelation, which has not been recorded in the Qur'an. This refutes the claim of the deniers of Hadith, who allege that nothing was sent down to the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) apart from the Qur'an.
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Poor wahabis have no answer and are rejecting Quran and Hadees. Very bad
None of you have told anything about the Quran Ayats in which intercession clearly found. Have you closed your eyes or it that your hearts closed. The truth is mentioned in Quran while you deny it. It is clear that except whom Allah wills. If the Last Messenger peace be upon Him not the exception then no one is exception and then do you tell that these Ayats are waste Nauzobillah.
Any man know meaning of intercession
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great [2:255]
Notice the word "except" in the above mentioned verse. This verse does not condemn the presence of an intercessor; they just put a condition for the fact of intercession.
That Day, no intercession will benefit except one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word [20:109]
And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand [34:23]
And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except after Allah has permitted to whom He wills and approves [53:26]
He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him with whom He is pleased. And they stand in awe for fear of Him [21:28]
And those whom they invoke instead of Him have no power of intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth and they know [43:86]
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful [4:64]
Any man know meaning of intercession
Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great [2:255]
Notice the word "except" in the above mentioned verse. This verse does not condemn the presence of an intercessor; they just put a condition for the fact of intercession.
That Day, no intercession will benefit except one to whom the Most Merciful has given permission and has accepted his word [20:109]
And intercession does not benefit with Him except for one whom He permits. [And those wait] until, when terror is removed from their hearts, they will say [to one another], "What has your Lord said?" They will say, "The truth." And He is the Most High, the Grand [34:23]
And how many angels there are in the heavens whose intercession will not avail at all except after Allah has permitted to whom He wills and approves [53:26]
He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they cannot intercede except for him with whom He is pleased. And they stand in awe for fear of Him [21:28]
And those whom they invoke instead of Him have no power of intercession; except those who bear witness to the truth and they know [43:86]
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful [4:64]
In waseela Ayats the translation clearly shows that it is not forbidden
Those whom they invoke seek means of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared [17:57]
Where is it forbidden tell me in the above Ayat
O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek the means of approach (waseela) to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed [5:35]
There are numerous Hadees about intercession shall we start dialoguing.
Those whom they invoke seek means of access to their Lord, [striving as to] which of them would be nearest, and they hope for His mercy and fear His punishment. Indeed, the punishment of your Lord is ever feared [17:57]
Where is it forbidden tell me in the above Ayat
O you who have believed, fear Allah and seek the means of approach (waseela) to Him and strive in His cause that you may succeed [5:35]
There are numerous Hadees about intercession shall we start dialoguing.
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My Dear Brother Cheeko, Since the topic of this thread is "What is SHIRK" hence we are trying to keep focus on the topic "SHIRK".
"Intercession" is a different topic. We may discuss that topic in near future with a separate thread.
My humble request to you is that please keep your focus to the topic.
By the way, Brother atensari had posted some comments and videos regarding "intercession" (refer his post#15 &60 within this thread), did you checked those posts?
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nasir ahmed
Voter (50+ posts)
yeah dumbo intercession i.e has asking help from Allahs friends which you have forgetten your topic purpourts that asking help is against islam i.e shirk .While Allah has clearly stated in the Quran it is allowed I have given the Surahs and Ayahs.
in the quran it is stated the believers have many helpers the surah are followed by the verses:
[FONT="]4:75
66:4
3:52
5:55
8:64
5:2 .
26:89
26:100
17:80 .
2:87 .
18:95
And the quran states that the [/FONT][FONT="]righteous can help others even after their death.
[/FONT][FONT="]3:81
21:107
34:28
2:89
[/FONT][FONT="]The Sinners gain blessings due to the Pious
18:82
52:21
4:69 [/FONT]
in the quran it is stated the believers have many helpers the surah are followed by the verses:
[FONT="]4:75
66:4
3:52
5:55
8:64
5:2 .
26:89
26:100
17:80 .
2:87 .
18:95
And the quran states that the [/FONT][FONT="]righteous can help others even after their death.
[/FONT][FONT="]3:81
21:107
34:28
2:89
[/FONT][FONT="]The Sinners gain blessings due to the Pious
18:82
52:21
4:69 [/FONT]
Dear babadeena, I did not derail any thread rather various headings can be covered under the label of shirk.
As for SHIRK, it is opposite of TOWHEED. The definition of towheed is clearly told in surah al ikhlaas. If one understand towheed then one becomes aware of what shirk is. Not only that but the quran also defines for shirk as well see surah alkafiroon.
Here is surah ikhlaas in its entireity.
112.001
YUSUFALI: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
PICKTHAL: Say: He is Allah, the One!
SHAKIR: Say: He, Allah, is One.
112.002
YUSUFALI: Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
PICKTHAL: Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
SHAKIR: Allah is He on Whom all depend.
112.003
YUSUFALI: He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
PICKTHAL: He begetteth not nor was begotten.
SHAKIR: He begets not, nor is He begotten.
112.004
YUSUFALI: And there is none like unto Him.
PICKTHAL: And there is none comparable unto Him.
SHAKIR: And none is like Him.
It is further made clear in surah al kafiroon.
109.001
YUSUFALI: Say : O ye that reject Faith!
PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
SHAKIR: Say: O unbelievers!
109.002
YUSUFALI: I worship not that which ye worship,
PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
SHAKIR: I do not serve that which you serve,
109.003
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
109.004
YUSUFALI: And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
SHAKIR: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
109.005
YUSUFALI: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
SHAKIR: Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
109.006
YUSUFALI: To you be your Way, and to me mine.
PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.
SHAKIR: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
Now the question is, does any muslims worth the name believe anyone is like allahs as explained by allah himself? The answer is no not a single muslim worth the name believes in anyone as if one is god or like allah.
So a muslim cannot be proven a mushrik. That is all I am saying.
As for people, visiting graves and seeking help of the dead. This has nothing to do with shirk. The reason is because muslim do not go to graves of gods nor they take anyone of the dead as god like. So no matter what, you fail to prove that a muslim can be a mushrik by their actions.
Even the actions muslims do on the graves are kufar or islam is not the point at all. Because so long as one does not believe in any other person or thing as a god ie an independent of god person one is not doing anything wrong belief wise. However the actions in themselves are halaal or haraam is the real point. As brothers have stated in no uncertain terms that the quran forbids certain actions for other than allah therefore if anyone does them being a muslim then he is committing a major sin. For example, if anyone makes sajda to a grave or peer etc then one is doing the very wrong thing ie one is doing what he is told not to do very clearly by allah himself. Such a person is not a mushrik or a kaafir but haraam kaar.
Likewise if anyone being a muslim asks anything of anyone in the grave etc directly then again one is not a kaafir or mushrik but may be silly, if one does not know who or what is in the grave.
In the quran it is mentioned that allah took his abd on a jouney during the part of a night around which allah has bestowed barakaat. This is understood to be graves of the prophets 17/1.
Zakeria prays for a son in a place wherein he looked after mariam. Allah made muqaame ibrahim musallah. So there is some thing special about places wherein people lived or spent time whom allah loved. These like things are not agains tthe quran. To say respecting things or places related to people loved by god is shirk is actually not proper understanding of the quran.
Now if places are so important to god himself then those people are no doubt more important to god whatever the reason. This is all in the quran not some sort of weak or false hadith.
I am the one talking about all the verses in the quran whereas you are just giving me one kind of verses. I asked you to define MINDOONILLAH and you have failedon that I am still waiting. It is because allah will throw so called mindoonillah in hell along those who worship them. I also talked about incarnation of so called gods eg god taking on human forms. All this very clearly shows that mushrik in quranic sense are only those people who believe in other gods besides allah. This is why the other name for them is polytheists. Can you call anyone a theist who does not even believe in a god? No such a poerson is an atheist. So how can you call anyone a polytheists who does not believe in multiple gods with allah? You see dear babadeena you are not making any sense whatrsoever in this matter. This is why I said that your understanding of the quran in this matter seems mistaken. The whole evidence from the quran, the principles of islam and rules of grammar and tafseer and logic are clearly showing that you do not have any basis for your definition of polytheism.
This is why I think we have discussed this topic enough, we should let it rest now till we have had some rest. If any new evidence comes to light I shall be glad to discuss the issue further.
So dear brother till then all the best with all due respect.
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I replyied his posts and he has no proper reply. Some of the people r telling that intercession is shirk so I am here to reply them. If you tell them to move to other thread then I stop but they continueing and so I will reply.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
My videos are posted after your comments, have a look.
If some ones thinks somebody will able to tell Allah that this person is not as appearing in Book (nama amal) he is comminting Shirk. Allah already knows who is who.
Shirk is only that you pray or call other then Allah, it does have many faces, even a System for example Democracy is Shirk.
I will invite you listen my post regarding reality and types of Shirk. http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...k-(شرک-کیا-ہے)&p=294061&viewfull=1#post294061
A person who tells that even democracy shirk is funny. It tells that you unable to win against Imran Khan. I am done.
May Allah guide you Ameen.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Democracy is Shirk, because human took the authority of Allah to decide what is Haram or Halal, look at West. By law they declared Drinking, gambling, pre-marital sex etc. permissible acts. Humans are no one to decide what is permissible or not.
In Pakistani constitution President has the authority to forgive death convicted, does Islam allow this?
Look what Allama Iqbal said about Democracy:
Well your definition is totally against Quran:
"They associate other deities with Allah because they do not pay heed to His Signs, which serve as pointers to the Right Way. So they go astray from it and get lost in thorny bushes. Nevertheless, many of them do not lose sight of the Reality entirely, and do not disbelieve in Allah as their Creator and Sustainer,but they get involved in shirk. That is, they do not deny the existence of God, but they believe that there arc other deities who are also partners in His Being, His Attributes, His Powers, and His Rights. They should never have been involved in shirk, had they considered these Signs in the heavens and the earth from this point of view, for in that case they would have discovered everywhere, in each and every one of them, the proofs of the Oneness of Allah."
وَمَا يُؤْمِنُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ بِاللَّهِ إِلَّا وَهُمْ مُشْرِكُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{106**[/FONT]
Sura :Yusuf:
Mughal1,
(Lay giareevee walay da na, tay dobee hoee tar jay dee) (Take the Name of 11 wala and your drowned boat will resurface).
Do you consider that people who say this do not believe in Allah, they do, but at the same time they are Mushrik also?
(Khuda jis ko pakray choraay Muhammad, par Muhammad jis ko pakray Chora koi nai sakta) (Allah Grasped someone, Muhammad(PBUH)
will let him loose, but if Muhammad(PBUH) grasped someone, noone will let him loose).
Do you consider such people do not believe allah, but at the same time they commit Shirk;
What you say.
(Lay giareevee walay da na, tay dobee hoee tar jay dee) (Take the Name of 11 wala and your drowned boat will resurface).
Do you consider that people who say this do not believe in Allah, they do, but at the same time they are Mushrik also?
(Khuda jis ko pakray choraay Muhammad, par Muhammad jis ko pakray Chora koi nai sakta) (Allah Grasped someone, Muhammad(PBUH)
will let him loose, but if Muhammad(PBUH) grasped someone, noone will let him loose).
Do you consider such people do not believe allah, but at the same time they commit Shirk;
What you say.
