FaisalLatif

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: The best Lecture by Dr. Israr Ahmed - MUST SEE



dr israr spoke against this gentleman on many occasions. his name is g m pervez and is considered by many, including dr israr as one of the so called ahle quran sect who say that they do not believe in hadith and they only follow quran. he denies this and says he does believe in a select few hadith.

he was a freind of moulana moududi, but even moududi sahab distanced himself from him when mr pervez's veiws about hadith became more and more radical.

couldnt find the video of dr israr speaking against him on youtube at the moment. will post it as soon as i find it. however there is a wikipedia link about him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolu-e-Islam
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: The best Lecture by Dr. Israr Ahmed - MUST SEE

dr israr spoke against this gentleman on many occasions. his name is g m pervez and is considered by many, including dr israr as one of the so called ahle quran sect who say that they do not believe in hadith and they only follow quran. he denies this and says he does believe in a select few hadith.

he was a freind of moulana moududi, but even moududi sahab distanced himself from him when mr pervez's veiws about hadith became more and more radical.

couldnt find the video of dr israr speaking against him on youtube at the moment. will post it as soon as i find it. however there is a wikipedia link about him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolu-e-Islam

Dear Faisal Latif, I am very much aware of the fact that people say things about others but that is not the right way to judge the matter. One needs to listen to all sides in any dispute or disagreement and then come to conclusion for oneself.

May be you are not aware of people who distanced themselves from others including mawdoodi sahib. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with people over certain things and agreeing with them over certain things so long as your position is evidence based.

I personally do not believe that all reports in all ahadith books that are attributed to the prophet are actually so. Likewise all mullahs and ulema choose and naqideen of Ahadith have pointed out many false ahadith in their books. Therefore if anyone says I do not accept such and such hadith authentic because of this or that and one is talking sense then we cannot condemn such a person. In fact we need to be grateful to such people who warn us from time to time about made up stories and make beliefs etc.

What we need to learn is that deen is given by Allah and it is complete in form of the quran as divine information. However, this does not means that any of us really has come to know deen as it is in the quran completely. This is why research and exploration of deen is a continuous and life long process.

One person comes and discovers one thing and another comes along and discovers another and so this continues.

Some time what we find is that what earlier people said about certain things in the quran does not make sense or does not work in real life and we go back to drawing board and start again and we keep doing that till we have managed to solved the problem.

The main problem is that we only have text of the quran to work on which is beyond question however the meanings of the text are only acceptable if they make sense otherwise we keep on trying to discover the meaning that really fit the text of the quran as well as the quran and the real world.

The main reason for this was the confusion created by various conspiracies against islam and quran from within and from outside.

We all know islam is a deen not a mazhab or a maslak. Now word deen means nizaam=dastoor=constitution=ruling system= a system that set out for people a way or set of rules and laws to live their life by or to judge their conduct of affairs by.

This means if islam is a deen then there cannot be any other system of ruling in islam eg imperialism. Now kings when they took over muslim ummah they removed deen out of their way by turning it in to mazhab. Mazhab means a system of beliefs or a set of beliefs or creed of dogmas and not a ruling system.

Once islam was turned from deen to mazhab, the road was opened for muslims kings to use and abuse their own people as well as others. The road blocks that were set by deen to stop human exploitation and abuse were removed. Thus islam was actually turned into same kufaria system of ruling that it came to oppose.

Seeing that imperialism could not be opposed openly or you lose your life as a traitor, secret movements were started to gain support for deen once more eg in form of tareeqat. Thus knowledge of islam was shared from person to person. However thius movement did not remain secret for long and when imperialists found out they penetrated the tareeqat movement and did with it what people do ie you try to find out what the movement exactly stands for, how it works and how it could be destroyed or derailed from it objectivity or goal etc.

Thus the peeri mureedi came to being wherein people are redirected from deen to mazhab without their knowing. Ritualism thus was adopted from other religions as islam eg if you have a headache then you read a verse or a surah of the quran so many times at certain times and Allah will heal.

Because one party always conspired against the other for power, islam became a totally confused thing. This is why today we have so many sects because muslims have been misled into many direction so that ruling elite is never challenged in the name of islam the deen. So long as islam remains a mazhab ruling for elite is secure. This is why ruling elite build masjids and place therein imaams who tell us what islam is and we follow that islam.

We are not allowed to question that islam or we are traitors.

All this becomes clear if one studies islam by reading the quran with care. One will see that verses of the quran that have been mistranslated and misinterpreted do not make sense because some verses are about deen which these people have tried to explain away as mazhab.

The quran is such a book that cannot be twisted or you end up with loads of contradictions both within and out side world realities ie then the quran contradicts self evident facts. This is why mullahs tell people not to question the quran because they have much to hide from us.

As for people condemning anyone that too is a straight forward thing. Since we have been brought up on diet of dogmas, we have been programed to be quick to condemn anyone we see contradicting what we believe islam to be.

This is why when new ideas are told about by anyone we think this is not islam because we think we know all we need to know about islam. Therefore we do not let anyone speak and so we are loosing ourselves to slavery of ruling elite by way of mullahs who work for them.

This is why if we want to come out of slavery then we must take islam as a deen and not as a mazhab.

Sir ahmed khan, alama iqbal, muhammad ali jinnah, g a parwez and many many more are those people who realised this fact and moved away from mullahism. Masses still need to be convinced about this fact.

The other point is islamic books as to when they came about and why or who wrote them for what purpose and when? This is very important to see whether these authors were imperialist mullahs or ulemai ummat. Because one people clearly served kings and rulers and the others clearly opposed and yet others were undecided or worked for both under their situations and circumstances.

It is for this reason quran must be understood on its own because it is pure in text and context whereas anything else including ahadith and tafaseer, sirate rasool or islamic history could be of doubtful origin but if we use the quran as the criterion then it is still possible to separate what is good from that what is bad.

This is another main reason that mullahs want us to understand the quran through unreliable sources so that we do not get the true picture of real islam as deen.

So anyone who stays close to quran and takes other information on basis of the quran is likely to be ok but anyone who listens to mullahs and scriptures is unlikely to survive intact.

This is why the quran clearly tells us do not follow anyone even your ancestors unless they are on the right path and that right path is the one identified clearly beyond a shadow of doubt in the books of Allah and in our case the quran.

Yet another conspiracy against the quran is taking out a couple of verses from the quran and using them as dogmatic creed and leaving the rest of the quran aside so that its real message becomes obsolete. This is how they invented khatam darood and sawaab ideology.

The actual fact is the quran is a letter of Allah to individuals as his message for them to understand and benefit from what it says. That is real concept of sawab.

More explanation may be later but main thing is that muslims must come to realise what mullahs are doing to them on directions of the ruling elite who fund them.

regards and all the best.
 
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swing

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: The best Lecture by Dr. Israr Ahmed - MUST SEE

thanks a lot man.
JAZZAK ALLAH KHAIR.
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Pakistan has the biggest Amanat of Allah for Ummat-e-Muslima

A nation of lions are being lead by a group of rats!! The creation of this nation tells me that it's not over by a long shot yet tougher tmes lie ahead.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Pakistan has the biggest Amanat of Allah for Ummat-e-Muslima

DEEN V MAZHAB

2/119-160

119) Indeed We have sent you for the purpose of good news and warning; so you will not be called upon to answer about the actions of those who reject and oppose Our constitution and end in terrible agony.


120) The Jews and the Christians who follow their own make beliefs will never be pleased with you until you too follow their self made tradition. Tell them, Allah’s guidance is the only right way; and if after all the knowledge that has come to you from Allah, you still give in to their wicked ambitions and desires, there shall be nothing to prevent you or help you from going against the way of Allah.


121) Those to whom We have given the book and who understand it and proclaim as it ought to be proclaimed, they are the ones who really strive for peace thereby; as to those who deny and oppose it, they are for sure the losers.


122) O children of Israel, call to mind my blessing that I bestowed upon you in form of My revelations whereby I made you conversant in all the fields of knowledge.


123) So reject not this message and be mindful of the time to come when one person will not benefit another even in the least, no excuse will be accepted of anyone, no excuse will benefit anyone, and none will be there to help anyone.


124) And call to mind the time when Abraham was engaged by his Lord with some divine goals and he fulfilled them. Allah said: I will point you out as the role model for the nations. Abraham said, what about my children? Allah said, I shall not point out those as role models who will inflict damage on mankind against the divine rule.


125) Thus We made the sacred constitution as central for the sanctuary of the people saying, take the standard of Abraham as primary example of a divine system of ruling; We instructed Abraham and Ismail to keep Our constitution free of all make beliefs for those who may wish to refer to it for information, and for those who may wish to reflect upon it, and for those who may wish to turn to it and for those who may wish to submit to it.


126) And remember when Abraham said, my Lord make this habitation a peaceful place and provide those of its people with plenty of the provisions as strive to make peace by constitution of Allah as reference for their end goal. He said, even for those who make war I shall also provide whatever little they deserve though I shall let them drag themselves to the fire of hatred and destruction and that is a terrible state of affairs to be in!


127) and remember that Abraham and Ishmael established the objectives of the divine constitution saying, accept this service from us, O Lord, Surely You are the one who hears and knows.


128) Our Lord, keep both of us committed for your work and keep a branch from our children also committed for your work, and show us your tasks by turning to us in mercy. Surely, You often turn to your servants with mercy.


129) Our lord raise from amongst them a messenger who declares to them your goals and teaches them the book and rules of judgement and brings them out of their make beliefs. Indeed you are the one exalted in wisdom.


130) And Who can go against the set of goals of Abraham save the foolish? We chose him to be a model for the people of the world, and indeed to the end he proved to be of those who do good for others.


131) When his Lord said to him commit yourself for bringing peace to people, he replied: I commit to the mission set by the Lord of the nations.


132) This was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons and so did Jacob, when he said: O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the ruling system to live by therefore, die not unless you are fully submitted to it.


133) Were you present when death approached Jacob? He asked his sons: Who will you serve after me? They replied: We will serve the same One God Who is your God and God of your forefathers Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, and to His system of rule we will all submit.


134) They were a people that have passed away. They reaped the fruits of what they did, and you shall face the consequences for what you do. You shall not be questioned about what they did.


135) Some Jews and Christians say to you: Be Jewish or Christian then you shall on the right path. Say, no they are not on the right path so We will rather follow the divine system of Abraham, the one who opposed all other systems; and he was not of those who accept rival systems.


136) Say: We strive for peace in service of Allah on basis of that which is revealed to us; and that which was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, also that which was given to Moses, Jesus and other Prophets from their Lord. We do not discriminate against any of them, and we are of those who work for peace.


137) So, if they too strive for peace as you strive for peace then they have attained right guidance. However, if they turn away from path of peace then they will surely pick fights with you; But, guidance of Allah will be sufficient for you against their animosity, for He is the hearing one and the knowing one.


138) The authorization of Allah; and who is better than Allah in authorization? His ruling system we serve.


139) Say, would you fight with us concerning Allah who is our Lord and your Lord as well? We shall be accountable to Him for our deeds and you for yours; to His system alone we are committed.


140) Do you claim that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants were all Jews or Christians? Are you more knowledgeable or is it Allah? Who is more harmful than the one who hides the testimony received from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what you do.


141) That was a nation who has already passed away. They are responsible for what they did and you are for what you do, you shall not be questioned about their deeds.


142) After all this explanation still the foolish will ask, what has turned these people away from the path upon which they used to be? Say, East and West belong to Allah; He guides whom He finds deserving to the path that is firmly founded.


143) Thus We collected you together into a nation in the middle of the mankind so that you could stand witness before humanity about the guidance of Allah as your Messenger bore witness to you. We did not raise you on the path you were born upon but to make evident those who are the real followers of the Messenger of those who back away. It was indeed a matter of great difficulty but not for those whom Allah has guided. Allah did not want to make your efforts for peace fruitless. For Allah is Compassionate and Merciful to mankind.


144) Many a time We saw you looking towards heaven for guidance, therefore We turn you towards a target that will please you. So from now on involve yourself fully towards achieving the divine mission. No matter wherever you are from, people get yourselves involved fully in the set mission. The people of the Book know this to be the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.


145) Even if you bring every proof to the people of the Book, they will not support your mission, nor will you support their mission. Neither of them are supporters of each other's goals. If, after all the knowledge you have been given, you still yield to their harmful desires then surely you will be of those who go off the right track.


146) Those to whom We have given the scriptures recognize this Quran as they recognize their own children. Yet a group of them remain silent about the truth and they know it.


147) The Quran is from your Lord indeed; therefore, be not of those who doubt.


148) For each people is their own set goal towards which they move, so, you followers of divine mission move together towards all that is good for mankind. Whatever background you are from, Allah will bring all of you together, for Allah has set rule of nature for all things.


149) From whichever background you start your journey of life towards divine mission, remain focused on the sacred mission; this is the proper guidance from your Lord. Allah is not unaware of that which you do.


150) So whichever background you come from get yourselves fully involved towards accomplishment of the sacred goal, and whichever place you live in work towards it, so that people of the place have no evidence of any wrong doings against you, excepting those among them who are against the idea of fair and compassionate society, for such continue false allegations against humanists out of arrogance and ignorance. Pay them no attention rather remain focused on My mission, so that I may fulfil My blessings of revelation and prosperity for you so that you are guided along the path that is firmly founded.


151) Like in the past, We sent between you a Messenger from among your who declares to you Our objectives to free you from harmful ideas and actions by teaching you the Book with rules of wisdom for knowing and doing things wisely, thus he teaches you that which you did not know before.


152) So remind nations about Me and I will let nations know about you thus appreciate Me by following my mission and do not be ungrateful by starting rival missions.


153) O’ You who work for peace, support consistently with steadfastness the divine ruling system, surely Allah is with those who are consistent and persistent in accomplishing His mission.


154) And say not of those who are murdered for supporting the cause of Allah that they have died in vain. Not at all, for they live on due to cause but that is not how you look at their death.


155) Also we will let you have the opportunities to go through things like fear and hunger and loss of goods or lives or produce to prove yourselves but happy news is for those who remain persistent.


156) who when afflicted with hardship say, we are working for Allah and to Him we shall refer for guidance.


157) Such determined are the people upon whom rests establishment of divine targets and spreading of revelation of Allah; and they are the ones indeed that are rightly guided.


158) Surely clarity of claim and proving evidence based argument are of the ways of Allah for establishing the truth of claim. So anyone who puts forth any evidence for the divine system of rule in the land or any argument for it therefore is not doing anything wrong if one goes around using both of these ways of Allah; and anyone who does this for the good of others voluntarily then Allah recognises that gracefully.


159) Those who deliberately hide the clear goals and the guidance after We have made it clear to mankind in the Book they are the ones whom Allah lets remain in state of suffering, for they will suffer at hands of those who make others suffer;


160) except those who return to guidance and reform and declare divine objectives clearly, for such are the ones upon whom opens up My grace, for I am the one who turns to people with mercy again and again.
 

littlemaster

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Current situation & future of Islam: Dr. Israr Ahmad (Rehmatullah Alaih)

well worth watching. please watch this clip after clip 4 of dr shaib.
 

behzadji

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Pakistan has the biggest Amanat of Allah for Ummat-e-Muslima

A nation of lions are being lead by a group of rats!! The creation of this nation tells me that it's not over by a long shot yet tougher tmes lie ahead.

A nation of lions lead by a group of khinzeers.
 

Rathore

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Re: Last words of Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinah- Khilafat System

Kash ke Quaid-e-Azam jaisa aur koi leader aajaye.
 

ahmadalikhan

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Last words of Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinah- Khilafat System

Inshallah Khilafat will establish once aigain. allama Iqbal ne iss ki khuskhabri de di thi bohat pehle. aik dervesh issay qaeem kare ga.
107.GIF


magar iss ke liye Humain Khilafat mein rehne wale log tayar kerne hain. Its everybody's responsibility to prepare his character to match our forefathers of Khilafat-e-Rashida

67.GIF
 

waseem563

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

یہ ویڈیو سیکولر ، لبرل ، وغیرہ وغیرہ ذہنیت رکنے والوں کو دکانا چاہیے
 

mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed


یار،جھوٹ اور من گھڑت مولویوں کی بھی اللہ کے ہاں ضرور پکڑ ہوگی۔وہی روایات کے ذریعے کچھ کا کچھ بنا دینا۔ساری عمر گنوادی اور موت سے دو دن پہلے خلافت یاد آ رہی ہے۔کوئی اس گپی سے پوچھے کہ اگرجناح خلافت کے اتنے ہی مداح تھے تو خلافت موومنٹ میں حصہ کیوں نہیں لیا؟اس وقت گھر میں کیوں بیٹھے رہے؟صرف اس لئے کہ ترکی کی خلافت انگریز نے ختم کی تھی اورسارے ہندوستان میں اس کا ردعمل ہوا تھا۔مشہور تحریک خلافت،جس کے روح رواں مولانا محمدعلی جوھر اورمولانا شوکت علی تھے حتی یہ کہ گاندھی نے بھی مسلمانوں سے اظہار یکجہتی کے لیئے اس میں حصہ لیا تھا۔اس وقت کیا ہوگیا تھا جناح صاحب کو؟کیوں تحریک خلافت کی مخالفت کی تھی؟کیا انگریز کو خوش کرنے کیلئے؟اب اسرار احمد صاحب کو ایک ڈائیری ملی ہے اور کہانی بیان ہو رہی ہے۔ساری زندگی جناح نے مسلمانوں والا کوئی کام نہیں کیا۔ کیا واسطہ ان کا خلافت سے؟زیادہ مت کہلواؤ۔اس ملک میں سچ بولنا سب سے بڑا جرم ہے۔جہاں مولوی صرف واہ واہ کروانے کیلئے جھوٹ بول رہے ہوں وہاں یہی حشر ہوگا جو اس ملک کا ہو رہا ہے۔

 

Bret Hawk

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed


یار،جھوٹ اور من گھڑت مولویوں کی بھی اللہ کے ہاں ضرور پکڑ ہوگی۔وہی روایات کے ذریعے کچھ کا کچھ بنا دینا۔ساری عمر گنوادی اور موت سے دو دن پہلے خلافت یاد آ رہی ہے۔کوئی اس گپی سے پوچھے کہ اگرجناح خلافت کے اتنے ہی مداح تھے تو خلافت موومنٹ میں حصہ کیوں نہیں لیا؟اس وقت گھر میں کیوں بیٹھے رہے؟صرف اس لئے کہ ترکی کی خلافت انگریز نے ختم کی تھی اورسارے ہندوستان میں اس کا ردعمل ہوا تھا۔مشہور تحریک خلافت،جس کے روح رواں مولانا محمدعلی جوھر اورمولانا شوکت علی تھے حتی یہ کہ گاندھی نے بھی مسلمانوں سے اظہار یکجہتی کے لیئے اس میں حصہ لیا تھا۔اس وقت کیا ہوگیا تھا جناح صاحب کو؟کیوں تحریک خلافت کی مخالفت کی تھی؟کیا انگریز کو خوش کرنے کیلئے؟اب اسرار احمد صاحب کو ایک ڈائیری ملی ہے اور کہانی بیان ہو رہی ہے۔ساری زندگی جناح نے مسلمانوں والا کوئی کام نہیں کیا۔ کیا واسطہ ان کا خلافت سے؟زیادہ مت کہلواؤ۔اس ملک میں سچ بولنا سب سے بڑا جرم ہے۔جہاں مولوی صرف واہ واہ کروانے کیلئے جھوٹ بول رہے ہوں وہاں یہی حشر ہوگا جو اس ملک کا ہو رہا ہے۔



Baig Sahab I’ve been following your verbosity, which is tinged in shallowness and frivolity, on this board for many months. What sort of truth you require to hear by the way? The truth, which makes an appealing effect on your premeditated but distorted frame of mind?

Every individual, materialistic being undergoes the transformation in this world as the absoluteness of nature and views are not really possible for those especially who want to persistently progress in search of the ultimate reality and knowledge of things. Muhammad Ali Jinnah did indeed object the Caliphate Movement of the Indian Subcontinent but he also was not in favour of a separate state for Muslims either at that stage of his life if you try to remember about this glaring fact of the history of struggle for Pakistan?

People like you only know how to bark and spew venom to appease your inner filthy urges the centre of which is to create confusion, hatred and misinformation through their filth ridden views. Now the Late Dr Israr has quoted a reliable reference and source for that statement of Mr Jinnah now if you have any substantial proof to contradict his statement then by all means do present it for the dispensation of members of this forum or just shut the hell up and try to learn what people of knowledge and refined reasoning have to state.