mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

People of knowledge like Dr Asrar,lier,fabricating story just to decorate a personality of his choice.Tell me, in the whole history of sub-continent,did you ever hear about this diary and its contents?Jinah is not with us now.He has gone with all his goods and bads.But for God's sake,don't molest the history.
You kept cleaning my venom,but did not explain why Jinah was against Caliphate Movement??Who was to be pleased?? Am I wrong that he was not a practicing muslim? Basically,we are history abusers,we craft idols of our choice and blindly worship them.
Your language is evident taht you are lacking of worthy arguments and started abusing.
I have seen Dr Asrar Ahmed playing on backfoot and loosing his cajolery before people of knowledge.
Have a big heart buddy ! Learn to hear and bear opponent's views.


VERY SIMPLE
WHAT WAS THE MAIN SLOGAN OF PAKISTAN
PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA
LA ILAHA IL LALLAH

LA ILAHA IL LALLAH
IS THE ESSENCE OF ISLAM

WHAT IS A TRUE SYSTEM OF RULE IN ISLAM
FROM PROPHET SAW and FOUR KHALIFA

KHILAFAT
So
PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA
LA ILAHA IL LALLAH
PAKISTAN KI MANZIL KIA
LA ILAHA IL LALLAH
YANI
RULE OF KHILAFAT
INSHAALLAH
Not so simple,my dear as you are thinking.
No one chanted the slogan of"Pakistan ka mutlab kya".before partition.JI introduced this slogan first time in 1970 elections.
Before partition two slogans were very popular:
1- BUT K RAHEGA HINDUSTAN
BUN K RAHE GA PAKISTAN
&
2- HINDU HINDI HIDUSTAN
URDU MUSLIM PAKISTAN

Understand:)
 

WatanDost

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

Not so simple,my dear as you are thinking.
No one chanted the slogan of"Pakistan ka mutlab kya".before partition.JI introduced this slogan first time in 1970 elections.
Before partition two slogans were very popular:
1- BUT K RAHEGA HINDUSTAN
BUN K RAHE GA PAKISTAN
&
2- HINDU HINDI HIDUSTAN
URDU MUSLIM PAKISTAN

Understand:)

Sorry to say
You have no answer
So you are denying the HISTORY
PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA
LA ILAHA IL LALLAH

THIS WAS THE MAIN SLOGAN OF TEHREEK E PAKISTAN
ALHAMDOLILLAH
 
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mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

Maulana Maududi's son disagrees with this UNVERIFIED claim of Dr Israr, and rightfully talks about how Quaid did NOT want a religiously-motivated system in place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KQG_7nWQA4

and remember:

You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/constituent_address_11aug1947.html

Excellent quote,Khan Sahib.
Ghar ka Bhedi,Dr Asrar ki Kahani ko rud ker raha hey.
Watch it,note it and decide yourself how much truth is in Asrar Sahib's discovery(bigsmile)
 

mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

Sorry to say
You have no answer
So you are denying the HISTORY
THIS WAS THE MAIN SLOGAN OF TEHREEK E PAKISTAN
ALHAMDOLILLAH

You need more and more study before writing on such senstive topics.Otherwise sit in the corner and look,how the champions play:lol:
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed


یار،جھوٹ اور من گھڑت مولویوں کی بھی اللہ کے ہاں ضرور پکڑ ہوگی۔وہی روایات کے ذریعے کچھ کا کچھ بنا دینا۔ساری عمر گنوادی اور موت سے دو دن پہلے خلافت یاد آ رہی ہے۔کوئی اس گپی سے پوچھے کہ اگرجناح خلافت کے اتنے ہی مداح تھے تو خلافت موومنٹ میں حصہ کیوں نہیں لیا؟اس وقت گھر میں کیوں بیٹھے رہے؟صرف اس لئے کہ ترکی کی خلافت انگریز نے ختم کی تھی اورسارے ہندوستان میں اس کا ردعمل ہوا تھا۔مشہور تحریک خلافت،جس کے روح رواں مولانا محمدعلی جوھر اورمولانا شوکت علی تھے حتی یہ کہ گاندھی نے بھی مسلمانوں سے اظہار یکجہتی کے لیئے اس میں حصہ لیا تھا۔اس وقت کیا ہوگیا تھا جناح صاحب کو؟کیوں تحریک خلافت کی مخالفت کی تھی؟کیا انگریز کو خوش کرنے کیلئے؟اب اسرار احمد صاحب کو ایک ڈائیری ملی ہے اور کہانی بیان ہو رہی ہے۔ساری زندگی جناح نے مسلمانوں والا کوئی کام نہیں کیا۔ کیا واسطہ ان کا خلافت سے؟زیادہ مت کہلواؤ۔اس ملک میں سچ بولنا سب سے بڑا جرم ہے۔جہاں مولوی صرف واہ واہ کروانے کیلئے جھوٹ بول رہے ہوں وہاں یہی حشر ہوگا جو اس ملک کا ہو رہا ہے۔


Dear mrbaig, jinnah's understanding of the quran was not that of a mulla but of a lawyer. He did not believe in islam based on make beliefs. Make belief islam is a dogmatic creed and ritualism based islam. His understanding of islamic concepts was not there in mullas or masses. The same is true about sir seyyid ahemad khan, iqbal and g a parwez and many many more through out history.

The quran is the constitution for mankind not a book for khatam drood as is usual amongst mullas and masses. Unless one understand this difference one cannot know islam of jinnah.

Coming to two nation theory, it is not what masses make of it but a an idea about providing the muslim nation with a nest egg or starting point to develop from. There is a huge difference between dividing people on basis of religion on negative basis and grouping up a people under a banner on positive basis as a pilot project for the whole humanity. That is what the prophet did in state of madinah.

Pilot projects are experimental setups at a small scale to see if things will work and if they do then such projects become norm at a wider scale. It is like a tribe tribe comes up with an idea of business and sets up a few people from amongst itself and if they are successful then idea could be taken up by the rest as well.

To think like jinnah or sir seyyid or iqbal one needs a lot bigger mind. I am surprised at these peoples' foresight and farsightedness. Unfortunately, when it comes to islam, we cannot avoid mullas and the masses that follow them due to lack of education and critical thought. It took me nearly six decades to realise where these people were coming from.

It is because when you are born in a muslim family, you are fed with islam of mullas and then it takes ages to come out of that frame of thought and then to rediscover real islam and the real world. I have been there so I know what is going on but then it will take me yet more time to express what I have learned in my life for others.

Mawdudi sb mostly stuck to inherited islamic concepts. Anywhere he went off the track mullas were standing on his head with big sticks. He had no idea of what jinnah stood for that is why he opposed when did that. Hindus misunderstood due to mullas and muslim masses. The concept could not be clarified because that would have killed the project. It is like father takes his children somewhere for their benefit but does not explain to them because they cannot understand so he takes them anyway hoping when they grow up they will become aware of it.

When sir seyyid told mullas to stay away from make beliefs what was reaction? When mawdudi told people some things were shirk what was reaction?

This is why debate on what the real islam was avoided at the time because masses and mullas both had no idea and could not understand. Any time we start discussion on islam sectarianism raises its ugly head right away.

However, now that we have a state, we need to educate people to level of these people so that they could come to realise what these people told us. This is yet a distant dream the while economic strength is not there to improve our peoples' education. So this debate is yet to be fully realised and I am very sure that given the right time and attention it will be solved.

Make beliefs are like drug addiction and they cannot be overcome that easily but little by little education by way of discussions will bring some relief till we have what is needed to get rid of all make beliefs in the name of islam.

regards and all the best
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

Maulana Maududi's son disagrees with this UNVERIFIED claim of Dr Israr, and rightfully talks about how Quaid did NOT want a religiously-motivated system in place.

and remember:

You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State.


Did Islam stop any one in going their temples, mosque and other place of worship?

Quaid-a-Azam at inauguration ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan.


He was declared “Sword of Islam” by a non Muslims
 

Ehraz

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed


وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ ٱلْكِتَٰبِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِۦ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِۦ ۖ وَيَوْمَ ٱلْقِيَٰمَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًۭا {4:159**
And there is none among the people of the Book but shall surely believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Judgement he shall be a witness against them.
اور کوئی اہل کتاب نہیں ہوگا مگر ان کی موت سے پہلے ان پر ایمان لے آئے گا۔ اور وہ قیامت کے دن ان پر گواہ ہوں گے
Posting Quranic Ayat without proper understanding doesnt make you look like a wise person.
The pronoun his in the expression before his death stands for the noun none, meaning every one among the People of the Book before his own death. The Jews believe that they killed Jesus on the cross because they seek to prove that he was not a true Prophet. The Christians believe that he had died on the cross, and this is because they have adopted the doctrine of Atonement.
There is absolutely no reference in this and others vers to his physical ascension to heavens. There is no fixed abode can be assigned to God.
 

Ehraz

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

First decide who is to come FROM WHERE ;-)
Fairy tale is waiting for someone to come from the Heaven in a physical form... ;-)

YAAR tum Qadi**nio ko apney matlab kai liye hadees bhi yaad aa jati hai
jis ko tum nahi maantey

Aik sawal ka jawab dai do
Iblees Naari makhlooq hai ya Noori
Agar woh nari jinnat mai sai hai tow ARSH per kaisey pooncha
Aur muqarab tareen kaisey bana
Aur Allah SWT kai samney sajdey ka inqaar kar kai zaleel kioon howa
Jab nari makhlooq ARSH ILAHI per poonch sakti hai
aur phir zameen per dutkhari ja sakti hai
As QURAN SAID
tow
PHIR ESSA AS ASMANOON PER KIOON NAHI UTTYE JA SAKTEY?
AS QURAN SAID
AUR WAPIS KIOON NAHI AA SAKTEY?
AS PROPHET SAW SAID
..because there is no fixed abode which can be assigned to God. Btw. where in Quran is stated that he is living a physical live in heaven? Any ref.?


My reply to your comment is the same like mrbaig's "You need more study before writing on such sensitive topics. Otherwise sit in the corner and look, how the champions play"
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

In your version of Islam even a Muslim is not allowed to say "Assalamo Alaikum" to another Muslim. ;-)

Every "Muslim" can say Asalam o alikum :)

But not any one who use these terminologies to deceive others (serious)
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

Posting Quranic Ayat without proper understanding doesn’t make you look like a wise person.
The pronoun „his“ in the expression „before his death“ stands for the noun „none“, meaning every one among the People of the Book before his own death. The Jews believe that they killed Jesus on the cross because they seek to prove that he was not a true Prophet. The Christians believe that he had died on the cross, and this is because they have adopted the doctrine of Atonement.
There is absolutely no reference in this and others vers to his physical ascension to heavens. There is no fixed abode can be assigned to God.

[FONT=&quot]وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا ٱلْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ ۚ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخْتَلَفُوا۟ فِيهِ لَفِى شَكٍّۢ مِّنْهُ ۚ مَا لَهُم بِهِۦ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًۢا {4:157[/FONT]**
And for their saying: verily We have slain the Messiah 'Isa son of Maryam, an apostle of Allah, whereas they slew him not, nor they crucified him but it was made dubious unto them. And verily those who differ therein are in doubt thereof, they have no knowledge thereof; they but follow an opinion; and surely they slew him not.

[FONT=&quot]اور یہ کہنے کے سبب کہ ہم نے مریم کے بیٹے عیسیٰ مسیح کو جو خدا کے پیغمبر (کہلاتے) تھے قتل کردیا ہے (خدا نے ان کو معلون کردیا) اور انہوں نے عیسیٰ کو قتل نہیں کیا اور نہ انہیں سولی پر چڑھایا بلکہ ان کو ان کی سی صورت معلوم ہوئی اور جو لوگ ان کے بارے میں اختلاف کرتے ہیں وہ ان کے حال سے شک میں پڑے ہوئے ہیں اور پیروئی ظن کے سوا ان کو اس کا مطلق علم نہیں۔ اور انہوں نے عیسیٰ کو یقیناً قتل نہیں کیا[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ ۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًۭا {4:158[/FONT]**
But Allah raised him unto Himself; and Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.
[FONT=&quot]بلکہ خدا نے ان کو اپنی طرف اٹھا لیا۔ اور خدا غالب اور حکمت والا ہے[/FONT]

Wise man read earlier Ayats, you will know what happened, also add in your comments "not only Christens and Jews Qadyani also belive that he died".

Muhmmad SAW was given the knowledge where the grave of Hazrat Essa AS is, "this preference is given to Ghulam Ahmad Kazzab the prophet of Iblees".

This Ayat defiantly approves those Hadeeths which explains that those Jews/Christens who will not believe in Hazrat Essa and will not come in the folder of Islam in End Times will be Killed and only believing Ahla-Kitab will remain.
 
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atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

In your version of Islam even a Muslim is not allowed to say "Assalamo Alaikum" to another Muslim. ;-)

I am listening this very first time from you - if you think you are Muslim, you are wrong. You are a Qadiyani or Ahmadi what ever good name you like for your nation.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

This is absolute WRONG.
"Wala Almadhi illa Isa bin Mariyam" (Sunan ibn Majah, kitab ul fitan) The Mahdi is none other than Isa, son of Mary


From many points to answer your this claim
I am sending you Two
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]1) The famous Mufassir of the Qur`aan Majeed, Hadhrat Imaam Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Abi Bakr Al Qurtubi (RA) [passed away 671 A.H.] states regarding the narration, There is no Mahdi except Isaa Bin Maryam (alaihi salaam) that its chain of narrators are weak. He states further that Imaam Mahdi (AS) will be from the progeny of Hadhrat Faatimah (radhiyallahu anha) and that the Ahaadith regarding the coming of Imaam Mahdi (AS) in the last era are authentic and reliable. Therefore, the above-mentioned narration is not to be relied upon and cannot be used as a guide, since there are other authentic and Mutawaatir Ahaadith which abrogate it. He also states an interpretation for this narration that the possible reason for Nabi (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) having mentioned that [/FONT]
There is no Mahdi except Isaa Bin Maryam (alaihi salaam) was that there will be no complete and sinless Mahdi (Guide) except Hadhrat Isa (AS). Imaam Qurtubi (RA) states that this interpretation to the narration offers a suitable reconciliation between the various narrations, which appear to be contradictory.

Allamah Suyuti (RA) has also quoted this statement and commentary of Allamah Qurtubi (RA).

2) It is reported from Abu Hurairah (radhiyallahu anhu) who said, Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said, What will be your condition when the son of Maryam descends and your Imaam will be amongst you? [Narrated in Bukhari in the chapter, Nuzoolu Isaa Bin Maryam]

Two separate persons.
and i can qoute Many Hadith from the Sahi Bukhari and Sahi Muslim who clearly answer your point that Mahdi AS and Isa AS will be two person.

Note: as per MGA Sahi Bukhari and Sahi muslim have upper hand on all other books after Quran.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

[MENTION=9105]Ehraz[/MENTION]

Read what MGA was what MGA said What MGA claim.
Even if you prove that Isa as is dead or Mahdi is Isa AS

will not change the fact that MGA was unable to understand so called Wahi and he Asked Gair Nabi Hindu boy to translate wahi of Allah for him. I still wonder how can you swallow this fact.
 

Abdul Allah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

[MENTION=9105]Ehraz[/MENTION]

by the way i have no problem if you use Asalam o alikum etc...
I have problem with your believes on which keep saying what you can not prove
 

WatanDost

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

..because there is no fixed abode which can be assigned to God. Btw. where in Quran is stated that he is living a physical live in heaven? Any ref.?

I didnt said that ESSA AS is living in havens.
Read SAIF E CHISTHIYAEE of Hazrat Peer Mehr Ali Shah Golrawi
You get your answer
By the way i am asking for answer of this book by qadiyani s
but from normal qadiyaani to murabbi in Rabwa has no answer.
can you give me name of that book?
 

WatanDost

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Untold wording of Quaid e Azam about Khilafat by Dr.Israr Ahmed

..because there is no fixed abode which can be assigned to God. Btw. where in Quran is stated that he is living a physical live in heaven? Any ref.?

I didnt said that ESSA AS is living in heaven.
Read SAIF E CHISTHIYAEE of Hazrat Peer Mehr Ali Shah Golrawi
You get your answer
By the way i am asking for answer of this book by qadiyani s
from last 20 years
but from normal qadiyaani to murabbi in Rabwa has no answer.
can you give me name of that book?
 

dukelondon

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: پاکستان میں طالبانئیزیشن - Dr. Israr

[FONT=&quot]Brother if you analyze the philosophy and efforts of Dr. Israr Ahmed he worked on the same lines (highlighted). He never believed that Khalafa (Shariat) should be implemented by wining Islamabad through Ballot or Bullet.[/FONT]

Thats good brother. Lets make an effort to unite ourselves starting with this website and respond to any threat against Muslims (Bralevi, Deobandi, Shia, Wahabi) as a combined force. United we stand, divided we fall. The unity of Muslims has become more important than EVER before as Zionists are bent upon dividing and killing us and making us fight with each other. Lets honestly criticize anyone who is involved in any brutal activity against Muslims and appreciate anyone who supports a Muslim cause. May Allah(SWT) help us in staying united against our real enemy "The Zionists"
 

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