Question For Qadiyanis

[Pakistani1947]

I am not personally in in favour of debating with Pervaizis, Shia or Ahmadis etc. as their believes are totally different than main stream Muslims.

We should encourage debate between different sects of Muslims who have one thing in common i.e., Quraan and Hadeethpbuh .

Their is no point on debating with people who do not believe in Hadeeth, who has no respect for Sahabas:razi: and Ummat-ul-Maumineen:razi: or who do not believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last Prophet:naooz:.

Lets first be united on common ground i.e. Quraan and Sunnah and then we can debate with others.

 

[biomat]

Dear Pakistan1947
Assalam-o-alaikum
Welcome back after some time...
Bhai debating with qadiyanis/ahmedis or any similar topic relating to FINALITY OF PROPHETHOOD & KHATAMUL UMBIYA PBUH, all sects are agreed upon.
So i dont think that you should raise this issue here of solving sect issue first then with those who reject finality of prophethood.
If you have some valuable info to share with us relating to this topic, then you are v welcome. Other wise let them debate or ignore it.
Jaza-k-ALLAH
Highest regard

 

[hajimohammad]

Merzai hazraat kay jhoot ko zahir karney wali shakh-seeyat

Mirza masroor is lying in his sermon that Muslims are like Yazeed and ahmadis are like Hussain(ra), infact ahmadiyya CULT is true follower of YAZEED and not allowing any ahmadi to raise his voice against the system, for more info. visit, www.ahmedi.org

 

[Meraypass]

Re: Merzai hazraat kay jhoot ko zahir karney wali shakh-seeyat

Mirza masroor is lying in his sermon that Muslims are like Yazeed and ahmadis are like Hussain(ra), infact ahmadiyya CULT is true follower of YAZEED and not allowing any ahmadi to raise his voice against the system, for more info. visit, www.ahmedi.org

You need to see this;

 

[Meraypass]

Dear Pakistan1947
FINALITY OF PROPHETHOOD & KHATAMUL UMBIYA PBUH, all sects are agreed upon.

Why do you non-Ahmadis keep repeating this big lie and have made up your own religion, completely ignoring the Islamic scholarship of 1400 years? Are those prominent, established and recognised mujadids like Ibn-e-Arabi (mujadid of 6th century) Imam Tirmizi etc kafir/non-Muslim for believing that a prophet can come or the prophethood continues? If so why were they not declared kafir by a consensus of Ummah over centuries? Instead all of them are all revered personalities of Islam and some even accepted as mujadids (reformers) of their age by consensus.

 

[Meraypass]

Their is no point on debating with people ... who do not believe that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last Prophet:naooz:.

Lets first be united on common ground i.e. Quraan and Sunnah and then we can debate with others.

Ahmadis understand and follow Quraan and Sunnah better than any other sect!! Guaranteed! The problem is dishonesty on the part of their non-Ahmadis counterparts. For example there is NO evidence whatsoever of Jesus flying to sky (aasmaan) alive through space like Superman in whole of Quran and Ahadith but you guys sill insist on that. What can one do about it when you yourself do not follow Quraan and Sunnah?

Ghamdi has given the argument in favour of Hazrat Isa as's death here from Quran;

You deny the Quran when you still believe Jesus to be alive. Is Quran written by Ahmadis? What is your reason for not following it? Yet you have the cheek to blame Ahmadis of not following Quran.

What you consider as the correct (in your opinion) understandings of Quraan and Sunnah are merely wrong interpretations that have seeped into Islamic thought in last 1400 years due to scholarly corruption and you have merely inherited them from your ancestors without critical thought. If you consider whatever has been told to you from childhood as absolute truth and keep your mind closed then yes there is no point in debating.

This exactly is the reason why the majority (who you call mainstream) were declared wrong by Holy Prophet (72 sects hadith) and this is why a messiah, who is also a prophet, was prophesised to come by Holy Prophet saw to clear the Ummah of all these wrong interpretations. Think about it; if the mainstream Muslims are already correct then why the downfall of the Ummah and why the need of the Messiah? If you start seeing things a little logically you will start to see both the reason for downfall of the Ummah, and its solution which is the appearance of the Messiah and his acceptance by the Ummah to regain its past glory. If you were correct in the first place why would you need the Messiah anyway?

Here is one hadith for you interest;

Ali (RA) related that Prophet of Allah (SAW) said soon a time will dawn upon mankind when there will be nothing left in Islam but its name only and nothing in Quran but its (written) words only. The mosques will be full (of people) but empty of righteous guidance, their clergy will be the worst creation under the sky, divisive movements (Fitna) will rise from them and return to them.

Mishkat, Book of Ilm, Al-Fasl III, page 38; Kanz-al-Ummal page 6 of 43.

Problem is when all arguments have been made and truth has been made clear by Ahmadis then you guys resort to violence and dishonesty; a sure sign of defeat in arguments. Why would you be killing, persecuting and oppressing Ahmadis if you can defend yourself by arguments and reason? Why the one sided lies everywhere in media and not allowing Ahmadis to appear on TV or have their point of view published in press? Then add to that accusations of them being agents of everything and everyone under the sky without a shred of evidence. All this makes is abundantly clear that the more knowledgeable among you know the weakness of your faith and the arguments it stands on. Any sane and fair-minded person will by now understand who is right and who is wrong.

Lastly, not every hadith can be considered part of Sunnah without investigation. There are issues around Ahadith and some have to be set aside for reasons such as if they conflict with the teachings of Quran. Quran is guaranteed protection from Allah not Ahadith so treat the two accordingly.

 

[wanderer]

y oh y ? do we keep asking what we already know ?? why cant they just be accepted as Non muslims and we move on ??

 

[Abdul Allah]

Why do you non-Ahmadis keep repeating this big lie and have made up your own religion, completely ignoring the Islamic scholarship of 1400 years? Are those prominent, established and recognised mujadids like Ibn-e-Arabi (mujadid of 6th century) Imam Tirmizi etc kafir/non-Muslim for believing that a prophet can come or the prophethood continues? If so why were they not declared kafir by a consensus of Ummah over centuries? Instead all of them are all revered personalities of Islam and some even accepted as mujadids (reformers) of their age by consensus.

You know nothing about What ibn Arabi and others said. Do read it yourself. please

do a little search before believing what your Murabis said please.

Do you know Imam Jilalduin who is also a mujadid (also in your list) and read what he think about Khaatam Nabiyeen Ayath and this concept

and also please do read what Ibn Arabi ACTUALLY SAID.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Ahmadis understand and follow Quraan and Sunnah better than any other sect!! Guaranteed! The problem is dishonesty on the part of their non-Ahmadis counterparts. For example there is NO evidence whatsoever of Jesus flying to sky (aasmaan) alive through space like Superman in whole of Quran and Ahadith but you guys sill insist on that. What can one do about it when you yourself do not follow Quraan and Sunnah?

Before becoming prophet
your OWN MGA prove from Quran that SAME Isa AS will come back. So if it is not in Quran then on what basis he Prove that??? and He write this in his so called Ilhami book.

Do not come up with old thing that He was saying what ordinary muslims believes
Question is if this have no base in Quran then How he prove it from Quran.

 

[Bret Hawk]

End of Prophethood Debate with another Perspective

I think its high time now to clear this misconception here on this thread in detail that what was the intentions and meanings of Shaikh Muhaiuddin Ibn Arabi in Fatuhat Makkiya, Shaikh Ahmed Sirhindi in Maktubaat Ahmadiyya and Shah Waliullah Muhadith of Delhi in Tafhimaat e Illahiya (who were by the way the Mujadiden of Islamic epoch in their respective times) which I’ve mentioned in my post # 24 of this thread. According to the selective readings of those citations it does prove the theory of Qadiyani cult at least to this point that “The finality of Prophethood of blessed Muhammad pbuh only means to be the end of the line of law giving / bearing Prophets, whereas Prophethood in its other manifestations and meanings will continue till the end of this world”.

 

[Meraypass]

Before becoming prophet
your OWN MGA prove from Quran that SAME Isa AS will come back. So if it is not in Quran then on what basis he Prove that??? and He write this in his so called Ilhami book.

So? According to Quran before becoming prophet Hazrat Ibarahim bowed to the star, then moon, then sun. This is shirk the worst of sins and one that Allah says He will not forgive but will forgive everything. Yet you consider Hazrat Ibrahim a prophet?

Point is even a prophet or a prophet to be only knows what Allah allows him and once Allah corrects him the prophet corrects himself.

There is a lot in spirituality that you need to know and even if you are honest, lack of such knowledge will make you falter.

Hazrat Promised Messiah's claim and its basis is now quite clear and it was made clear by himself. A person can correct himself as the example of Hazrat Ibrahim (as) shows.

Do not come up with old thing that He was saying what ordinary muslims believes

Perfectly good explanation. Like Hazrat Ibrahim (as) Promised Messiah (as) also picked up from his surroundings until Allah guided him like He did Hazrat Ibrahim as.

Question is if this have no base in Quran then How he prove it from Quran.

Like the rest of you did until Allah guided him to the true meanings. This again shows that only Allah can provide guidance and that is why prophethood was needed. This is what is explained in those Ahadith about 'Quran being raised' meaning that while Quran will remain, its meanings would be lost until Allah will again reveal the correct meanings through the Promised Messiah.

 

[Meraypass]

You know nothing about What ibn Arabi and others said. Do read it yourself. please

do a little search before believing what your Murabis said please.

Do you know Imam Jilalduin who is also a mujadid (also in your list) and read what he think about Khaatam Nabiyeen Ayath and this concept

and also please do read what Ibn Arabi ACTUALLY SAID.

I have told you what I think Ibn-e-Arabi said, now you tell us what you think and where are Ahmadis wrong? That is the purpose of this discussion. Even non-Ahmadi Mullahs accept that ibn-e-Arabi had the same view as Ahmadis and Ahmadis do not believe anything more. Do I need say more? Why don't you convince your own mullahs of otherwise before complaining to Ahmadis?

 

[Meraypass]

You know nothing about What ibn Arabi and others said. Do read it yourself. please

do a little search before believing what your Murabis said please.

Do you know Imam Jilalduin who is also a mujadid (also in your list) and read what he think about Khaatam Nabiyeen Ayath and this concept

and also please do read what Ibn Arabi ACTUALLY SAID.

This is what Ghamdi thinks Ibn-e-Arabui said and he admits that Ahmadis do not believe anything more than that. Now Ghamdi is not Ahmadi, so why are you upset with Ahmadis for? Watch from 3:50;

 

[Meraypass]

Re: End of Prophethood Debate with another Perspective

it does prove the point at least to this point that “The finality of Prophethood of blessed Muhammad pbuh only mean to be the end of the line of law giving / bearing Prophets, whereas Prophethood in its other manifestations and meanings will continue till the end of this world”.

And that is all Ahmadis say , no more. You can stop killing Ahmadis now.

 

[Meraypass]

y oh y ? do we keep asking what we already know ?? why cant they just be accepted as Non muslims and we move on ??

Because you need a reason to call someone non-Muslim and a very good one. Ahmadis have the same views as many prominent scholars and mujadids had so Ahmadis can not be declared non-Muslim on the basis of those beliefs without declaring such scholars and mujadids non-Muslim too. That's the crunch.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: End of Prophethood Debate with another Perspective

I think its high time now to clear this misconception here on this thread in detail that what was the intentions and meanings of Shaikh Muhaiuddin Ibn Arabi in Fatuhat Makkiya, Shaikh Ahmed Sirhindi in Maktubaat Ahmadiyya and Shah Waliullah Muhadith of Delhi in Tafhimaat e Illahiya (who were by the way the Mujadiden of Islamic epoch in their respective times) which Ive mentioned in my post # 24 of this thread. According to the selective readings of those citations it does prove the point of Qadiyani cult at least to this point that The finality of Prophethood of blessed Muhammad pbuh only mean to be the end of the line of law giving / bearing Prophets, whereas Prophethood in its other manifestations and meanings will continue till the end of this world.

It is very easy to provide a whole pdf file discussing this issue but

I want others special Qadiyanis to research on it. and comeup with what they find.

To strat with i am quoting something that will show what actually He said
"Allah allowed a part of Nubuwwah to remain with them, such as receiving inspiration through true visions" and that is what all Muslim believe as it is also exactly what Hadith said.
So ibn Arabi did not believe or said anything that prove Muslims stance wrong.

So please do some search on it.

 

[Meraypass]

Do you know Imam Jilalduin who is also a mujadid (also in your list) and read what he think about Khaatam Nabiyeen Ayath and this concept

Which list? Did he declare all scholars who believe prophets can come as non-Muslims? If not what is your point?

and also please do read what Ibn Arabi ACTUALLY SAID.

I would like to hear your opinion on what he said. After all you seem to be so sure that he did not say what seems to be saying.

While you are at clearing up the position of Ibn-e-Atrabi can you also clarify the position of these scholars at the same time?


Maulana Qasim Nanutwi, Founder Darul Aloom Deoband (and obviously his students too) and others; Watch from 2:36

Mujaddid Alfe Saani, Hazrat Shaikh Ahmad Farooqi Sarhindi:

Following the advent of the Khatmur-Rosul, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (peace and blessings of Allah be on him), the attainment of prophethood by one of his followers, as a subordinate and in service of the Holy Prophet, will in no way offend or be in conflict with his status as Khaatamur-Rosul. No doubts need be entertained in this regard.
(Makoobat vol. 1 Maktoob 301 pg. 432)

Hazrat Shah Waliullah Dehlavi, Mujaddid (reformer) of the 12th Century:

The end of prophethood with the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) only means that there can now be no prophet for the people who will bring or introduce a new Shariah.
(Tafhimate- ilahiyyah vol. 2 pg. 72-73)

Brelvi scholar Maulavi Abu Al Hasnat Abdul Haye of Farangimahal, Lucknow:

The advent of a mere prophet after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) or in his lifetime is not an impossibility. To introduce a new law is indeed not permissible.
(Dafiul-Waswas 2nd edition page 16)

and

Ulema Ahle-Sunnat also subscribe to the view that following the advent of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) no law-bearing prophet can come. The prophethood of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) is wide in scope. Any prophet who would now come would be from the Ummah and follow his Shariah.
(Majmuah Fatwa Maulvi Abdul Haye vol. 1 pg. 17)

Al-Tirmizi (died 308 A-H.):

The notion that the term ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’ signifies that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was the last prophet is erroneous. What glory and majesty is there in being the last? What wisdom underlies this interpretation? It is an interpretation put forth by the imbeciles and the illiterates.
(Khatam- Alauliya pg. 341)

 

[Raaz]

Why do you non-Ahmadis keep repeating this big lie and have made up your own religion, completely ignoring the Islamic scholarship of 1400 years? Are those prominent, established and recognised mujadids like Ibn-e-Arabi (mujadid of 6th century) Imam Tirmizi etc kafir/non-Muslim for believing that a prophet can come or the prophethood continues? If so why were they not declared kafir by a consensus of Ummah over centuries? Instead all of them are all revered personalities of Islam and some even accepted as mujadids (reformers) of their age by consensus.

Merry Christmas To All Qadyanies for 2 times.

Because u believe Mirza was Masih Mauud.

May be another prophet is coming soon in Qadyanees. Because they believe that Naboot will continue.

 

[biomat]

Assalam-o-alaikum
Raaz bhai, u got me on Marry Christmas to Qadiyanis.. How u know about it... :-):)

 

[Meraypass]

Re: End of Prophethood Debate with another Perspective

It is very easy to provide a whole pdf file discussing this issue but

I want others special Qadiyanis to research on it. and comeup with what they find.

To strat with i am quoting something that will show what actually He said
"Allah allowed a part of Nubuwwah to remain with them, such as receiving inspiration through true visions" and that is what all Muslim believe as it is also exactly what Hadith said.
So ibn Arabi did not believe or said anything that prove Muslims stance wrong.

So please do some search on it.

Its quite obvious you are avoiding the issue. If you had anything to say you would have said it here. The few words you mentioned without any clear context are quite vague and do not contradict what I or Ghamdi said about Ibn-e-Arabi above. Not convincing by a long shot.