Why India will fail against Pakistan

[Umar_LA]

so now zeus is ur god, and who told you that , any ways
regarding the txt you quoted
<<"the sun physically sets into a Muddy spring on Earth." >>

u r now speaking out of context, it is mentioned that "it appeared to him that the sun is sinking in muddy water" just like on the beach it looks like the Sun is sinking in the ocean

if you want to be guided the Quran will guide you to the right path, but intentionally if you wish to remain astray than the Quran will let you.

now all you need is honesty in your heart,

a short video I hope this will help you

 

[Abu Abdul Samad Khan]

When it comes to discussions with people I never misbehaved and never attacked anyone or abused anyone personally.

But when it comes to insulting ideas such as Communism, Fascism, Hindutva, Ahmedism, Islam etc etc... People have a right to do that.

Unless you want to create an authoritarian society like China where everyone agrees and no one has a right to challenge those in power. That is the position Islam has attained in some societies and is one of the reason why those societies are suffering.

What we are witnessing is an extremist worst than hindu tva or isis. He thinks he has right to insult any religion or idea which according to him is not according to his logic.

Mr you attack our identity and then expect respect. You are worst fanatic and from ur reply we can imagine ur state of mind and how violent you can be to force your thinking. In two words ....you are sick

Truth is reletive , I can tolerate ur version of truth but you..... Really a sick mind

 

[Vitamin_C]

He thinks he has right to insult any religion or idea which according to him is not according to his logic.

All ideas should be open to criticism and insults whether they are logical or not. Especially ideas that are connected to power in a society. If people were not allowed to criticize the Church in Medieval Europe then the industrial revolution and enlightenment probably would have never happened in Europe.

Everyone finds their own religion as important as you do. To you its Islam to Christians its Christianity and to Hindus its Hinduism. Muhammad himself had to criticize and insult other's religion to spread his own, he broke all the idols in the Kaabah and Abu Bakr even used bad language to describe the genitals of a female Goddess named Al-Lat. So grow a pair of balls and grow up and have the courage to accept criticism of beliefs that you hold.

 

[Abu Abdul Samad Khan]

All ideas should be open to criticism and insults whether they are logical or not. Especially ideas that are connected to power in a society. If people were not allowed to criticize the Church in Medieval Europe then the industrial revolution and enlightenment probably would have never happened in Europe.

Everyone finds their own religion as important as you do. To you its Islam to Christians its Christianity and to Hindus its Hinduism. Muhammad himself had to criticize and insult other's religion to spread his own, he broke all the idols in the Kaabah and Abu Bakr even used bad language to describe the genitals of a female Goddess named Al-Lat. So grow a pair of balls and grow up and have the courage to accept criticism of beliefs that you hold.

You are not worthy of discussion. Learn manners and respect and also grow up

 

[Vitamin_C]

You are not worthy of discussion. Learn manners and respect and also grow up

How do you plan on having a discussion with anyone when you are not even open to have your beliefs challenged or criticized? Discussions are only done with open minded people who can listen to different ideas without getting emotional or offended.

 

[Jaanbaazkarachi]

How do you plan on having a discussion with anyone when you are not even open to have your beliefs challenged or criticized? Discussions are only done with open minded people who can listen to different ideas without getting emotional or offended.

You are right, one question in between about your opinion regarding current strength of Pak forces, do you think Pakistani forces got much better after 1971 and India will not have an easy war if its happen in future?

 

[Umar_LA]

All ideas should be open to criticism and insults whether they are logical or not. Especially ideas that are connected to power in a society. If people were not allowed to criticize the Church in Medieval Europe then the industrial revolution and enlightenment probably would have never happened in Europe.

Everyone finds their own religion as important as you do. To you its Islam to Christians its Christianity and to Hindus its Hinduism. Muhammad himself had to criticize and insult other's religion to spread his own, he broke all the idols in the Kaabah and Abu Bakr even used bad language to describe the genitals of a female Goddess named Al-Lat. So grow a pair of balls and grow up and have the courage to accept criticism of beliefs that you hold.

so now zeus is ur god, and who told you that , any ways
regarding the txt you quoted
<<"the sun physically sets into a Muddy spring on Earth." >>

u r now speaking out of context, it is mentioned that "it appeared to him that the sun is sinking in muddy water" just like on the beach it looks like the Sun is sinking in the ocean

if you want to be guided the Quran will guide you to the right path, but intentionally if you wish to remain astray than the Quran will let you.

now all you need is honesty in your heart,

a short video I hope this will help you

 

[Khair Andesh]

these Pakistanis think Allah will send angels to aid them. This mentality has cost Pakistan to lose in Kashmir both militarily and politically.

پہلے ہمارے پاس صرف نور جہاں کے نغمے تھے، اب تو ارطغرل غازی کا ڈرامہ بھی ہے، پھر بھلا کیا چیز خدا کی نصرت کےنزول میں مانع ہو گی؟
وقتی طور پر کشمیر پر جو موقف کمزور ہوا ہے، وہ جہادسے روگردانی کی وجہ سے ہے۔البتہ قابل اطمینان بات یہ ہے کہ مسلمان کسی بھی وقت جہاد کی طرف رجوع کر سکتے ہیں۔​

 

[Vitamin_C]

You are right, one question in between about your opinion regarding current strength of Pak forces, do you think Pakistani forces got much better after 1971 and India will not have an easy war if its happen in future?

Pakistani forces were almost non existent in East Pakistan. The West Pakistan leadership had left East Pakistan Virtually undefended, the air-force on East Front was negligible and only a handful of working tanks. Only foot soldiers who were there to keep check over the populace or fight insurgents but unable to fight a war on the border without the heavy equipment.

Pakistan has the advantage of terrain in most region, mangrove swamps and Thar desert in south and mountains between Gilgit Baltistan and Kargil. The only region where India can launch an invasion is the plains of Punjab. Here Pakistan has the advantage that most of the population centers are close to the Borders like Sialkot and Lahore, historically we can mobilize faster than India and this is how we win the early battles in all the wars.

But when the elephant wakes up and their mobilization is complete, in a total war scenario there is no hope for Pakistan, not in 1965, not in 1999 and today is probably worse due to fast growth of Indian Military in last 15 years.

On the brightside there is no serious threat of Indian invasion of Pakistan, according to CIA documents. Just because India can invade Pakistan doesn't mean it should, it will by a pyrrhic victory with heavy losses. India is happy to maintain the status-quo as long as there is no terrorism from Pakistan side, Pakistan poses no conventional threat to them in Kashmir. They are more worried about an increasingly aggressive China which has been growing faster militarily than India in last 15 years.

 

[Vitamin_C]

u r now speaking out of context, it is mentioned that "it appeared to him that the sun is sinking in muddy water" just like on the beach it looks like the Sun is sinking in the ocean

No that's wrong translation made by modern Indian scholars.

All the original Tafsirs including Tabari translate it as he literally found it setting into a muddy hammam and even gave the names of the hammams.

Also to put a nail of the coffin Muhammad himself believed the sun sets into a muddy spring as there is a Sahih hadith mentioning it.

Show me a single tafsir of that verse from time of Muhammad to 400 years after his death which says it appeared to him. Quran is very clear it says Zulqarnain "found it setting in the muddy spring" not "appeared to him".

This is what I was talking about dishonest misinterpretations of the Quran by modern scholars changing tafsirs and translations at will even when they directly contradict with original tafsirs and Sahih Hadith.

 

[Vitamin_C]

u r now speaking out of context, it is mentioned that "it appeared to him that the sun is sinking in muddy water" just like on the beach it looks like the Sun is sinking in the ocean

When Quran says something appeared to someone but didnt really happen such as crucifiction of Hazrat Isa it uses the phrase "Wala Kyn Shuby Alahum" meaning it appeared to them as.

But in Surah Kahf, it did not use that phrase but uses the word "Wajada" meaning "found it". This word is used dozens of times in Quran, I challenge you to find a single instance of the use of this word in Quran where it is trying to describe something that appeared to have happened.

To drive the point home, the word "Wajada" is used twice in that same verse. Zhulqarnain traveled to setting place of the sun where he found (wajada) it setting in a muddy spring. And he found (Wajada) a people and Allah commanded him to rule over them."

So looking at the whole context of the verse, Quran used same word to describe the sun setting into muddy spring and the people. So did Allah ask Zhulqarnain to rule over a people that just appeared to him but didn't actually exist?

For your point of view to be true we have to believe in these things:
1. Nouman Ali Khan carries more weight than Sahi Hadith and sayings or Prophet himself
2. Quran is inconsistent and contradicts itself
3. Both Allah and Zulqarnain were high and seeing things which werent actually there (the sun setting in the muddy spring and the people that live there)
4. All the major Arab Scholars of Original tafsirs that people have been following for over 1000 carry less weight than Indian scholars such as Mubarkmand and Nouman Ali Khan.

Ill tell you what is actually happening. Muslims are dishonest and fond of changing translations and tafsirs retrospectively when scientific discoveries are made that contradict with Quran. These Muslim scholars especially from Subcontinent hope that you are not going double check their claims and just believe them with your eyes closed.

 

[Umar_LA]

When Quran says something appeared to someone but didnt really happen such as crucifiction of Hazrat Isa it uses the phrase "Wala Kyn Shuby Alahum" meaning it appeared to them as.

But in Surah Kahf, it did not use that phrase but uses the word "Wajada" meaning "found it". This word is used dozens of times in Quran, I challenge you to find a single instance of the use of this word in Quran where it is trying to describe something that appeared to have happened.

To drive the point home, the word "Wajada" is used twice in that same verse. Zhulqarnain traveled to setting place of the sun where he found (wajada) it setting in a muddy spring. And he found (Wajada) a people and Allah commanded him to rule over them."

So looking at the whole context of the verse, Quran used same word to describe the sun setting into muddy spring and the people. So did Allah ask Zhulqarnain to rule over a people that just appeared to him but didn't actually exist?

For your point of view to be true we have to believe in these things:
1. Nouman Ali Khan carries more weight than Sahi Hadith and sayings or Prophet himself
2. Quran is inconsistent and contradicts itself
3. Both Allah and Zulqarnain were high and seeing things which werent actually there (the sun setting in the muddy spring and the people that live there)
4. All the major Arab Scholars of Original tafsirs that people have been following for over 1000 carry less weight than Indian scholars such as Mubarkmand and Nouman Ali Khan.

Ill tell you what is actually happening. Muslims are dishonest and fond of changing translations and tafsirs retrospectively when scientific discoveries are made that contradict with Quran. These Muslim scholars especially from Subcontinent hope that you are not going double check their claims and just believe them with your eyes closed.

thats the problem with you, so take one example, quote out of context, and start the propaganda....


Islam shows so many miracles that were impossible to prove at that time, like a baby in the womb, two types of water not mixing into each other, and so many mathematical miracles , linguist miracles, so if you take this literally why don't you accept the rest.

Quran says iron come from outside the earth, light comes from moon is reflected light, Quran even talks about earth movement that were immposible to know 1500 years ago. you think Quran will says literally sun sets in the water in literal meaning

i can go on and on and you are concerned for a linguist issue well anyways Quran have an answer for your kind of issues

Quran 3:7
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muḥammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific.1 As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

and even if you are not convinced then

For you is your faith, and for me, my faith.”

once again just a two-minute video. please check.

 

[Vitamin_C]

thats the problem with you, so take one example, quote out of context, and start the propaganda....


Islam shows so many miracles that were impossible to prove at that time, like a baby in the womb, two types of water not mixing into each other, and so many mathematical miracles , linguist miracles, so if you take this literally why don't you accept the rest.

Quran says iron come from outside the earth, light comes from moon is reflected light, Quran even talks about earth movement that were immposible to know 1500 years ago. you think Quran will says literally sun sets in the water in literal meaning

i can go on and on and you are concerned for a linguist issue well anyways Quran have an answer for your kind of issues

Quran 3:7
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muḥammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific.1 As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

and even if you are not convinced then

For you is your faith, and for me, my faith.”

once again just a two-minute video. please check.

Dont deviate from the topic please. We are discussing Surah Kahf and you said that I am quoting it out of context.

I gave you the entire context and the Arabic word used in the Quran "Wajada". I also said that word is used twice in the same verse to describe the people that Zulqarnain found and the sun he found setting in a muddy spring.

If you say that I am out of context, can you show me how? The word "Wajada" is used several dozen times in Quran so it shouldn't be hard for you to find another instance in Quran where it is used to describe something that appeared as something which it is not.

Dont just throw blanket statements that I am quoting out of context without demonstrating how I am out of context.

Also you did not comment on the Sahih Hadith with which Noman Ali Khan is in complete contradiction. Are you going to take his word on this or Muhammad's word that the sun actually sets in a muddy spring?

 

[Vitamin_C]

two types of water not mixing into each other

Have you heard of the term "Brackish Water" that arises in natural environment when salt water mixes with fresh water?

You sound like me when I used to regurgitate what Islamic scholars told me without researching on my own if those things are true or not.

They are dishonest and they lie to you. Do your own research before you accept their claims.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Quran says iron come from outside the earth

What's special about that? People knew well before 7th century AD that Iron comes from outer space.

For example, Ancient Egyptians knew this 1900 years before Islam. Egyptians word for Iron was ba-en-pet meaning "Iron from Heaven". This applied to all Metallic Iron in Egyptian language. So does this mean you should worship Egyptian God Ra because they knew Iron comes from the sky, 1900 years before Muhammad did?

 

[Vitamin_C]

like a baby in the womb

Greek Physician physician Hippocrates wrote about this is great detail 1000 years before Quran.

Most of the schools of medicine in middle east during the time of Muhammad was teaching Galen's embryology and medicine. Galen learned this from the works of Hippocrates.

The Qurans passage on Embryology is word for word copy of Galen. It even copies the mistakes of Galen, such as bones forming first and then muscles being clothed around after. This has since been proven wrong since bones and muscle are formed at same time.

The point is, this knowledge was already available 1000 years before Muhammad.

 

[Vitamin_C]

light comes from moon is reflected light

In Arabic language Noor does not mean reflected light. It just means light.

I have referenced below all the verses in the Quran that uses the word "Noor" or "Munir" it appears about 39 times in Quran.

(2:17, 2:257, 3:184, 4:174, 5:15, 5:16, 5:44, 5:46, 6:1, 6:91, 6:122, 7:157, 9:32, 10:5, 13:16, 14:1, 14:5, 22:8, 24:35, 24:40, 25:61, 31:20, 33:43, 33:46, 35:20, 35:25, 39:22, 39:69, 42:52, 57:9, 57:12, 57:13, 57:19, 57:28, 61:8, 64:8, 65:11, 66:8, 71:16)

I challenge you or anyone reading this to find a single verse where Quran uses the word Noor or Munir to clearly refer to borrowed light.

Lets use your definition of the word Noor as reflected light see if it makes sense in some of the verses in Quran.

Quran 2:257
Allah is the Guardian of those who believe, and brings them out of the darkness into the (reflected) light"

Quran 9:32
They desire to put out the (reflected) light of Allah with their mouths.

Quran 24:35
Allah is the (reflected) light of the heavens and the Earth.

(Chapter 24 of Quran is also called Surah Noor, show me any Quran that calls Surah Noor as Borrowed or Reflected light)

On top of all this 75:8 says the moon will lose its light on judgement day. That verse will make no sense you are saying that moon does not have light to start with. (Surah Qayama)

None of the major Sunni Tafsirs say that Moon has borrowed or reflected light.

Tafsirs
Ibn Kathir http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?t...
Al-Tabari http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?t...
Jalalayn http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?t...
Tanwir al-Miqbas http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?t...

If you cannot understand Arabic then you can google the english versions of Tafsir. But ill save you the headache. None of the Tafsirs translate Noor as borrowed light, it just calls it light.

And even if we buy this argument (which we should not), Aristarchus of Samos knew the moon was reflecting the suns light nearly 1000 years before Muhammad.

Does it not make you angry that you are being blatantly lied to by frauds like Zakir Naik who are trying to pull wool infront of your eyes?

 

[Vitamin_C]

Quran even talks about earth movement that were immposible to know 1500 years ago

You are referring to Surah Anbiya 21:33 that says sun and the moon traveling in their orbits in their own motion. (According to Zakir Naik)

I have read all the tafsirs of that verse and not a single one says sun rotates on its own axis.

Im not going into detail about it in this post but after reading the whole Quran in context, it is clearly based on Geo-Centric model meaning Earth is center of universe and everything, including sun and moon revolve around it.

Here again Zakir Naik is lying about the Arabic translation.

Here is a video of the top Saudi Mufti who explains the actual movement of the Earth and Sun according to Quran.

I have also quoted the verse from Surah Kahf regarding Zulqarnain which says sun revolves around Earth until it reaches its resting place under the throne and waits for Allah's permission to rise again. This is clearly referring to a geo-centric model which has been proven false by science. Earth revolves around the Sun and not the other way around.

 

[Vitamin_C]

i can go on and on and you are concerned for a linguist issue well anyways Quran have an answer for your kind of issues

Please go on. I have been searching for last 10 years for answers to this and no one is able to provide it.

The pattern that I am seeing is that you are following dishonest scholars from India and Pakistan who openly lie about translations of Quran.

I have quoted you actual translations and tafsirs so if you think I am wrong it will be easy for you to prove but I have been honest with you and answered with reference from Quran, Hadith and authentic Tafsirs.

For future reference, whatever you hear from the mouth of the womanizer Nouman Ali Khan and Fraudia Naik, do double check by yourself and see if they are lying or telling the truth.

 

[Umar_LA]

Dont deviate from the topic please. We are discussing Surah Kahf and you said that I am quoting it out of context.

I gave you the entire context and the Arabic word used in the Quran "Wajada". I also said that word is used twice in the same verse to describe the people that Zulqarnain found and the sun he found setting in a muddy spring.

If you say that I am out of context, can you show me how? The word "Wajada" is used several dozen times in Quran so it shouldn't be hard for you to find another instance in Quran where it is used to describe something that appeared as something which it is not.

Dont just throw blanket statements that I am quoting out of context without demonstrating how I am out of context.

Also you did not comment on the Sahih Hadith with which Noman Ali Khan is in complete contradiction. Are you going to take his word on this or Muhammad's word that the sun actually sets in a muddy spring?

you have an agenda to fulfil in that case i cannot help you. you don't want to understand the linguistic part intentionally ... Read the verse again Quran 3:7 i quoted earlier, this will give you all the answers