SUFI MUSIC ----- Whats the reality?

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, Do not use Irrelvant little girls singing Hadith to justify dancing of your sufi cult

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.

Cheeko, Do not fool around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

I have already replied. Read again.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. It is a difference of opinion between me and you but certainly my intention is not to misguide anyone. What about the other Hadees. What about the views of all the other Ulema whom I quoted regarding raqs and wajad.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy with your old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajad" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

You could not yet answer my question that "why you quoted an irrelevant Hadeeth which does not justify so-called "wajad" of your sufi cult".

Anyway, lets come to the next Hadith you quoted to justify the dancing and singing of your sufi cult.

You quoted:

[Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol.7 Hadith No.5147]

Narrated Ar Rabi (the daughter of Muawwidh bin Afra):

“After the consummation of my marriage, the Prophet came and sat on my bed as far from me as you are sitting now, and our little girls started beating the tambourines (daff) and reciting elegiac verses mourning my father, who had been killed in the battle of Badr. One of them said, ‘Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow.’ On that the Prophet said, ‘Leave this (saying) and keep on saying the verses which you had been saying before.’

Now Watch following two video and compare:

Video#1: Little girls are singing with daff music in the background. Keep in mind that according to hadith, the occasion was marriage cermony.:

Video#2: Very old members of Sufi cult are dancing with a background modern Music. The occasion is a religious gathering of Sufi cult.

Now tell me how you dare to present a irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult. The hadith can maximum justify singing (not even dancing) of little girls with daff in a non-religious activity. The important point to be taken from this hadith is that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh prohibited, even little girls, to say that "Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow". I do not want to discuss the issue of ilm-ul-ghaib at this time because you may divert the topic.

With this hadith how can you justify dancing of old sufi cult members in a religious gathering. You sufis are again and again using irrelevant verses and irrelevant Hadeeth to justy your cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadith to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

If you do not have any logical answer just say that you are blindly following your Peer and if somebody cross-question your believe you search for any material which can barely justify your cult. You are doing things way. The correct way is to follow Quraan and Sunnah and check your Peers believe through Quraan and Authentic hadith. Do not accept anything from your Peer which is against Quraan and sunnah.

 

[basim973]

Thats your view but a wrong view certainly. Music for good purpose is allowed and every one agrees with that. The debate currently is that which purpose can be said good.

By everyone you mean, cheeko and cheeko and cheeko and cheeko............

 

[basim973]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

Well even tawaf is a pre-Islamic culture. But that ritual has been modified and legalised. You are just not trying to read and are continuing your dirty najdi twist. I have already answered regarding Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. and it is obvious that the pain and hate in you has made you blind and mad. You arent even reading what I told. You are mixing qawali and this Hadees. Qawali is musical form of Hamd and Naat and Zikr. This creates an aura of ecstasy called wajad.

Why donot you answer the question? Its easy to accept the mistake and correct rather than being in liars and getting punished in hereafter.

 

[basim973]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

Stop it. Do'nt spread hatred on this forum. I object strongly and demand from admin of Siasatpk to close this and similar threads permanently.

Stop why because you cant defend the fake and crafted concept any more or your lame lies are too many to defend any further?

 

[basim973]

Re: Cheeko , Do not Quote out of context hadith

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.


He [rah] states in his Ihya uloom ud din , vol 2, Pg 179

لأدب الرابع‏:‏ أن لا يقوم ولا يرفع صوته بالبكاء وهو يقدر على ضبط نفسه ولكن إن رقص أو تباكى فهو مباح فيجوز تحريكه‏.‏
ولو كان ذلك حراماً لما نظرت عائشة رضي الله عنها إلى الحبشة مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وهم يزفنون هذا لفظ عائشة رضي الله عنها في بعض الروايات‏.‏
وقد روي عن جماعة من الصحابة رضي الله عنهم أنهم حجلوا لما ورد عليهم سرور أوجب ذلك وذلك في قصة ابنة حمزة لما اختصم فيها على بن أبي طالب وأخوه جعفر وزيد بن حارثة رضي الله عنهم فتشاحوا في تربيتها فقال صلى الله عليه وسلم لعلي ‏‏ أنت مني وأنا منك ‏‏ فحجل علي وقال لجعفر ‏‏ أشبهت خلقي وخلقي ‏‏ فحجل وراء حجل علي وقال لزيد ‏‏ أنت أخوناً ومولانا ‏‏ فحجل زيد وراء حجل جعفر ثم قال عليه السلام ‏‏ هي لجعفر لأن خالتها تحته والخالة والدة ‏‏ وفي رواية أنه قال لعائشة رضي الله عنها ‏‏ أتحبين أن تنظري إلى زفن الحبشة ‏‏ والزفن والحجل هو الرقص

Stop beating about the bushes and accept that u didnt understood what his question was........u had been doing the same in this forum for long.........from ur quoted hadith when I said that the sufi dream can also be from shitan.......you stared copy-pasting...........like wot u r doing right now..........is it really hard to accept the fault and repent................remember its shitan who argues and be stubborn even after the truth is clear............My Brother Cheeko please for Allah's sake stop the madness now and throwaway sufism.

 

[sngilani]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

Stop why because you cant defend the fake and crafted concept any more or your lame lies are too many to defend any further?

Do'nt spread extremist ideas, hatred and fundamentalistic ideology. Your mentality is to fight to prove your God is better God and all other muslims are wrong and Kafir. You are follower of radical ideology and trying to convince an extremist like you is useless.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, Do not use Irrelvant little girls singing Hadith to justify dancing of your sufi cult

Cheeko, I am still waiting for your answer!!!

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.

Cheeko, Do not fool around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, Who is he? They said, Abu Hurayrah (R.A) So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allahs Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it. He said, I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allahs Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allahs Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he. Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allahs Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him. Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, Allahs Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, Allahs Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

I have already replied. Read again.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. It is a difference of opinion between me and you but certainly my intention is not to misguide anyone. What about the other Hadees. What about the views of all the other Ulema whom I quoted regarding raqs and wajad.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy with your old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajad" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

You could not yet answer my question that "why you quoted an irrelevant Hadeeth which does not justify so-called "wajad" of your sufi cult".

Anyway, lets come to the next Hadith you quoted to justify the dancing and singing of your sufi cult.

You quoted:

[Sahih Al-Bukhari Vol.7 Hadith No.5147]

Narrated Ar Rabi (the daughter of Muawwidh bin Afra):

After the consummation of my marriage, the Prophet came and sat on my bed as far from me as you are sitting now, and our little girls started beating the tambourines (daff) and reciting elegiac verses mourning my father, who had been killed in the battle of Badr. One of them said, Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow. On that the Prophet said, Leave this (saying) and keep on saying the verses which you had been saying before.

Now Watch following two video and compare:

Video#1: Little girls are singing with daff music in the background. Keep in mind that according to hadith, the occasion was marriage cermony.:

Video#2: Very old members of Sufi cult are dancing with a background modern Music. The occasion is a religious gathering of Sufi cult.

Now tell me how you dare to present a irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult. The hadith can maximum justify singing (not even dancing) of little girls with daff in a non-religious activity. The important point to be taken from this hadith is that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh prohibited, even little girls, to say that "Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow". I do not want to discuss the issue of ilm-ul-ghaib at this time because you may divert the topic.

With this hadith how can you justify dancing of old sufi cult members in a religious gathering. You sufis are again and again using irrelevant verses and irrelevant Hadeeth to justy your cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadith to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

If you do not have any logical answer just say that you are blindly following your Peer and if somebody cross-question your believe you search for any material which can barely justify your cult. You are doing things way. The correct way is to follow Quraan and Sunnah and check your Peers believe through Quraan and Authentic hadith. Do not accept anything from your Peer which is against Quraan and sunnah.

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Cheeko, Do not use Irrelvant little girls singing Hadith to justify dancing of your sufi cult

You could not yet answer my question that "why you quoted an irrelevant Hadeeth which does not justify so-called "wajad" of your sufi cult".

Anyway, lets come to the next Hadith you quoted to justify the dancing and singing of your sufi cult.

You quoted:



Now Watch following two video and compare:

Video#1: Little girls are singing with daff music in the background. Keep in mind that according to hadith, the occasion was marriage cermony.:

Video#2: Very old members of Sufi cult are dancing with a background modern Music. The occasion is a religious gathering of Sufi cult.

Now tell me how you dare to present a irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult. The hadith can maximum justify singing (not even dancing) of little girls with daff in a non-religious activity. The important point to be taken from this hadith is that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh prohibited, even little girls, to say that "Among us is a Prophet who knows what will happen tomorrow". I do not want to discuss the issue of ilm-ul-ghaib at this time because you may divert the topic.

With this hadith how can you justify dancing of old sufi cult members in a religious gathering. You sufis are again and again using irrelevant verses and irrelevant Hadeeth to justy your cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadith to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

If you do not have any logical answer just say that you are blindly following your Peer and if somebody cross-question your believe you search for any material which can barely justify your cult. You are doing things way. The correct way is to follow Quraan and Sunnah and check your Peers believe through Quraan and Authentic hadith. Do not accept anything from your Peer which is against Quraan and sunnah.

I havent lied a bit but its just that your grasping calibre is really not good. The Hadees of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. that I told was as a documentary evidence for the state of wajad alone and not music.The second Hadees was to support my argument for singing. Although I think you are deliberately twisting the matter because your najdi lies are at stake but I will give you some leverage by saying that I had included the Hadees for raqs and music and wajad and raqs altogether thinking that you people will understand it but apart from you najdis I am sure that no one is so dumb as to not to understand and differentiate things. I should have separated it and should have known that your level of understanding is really very poor. I have been telling you time and again to read it again so read the third line of my post 336 again and I have increased the font size also for you to read it. In your typical najdi hate for Islam you want to misguide the people. I have clearly told that these are the hadees for raqs and singing and wajd collected altogether.

Still I will discuss both the Hadees one by one.


Hadees of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a

This is strictly for wajad purposes that I told and doesnt include music. Wajad or ecstacy means overpowering emotion characterized by loss of self-control and sometimes a of temporary loss consciousness and in that state one can lose his control and also go into a state of shock called psychogenic shock and become unconsciousness. Now in the event told in the Hadees it is clear that one person asks Hazrat Abu Huraira about a Hadees. Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a before telling the Hadees fell unconscious three times because of the intensity of his emotions that he had because of two reasons:

1) This was one of the Hadees that he had heard from the Last Messenger peace be upon him. The person asking specifically asked him this question and why not anyone would feel intensely joyous or emotional by telling any Hadees that one learned directly from him.

2) But most importantly in this Hadees it is told that Allah the exalted will come down himself on Qayamat which itself for a slave of Allah is a very joyous and emotional thing because on that day one will be in a very close company of Allah. Also the fear of that day for every believer is itself an emotional feeling.

Only if you would have attained some scientific education then would have you understood the simple reason why Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a fell unconscious temporarily three times. It was because of the intensity of the emotions and this is in other words called ecstacy or wajd.

Hadees of tambourine

I am clarifying again that this Hadees was not to tell about wajd but about permissibility of singing in festivities. This Hadees doesnt tell about any sort of wajd and nor did I meant this. You could have asked politely rather than misbehaving. Even a school going kid can differentiate these matters easily. Your behaviour itself reveals the dirty najdi nature of your molvi teachers.

For the raqs Hadees you have to read the Hadees which is for Raqs and going into wajd as told by me earlier.

 

[Cheeko]

For the permissibility of Raqs the Hadees are:


Hadith

حدّثنا عبد الله حدثني أبي، ثنا عبد الصمد قال: ثنا حماد ، عن ثابت ، عن أنس قال: كانت الحبشة يزفنون بين يدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم ويرقصون ويقولون: محمد عبد صالح ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: ما يقولون؟ قالوا: يقولون: محمد عبد صالح

It is narrated by Anas (R.A) that the Habashis were present in front of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and “THEY WERE DANCING (Yarqasun)”
and saying: Muhammadun Abdun Salih (i.e. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم the righteous slave). The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) asked: What are they saying? They said: Muhammadun Abdun Salih
,
[Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume No.3, Page no. 152]
,
Note : All narrators of this hadith are those of Sahih bukhari and muslim
,
Shu’yb al Aran’ut said after this hadith:
,
إسناده صحيح على شرط مسلم
,
The Chain is “SAHIH” on the criteria of “MUSLIM” [ibid]

Imam Nawawi (rah) on Above hadithsaid

with commentary by Muhammad Shirbini Khatib It is not prohibited to dance ((Shirbini ) which is not unlawful because it is only motions made while standing or bowing. Furani and others have expressly stated that neither is it offensive, but rather, is permissible, as is attested to by the hadith related in the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) stood before ‘A’isha (Allah be well pleased with her) to screen her from view so that she could observe the Abyssinians sporting and dancing) – unless it is languid, like the movements of the effeminate (Mughni al-muhtaj ila ma’rifa ma’ani alfaz al-Minhaj (y73), 4.430)


Imam Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami (Rah) on above Hadith said about above hadith

Beating the kuba is prohibited… but dancing isn’t, being neither prohibited nor offensive, because it is only motions made while standing or bowing, and further because he (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) consented to the Abyssinians doing so in his mosque on the day of Eid, as related by Bukhari and Muslim.

The bold text is from the Minhaj of Imam Nawawi while the rest is Ibn Hajar’s commentary [Tuhfa al-Muhtaj fi Sharh al-Minhaj]


,
Now how many other imams [rah] of Hadith used the word Raqs "Dance" although a Salaf is enough proof in this case but still

1": Imam Tabarani [rah] used the word Raqs [dancing] Reference: Hadith #3 on page 121, Volume 9

2: Imam Nisai [rah] in Sunan Al Kubra using the word Dance "RAQS"] in page # 309, Vol 5 with same Sahih chain and says

that the Abysinians were standing in front of the door of the Holy Prophet e’s house and were ‘ecstatically dancing’ or performing raqs on anticipation of seeing the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)

3: Imam Zamakshari also explained the same haditth with a Sahih chain calling it Raqs , And said Qala al zafaru Al Raqs The word in the hadith means Raqs

4: Imam Suyuti [rah] in[ Sharh Sahih Bukhari pg 123, Al hajl Al tawseeh] said " Al hajalo al raqs biha til maqstatin "

5: Imam Juhri [in kitab ul lugat pg 46] Says Al zafl wa Raqs
,6: Imam murtaza Zubaide [rah] in Taj us uloom kitbah ul lugat ] says " Zafana zasfun zafana ie. It Stands for Raqs [dance]

7: Imam Ibn Manzoor [in lisan ul arab, most authnetic book of lugat pg 135 ] says Al Zafl Al Raqs (i.e it means Raqs )

8: Imam Nawawi [rah] writes in sharh sahih muslim pg 347 says Mana hu yarqusoon (i.e they did Raqs)


9: Qadi Iyad [rah] said in [sarh sahih muslim pg 429 ] Al zabl hu wal raqs

So ijma of imams [rah] agreed its Raqs [dancing] what came from Sahih hadith including Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah] who was a salaf himself


Hadith


‘Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) states:

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَسْوَدُ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَامِرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْبَأَنَا ‏ ‏إِسْرَائِيلُ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هَانِئِ بْنِ هَانِئٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَلِيٍّ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَجَعْفَرٌ ‏ ‏وَزَيْدٌ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏فَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِزَيْدٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ ‏ ‏ مَوْلَايَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِجَعْفَرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ أَشْبَهْتَ خَلْقِي وَخُلُقِي قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏زَيْدٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ لِي أَنْتَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْكَ قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلْتُ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏جَعْفَرٍ

Aswad narrated to us that Isra’il informed us from Abi Is-haaq from Haani ibn Haani’ from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib that he said, “I visited the Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) with Ja’far [ibn Abī Tālib] and Zayd [ibn Harithah]. The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) said to Zayd, “You are my freedman (mawlā’i), whereupon Zayd began to Hajala (hop on one leg- a type of dancing) around the Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam). The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to Ja’far: “You resemble me in my physical form and character” (Khalqī wa Khuluqī), whereupon Ja’far began to do the same behind Zayd. The Nabi (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to me, “You are a part of me and I am a part of you” (anta minnī wa anā mink) whereupon I began to do the same behind Ja’far.”

References

►This is reported by Imām Ahmad in his Musnad (1:537 #857)2.

► Ash-Shākir declared it authentic in his review of the Musnad.

► Al-Bazzār in his Musnad with a sound chain according to Imām Al-Haythamī in his Majma’ Az-Zawā’id (5:157).

►Also reported by Imām Al-Bayhaqī in his Sunan Al-Kubrā (8:6 #15548, 20816)

►as well as Ibn Abī Shaybah in his Musannaf.

►Ibn Sa’ad reported this in Mursal form in his Tabaqāt, 4:22.




Authenticity of Above Hadith

Regarding one narrator Hani bin Hani who some ignorants use to prove above hadith weak

Imam Dhahabi (rah) said in full in his Meezan,

هانئ بن هانئ عن على رضى الله عنه. قال ابن المدينى: مجهول. وقال النسائي: ليس به بأس. وذكره ابن حبان في الثقات

Translation: Hani bin Hani narrated from Ali (Radhi Allaho Anho). Ibn Mudayni said he is Majhool. Imam Nasai (rah) said: “THERE IS NO HARM IN HIM” and Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his “THIQAAT (Reliable narrators)” [Mizan ul Aitidal (7/71)]


Imam Tirimdhi declared many ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “HASAN SAHIH” [SunnanTirimdhi Volume No.5, Hadith #3798]

Imam Ibn Majah (rah) narrated from him and did Sukoot [Sunnan Ibn Majah, Muqadma, Hadith # 143]

Imam Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his Kitab ul Thiqaat (5/508)

Muhadith Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir in his Tahqiq of Musnad Ahmad where he said: “Its chain is sound (إسناده صحيح)“ [Musnad Ahmad Volume 001, Page No. 537, Hadith Number 857, FN: 2]

Imam Ibn Hajr al Haythami (rah) said about ahadith having Hani bin Hani

ورجال أحمد والبزار رجال الصحيح غير هانىء بن هانىء وهو ثقة

Translation: The Rijaal of Ahmed and Bazaar are those of Sahih except Hani bin Hani who is “THIQA” [Majma az Zawaid (8/102)]

Imam Hakim declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Mustadrak al Hakim (3/179)]



Imam al Ajli (rah) said:

1885 ـ هانىء ابن هانىء، كوفي، تابعي ثقة.

Translation: Hani bin Hani, Kufi “TABI AND THIQA” [Thiqat al Ajli Volume No.1, Page No. 454]

Even famous and controversial Wahabi[salafi ] sheikh Nasir ud-din Albani declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Sahih Sunnan Ibn Majah by Albani, (1/119)

Scanned page of above hadith from Musnad of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah]

Also


Imam Baihaqi (rah) proves Raqs from this hadith

Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Hajr Haythami (rah) said: “All narrators are those of Sahih (رجاله رجال الصحيح)“ [Majma’ Az-Zawa’id, Volume 005, Page No. 157]


Imam Bayhaqi made a whole chapter on permissibility of Raqs and after citing this hadith he said: In this (hadith) is“SAHIH PROOF” and "PERMISSIBILITY" of hoping (dancing) which includes “RISING UP OR JUMPING IN STATE OF JOY” and also that of doing “RAQS” which is similar to it [Sunnan al Baihaqi al Kubra (15/333)]

Imam Bayhaqi also states in Shu’yb ul Imaan:

وأما الرقص فإن لم يكن فيه تكسر وتخنث فلا بأس فإنه روي أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
قال لزيد أنت مولانا فحجل وهو أن يرفع رجلا ويقفز إلى الأخرى من

الفرح وقال لجعفر أشبهت خلقي وخلقي فحجل

Translation: As regarding “Raqs” If it does not include going wild and one does not act like the women then “THERE IS NO HARM IN IT” as the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said to Zayd (ra): You are my freedman (anta Mawlay), at this Zayd began to hop on one leg (hajala) around the Prophet (Peace be upon him), and he did this in joy, then the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said to Jafar (ra): You resemble me in my creation and my manners, at this Jafar also began to hop behind Zayd [Shu’yb ul Imaan, Volume No.4, Page No. 483-484]




Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani (rah) said : “Yes! Verily Ja’far ibn Abi Taalib Radhiya Allahu ‘Anhu did raqsin the presence of Rasulullah when he told Ja’far ‘You resemble me in my created form and in my character.’ It would have been necessary for the Nabi (alayhis salaam) to clarify whether it was halaal or haraam, yet the Nabi (’alayhis salaam) did not reject it. This is known in Mustalah Al-Hadith as “Iqraar“, or the acceptance and approval of the Prophet Muhammad . And the Nabi (’alayhis salaam) would not have remained silent regarding the Haraam (forbidden) or the Makruh (hated).”

Reference

► Shaykh Yusuf Khattaar Muhammad references As-Suyuti’s quote from As-Sayf Al-Qaati’ and also Al-Ilhamaat Al-Ilhiyah of Shaykh Mahmuh Abi Shaamaat; See the Maws’uah page 185 published in Damascus in 1999, third edition

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Cheeko , Do not Quote out of context hadith

Stop beating about the bushes and accept that u didnt understood what his question was........u had been doing the same in this forum for long.........from ur quoted hadith when I said that the sufi dream can also be from shitan.......you stared copy-pasting...........like wot u r doing right now..........is it really hard to accept the fault and repent................remember its shitan who argues and be stubborn even after the truth is clear............My Brother Cheeko please for Allah's sake stop the madness now and throwaway sufism.

Stop beating about the bushes and accept that u didnt understood what my answer in post 336 was........u had been doing the same in this forum for long.........from you najdi Tousif Rahman and Zubair and then declaring Iqbal a heretic.......you stared crying...........like wot u r doing right now..........is it really hard to accept the fault and repent................remember its shitan who argues and be stubborn even after the truth is clear............My Brother Basim please for Allah's sake stop the madness now and throw away najdism

 

[Cheeko]

By everyone you mean, cheeko and cheeko and cheeko and cheeko............

Incase you dont know that music and raqs is also allowed and performed by najdis and not just cheeko alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC4hdjEXHm0&feature=related

Also if you didnt hear their national anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlmSzfHmk0

This is the country in which your beloved Tousif ur Rahman lives and preaches hatred.

 

[basim973]

Re: Cheeko , Do not Quote out of context hadith

Stop beating about the bushes and accept that u didnt understood what my answer in post 336 was........u had been doing the same in this forum for long.........from you najdi Tousif Rahman and Zubair and then declaring Iqbal a heretic.......you stared crying...........like wot u r doing right now..........is it really hard to accept the fault and repent................remember its shitan who argues and be stubborn even after the truth is clear............My Brother Basim please for Allah's sake stop the madness now and throw away najdism

Do i need to tell you the joke of a man selling caps happened to pass through a jungle and there were many monkeys who took his caps one each while he was sleep..............u know how that man got the cap back..............

Now tell me and the forum what is the association of this joke with your post and what i am on abt?

You can get the simple questions asked by brother Pakistan1947 and beating about the bushes, here is a little exercise for your mind........so that you answer then questions.

 

[basim973]

Incase you dont know that music and raqs is also allowed and performed by najdis and not just cheeko alone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC4hdjEXHm0&feature=related

Also if you didnt hear their national anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlmSzfHmk0

This is the country in which your beloved Tousif ur Rahman lives and preaches hatred.

R u in one of those who made every haram and markoo thing halal by holding weak associations to some little innocent events like playing duff by little girls.........donot waiste your talent here and there answer pakistan1947 of you have guts.

 

[basim973]

Re: Quraan 8:35 ان کی نماز سوائے سیٹیاں اور تالیاں بجان&am

Do'nt spread extremist ideas, hatred and fundamentalistic ideology. Your mentality is to fight to prove your God is better God and all other muslims are wrong and Kafir. You are follower of radical ideology and trying to convince an extremist like you is useless.

this post implies.............Your are speechless borrow some words from cheeko, he is good at copy-paste, he ll teach you.........

 

[Cheeko]

Basim dont show your ignorance and hatred repeatedly. Since the arrival of najdism our beloved Pakistan has been turned into an extremist base. I have already replied each and every thing. Dont waste my time and talent by your useless and hate filled posts.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, Do not use Abu Huraira r.a. Hadith to justify "wajad" of your sufi cult

Hadees of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a

This is strictly for wajad purposes that I told and doesnt include music. Wajad or ecstacy means overpowering emotion characterized by loss of self-control and sometimes a of temporary loss consciousness and in that state one can lose his control and also go into a state of shock called psychogenic shock and become unconsciousness. Now in the event told in the Hadees it is clear that one person asks Hazrat Abu Huraira about a Hadees. Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a before telling the Hadees fell unconscious three times because of the intensity of his emotions that he had because of two reasons:

1) This was one of the Hadees that he had heard from the Last Messenger peace be upon him. The person asking specifically asked him this question and why not anyone would feel intensely joyous or emotional by telling any Hadees that one learned directly from him.

Obviously you are ignoring Imam Ghazali whom I quoted. You are mixing with what I told on purpose. That incident of Hazrat Abu Huraira r.a. was just of wajad.

Read what Imam Ghazali said.

Cheeko, Do not fool around answer my question:

Hadrat Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) going into wajd/swoon 3 timesTranslation:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious. He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated....

Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. .......

Do not quote irrelevant Hadeeth to justify SHIRKIA and Bidatti actions. How can you justify the Wajad in Shirkia Qawali and dhamal. Where in the above Hadith it is mention that Nauzoblillah Abu huraira (???? ???? ???) went into Wajad after listening to Shirkia Qawali and Dhamal? He might have become unconscious due to old age or weakness.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away. I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajdan" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

I have already replied. Read again.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees which is your interpretation of him not going into the state of ecstacy. It is a difference of opinion between me and you but certainly my intention is not to misguide anyone. What about the other Hadees. What about the views of all the other Ulema whom I quoted regarding raqs and wajad.

Fine for a second I say what you say regarding that Hadees. What about the other Hadees. What about all the Ulema that I quoted consider about raqs and wajad and their derivation is from the Hadees.

No! you still did not answer my question and trying to run away and still busy with your old tactics, lengthy copy and paste to divert. I want an answer from you why you quoted an hadith which does not prove you so-called "wajdan" in sufi cult. Instead of giving me an answer you start talking about Ayat. We can talk later about the Ayat. You just answer my question.

I know you are only capable of copy and paste only. Everybody on this forum can understand what are your own words and which is copy paste because the language you type shows the your calibre and your qualification. You presented an Hadeeth to justify the so called "wajad" in Sufism. But if you read the Hadith, no where in it make anybody conclude that the Abu Huraira (RA) went 3 times into unconsciousness due to your so called "Wajad" in Sufism. All he (RA) was doing trying to narrate an hadith. That's all! I do not want to know what your Imam Ghazali says. The saying of Imam Ghazali is zero in front of Quraan and Authentic Hadeeth.

You quoted an Hadith to justify your so called "wajad" in Sufi cult. You Sufis have made the religion Islam a joke, you just cant fit any Hadeeth to justify your cult.

Now, answer me and do not fool around. I need answer in you own language, no lengthy copy and paste. You will be answerable to Allah to misguide people by quoting irrelevant Hadith to justify your cult.

You are still not answering my question and trying to run away.

Could you answermy following questions:

1. "What is the relevancy of your quoted Hadeeth to support your argument to justify the concept of "wajad" in your sufi cult". Now, do not talk about singing as we will debate later. So that you may not try mix two issue and try to seek a hide out.

2. The concept of "wajad" is the basis of your sufi cult. Why could not you find any authentic Hadith in Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari to justify your major believe of sufu cult? Why you have to rely on a Hadith which is not even from Sahih Satta.

3. Even your quoted Hadith does not support the concept of "wajad" in sufi cult. Can you show me any video where your peer (dead or alive) entered into the stage of "wajad" while narating a hadith?

3. Are you trying to say that it was only Abu Huraira (RA) was the narrator of hadth who went into "wajad" while narrating a hadith and that no other Sahaba (RA) reached to that excellent to attain the stage of "wajad". If there were other sahaba (RA). Could you please provide any hadith from sahih satta where any other Sahaba (RA) had attain the stage of "wajad" while narrating a hadith.

4. According to your hadeeth " narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he." Why prophet Muhammad pbuh chose to talk to Abu haraira (RA) about this very important matter secretly.

5. Why are you hiding the fact that this hadith is classifed "hasan ghareeb" by imam tirmidhi (“Hasan Ghareeb” is weaker than the one about which he says “Hasan”).

6. Why you quoted half version of your “Hasan Ghareeb” Hadith: The full version is as follows:

Shufayya Asbahi narrated: I entered Madinah and came upon a man around whom
people had gathered. I asked, “Who is he?” They said, “Abu Hurayrah (R.A)“ So, I went near him till I sat down opposite him while he was narrating hadith to the people. When he paused and was alone I said to him, “I ask you by Truth, by Allah, narrate to me a hadith that you may have heard from Allah’s Messenger (SAW), understood it and remembered it.” He said, “ I will do that, narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me and I understood it and I remember it” Then he shrieked and fell unconscious and revived after a while and repeated, “Surely, I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me in this house, there being no one else with us, only I and he.” Then, Abu Hurayrah shrieked loudly and fell unconscious.
He recovered shortly, wired his face and said, “I will do it. Surely I will narrate to you a hadith that Allah’s Messenger narrated to me I and he were in this house, there being no one else with us, besides me and him.” Then he shrieked loudly and fell unconscious and, as he was falling done on his face, I supported him for a long time. Then he regained consciousness and said, “Allah’s Messenger (SAW) narrated to me that on the Day of Resurrection, Allah the Exalted, will come down to the worshippers to judge between them and all the ummahs will kneel down. The first of those who are summoned will be a man who had memorised the Qur’an, a man who was slain in Allah’s path and a man who had much wealth Allah will say to the reciter of the Quran, ‘Did I not teach you what I had revealed to My Messenger?’ He would answer, ‘Certainly, O my Lord! He would ask, ‘So what did you do with what you had learnt?’. He would say, ‘I stood up with it in the night and during day in prayer Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will say to him, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say to him, ‘Rather, you hoped to be cited as a reciter and that has been done’. The man of wealth will be presented next and Allah will say ‘Did I not give you plenty so that you may not depend on anyone?’. He would confirm, ‘Certainly, O my Lord!’ He will ask, ‘Then what did you do with that which I gave you?’ He would answer, ‘I joined ties of relationship and gave sadaqah’. Allah will say to him, ‘You lie,’ and the angels will also say, ‘You have lied’. Allah will say, ‘Rather, you loved to be referred to as a philanthropist and that was done’. Then the one who was slain in Allah’s path will be presented and Allah will ask, ‘Why were you killed?’ He will say, ‘you commanded (us) to wage jihad in Your path, so I fought till I was killed’. Allah will say to him ‘You lie,’ and the angels will affirm, ‘You have lied’. And, Allah will say, ‘Rather, you hoped to be called brave and that was done’. After that, Allah’s Messenger patted me on my knee and said, ‘O Abu Hurayrah! They are the first three of Allah’s creatures with whom the fire will be kindled on the Day of Resurrection’.

Cheeko Brother, we are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin and for this sin their is no "Shafaaat" from anybody or forgive by Allah. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quraan and Sunnah directly not filtered through Peer-o-Murshid.

 

[Cheeko]

I have replied and I can make out that you will be evading and running just like your avatar. I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees? I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones? This question is relevant to my future discussion and your answer will only take this discussion further. The answer to your questions will be delivered after you answer my simple question.

For future references and records the only groups that oppose Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaat for these views especially in Pakistan are of three types:

1) Najdi followers and najdi influenced
2) Modernists like Quranists and Khaleed Zaheerians and Javed Ahmed Ghamidians
3) Followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed called marzais

 

[Pakistani1947]

Cheeko, Do not use Abu Huraira r.a. Hadith to justify "wajad" of your sufi cult

I have replied and I can make out that you will be evading and running just like your avatar. I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees? I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones? This question is relevant to my future discussion and your answer will only take this discussion further. The answer to your questions will be delivered after you answer my simple question.
[/SIZE]

Dear Cheeko,

First of all :alhamd: I do not belong to any of three categories you mentioned above. I am Muslim and simply follower of Quraan and Sunnah.

I hope that this is not your tactics to get away from the topic. Anyway, regarding your question about Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, without disputes majority of Muslim agrees that these two books are most authentic books of hadiths. For your information:

The Six Authentic Hadeeth Books (Sihah Sitta) are as follows:

- Sahih al-Bukhari
- Sahih Muslim
- Sunan an-Nasa'i al-Sughra
- Sunan Abu Dawood
- Sunan al-Tirmidhi
- Sunan ibn Majah

A hadith is a saying of Muhammad or a report about something he did. Over time, during the first few centuries of Islam, it became obvious that many so-called hadith were in fact spurious sayings that had been fabricated for various motives, at best to encourage believers to act righteously and at worse to corrupt believers' understanding of Islam and to lead them astray. Since Islamic legal scholars were utilizing hadith as an adjunct to the Qur'an in their development of the Islamic legal system, it became critically important to have reliable collections of hadith. While the early collections of hadith often contained hadith that were of questionable origin, gradually collections of authenticated hadith called sahih (lit. true, correct) were compiled. Such collections were made possible by the development of the science of hadith criticism, a science at the basis of which was a critical analysis of the chain of (oral) transmission (isnad) of the hadith going all the way back to Muhammad.

The two most highly respected collections of hadith are the authenticated collections the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. (Sahih literally means "correct, true, valid, or sound.")

In addition to these, four other collections came to be well-respected, although not to the degree of Bukhari and Muslim's sahih collections. These four other collections are the Sunan of Tirmidhi, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, and Abu Da'ud. Together these four and the two sahih collections are called the "six books" (al-kutub al-sitta).

Why am I asking an authetic Hadith from Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari? The reason is that the concept of "wajad" is central or integral part of sufi cult. If you remove this concept all structure of this cult would be on the floor. So for such an "important" concept there has to be a at least one authentic Hadith in any of the two book, Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Cheeko Brother, we are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin and for this sin their is no "Shafaaat" from anybody or forgive by Allah. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your Peer, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quraan and Sunnah directly not filtered through Peer-o-Murshid.

 

[Cheeko]

You are not answering me. Stop beating around the bush and answer me now.

I have a simple question for you. How do you know that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the two most authentic books of Hadees? I am not doubting their authenticity but want to know that how on earth did you come to know that these two books of Hadees are the most authenticated ones? This question is relevant to my future discussion and your answer will only take this discussion further. The answer to your questions will be delivered after you answer my simple question.

We are not playing who wants to be millionaire. We are talking about religion and within religion we are talking about SHIRK which is worst of all sin. Everybody is answerable Allah alone for his/ her deeds. Do not worry about your religious teacher, he will never be their to save you. If you accept that you have lost this debate you will Insha-Allah be winner in the hereafter. There is no right way accept the path of Quran and Sunnah directly not filtered through your religous teacher.

 

[babadeena]

Why am I asking an authetic Hadith from Sahih Muslim or Sahih Bukhari? The reason is that the concept of "wajad" is central or integral part of sufi cult. If you remove this concept all structure of this cult would be on the floor. So for such an "important" concept there has to be a at least one authentic Hadith in any of the two book, Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Brother, now you have put a tight noose aground him. Do you expect any reply? Will be unfair not
to acknowledge your patience and Zeal to convince him. But as in guidance from Quran, when
people already did or said something, it is very difficult to convince them otherwise. He has no proof from Quranat all about this "Wajid" or "Sufiism", and now he will not have either from those two sources.