انگریز نے جب 1849ء میں پنجاب پر قبضہ کر لیا

[Wake up Pak]

And that is why no one really takes this choudary and his delusional quest seriously. The link contradicts his conspiracy theory. On the contrary it goes on to say he is the one who made great strides in furthering education in Punjab by opening universities, schools, libraries and print media.

Also confirming what I had said all along that Urdu was imposed on the majority non urdu population by the colonialists. It was declared the official language in 1837 of the East India Company.

For arguments sake lets accept that education was 100% "تعلیم سو فیصد تھی " whatever that even means. Do you think they were studying or studying in Urdu in Punjab in those times?

Any education happening in united India/provinces before setting up of the formal schools and universities by the colonials that we know today was happening in Sanskrit, Persian and Arabic. Urdu was no where to be seen in the broader educational sphere before the colonials

Oh dear, who are you trying to convince? No matter what facts & figures you post, the Charlatan doctor will not accept or comprehend it.
If you want him to understand anything, you must praise Urdu & only Urdu, otherwise, you are inferior & enemy of Urdu.

 

[atensari]

اسی طرح کی ایک اور کہانی مشہور ہے. جس میں انگلستان کے ایک دور دراز علاقے میں قائم ایک عمارت میں عیسائی اور یہودی نوجوانوں کو اس غرض سے اسلامی علوم کی تعلیم دی جاتی تھی کے یہ مختلف مسلم ممالک میں جا کر مسلمانوں کو گمراہ کریں گے

یہ نوجوان کہاں گئے آج تک معلوم نہیں ہو سکا​

 

[Citizen X]

Oh dear, who are you trying to convince? No matter what facts & figures you post, the Charlatan doctor will not accept or comprehend it.
If you want him to understand anything, you must praise Urdu & only Urdu, otherwise, you are inferior & enemy of Urdu.

Please do not use the word Doctor because it is an English word, even if you write in Urdu. Thats why I refer to him as chootiya choudary and not Doctor.

The hypocrisy is far and wide with this one, his own education and credentials in English, the title he chooses to use is also English. Refuses to learn or acknowledge Farsi because his own idol Iqbal put out more works in Farsi then he did in Urdu, and if he really revered and idolized Iqbal he would surely want to read his entire body of work.

in a nut shell chootiya chaudry is . Na dhood na dahi, nirri yai yai

 

[Wake up Pak]

I refer to him as chootiya choudary

 

[NasNY]

And that is why no one really takes this choudary and his delusional quest seriously. The link contradicts his conspiracy theory. On the contrary it goes on to say he is the one who made great strides in furthering education in Punjab by opening universities, schools, libraries and print media.

Also confirming what I had said all along that Urdu was imposed on the majority non urdu population by the colonialists. It was declared the official language in 1837 of the East India Company.

For arguments sake lets accept that education was 100% "تعلیم سو فیصد تھی " whatever that even means. Do you think they were studying or studying in Urdu in Punjab in those times?

Any education happening in united India/provinces before setting up of the formal schools and universities by the colonials that we know today was happening in Sanskrit, Persian and Arabic. Urdu was no where to be seen in the broader educational sphere before the colonials

History is always written with the point of view of the writer, Who knows what is real, a saint can be made a villain, and a villain can be made a saint.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

Yaar chornay ki bi haad hoti hai, main janta ho kay ag kaal laambi lammbi chornay ka mossam hai, app tu lambar 1 say bi lambi choor di.

If we were that educated, at least there have been some big universities. there should have been some sort of industrial revolution.

 

[Citizen X]

History is always written with the point of view of the writer, Who knows what is real, a saint can be made a villain, and a villain can be made a saint.

It's good to asks question, but unless a believable argument preferably with something to back it up is made or comes up, we can only rely on what we have and how credible those sources are.

 

[Wake up Pak]

History is always written with the point of view of the writer, Who knows what is real, a saint can be made a villain, and a villain can be made a saint.

It's good to asks question, but unless a believable argument preferably with something to back it up is made or comes up, we can only rely on what we have and how credible those sources are.

NasNY, When we say the same thing about the Ahadith, you guys become furious and start issuing religious edicts.

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

برا مت ماننا، ہم سب کی اپنی اپنی رائے ہوسکتی جو ایک دوسرے سے محتلف ہو، لیکن اگر آپ نے کو چیز غلط پڑ کی ہے تو کوئی بات نہیں، غلطی پر بندے سے ہوتی ہے،
آپ خود سوچو اگر پنجاب میں 100فیصد لوگ پڑھے لکھے ہوتے تو انگریز ہم پر 100 سال حکومت نہ کرتے۔۔ ہمارے پاس کوئی ایک دو بڑے تعلیمی ادارے تو ہوتےنہ۔
ہوسکتا ہے کے میں غلط ہو ۔میرا نہیں۔ خیال کے ان۔کے دور میں بھی کوئی ملک یہ کہ سکتا ہے کے اس ملک میں 100 فیصد لوگ پڑھےلکھے ہے۔​

 

[Noworriesbehappy]

According to Wikipedia, North Korea has a 100% literacy rate. 3
I don't know what the "word" literacy means on Wikipedia, In north Korea, (unfortunately, the way, they have been isolated from the rest of the world, their IQ is not high, and they believe that their leader does not need to shit, because of his superhuman powers,

If anybody calls them literate, he needs to get his head examined.

List of countries by literacy rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Citizen X]

NasNY, When we say the same thing about the Ahadith, you guys become furious and start issuing religious edicts.

lol.... I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to go off topic.

 

[FahadBhatti]

Oh God.

Kahani shareef.

 

[NasNY]

NasNY, When we say the same thing about the Ahadith, you guys become furious and start issuing religious edicts.

We are all Muslims, if we cant agree on hadith, let it go. there is no reason to argue and argue back and forth it only creates divisiveness among Muslims. ( which some people enjoy)

Everyone believes in the Quran, everyone reads the Quran, not as many people understand it because they don't understand Arabic. So they read tafsir and translation which leads to interpretations.

Hadith were also recoded in Arabic and are open to interpretation, from the Observer who provided it, had a different point of view or understanding, the person who wrote it down may understood it differently, to the parson who translated it and the person who reads it.

So i agree with you that hadith should be challenged on per Hadith basis but you cant throw out the complete collection that provide a small glimpse in the Life of the Prophet Muhammed PBUH ( which some people want Muslims to forget)

In a truncated conclusion, its ok if you don't believe in the Hadith, as long as you stand 5 times a day to say thank you to Allah as shown by the prophet Muhammed PBUH which is recorded in The Hadith.
you can ignore rest of the Hadith if you want, but don't force others to do the same.

Peace Brother.

 

[Citizen X]

its ok if you don't believe in the Hadith, as long as you stand 5 times a day to say thank you to Allah as shown by the prophet Muhammed PBUH which is recorded in The Hadith.
you can ignore rest of the Hadith if you want,

?????? Its ok not to believe in the hadith as long you believe in the hadith!!! Sounds very contradictory.

And also I hate to say it there is no hadith that records Prophet "standing 5 times a day to say thank you" or showing how he did it.

So that just makes the situation even more complicated, trying to believe in a hadith that doesn't even exist.

I can unravel your entire post sentence by sentence but I thought I stick to the most relevant part here.

 

[NasNY]

?????? Its ok not to believe in the hadith as long you believe in the hadith!!! Sounds very contradictory.

And also I hate to say it there is no hadith that records Prophet "standing 5 times a day to say thank you" or showing how he did it.

So that just makes the situation even more complicated, trying to believe in a hadith that doesn't even exist.

I can unravel your entire post sentence by sentence but I thought I stick to the most relevant part here.

you believe in what you believe, ill believe in what i believe,
either we will be neighbors or in opposite neighborhoods.

 

[Citizen X]

you believe in what you believe, ill believe in what i believe,
either we will be neighbors or in opposite neighborhoods.

I was just pointing out the huge contradiction in your statement

But also the question is, do you believe in what you believe in just because you were told to believe in it and found your forefathers and your holy men believing in it.

Or do you believe in it, because you looked at it, read it, understood and studied it, made certain of its authenticity and came to the undeniable conclusion that yes this is true and this is what Allah wants me to follow and believe in.

 

[NasNY]

The first and second.

A question
Do you do Namaz (Salah)
How many rakat do you do Fajar , zuhar, Asr, Magrib, isha
How do you do it
and which Surah(s) in the Quran it is mentioned.

 

[NasNY]

I was just pointing out the huge contradiction in your statement

But also the question is, do you believe in what you believe in just because you were told to believe in it and found your forefathers and your holy men believing in it.

Or do you believe in it, because you looked at it, read it, understood and studied it, made certain of its authenticity and came to the undeniable conclusion that yes this is true and this is what Allah wants me to follow and believe in.

The first and second.

A question
Do you do Namaz (Salah)
How many rakat do you do Fajar , zuhar, Asr, Magrib, isha
How do you do it
and which Surah(s) in the Quran it is mentioned.

 

[Citizen X]

The first and second.

A question
Do you do Namaz (Salah)
How many rakat do you do Fajar , zuhar, Asr, Magrib, isha
How do you do it
and which Surah(s) in the Quran it is mentioned.

I was expecting better from you, since this the most lame and most asked question by people who defend hadith, thinking they will get a upper hand and AHA! So you do! So now tell me where in the Quran it says to pray 5 times, how many rakahs, which surahs etc etc, SEEEEE you DO NEED Hadith.

Well let me tell you. No I don't ascribe to the notion of the traditional 5 time prayer ritual, so no I don't perform your daily 5 time ritual prayer. Because there is no mention of it the Quran.

The Salah mentioned in the Quran is not your 5 times daily prayer.

FYI : Just a few years ago maybe 3 I used to believe in it and used to perform it regularly and even on my worst day got 2 to 3 prayers in. I'm in my late 40s so the bigger chunk of my life was spent being a traditional Muslim

 

[Bilal J]

WaddaFudd… stop making shit up… Punjab was uncivilized from day one… British did try, but decided wasn’t worth it

Kon civilized hai is dunia mein?