انگریز نے جب 1849ء میں پنجاب پر قبضہ کر لیا

[ڈاکٹر زبیر چودھری]

معلوم نہیں اس کہانی میں کتنا سچ ہے. ایک بات سچ ہے کے مقامی وائسرائے اسی حکمت عملی پر عمل پیرا ہیں​

حقیقت یہ ہی ہے کہ ہم آزادی کے بعد بھی غلام ہی ہیں ، نظام ان کا، لباس ان کا، زبان ان کی ، طور طریقے ان کے ، باقی کیا بچا ہے ، غریب تو مسجد میں جاتا ہے ، اس نظام کے پیروکاروں کو اس کی بھی پرواہ نہیں​

 

[Citizen X]

تو تم کیا کہہ رہے ہو کہ قرآن میں کہیں بھی نماز کا حکم نہیں ہے یہ میں بحث کے لئے نہیں معلومات کے لئے پوچھ رہا ہوں

Yes you are correct. Being pedantic here, but the word namaz doesn't appear in the Quran. Namaz is actually a Persian word, which means to pay respect to someone or something.

The word you are looking for is salah, and no it doesn't mean your daily 5 ritual prayers or as you like to call it namaz.

 

[taban]

Yes you are correct. Being pedantic here, but the word namaz doesn't appear in the Quran. Namaz is actually a Persian word, which means to pay respect to someone or something.

The word you are looking for is salah, and no it doesn't mean your daily 5 ritual prayers or as you like to call it namaz.

I am wondering how you can be so sure that you think that only you know that Namaz is a Persian word and that no one else knew it. By the way, I am assuming that you speak, read, and write Arabic fluently, and that you have read the Quran in Arabic without any translations. Maybe that is why you understand it so well.

 

[Citizen X]

I am wondering how you can be so sure that you think that only you know that Namaz is a Persian word

I said I was being pedantic. No need to get your feathers all ruffled up. And I never said or even remotely implied that I was the only one, so don't make false statements and put words in my mouth.

By the way, I am assuming that you speak, read, and write Arabic fluently, and that you have read the Quran in Arabic without any translations.

After having lived in the middle east for 40 plus years I am somewhat fluent in Arabic, but not Quranic Arabic also know as classical Arabic, but I get the jist of it without having to resort to translations etc most of the times, not even native Arabic speakers are. And you really don't need to be in this day and age, with the many translations and Arabic lexicons available.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I said I was being pedantic. No need to get your feathers all ruffled up. And I never said or even remotely implied that I was the only one, so don't make false statements and put words in my mouth.

After having lived in the middle east for 40 plus years I am somewhat fluent in Arabic, but not Quranic Arabic also know as classical Arabic, but I get the jist of it without having to resort to translations etc most of the times, not even native Arabic speakers are. And you really don't need to be in this day and age, with the many translations and Arabic lexicons available.

I am wondering how you can be so sure that you think that only you know that Namaz is a Persian word and that no one else knew it. By the way, I am assuming that you speak, read, and write Arabic fluently, and that you have read the Quran in Arabic without any translations. Maybe that is why you understand it so well.

For argument's sake, even if we assume that Salat = Namaz, can anyone give the details of Namaz from the Quran? You can't even find minuscule details like starting with Takbeer & finishing the Namaz with'Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

 

[Citizen X]

For argument's sake, even if we assume that Salat = Namaz, can anyone give the details of Namaz from the Quran? You can't even find minuscule details like starting with Takbeer & finishing the Namaz with'Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Thats what I said.

Quran says about it self, it is a detailed book in clear language so it is made easy to understand. So it defies logic that Allah forgot to give details about something so important or if we are to believe your holy men and hadith, THE MOST IMPORTANT religious practice, so important that it is alleged that is the first thing you will be questioned about on the day of reckoning.

Yet Allah does not even mention on many times in a day this super important ritual suppose to take place. Even if we stretch it your holy men can only find mention of 3 times of the day.

How is this possible even ........... ???

 

[taban]

Thats what I said.

For argument's sake, even if we assume that Salat = Namaz, can anyone give the details of Namaz from the Quran? You can't even find minuscule details like starting with Takbeer & finishing the Namaz with'Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

تو اب کیا کریں نماز پڑھیں یا نہ پڑھیں اب مسئلہ یہ ہے کہ جن لوگوں کے توسط سے قرآن تم تک پہنچا ہے ان ہی میں سے بہت سے لوگوں نے حدیث کی کتابیں بھی ہم تک پہنچائی ہیں اب اسکا علاج کیا ہے یہ بتاؤ تمہیں تو پتہ ہے کہ ہمارا علم تمہارے لیول کا نہیں ہے تو بس اب بحث بند کرو اور حل بتاؤ

 

[taban]

Thats what I said.

تم نے اسکا جواب نہیں دیا کہ تم قرآن عربی میں پڑھتے ہو یا ترجمعے کے ساتھ

 

[Citizen X]

تو اب کیا کریں نماز پڑھیں یا نہ پڑھیں اب مسئلہ یہ ہے کہ جن لوگوں کے توسط سے قرآن تم تک پہنچا ہے ان ہی میں سے بہت سے لوگوں نے حدیث کی کتابیں بھی ہم تک پہنچائی ہیں اب اسکا علاج کیا ہے یہ بتاؤ تمہیں تو پتہ ہے کہ ہمارا علم تمہارے لیول کا نہیں ہے تو بس اب بحث بند کرو اور حل بتاؤ

Quran reached us as it was brought down by Allah and reached us through his prophet and messenger. Allah did not send down hadith, nor did he authorize it and neither did the prophet. Hadith was "complied" centuries later by defeated Persians who had no authority what so ever.

As to your problem, the answer is simple. follow Allah's commands as he has prescribed in his one and only preserved that still exists with us and not books written by Imam fulana and Imam dhimkhana centuries later. If something is not the Quran then its not part of Allah's deen.

There really is no problem once you accept that their is only one true source of guidance and that is the Quran. It really is that simple.

 

[Citizen X]

تم نے اسکا جواب نہیں دیا کہ تم قرآن عربی میں پڑھتے ہو یا ترجمعے کے ساتھ

Like everyone else including you, in Arabic. Because that was the language it was revealed in.

 

[Wake up Pak]

تو اب کیا کریں نماز پڑھیں یا نہ پڑھیں اب مسئلہ یہ ہے کہ جن لوگوں کے توسط سے قرآن تم تک پہنچا ہے ان ہی میں سے بہت سے لوگوں نے حدیث کی کتابیں بھی ہم تک پہنچائی ہیں اب اسکا علاج کیا ہے یہ بتاؤ تمہیں تو پتہ ہے کہ ہمارا علم تمہارے لیول کا نہیں ہے تو بس اب بحث بند کرو اور حل بتاؤ

It is absolutely up to you, brother, whether or not you desire to perform Namaz. The Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammad by Allah Almighty without any contradictions, whereas Ahadith were written some 200+ years after Prophet Mohammad's death, and these ahadith are full of contradictions, fairytales, and some of them outright mock, insult, and humiliate the prophet Mohammad.

 

[Citizen X]

It is absolutely up to you, brother, whether or not you desire to do Namaz. The Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammad by Allah Almighty without any contradictions, whereas Ahadith were written some 200+ years after Prophet Mohammad's death, and these ahadith are full of contradictions, fairytales, and some of them outright mock, insult, and humiliate the prophet Mohammad.

With a warning of course, because the Quran says numerous times do not invoke anyone but me. But as we know, traditional salah/namaz you are invoking not only Muhammad and Ibrahim but their entire families. And in the true definition of the word that makes you a mushrik. Even when you enter the mosques, you see Allah and right next to it Muhammad. Basically putting Allah and Muhammad as equals ( astaghifullah )and then bowing down all day long in front of the name of Muhammad.

So if you must perform your namaz, at the very least take out all the bits that make you end up being a mushrik.

Honestly Muslims have gone down the same path as Christians have. They don't have the actual Bible but the have the hadith of John, Matthew, Luke and Mark and follow that. And turned Jesus into a god, even men when bible continiously calls towards one God.

Muslims today just don't say it because its strictly prohibited but they have done the next best thing. No wonder in the early centuries when westerners came across Muslims, the called them Mohammadans because the religion revolves around Muhammad, rather than Allah and the Quran.

 

[Wake up Pak]

With a warning of course, because the Quran says numerous times do not invoke anyone but me. But as we know, traditional salah/namaz you are invoking not only Muhammad and Ibrahim but their entire families. And in the true definition of the word that makes you a mushrik. Even when you enter the mosques, you see Allah and right next to it Muhammad. Basically putting Allah and Muhammad as equals ( astaghifullah )and then bowing down all day long in front of the name of Muhammad.

So if you must perform your namaz, at the very least take out all the bits that make you end up being a mushrik.

Honestly Muslims have gone down the same path as Christians have. They don't have the actual Bible but the have the hadith of John, Matthew, Luke and Mark and follow that. And turned Jesus into a god, even men when bible continiously calls towards one God.

Muslims today just don't say it because its strictly prohibited but they have done the next best thing. No wonder in the early centuries when westerners came across Muslims, the called them Mohammadans because the religion revolves around Muhammad, rather than Allah and the Quran.

Darood Ibrahim: O Allah, bestow Your favor on Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as You have bestowed Your favor on Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim, You are Praiseworthy, Most Glorious.
This Darood Ibrahim is an insult to Allah in that it practically orders Him to shower his blessings on Prophet Mohammad and his family.
There is no mention in any hadith of reciting the Darood during Namaz. Additionally, it is unclear whether Prophet Mohammad recited it to bestow blessings upon himself.
This Darood was introduced by the Majosi Twelvers, who worship the Prophet's family, as you may be aware.
72:18 The places of worship are for God. So do not call, besides God, upon anyone else

 

[Citizen X]

Darood Ibrahim: O Allah, bestow Your favor on Muhammad and the family of Muhammad as You have bestowed Your favor on Ibrahim and the family of Ibrahim, You are Praiseworthy, Most Glorious.
This Darood Ibrahim is an insult to Allah in that it practically orders Him to shower his blessings on Prophet Mohammad and his family.
There is no mention in any hadith of reciting the Darood during Namaz. Additionally, it is unclear whether Prophet Mohammad recited it to bestow blessings upon himself.
This Darood was introduced by the Majosi Twelvers, who worship the Prophet's family, as you may be aware.
72:18 The places of worship are for God. So do not call, besides God, upon anyone else

The opening chapter of Quran states.
إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ

Lekin logon ko aab koun samjaye!

 

[Wake up Pak]

The opening chapter of Quran states.
إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ

Lekin logon ko aab koun samjaye!

“Verily We have revealed the book to you in truth for instructing mankind. He that receives guidance benefits his own soul, but he that strays injures his own soul”. (39:41).

 

[taban]

It is absolutely up to you, brother, whether or not you desire to perform Namaz. The Quran was revealed to Prophet Mohammad by Allah Almighty without any contradictions, whereas Ahadith were written some 200+ years after Prophet Mohammad's death, and these ahadith are full of contradictions, fairytales, and some of them outright mock, insult, and humiliate the prophet Mohammad.

یہ کیا بات ہوئی تم اور سٹیزن ایکس سالوں سے نماز کی مخالفت کر رہے ہو اور جب تم سے گائیڈنیس مانگی ہے تو آگے سے کہہ دیا کہ اٹس اپ ٹو یو بات کچھ بنی نہیں اور جب تم حدیث کو مانتے نہیں ہو تو پھر تمہارے خیال میں یا تمہاری تحقیق کے مطابق حضرت عمر کی موت کیسے ہوئی تھی اس کی بھی وضاحت چاہئیے

 

[Wake up Pak]

The opening chapter of Quran states.
إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ

Lekin logon ko aab koun samjaye!

Partial verse 2:185 The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong).

 

[taban]

Like everyone else including you, in Arabic. Because that was the language it was revealed in.

میں پڑھتا تو عربی میں ہوں لیکن عربی مجھے سمجھ نہیں آتی اس کے لئے تراجم کا سہارا لینا پڑتا ہے ہم کم علموں کی یہ بھی بد نصیبی ہے امید ہے تو عربی میں ماہر ہوگا

 

[Wake up Pak]

یہ کیا بات ہوئی تم اور سٹیزن ایکس سالوں سے نماز کی مخالفت کر رہے ہو اور جب تم سے گائیڈنیس مانگی ہے تو آگے سے کہہ دیا کہ اٹس اپ ٹو یو بات کچھ بنی نہیں اور جب تم حدیث کو مانتے نہیں ہو تو پھر تمہارے خیال میں یا تمہاری تحقیق کے مطابق حضرت عمر کی موت کیسے ہوئی تھی اس کی بھی وضاحت چاہئیے

Namaz key mukhalfat tou ab bhi kar raha hoon laykin kabhi kisi ko issay roka tou nahi. Jiskey marzi hay parhay ya na parhay. Kiya kabhi Isra O Miraj key hadith parhi hay jab Nabi ko Namaz ka thufa diya gaya tha?
Hadith kay baray may upar toum ko jawab daay chuka hoon.
Hazrat Umar key mout ka Deen Islam say kiya layna dayna?

 

[taban]

Namaz key mukhalfat tou ab bhi kar raha hoon laykin kabhi kisi ko issay roka tou nahi. Jiskey marzi hay parhay ya na parhay. Hadith kay baray may upar toum ko jawab daay chuka hoon.
Hazrat Umar key mout ka Deen Islam say kiya layna dayna?

حضرت عمر کی موت کا دین اسلام سے کچھ نہیں لینا بس ذرا اپنی معلومات کے لئے پوچھ رہا ہوں کی انکی موت کیسے اور کہاں ہوئی تھی اور کوئی بات نہیں ہے دیکھو نا اب تم لوگوں کی بات مان کر اپنی ساری عمر کی نماز پڑھنے کی عادت ایسے ہی تو نہیں چھوڑ سکتا نا کچھ نا کچھ تحقیق تو کرنی چاہئیے