Sharia punishments are the best to deter all sorts of crimes.

[Mulhid]

So at best, there are historical record discrepancies. Ancient history is full of it, hell even modern history is full of it. Hardly shocking and earth shattering.

Traditionally all historians accepted the Abbasid narrative which is normal. But in history if major contradictions arise, the history has to be rewritten. Thats whats happening with history of early Islam as well. It has to be rewritten and corrected in accordance with the evidence that is being found on ground.

And when this happens historians have to a complete investigation on all the accounts of Abbasids. When you find one lie, that taints the whole narrative and proves Abbasids to be liars so we cannot trust anything they say in their historical accounts.

 

[Citizen X]

If slavery was allowed then it should be allowed now as well.

Well its not allowed now and why should something that was highly disliked and discouraged be allowed anyways? It was tolerated only so it could be slowly phased out. You lot been bangin on about it as if the Quran says it one of the pillars of Islam.

Unless you are saying Quran contradicts itself.

No thats just all you bro,

 

[Mulhid]

Prophet Muhammad in his life time at the biggest gathering in the region declared that the religion is complete and when he died shortly after that any possibilities of anything new coming went with him.

That story comes from the Abbasids. Which we know are liars so we cannot take that as history.

 

[Citizen X]

Traditionally all historians accepted the Abbasid narrative which is normal. But in history if major contradictions arise, the history has to be rewritten. Thats whats happening with history of early Islam as well. It has to be rewritten and corrected in accordance with the evidence that is being found on ground.

And when this happens historians have to a complete investigation on all the accounts of Abbasids. When you find one lie, that taints the whole narrative and proves Abbasids to be liars so we cannot trust anything they say in their historical accounts.

Again doesn't make an iota of a difference to Islam what happens in or to history.

 

[Citizen X]

That story comes from the Abbasids. Which we know are liars so we cannot take that as history.

Well we have the Quran the word of god and it says there will be no prophet after Muhammad. So nothing changes.

 

[Mulhid]

You lot been bangin on about it as if the Quran says it one of the pillars of Islam.

On the one hand your faith makes you believe this book is written as a moral guidance for all times for all man kind.

On the other hand it allows something that is one of the most immoral things in history of mankind. And you have to contradict the Quran itself to make rationalizations contradicting Quran itself that it was only for that time and for those people.

You are forced to take a position in between two major contradictions and thats the definition of cognitive dissonance and no wonder why this point makes you uncomfortable.

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mulhid]

Well we have the Quran the word of god and it says there will be no prophet after Muhammad. So nothing changes.

Lol You are saying The Quran as if there is an original copy of the Quran which we can refer back to and confirm it never changed.

The oldest Quran just have Jewish and Christian verses in them like Surah Kahf and Surah Maryam and this raises even more question. Where are the other verses? Are they just missing or did Abbasid add more verses to them? Which version should we follow?

 

[Citizen X]

And we make a full loop and land back to square1, just as predicted

it allows something that is one of the most immoral things in history of mankind.

According to your current 21st century laws and morals. In fact Islam was the only religion in the world at the time that heavily discouraged it. Now I'm bored of going in circles with you on this thing. Like I said you lot keep bangin on about it as it was made compulsory to have slaves. This is the exact reason I didn't want to in the first place.

You really don't want to have a discussion you just want to prove yourself right and "win"

Also there is a big difference in tolerate and allow.

 

[Citizen X]

Lol You are saying The Quran as if there is an original copy of the Quran which we can refer back to and confirm it never changed.

The oldest Quran just have Jewish and Christian verses in them like Surah Kahf and Surah Maryam and this raises even more question. Where are the other verses? Are they just missing or did Abbasid add more verses to them? Which version should we follow?

Nothing but tired old lame orientalist and Islamophobe debunked baseless rhetoric. Like I said people have been trying to chip away Islam and the Quran from this angle for decades if not centuries now and nothing has come of it.

I personally have been debating people like you for what close to 15 years now. So been there done that. Nothing but conjecture and false twisted and biased studies at best to down right hate speech and outright lies.

 

[Mulhid]

Nothing but tired old lame orientalist and Islamophobe debunked baseless rhetoric.

This is not old, they are recent discoveries that no one is able to answer. You can throw in the towel too if you want, I dont blame you because even the top Islamic scholars are not able to answer this.

There is no original Uthman's Quran as Abbasids call it. If you think what I am saying is wrong then point me to a complete copy of Uthman's Quran?

 

[Citizen X]

This is not old, they are recent discoveries that no one is able to answer

Trying to discredit the Quran is as old as they come, if fact its just might be the oldest. If it is such a ground breaking discovery why isn't the anti muslim and anti Islam doofuses and media on it like flies on shit. Fuckin hell I aint even of it till now. Why are Muslims not leaving Islam by the millions on a daily basis.......... oh wait! Yeah exactly ?

 

[Mulhid]

Trying to discredit the Quran is as old as they come

They are not trying to discredit it. Just trying to study the history of it. If it hurts some of the beliefs you hold, thats collateral damage and not the intention.

But in my case I just update my personal belief about it as the evidence comes, instead of getting hurt that the evidence contradicts the personal beliefs that I hold.

 

[Citizen X]

They are not trying to discredit it. Just trying to study the history of it.

Yeah thats just the political correct way to say discredit nowadays.

But in my case I just update my personal belief about it as the evidence comes,

You keep bangin on about this evidence and yet you have not even shared a single of piece of it with us? Where is this so called evidence?

instead of getting hurt

Not hurt, bored, after every few months and years something like this comes up. It just gets tedious. What was the last one? Oh yeah Gibson's petra is mecca nonsense. How many of us now facing petra and praying. Exactly!

So so called new and damming evidence will also go the way of the dodo with in a few short months. As have the rest

 

[Mulhid]

Yeah thats just the political correct way to say discredit nowadays.

Not to shit on your conspiracy theories but there are Muslims working on this as well as Non-Muslims and if you know anything about academia its open source, anyone can come and review it.

 

[Mulhid]

Oh yeah Gibson's petra is mecca nonsense. How many of us now facing petra and praying. Exactly!

You can change the direction in which you are praying. But you cannot change the direction in which early mosques are facing.

So while you can change directions of prayers you cannot change the facts that all early mosques point at Petra. All this information is open source anyone can go search early mosques and verify where they are pointing.
Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Citizen X]

Not to shit on your conspiracy theories but there are Muslims working on this as well as Non-Muslims and if you know anything about academia its open source, anyone can come and review it.

For the Nth time what is exactly everybody working on??? How about instead of just talking about it, show us something for a change?

 

[Citizen X]

You can change the direction in which you are praying. But you cannot change the direction in which early mosques are facing.

So while you can change directions of prayers you cannot change the facts that all early mosques point at Petra. All this information is open source anyone can go search early mosques and verify where they are pointing.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Again been there done that, not going to entertain every guy who comes in thinking he's got the same smoking gun the last guy had when he was passing through after every couple of months. Like I said it gets tedious after a while.

 

[Mulhid]

Again been there done that, not going to entertain every guy who comes in thinking he's got the same smoking gun the last guy had when he was passing through after every couple of months. Like I said it gets tedious after a while.

I have never seen you answer to that and I’ve been watching this forum for over a decade. You can cop out if you want to because I have not even seen top Islamic scholars be able to answer this.

 

[rahail]

Its a backward law which allows slavery and rape of women. It also makes women second class citizens.

Oh really. Where is it written in Quran that slavery and rape is allowed? Which hadith refers to these beastly actions? Do not try to air your filthy words without proven arguments.

I don't care what ghamdi says. I care only for what Quran and Hadith says. There are many many people on this forum who can destroy your stance in minutes. They choose to remain silent because they are not very keen in arguing with illiterates like you.

Quran is here and Hadith is here. If you have chosen hell over paradise, its your choice.

 

[Mulhid]

Quran is here and Hadith is here.

Then why don’t you bother reading it?

You wouldn’t need to show your ignorance of the Quran by asking basic questions like sexual slavery. Everyone who has bothered reading Quran knows that it allows sex slaves and rape of sex slaves.